Has anyone used the Korthos Island story for PnP?

[Chrasch]

I'm working on converting it into a 4th Edition set of quests for 1st level players and I think I've done pretty good but it would also be nice to get some tips from someone who has already used it in PnP, even if they stuck with 3.5 Edition.

[Varhann]

I did a 2nd Edition conversion that was a challenging lvl 1-4 new group campaigne. It's a great set up for new players and is fairly linear in the storytelling. You could plug and play into any world, as the beginning is about as generic as you can get. Once it gets going, it a good ride for both players and DM. One note however, the Korthos storyline seems to share a lot in common with the orginal Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh series from 1ed. If you could get a look at those, it might help you a bit.

What tips are you looking for? Feel free to PM me.

[Diyon]

I'm working on converting it into a 4th Edition set of quests for 1st level players and I think I've done pretty good but it would also be nice to get some tips from someone who has already used it in PnP, even if they stuck with 3.5 Edition.

1. Either change the dragon set up or make it really REALLY obvious that attempting to go head on with the dragon is basically suicide. In DDO, that dragon is fought in a lvl17 quest, a group of lvl 1-3's would get mauled in a few rounds, if that, with little opportunity for escape. Especially since groups, more so early on, take on the line of thinking of, "Oh! We have to go slay the *insert monster here*! That's what we're supposed to do, and the DM wouldn't let us run into something we couldn't handle (false if I'm running it =P)."

2. Be prepared for the plot to go completely off course. Trying to predict what players will do and expect that is perilous at best. Even if you seem to have them down perfectly, just when something critical is happening, someone will pull something out of left field on you. So expect that its not going to follow the same way the DDO storyline goes. Also, in DDO, you fail Cannith Crystal, you just try again. In PnP, the group fails and the crystal is broken, then you still have a live party and are going to have to deal with what happens because of that. Likewise, if Heyton dies instead of lives. Also, be prepared for some things to be completely ignored, while something you weren't even thinking about gets latched onto.

3. Don't fool yourself, unless you make it completely impossible for the party to remove, they are totally taking the Mindsunder artifact instead of destroying it. Consider the implications of allowing the party access to something that will give them control of an old white dragon at lvls 1-3.

4. Nice plus, all the maps are already made for you! You just need to grid them.

5. Remember, there aren't arbitrary invisible walls in PnP. And characters can climb.

6. A floor tile puzzle is going to be difficult to pull off in PnP, and would probably be really boring.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh

Arggg! You beat me to it! Korthos is VERY much like this module, that is if you take out the snowy/ sunny setting.

[Chrasch]

1. Either change the dragon set up or make it really REALLY obvious that attempting to go head on with the dragon is basically suicide. In DDO, that dragon is fought in a lvl17 quest, a group of lvl 1-3's would get mauled in a few rounds, if that, with little opportunity for escape. Especially since groups, more so early on, take on the line of thinking of, "Oh! We have to go slay the *insert monster here*! That's what we're supposed to do, and the DM wouldn't let us run into something we couldn't handle (false if I'm running it =P)."

2. Be prepared for the plot to go completely off course. Trying to predict what players will do and expect that is perilous at best. Even if you seem to have them down perfectly, just when something critical is happening, someone will pull something out of left field on you. So expect that its not going to follow the same way the DDO storyline goes. Also, in DDO, you fail Cannith Crystal, you just try again. In PnP, the group fails and the crystal is broken, then you still have a live party and are going to have to deal with what happens because of that. Likewise, if Heyton dies instead of lives. Also, be prepared for some things to be completely ignored, while something you weren't even thinking about gets latched onto.

3. Don't fool yourself, unless you make it completely impossible for the party to remove, they are totally taking the Mindsunder artifact instead of destroying it. Consider the implications of allowing the party access to something that will give them control of an old white dragon at lvls 1-3.

4. Nice plus, all the maps are already made for you! You just need to grid them.

5. Remember, there aren't arbitrary invisible walls in PnP. And characters can climb.

6. A floor tile puzzle is going to be difficult to pull off in PnP, and would probably be really boring.

AH yes. Details, add more I should. Well it's my first time playing at all but I have read a lot about DM'ing and even read some manuscripts of early level games. The people that I'm roping into playing are my parents, grandmother, and sister because I'm tired of looking for a group and not finding one. I'm not going to include the floor puzzle. I'm also going to remove Jeets, Cellimas, and Talbron and let them decide who goes down the left path(toward the dragon) and who goes down the right path toward the Mindsunder. I won't let them know which way is which. I thought the Mindsunder was only amplifying the powers of the Illithid that was controlling the Dragon?

