Half-Elves: Playability

[IronClan]

hmm, I'm not so sure. Would tempest I, Berzerker III be over powered?

Possibly, but lets consider what Kensai III adds that a 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 x can already get... Kensai II and Tempest I... A finesse Elf or Drow (rare builds I know) is going to out dex the Helf, a Strength Horc is going to out STR the Helf, a Human gets free Khopesh feat...

Helfs are stuck in the middle with nothing much to recommend them as a melee class.

Now Compare a Helf FB III tempest I with a Horc FB III Does Tempest outweigh all those Strength and two handed fighting AND power attack enhancements? The Helf also is using almost all AP's for the PrE's doubtful he'll have any left even if he did have a PA enhancement line (which he doesn't obviously)...

IMO on the face of it it sounds OP but when you consider a Horc FB III is still going to be out DPS'ing the Helf it kinda puts it in perspective. the neat part is it actually encourages deeper multiclassing... For example a Helf "battle mage" build might take the first 3 arch mage PrE's and still be able to take a fourth tier at 15th level, even with 6 melee levels (a 6 ranger 14 wiz build or some flavor of that). So you could have a sort of "Arcane Knight" build flavor... It wouldn't be uber but it would make the trade off a little easier to accept. And make the deep multi a little less gimpy

[IronClan]

- being able to use heal scrolls with a 95% rate and rez scrolls at a 100% rate
- 20% healing amplification coupled with up to 5AC from Wisdom
- 3D6 sneak attack on each hit

All those are just minor aspects?

They are heal scrolls be done with UMD which is very desirable to have and is useful for lots of other stuff (such as putting on nice RR gear).

Second there's lots of gear/enhancements that give healing amp... If you want useful AC from your wisdom score you splash Monk and can get a lot more than 5 and you might actually end up with an AC that's high enough to matter. You'll also end up with two feats, Evasion, and a saves bonus...

3d6 is nice... except that 2 rogue splash gives 1d6 and is extremely common and desirable for evasion, also gives UMD as a class skill, and you get to start the game with a dozen skills pumped to 4 (which in many cases is a useful score though the whole game)... If that Dili gave Helf's the ability to select evasion as a feat at 12th or 15th level it would be a selling point that would force me to consider spending TP's... but 3d6 alone only when in sneak attack situations?

I'm not arguing that the dili's are worthless. just that for the purposes of enticing me to buy Helfs in the store, they are very much "meh". Especially when you consider that most of them can be obtained with a splash that is better due to all the other things the splash brings.

[Cold_Stele]

Overall power: not top of the line but in some case they can out perform other races and it has been proven.

Could I trouble you for a couple of examples please?

[chance2000]

-- Overall balance against other races:
Not sure of all classes have made a Bard liked , Cleric really like

-- Combat animations:
Have not noticed any difference

-- Overall power of the race:
Good

-- Racial Enhancements:
I like the dilettante the fighter for a cleric rocks , makes a cleric that can defend its self

-- Dragonmarks:

never pick them

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:

I like

Any comments you'd like to make:

I like, would like to see more choices with the faces


----

[irivan]

----
What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:
Really just fine and they have great versatility, make really ideal bard and rogue combo multi's, can generate crazy intimidations with the multi button combo.

-- Combat animations:
Fine, although i am still looking for cooler combat animations, like whirling blades, etc

-- Overall power of the race:
The half has so many possible rubiks solutions that it would really depend on which one you chose, you can gimp it, or you can take some things to new heights.

-- Racial Enhancements:
This is where i often get frustrated, you can do many things but you often lack enough AP to go all the way, like i wanted to make a AA fighter bard with the full dragon mark line and the cleric dilatante, but i just couldn't afford all of the different stuff i wanted. Also trying to understand which stat enhancers could be used in combination with others was a little grueling too.

-- Dragonmarks:
Unfortunately to get to the last dragon mark just absorbs way to many feats, wish Dragonmarks were 1 feet, and the rest enhancements, might make it possible to go all the way.

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:
I tried and liked it for a short time and then moved on to other things, i cant say it was because of the race, but then it again it did not grab me like my Half Orc did.

Any comments you'd like to make:
Yes, while i like half elves and all, i still have a burning desire to play a plane touched race in this game, like Genasi, Teifling, Aasimar, etc...

