NEW - Tome Upgrades can now be found in random treasure

[Osharan_Tregarth]

That's nice news. But, like Teth said, nothing is true untile proven otherwise.

As far as we know, +5s don't exist. So the "+4 to +5 tome upgrade" might have the same fate.

True enough. But if the posted percentage rates here are correct, I might be joining some of my guildies in their EE farming for +4 tomes runs. (Yes, we know the drop rate is pretty miniscule. But what else is there for them to do these days?)

[Feather_of_Sun]

You imply that +4 tomes exist in loot tables, 27+. Thats incorrect as my extensive community built guide has proven.
+3s drop in lvl23+, +4s do not exist in lootgen. I've even had Kookie specifly tell me "I'm generating loot level30" - he made thousands and thousands of items. Plenty of +3s showed up in his piles, +4s did not.

So "when a +4 would drop" being that is currently 0%, that infers that +4 to +5s upgrade tomes also won't exist.

This is the Lamannia Preview Server forums.
Anything I state in this section of the forums pertains specifically to the version of the game on Lamannia.

Statements I make regarding Lamannia do not necessarily apply to the version of the game on the Live servers.

On Live, +4 tomes follow a previously established formula, and appear in level 31 treasure. When we were releasing Menace of the Underdark, I thought that we should make them more accessible than that, so I also implemented them as bonus treasure in Epic Elite quests.

With Update 16, I've revisited this, and received permission from my boss, Eladrin, to change the formula which determines what levels the tomes appear at in random treasure.

In Update 16, which is currently on Lamannia, +3 tomes appear in level 23-26 treasure, and +4 tomes appear in level 27+ treasure.

[Cetus]

This is the Lamannia Preview Server forums.
Anything I state in this section of the forums pertains specifically to the version of the game on Lamannia.

Statements I make regarding Lamannia do not necessarily apply to the version of the game on the Live servers.

On Live, +4 tomes follow a previously established formula, and appear in level 31 treasure. When we were releasing Menace of the Underdark, I thought that we should make them more accessible than that, so I also implemented them as bonus treasure in Epic Elite quests.

With Update 16, I've revisited this, and received permission from my boss, Eladrin, to change the formula which determines what levels the tomes appear at in random treasure.

In Update 16, which is currently on Lamannia, +3 tomes appear in level 23-26 treasure, and +4 tomes appear in level 27+ treasure.

So, if level 23+ treasure drops +3's, level 27's drop +4's, does that mean that level 31 chests will now have achance at +5?

That would require a chest blesser, a pirate map, a jewel, and a loot bonus - but it would still be possible right?

[LeoLionxxx]

Big question: Are the upgrade tomes bound or unbound? Becuase once you use one, finding another would be totally useless unless you can trade it; Or convert it to crafting ebberon DShards.

[Shade]

This is the Lamannia Preview Server forums.
Anything I state in this section of the forums pertains specifically to the version of the game on Lamannia.

Statements I make regarding Lamannia do not necessarily apply to the version of the game on the Live servers.

On Live, +4 tomes follow a previously established formula, and appear in level 31 treasure. When we were releasing Menace of the Underdark, I thought that we should make them more accessible than that, so I also implemented them as bonus treasure in Epic Elite quests.

With Update 16, I've revisited this, and received permission from my boss, Eladrin, to change the formula which determines what levels the tomes appear at in random treasure.

In Update 16, which is currently on Lamannia, +3 tomes appear in level 23-26 treasure, and +4 tomes appear in level 27+ treasure.

Thanks for the clarification. Wasn't clear what pertained to live or lamannia since you did mention "currently on live".

[HalfORCastrator]

This is the Lamannia Preview Server forums.
Anything I state in this section of the forums pertains specifically to the version of the game on Lamannia.

Statements I make regarding Lamannia do not necessarily apply to the version of the game on the Live servers.

On Live, +4 tomes follow a previously established formula, and appear in level 31 treasure. When we were releasing Menace of the Underdark, I thought that we should make them more accessible than that, so I also implemented them as bonus treasure in Epic Elite quests.

With Update 16, I've revisited this, and received permission from my boss, Eladrin, to change the formula which determines what levels the tomes appear at in random treasure.

In Update 16, which is currently on Lamannia, +3 tomes appear in level 23-26 treasure, and +4 tomes appear in level 27+ treasure.

With this formula change, do +4 tomes still drop as special loot in EEs?

[ThePrisoner]

You imply that +4 tomes exist in loot tables, 27+. Thats incorrect as my extensive community built guide has proven.
+3s drop in lvl23+, +4s do not exist in lootgen. I've even had Kookie specifly tell me "I'm generating loot level30" - he made thousands and thousands of items. Plenty of +3s showed up in his piles, +4s did not.

So "when a +4 would drop" being that is currently 0%, that infers that +4 to +5s upgrade tomes also won't exist.

I've pulled a +4 con tome out of the Deal and the Demon easy chest. EE, chest blesser, +2 loot gem. They exist in loot tables.

Also, in response to the "This is false until proven true," comments, you can just as easily say "This is true until proven false."

[redspecter23]

I've pulled a +4 con tome out of the Deal and the Demon easy chest. EE, chest blesser, +2 loot gem. They exist in loot tables.

Also, in response to the "This is false until proven true," comments, you can just as easily say "This is true until proven false."

As mentioned earlier in the thread, those +4 tomes that are specific to MotD EE quests aren't exactly random loot. They don't drop at a particular chest range. They are inserted as bonus loot in MotD EE chests regardless of chest level. You could pull it with no chest blesser and no loot gem just the same. You could even pull a +3 and a +4 in the same chest in theory because of how that specific situation is handled.