[Diyon]

AH yes. Details, add more I should. Well it's my first time playing at all but I have read a lot about DM'ing and even read some manuscripts of early level games. The people that I'm roping into playing are my parents, grandmother, and sister because I'm tired of looking for a group and not finding one. I'm not going to include the floor puzzle. I'm also going to remove Jeets, Cellimas, and Talbron and let them decide who goes down the left path(toward the dragon) and who goes down the right path toward the Mindsunder. I won't let them know which way is which. I thought the Mindsunder was only amplifying the powers of the Illithid that was controlling the Dragon?

First off, one of the less disputable things the 4e books have going for it is the 4e DMG is an excellent book, especially for a new DM, regardless of what edition or even game you're playing. So if you've read that, you're off to a good start.

As I said, be careful with the dragon. You need to do one of two things with that:

1. Leave the dragon massively over the level of the party. If you do this, if the party tries to fight the dragon, party members will die, if not all of them. To avoid this, incorporate some things that make it abundantly clear that trying to just take on the dragon directly is a bad, BAD idea. I say this once again, because many players will just assume because its there, they can kill it, no worries.

2. Change the dragon. Make it so that the dragon would make for a really challenging fight if faced directly, but something that the party could conceivably handle. Personally, I don't like this direction as fighting the dragon I think is less interesting than infiltrating the lair, tracking down the control device enslaving the dragon, and removing that to neutralize what would otherwise be an undefeatable foe. And you say, "But they could still take the device option!" True, but unlikely. In my experience, if the dragon is something that the party could kill, the party is likely to go with the "KILL THE DRAGON! ARGHFARGLE BLOOD DEATH ARGFSMSLGL!"

3. Just thought of this, same as number one, except you drop some hints and info that the dragon isn't actually evil (and in DDO, actually isn't). If the party knows the dragon is not evil, they'd probably be more inclined to try to save the dragon in the process of saving the island.

[Chrasch]

First off, one of the less disputable things the 4e books have going for it is the 4e DMG is an excellent book, especially for a new DM, regardless of what edition or even game you're playing. So if you've read that, you're off to a good start.

As I said, be careful with the dragon. You need to do one of two things with that:

1. Leave the dragon massively over the level of the party. If you do this, if the party tries to fight the dragon, party members will die, if not all of them. To avoid this, incorporate some things that make it abundantly clear that trying to just take on the dragon directly is a bad, BAD idea. I say this once again, because many players will just assume because its there, they can kill it, no worries.

2. Change the dragon. Make it so that the dragon would make for a really challenging fight if faced directly, but something that the party could conceivably handle. Personally, I don't like this direction as fighting the dragon I think is less interesting than infiltrating the lair, tracking down the control device enslaving the dragon, and removing that to neutralize what would otherwise be an undefeatable foe. And you say, "But they could still take the device option!" True, but unlikely. In my experience, if the dragon is something that the party could kill, the party is likely to go with the "KILL THE DRAGON! ARGHFARGLE BLOOD DEATH ARGFSMSLGL!"

3. Just thought of this, same as number one, except you drop some hints and info that the dragon isn't actually evil (and in DDO, actually isn't). If the party knows the dragon is not evil, they'd probably be more inclined to try to save the dragon in the process of saving the island.

Really? I always thought that when he said that he wasn't supposed to be there and that he had a higher purpose he meant that he had more important things to kill or pillage. The Monster Manual lists White Dragons as inherently evil. Anyway yeah I'll make sure they know that it's a bad idea to mess with the Dragon. We'll see if they listen.

[Calebro]

1. Either change the dragon set up or make it really REALLY obvious that attempting to go head on with the dragon is basically suicide.

A party of level 3 and below that decide to fight a dragon instead of running for their friggin lives will get what they deserve.
If you happen to be DM'ing that party, you need to find a new group of players....

[Captain_Wizbang]

As I said, be careful with the dragon. .

OP, for ANY player to suggest about using a dragon in a low level campaign is well;;; not advisable

Especially a white dragon!

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

Maybe you might remotely have a slight, (less than 3%) chance of finding it's lair, and less of a chance that it's a white dragon! Even IF they are in the module, proper DM protocol is to roll for the chance/ type/ & hit die for it.

Let's say you actually find one! What then?
White dragons are EXTREMELY intelligent, and you would be in the small percentile of people to find it's lair.