Thank you.

[Robi3.0]

Guys as much as I have enjoyed this thread you should know that it was posted in September of last year when Helfs were first released.

I seriously doubt that feed back on this topic is relevant to the Lama preview cycle at this point in time.

[Desteria]

Havent actule played one yet but i can still answere half the questions, form lookign stuff up, and knowign my planed tr in to them.

What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:
Great they are on of the better options.

-- Overall power of the race:
Great they are one of the better races, best for twf melee dps if you dont have rouge levels in your builkd with delitant. just barlly best but they are.

-- Racial Enhancements:
Cool lots of nice human ones and some of the delitant stuf fis great.
After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:

Any comments you'd like to make:
Played around with the creation on looks and it's hard to make them look good the males at least but that nto to big a dead since i look at teh back mostly any way.

[stille_nacht]

Could I trouble you for a couple of examples please?

probably has to do with Rogue Dilletante + other stuff

[Shmuel]

----
What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:

they are clearly weaker than any of the other races. While I get that they are supposed to be versatile but not deeply skilled in any one thing, this leaves them at best a 2nd rate race to use for virtually any build.

-- Combat animations:

These never interested me much with any of the races so fine i guess.

-- Overall power of the race:

weak. they need a boost. the dilettante enhancement lines were a good start, but they need to go further. you should be able to reach caster level 11 for the caster ones, and have some additional dps boosts for the others.

-- Racial Enhancements:

as i said above, improve the dilettante ones. it is googd that they do not have elven weapon ones cause then what would be the point of ever building an elf again? I see a lot of trouble balancing these two to not make one or the other very substandard.

-- Dragonmarks:

fine

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:

my favorite pnp race is totally useless in ddo and i wont be making any characters with them as they stand now. also would not recommend any of the ptp ppl buy them.

Any comments you'd like to make:

maybe give them something to make them a high quality race for some build or other. how about bards maybe?

----

We appreciate your feedback!

[Spangled]

----
What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:
Reasonably well balanced. Nothing game breaking, but allow for some nice additions to builds.

-- Combat animations:
No comment

-- Overall power of the race:
Same as balance against other races

-- Racial Enhancements:
The ability to chose human and elven enhancements is really good. The bonus feat is worthwhile and makes for some interesting tweaks to builds

-- Dragonmarks:
No comment

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:
A race that opens up a lot of "build space". Potentially a great addition to ddo which encourages novel and unique builds, but see comments below.

Any comments you'd like to make:
Half elves look like alien burn victims. Completely unnatural with plastic faces. I was so disappointed. I literally cannot make a half elf that I can stand to look at, and, let's face it, the one never-changing thing you look at all the time whilst playing ddo is your toon. Their looks are so bad, that I refuse to play them. This is the general opinion of everyone I know in DDO. I have lots of ideas for half-elf builds which will never see the light of day specifically because I cannot stand looking at them. I find it difficult to understand how you could do such a good job on male and female half orcs and such a bad job on half elves. It is something when you can make a more pleasing looking female half orc than a female half elf.

(While you are at it, can you do something about the back of halflings' skulls. Way too pointy.)

[Shade]

[Cold_Stele]

Poster #27 when you necroed this and people started posting I thought 'maybe Turbine are looking at HElf again because they're junk and no one's buying them. Maybe I won't have to TR to HOrc after all.'

Apparently not.

Thanks, thanks a lot.

/munches Heart of Wood and grows pig snout...

[ZaxisDakmorr]

What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:

Not as good as other. Half-Elves of Khorvaire is a race of it's own, therefore they should have something of their own.

-- Combat animations:

What? Do they have their own combat animation?! When?! How?!

-- Overall power of the race:

Currently, sort of...meh. It's kinda good after TR but before that...don't use them (to get a difference).

-- Racial Enhancements:

Not much, really. It's kinda useless since I dont really use it. But if you mean their racial feat, then....wrong. Totally wrong. This is not Abeir-Toril (meaning 4th ed). Excluding DnD rules; the feats are biased to some classes...not fair between other dillettetantes (mind the spelling).

-- Dragonmarks:

I used it for a while. Then got bored because they only "look" powderful, but lacks a punch. Just like Dan's Hadouken (the action is there but the output..meh).

