Does taking lvls 24-25 gimp your 'gameplay'?

[danotmano1998]

There are good and bad options to both systems.

The best way to do it, IMO, is to:


1. Leave character level as it is. Heroic level + Epic level.

This will ensure even treatment of both people with destinies and without them.
No segregation. Your level is your level. Plus, this is the simpler, easier to understand format. Everyone can be level 25, instead of non-destinied folk being perma-stuck at 20.

2. Remove the XP penalty completely for levels 20-25.

This will once again even out the playing field, promote grouping, and open up a lot more options for enjoyable game play. Plus, now you have a reason TO TAKE the levels, not a reason NOT TO.

Can anyone think of a reason why this wouldn't work or come up with a better solution?

[psteen1]

MadFloyd stated etc etc...

Dude I am pretty sure we agree with each other so I don't know why you are arguing points that we agree on.

[samthedagger]

I think the best solution to this is to simply increase the base level of most epic quests by one. No change to xp, scaling or otherwise, kind of like they did with taming the flames a couple years back. Of course this is probably only a short-term problem. With any luck they will be adding more epic content in U15 that will not penalize for level 25 on elite difficulty.

In the short-term, either make your own LFMs for level 22-25 or just try to focus on epic elite and raids. Honestly there is little reason to take level 25 anyway. 10 up and +1 to saves and skills is not a big deal.

[MadFloyd]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

[Krell]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

Good news. Thanks for listening.

[Alundaar]

its a good step in the direction that will allow people of varing progress thru epic levels to work together without forcing anyone to limit themselfs or take a large xp loss. this way i can gain xp while grinding thru shroud/tod completions altho at a -75% for shroud hard and -50% for tod norm some is better than none.

thank you MFloyd

[danotmano1998]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

1. ?? I'm going to have to recheck this. Last I saw there was a -xp penalty when a lvl 25 joined the pug of level 21's and 22's.

2. I'm sorry.. could you elaborate? What does the "spread between max player level and quest CR" mean? Example?
EDIT.. SO if a max player level is 25, and the quest CR is 21.. The quest is recalculated at 23?

[nivarch]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

Good to know. Wasn't aware of this (I should since my level 21 sorc was in party with level 25 but didn't pay much attention)

Couple things:
2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

So if understand correctly:
- in a level 20 quest on normal, if everyone is below 22, we will get full XP ; if someone is 23 we'll get a 10% malus?
- in a level 21 quest on normal, if everyone is below 24, we will get full XP ; if someone is 25 we'll get a 10% malus?
- what will happen on a level 20 quest on hard? Does it become a 21 quest? Same for a 19 quest on elite?

Anyway that seems like a nice change.
However my question is why make it so complicated?? You are basically removing experience penalty for quests over 21, but it will be very hard for everyone to be aware of this change, and to understand it.

I imagine the player reaction: so quest is 20, usually I could go in with a 21 without malus, but since it's 20+ it's 2 more level, so I can go with someone 2 levels higher, oh wait no 1 level because rule is different for level 20 quests... so I can open it up to level 22! Oh wait I want to run it on hard, is it a level 21 quest now so I can open it up to level 24 or is it to level 23?!!!

Why not simply say, level 20+ quests have no xp penalty for anyone in the level 20-25 bracket? It's been suggested already on the beta forum when you asked our feedback on using destinies as the new lvl20+ character level calculation, and this seems like a straightforward and efficient system.

Also are you going to do the same for challenges? CR 23 vs CR 25 makes a HUGE difference for cannith challenges.


EDIT: Don't want to look like I don't like the change, it is a great lovely change. And thanks for making it!

[aurum1]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

Does 'for xp purposes' include bravery bonus?

[SirValentine]

mistype

[MadFloyd]

mistype

No, you're quoting my post before I realized it was wrong and edited it.

[Scraap]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

Baseline, or + difficulty?

[MadFloyd]

Baseline, or + difficulty?

+difficulty

[MadFloyd]

Does 'for xp purposes' include bravery bonus?

Unfortunately not - at least not for patch 2.

Thanks for asking that, it's important to distinguish. It was all we could do to squeeze this in. We'll look at it again for Update 15 (August).

[djl]

Unfortunately not - at least not for patch 2.

Thanks for asking that, it's important to distinguish. It was all we could do to squeeze this in. We'll look at it again for Update 15 (August).

Would it be possible to also change/remove the "repetition penalties" for epic level quests, as well? With the way it's currently designed, after capping four or five destinies you have almost used up every bit of exp available and have to resort to doing challenges over and over or else TR to reset your counters. Many people don't find challenges interesting enough to grind for millions of experience, and on third life+ characters it's a headache to go through 4m more heroic exp just to get back to where you can enjoyably quest at the epic level.

[Ertay]

Would it be possible to also change/remove the "repetition penalties" for epic level quests, as well? With the way it's currently designed, after capping four or five destinies you have almost used up every bit of exp available and have to resort to doing challenges over and over or else TR to reset your counters. Many people don't find challenges interesting enough to grind for millions of experience, and on third life+ characters it's a headache to go through 4m more heroic exp just to get back to where you can enjoyably quest at the epic level.

In fact, the most problematic part of this is that this system actively penalizes you for running a quest you like multiple times. You have to purposefully hold back on the quests that suit your playstyle/that you find effective in grinding out xp, until you hit 25 in order to get the most out of it.

Under the current system, I'd say the best way I see would be waiving the repetition penalties as well once you reach 25. It won't change anything for the people who know about it already, and will protect the less knowledgeable players from cheating themselves out of their xp in the end.

[maddmatt70]

Couple things:

1) There is (already on live) no power leveling penalty for anyone 20 and over.

2) For patch 2, we are reducing XP penalties as follows:

a) If the quest CR is level 21+ the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 2 (for XP purposes only).
b) If the quest CR is level 20 the spread between max player level and quest CR is reduced by 1 (for XP purposes only).

This will not affect challenges.

Perhaps not perfect, but should help.

This is a nice change but I will still leave my characters at 23 for the most part because I do not want to take the xp penalty for running level 22 or 23 quests at level 25. You devs will have to do better then this.

[nivarch]

Would it be possible to also change/remove the "repetition penalties" for epic level quests, as well? With the way it's currently designed, after capping four or five destinies you have almost used up every bit of exp available and have to resort to doing challenges over and over or else TR to reset your counters. Many people don't find challenges interesting enough to grind for millions of experience, and on third life+ characters it's a headache to go through 4m more heroic exp just to get back to where you can enjoyably quest at the epic level.

Agreed.

The current best way to level up is to run good quests once, then grind challenges until you are capped, then farm the best quests without repetition penalty.

[Carpone]

Would it be possible to also change/remove the "repetition penalties" for epic level quests, as well? With the way it's currently designed, after capping four or five destinies you have almost used up every bit of exp available and have to resort to doing challenges over and over or else TR to reset your counters. Many people don't find challenges interesting enough to grind for millions of experience, and on third life+ characters it's a headache to go through 4m more heroic exp just to get back to where you can enjoyably quest at the epic level.

I'd really like to hear more from developers about this specific issue. Several of my characters have completed most MOTU quests multiple times while leveling, so even at cap they are receiving a repetition penalty (even though repetitions no longer increment at level cap). Older epic quests are too low level to farm for XP due to being base level 20-22.

[chickenmaniac]

Thanks for your responses all. Glad it didn't end up a doom thread. Probably why we got a positive response so quickly.

I imagine the main reason for creating an algorithm for the xp penalty rather than a blanket (21+ = 20 for xp purposes) is to leave room for quests CR 25+ in the future.