And I guarantee you, if you happen to get inside the entrance, you'll have a sleep spell cast that you won't get out of, for quite sometime. By then the dragon has either eaten you, or moved you so far away, you'll be packing lunch in a brown paper bag for a very, long time!

Dragons are the single most rarely seen monster in D&D, oh sure a DM can plug them into the campaign, but at that point, why use templates? go free style!

Besides, dragons KNOW why you're there, and they aren't giving up it's loot for a bunch of squishies!

Rock on. Use Korthos for a guide line, that's how good gaming starts, is by being creative. Just forget dragons for a while.

[Chrasch]

OP, for ANY player to suggest about using a dragon in a low level campaign is well;;; nonsense!

Especially a white dragon!

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

Maybe you might remotely have a slight, (less than 3%) chance of finding it's lair, and less of a chance that it's a white dragon! Even IF they are in the module, proper DM protocol is to roll for the chance/ type/ & hit die for it.

Let's say you actually find one! What then?
White dragons are EXTREMELY intelligent, and you would be in the small percentile of people to find it's lair.

And I guarantee you, if you happen to get inside the entrance, you'll have a sleep spell cast that you won't get out of, for quite sometime. By then the dragon has either eaten you, or moved you so far away, you'll be packing lunch in a brown paper bag for a very, long time!

Dragons are the single most rarely seen monster in D&D, oh sure a DM can plug them into the campaign, but at that point, why use templates? go free style!

Besides, dragons KNOW why you're there, and they aren't giving up it's loot for a bunch of squishies!

Rock on. Use Korthos for a guide line, that's how good gaming starts, is by being creative. Just forget dragons for a while.

A. Because the Dragon wasn't in it's normal lair, it was being mind controlled. B. Because the fact that my Dad is probably going to try and chop off it's head is hilarious. Like I said they'll have the option to go left(Dragon) or right(mindsunder). If they're lucky they'll pick the right path. If they're smart and unlucky then they'll only send 1 or 2 people down the left path. If they are unlucky and not smart then they will run into the sleeping Dragon. At this point in time if they choose not to retreat but to attack said sleeping dragon, like dude up there said, they deserve to die.

[Diyon]

Really? I always thought that when he said that he wasn't supposed to be there and that he had a higher purpose he meant that he had more important things to kill or pillage. The Monster Manual lists White Dragons as inherently evil. Anyway yeah I'll make sure they know that it's a bad idea to mess with the Dragon. We'll see if they listen.

Eberron campaign setting. Alignments are a lot looser. A good red dragon would not be unusual at all (whereas typically its a freak exception). The dragon in Korthos can be fought in the quest Prey on the Hunter, and through simple testing you can see that she (and her mate) are not evil aligned or good aligned (Holy does no extra damage but pure good still works). Likewise, in Necro IV, there's a Lawful Good ghost beholder.

A party of level 3 and below that decide to fight a dragon instead of running for their friggin lives will get what they deserve.
If you happen to be DM'ing that party, you need to find a new group of players....

Well, generally a party that's played before will know that, but two factors make the point worth saying:

1. New players. New players have to learn this.

2. He said he's running 4e, so using the youngest, weakest dragon in the MM (which happens to be a white dragon), its a creature rated as an average challenge for a party of 5 lvl 3s. So a party of 5 lvl 1s (possibly fewer) would have it as a challenging fight, one that is within reason to pull off. Like I said though, I would recommend using a much higher lvl one, have some things discourage a direct confrontation action, and make the party pay the price if they don't heed the warnings.

[Monroid]

I'm sure making one right now!

I'm getting the settings ready, I'm making some sahuagin minis and the dragon too, although he won't play a big part in the campaign, I think it was time to make a dragon

I only need to make some cultists, some zombies and the mindflayer now...







It all looks half-assed because it's under development

[Diyon]

OP, for ANY player to suggest about using a dragon in a low level campaign is well;;; nonsense!

Especially a white dragon!

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

Maybe you might remotely have a slight, (less than 3%) chance of finding it's lair, and less of a chance that it's a white dragon! Even IF they are in the module, proper DM protocol is to roll for the chance/ type/ & hit die for it.

Let's say you actually find one! What then?
White dragons are EXTREMELY intelligent, and you would be in the small percentile of people to find it's lair.

And I guarantee you, if you happen to get inside the entrance, you'll have a sleep spell cast that you won't get out of, for quite sometime. By then the dragon has either eaten you, or moved you so far away, you'll be packing lunch in a brown paper bag for a very, long time!