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:

Half-elves were cool before 3.5. They were made cool again in 4.0. In DDO, half-elves is like "the race you'll only pick if by using them gives ya 100 TP per day". But as I said above, they're on par with other races once ya TR'd to one (compared to a non TR'd other race). I only use them because the male (ONLY THE MALE) is better lookin then a human male.

Any comments you'd like to make:

Please improve them...especially the female looks coz they're uglier than a female orc. I will NEVER make a female half-elf toon...EVER if ya don't change their looks (but I'm willing to make one if by using them gives me 100 TP per day).

[Dragavon]

Half-elves need a little boost.

Give them access to both elven and ooman enhancements at the same time. Give them access to all ooman and all elven enhancements.

Improve their looks.

Then helves would be all the rage.

[IronClan]

Lets see, 10-27-2010 to 2-10-2011... that's 3 months and 2 week... Not exactly an epic thread necro.

Quick: tell me why it's so bad to bring up an old thread... tick tock...


Don't worry I wont wait for an answer... I've asked that question countless times over 20 years from BB's to Usenet to web forums, and I've never seen a single VALID reasonable answer. the only answer I've ever read that makes sense is (paraphrasing) "I don't like it for some reason it bothers me, and that makes me want to jump on the person who did it"

Incidentally that's the same reason I have a pet peeve about people who COMPLAIN about thread necro's

Anyway back on topic, it probably took a while for enough people to grudingly buy Helfs to get any real response to the question. Unfortunately Thoon probably isn't paying attention any more.

[Tobril]

Hm….looks like being VIP colored my judgment about the race.

Considering they are trying to sell these things a mild bump would
be OK. The only problem with this is making sure to keep the other
races relevant *cough drow cough* as half elves are pretty nice atm.


A few minor overlooked benefits:
Large pool of RR equipment. (certain loot-gen stuff is better than GS/epic gear in certain situations)
Qualify for elf PrE’s and future human PrE’s


Now if they could just fix the alien crackhead zombie appearance thing…

[Cold_Stele]

Lets see, 10-27-2010 to 2-10-2011... that's 3 months and 2 week... Not exactly an epic thread necro.

Quick: tell me why it's so bad to bring up an old thread... tick tock...

Because you made me, and everyone else who replied, waste 5 minutes of our lives posting in a thread thinking we were giving feedback that would be listened to.

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Can your half-elf talk a kobold out throwing a flaming keg at you? Is the Mark of Storm worth it on that fighter of yours?

After playing around with half-elves for a bit, take a few minutes to answer the following questions. Copy and paste the form below into your post and answer away!

----
What did you think of:
-- Overall balance against other races:

-- Combat animations:

-- Overall power of the race:

-- Racial Enhancements:

-- Dragonmarks:

After playing them, what is your overall opinion of half-elves:

Any comments you'd like to make:


----

We appreciate your feedback!

IMVHO, I can summarize Helfs as Humans+. I've no idea why people say they're gimped with such an awesome class Dilettante ehancements, double-dipping with human enhancements and same stats as humans. I, for one, I think they are A-OK.

[IronClan]

Because you made me, and everyone else who replied, waste 5 minutes of our lives posting in a thread thinking we were giving feedback that would be listened to.

That's embarrassing, next time at least try actually reading the thread and being correct before you accuse someone of something. I was (of course) not the person who necro'd the thread.

If I had necro'ed it I would have put a nice little sentence in there to sooth the sort of person who gets all tizzied by such things. And to denote that I could care less about necro'ing threads.

As for the point, do we know that Thoon has deleted this thread from his subscriptions? If not then you're just assuming. Maybe he's paying attention maybe not. If he is it's worth adding more responses.

[Robi3.0]

Lets see, 10-27-2010 to 2-10-2011... that's 3 months and 2 week... Not exactly an epic thread necro.

Quick: tell me why it's so bad to bring up an old thread... tick tock...

How about, this Lama cycle is all about getting feedback on the live event. That is what the Turbine Preview folks want and need.

Nercoing this thread distracting from that. Sure half elf feedback is always wanted but it would be better suited for the suggestion section of the live forum. Where the thread would not hamper the gathering of Lama feedback.