The new proposed loot system will have +4's (and +4 to +5 upgrades) truly drop on the standard loot tables for any chest level 27+ meaning you may or may not see the "special" +4 tomes in EE chests, but you can pull these new standard tomes in EE level 23 quests with a loot gem or during a +2 loot weekend in level 22 hard quests or whatever combination gets you to level 27 loot.

[Vargouille]

in response to the "This is false until proven true," comments, you can just as easily say "This is true until proven false."

This is true.

[Tid12]

This is true.

4 months of dozens of guilds doing EE CitW runs and noone pulled a +5 tome yet. And it's not the only thing. You guys said that Tome of Fate +2 could also drop in game. Another lie. Only +1s can be found in game.

There are your proofs that it wouldn't be the first time that you guys said something false.

Until I see someone pull one of those two things (before U16 ) in game, then you guys lied to us. Twice.

EDIT: I don't mean "lie" strictly. Just pointing out that stuff isn't dropping after many reports. Hope no offense taken

[JOTMON]

The chance of tomes dropping is actually getting a significant increase.
Currently on Live, every item generated in a chest has a 1 in 434 chance of being an ability score tome.
In Update 16, those odds are increased to 1 in 333.
The new Upgrade tomes will be a sizable percentage of all ability tome drops- for example, when a +4 tome would drop, it will instead have a 25% chance of being a +4 to +5 upgrade tome.

Same goes for +3 tomes (which will drop in treasure chests of level 23-26): 25% of them will be a +3 to +4 upgrade tome.

inquiring minds want to know.....

What is the profile of the Ability Tome going to be.

Will they be unbound or fall in the hated Bound to Character on acquire grouping.

Will they be generic pick any existing +4 to upgrade to +5 or will they be stat specific like a "Strength +5 upgrade, must have previously consumed a Strength +4 Tome to be of any use"

[Tid12]

inquiring minds want to know.....

What is the profile of the Ability Tome going to be.

Will they be unbound or fall in the hated Bound to Character on acquire grouping.

Will they be generic pick any existing +4 to upgrade to +5 or will they be stat specific like a "Strength +5 upgrade, must have previously consumed a Strength +4 Tome to be of any use"

Not sure if unbound or BtC/BtA but I can answer the other question:

Here you can see that there are specific tomes and not a general one. So I guess we will see stat specific tomes.

The store ones are BtA from that thread anyway.

[Havok.cry]

This is true.

Not when you are discussing the existence of a thing. It doesn't exist, until it actually exists. It can't exist before it exists. As none exist on live, it does not yet exist... not on live. To argue against that you would have to delve into theology.

[Shade]

I've pulled a +4 con tome out of the Deal and the Demon easy chest. EE, chest blesser, +2 loot gem. They exist in loot tables.

That's not from standard random loot tables, as explained clearly in the guide linked in the very post you quoted.

[My2Cents]

Pardon the noobish question, but how does one come across a level 31 chest?

If I were to assume that the majority of chests were the level of the quest (in general), then a typical quest in the level 25 raid (which I will likely not have much opportunity to find a group for at least right away anyway) on EE with a loot gem would be level 29, add the loot dragonmark and you get 30. How do you reach 31 except during a loot bonus weekend?

And is there any chance of hitting level 31 on any lower level quest like, say, 24?

[redspecter23]

Pardon the noobish question, but how does one come across a level 31 chest?

If I were to assume that the majority of chests were the level of the quest (in general), then a typical quest in the level 25 raid (which I will likely not have much opportunity to find a group for at least right away anyway) on EE with a loot gem would be level 29, add the loot dragonmark and you get 30. How do you reach 31 except during a loot bonus weekend?

And is there any chance of hitting level 31 on any lower level quest like, say, 24?

Level 23 quest
+2 for doing it on elite
+2 store loot gem
+1 chest blesser
+1 Three Barrel Cove map item bonus
+2 global loot event
= 31

You could drop the map bonus if you were in epic elite Caught in the Web or if there were a +3 global loot bonus which happened a short while back. The map bonus is not sustainable for farming purposes.

[ThePrisoner]

That's not from standard random loot tables, as explained clearly in the guide linked in the very post you quoted.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't find your "guides" worth reading.

[Standal]

The chance of tomes dropping is actually getting a significant increase.
Currently on Live, every item generated in a chest has a 1 in 434 chance of being an ability score tome.
In Update 16, those odds are increased to 1 in 333.
The new Upgrade tomes will be a sizable percentage of all ability tome drops- for example, when a +4 tome would drop, it will instead have a 25% chance of being a +4 to +5 upgrade tome.

Same goes for +3 tomes (which will drop in treasure chests of level 23-26): 25% of them will be a +3 to +4 upgrade tome.

Does this mean that 20th completion lists that currently drop +3 tomes will now have a chance of dropping +3 to +4 upgrade tomes?

[sirgog]

I've pulled a +4 con tome out of the Deal and the Demon easy chest. EE, chest blesser, +2 loot gem. They exist in loot tables.

Also, in response to the "This is false until proven true," comments, you can just as easily say "This is true until proven false."

Every EE chest with U14/15 named items has a chance to drop +4 tomes AFAICT.

The +4 tome is special loot, not random loot - evidenced by the fact that it does not replace your regular drops. (e.g. you get '+4 Str Tome' and '+7 Annihalating Bastard Sword of Greater Good', whereas if it was random loot you'd get just the tome without the random item).

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Every EE chest with U14/15 named items has a chance to drop +4 tomes AFAICT.

The +4 tome is special loot, not random loot - evidenced by the fact that it does not replace your regular drops. (e.g. you get '+4 Str Tome' and '+7 Annihalating Bastard Sword of Greater Good', whereas if it was random loot you'd get just the tome without the random item).

Also, on the lam dev track Feather of Sun made this exact statement.