Dragons are the single most rarely seen monster in D&D, oh sure a DM can plug them into the campaign, but at that point, why use templates? go free style!

Besides, dragons KNOW why you're there, and they aren't giving up it's loot for a bunch of squishies!

Rock on. Use Korthos for a guide line, that's how good gaming starts, is by being creative. Just forget dragons for a while.

See my previous post. He's running 4e. He COULD throw the weakest true dragon in the book at them and they could potentially handle it. Once again, I'd use a much stronger one and make them pay if they poked it.

[Chrasch]

Eberron campaign setting. Alignments are a lot looser. A good red dragon would not be unusual at all (whereas typically its a freak exception). The dragon in Korthos can be fought in the quest Prey on the Hunter, and through simple testing you can see that she (and her mate) are not evil aligned or good aligned (Holy does no extra damage but pure good still works). Likewise, in Necro IV, there's a Lawful Good ghost beholder.



Well, generally a party that's played before will know that, but two factors make the point worth saying:

1. New players. New players have to learn this.

2. He said he's running 4e, so using the youngest, weakest dragon in the MM (which happens to be a white dragon), its a creature rated as an average challenge for a party of 5 lvl 3s. So a party of 5 lvl 1s (possibly fewer) would have it as a challenging fight, one that is within reason to pull off. Like I said though, I would recommend using a much higher lvl one, have some things discourage a direct confrontation action, and make the party pay the price if they don't heed the warnings.

Oh yeah. I figure that the Dragon has to be at least an Elder Dragon to be able to completely destroy a Mindflayer Mastermind in one shot. So that's what it's gonna be.

[Diyon]

I'm sure making one right now!

I'm getting the settings ready, I'm making some sahuagin minis and the dragon too, although he won't play a big part in the campaign, I think it was time to make a dragon

I only need to make some cultists, some zombies and the mindflayer now...







It all looks half-assed because it's under development

Having made some mini's of my own, what material are you using to construct them? Most of the stuff I've done has been just modifying some old mage knight figures via paint, glue, and razor.

Edit: Oh, and awesome!!!!!

Edit2: Awesome! A four armed Sahuagin! I've been disappointed none of those showed up in DDO.

[-Nismu-]

Well the dragon would be excellent way to teach newbies that sometimes its better stay away.

If they decide to attack dragon (after they have broken the crystal) maybe dragon would just toy with them and let them go to pay the favor breaking the control ? of course letting them go barely alive.

[Captain_Wizbang]

If they decide to attack dragon .

Dragons almost always will talk to you first, so that theory of attacking is out. At least in a practical way.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Aussircaex

Type: Dragon
Race: White Dragon
Alignment: Unknown alignment
Boss: Red Named - Quest Boss
Rare: No
CR: 32
Attack:
Special Qualities: See Invisible
Habitat:
Description:
Encountered in;

• Misery's Peak (no fight though)
• Prey on the Hunter in Aussircaex's Valley (optional fight)

Copied from wiki, so, if you're going to follow the story line, you can't fight him.

One of my favorite ploys in D&D is to figure out how NOT to fight anything that doesnt bleed red blood.! And a white dragon would love to try & ensnare you in their trickery and most likely riddles! There is also a slight chance that the dragon will hire or enlist via a geas on a self serviant mission. (usually to steal loot he wants)

[Chrasch]

Aussircaex

Type: Dragon
Race: White Dragon
Alignment: Unknown alignment
Boss: Red Named - Quest Boss
Rare: No
CR: 32
Attack:
Special Qualities: See Invisible
Habitat:
Description:
Encountered in;

• Misery's Peak (no fight though)
• Prey on the Hunter in Aussircaex's Valley (optional fight)

Copied from wiki, so, if you're going to follow the story line, you can't fight him.

One of my favorite ploys in D&D is to figure out how NOT to fight anything that doesnt bleed red blood.! And a white dragon would love to try & ensnare you in their trickery and most likely riddles! There is also a slight chance that the dragon will hire or enlist via a geas on a self serviant mission. (usually to steal loot he wants)

Who's the DM here? I asked for tips and advice. Not "you can't do this" Why not? I'm the DM. If you'll remember Jeets, Cellimas, and Talbron attacked the dragon to distract it. Since I'm not including them I'm gonna let the players go left if they want to.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Aussircaex is not that old... and in case that matters, male.
Aussiroth is his mate, female. Yes, they're straight.

They're both young adults. Almost teenagers in dragon years.
Which means, they think they're responsible enough to start a family, but not smart enough to act rationally when threatened.