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  1. #1
    Community Member Bigrtt's Avatar
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    Default ToD nerf = Bad times ahead

    No, I'm not going to ramble on about how the nerf was a bad thing or a good thing, frankly I couldn't really care anymore because I'm back to being a light monk, where I originally started.

    No, what I'm here to say is the ToD nerf has effectively shifted the Monk class to the lower end of the pile for a 'DPS' class. Trying to join groups today was horrendous. I consider myself a fairly well known monk on my server, and most of the time when I'm not grouped I'm getting asked to go run something with someone. I was never intended to be a 'pure DPS monk' instead I've always gone down the balanced path and have a based my build around stuns.

    Here's the problem which I'm getting, and I'm sure so many others are getting. Ever since U7 has gone live, us monks are pretty much considered to not be a DPS class. So if we're not DPS, what are we? I get for some quests people would rather have another barbarian rather than a monk that can stun mobs, but for most of the quests LFMs I apply to I know the group would benefit more from having a stunning monk rather than just another straight dps.

    How many others out there are having similar experiences?

  2. #2
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    They are fools if they dont accept a monk.
    Monks still can fill the dps spot, also i have yet to see a real hard quest/raid where its a must to have the top dps class.
    I dont have a monk yet, but i see them in fight, and they do a lot for the group, dark or light, doesnt matter. I accept them always when i need more dps.
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  3. #3
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    LOL people will learn soon enough...with the shintao PrE & its amrath necky/ring set "low dps" monk will now be able to bypass pretty much every DR type except /chaos, /pierce & /slashing (maybe /crystal if any enemies have that yet?) regardless of what handraps you're using (for giggles, link a plain, unenchanted handwraps & the combat log damage feedback while boss beating), mix in burst effects on ToD rings & it'll possibly be one of the highest baseline DPS (not counting crits) available?*



    *please note this is just an opinion based on half-bottomed reasoning & the idea of at least 6 sources of different damage types on a character with no precise figures to back it up at this time...
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  4. #4
    Community Member Danmor's Avatar
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    I pity the fools that don't take monks.

    I'll take a well played monk (note the well-played) over a cookie-cutter barb any day. Those barbs are (more often than not) players who can't be bothered to take care of themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    If the melee asks "Why didn't you heal me before I died?", Healer response should be "Why didn't you kill it before you died?"
    Everybody's got the right to be stupid, some just abuse the privilege.

  5. #5
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Rasczak's Avatar
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    Monks are there to help low self-esteem kensai and/or barbarians gain the kill count they need to feel special, like mummy always told them they were.


    I'd take anyone with a stick tbh, I don't need 8 barbarians, 1 caster, 2 clerics and a bard to finish raids....I need haste, prayer and a good dark spot to hide in while the rest finish up so I can loot.
    Don't let common sense stop you...
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  6. #6
    Community Member AyumiAmakusa's Avatar
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    Monks are still DPS. If it was a choice between Monk or Barb, I'd go Monk.
    In case you didn't already notice, my posts that end with must NEVER EVER, under any circumstances, be taken seriously.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3012617

  7. #7
    Community Member ZeroTakenaka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrtt View Post
    No, I'm not going to ramble on about how the nerf was a bad thing or a good thing, frankly I couldn't really care anymore because I'm back to being a light monk, where I originally started.

    No, what I'm here to say is the ToD nerf has effectively shifted the Monk class to the lower end of the pile for a 'DPS' class. Trying to join groups today was horrendous. I consider myself a fairly well known monk on my server, and most of the time when I'm not grouped I'm getting asked to go run something with someone. I was never intended to be a 'pure DPS monk' instead I've always gone down the balanced path and have a based my build around stuns.

    Here's the problem which I'm getting, and I'm sure so many others are getting. Ever since U7 has gone live, us monks are pretty much considered to not be a DPS class. So if we're not DPS, what are we? I get for some quests people would rather have another barbarian rather than a monk that can stun mobs, but for most of the quests LFMs I apply to I know the group would benefit more from having a stunning monk rather than just another straight dps.

    How many others out there are having similar experiences?
    The monk's advantage is not in how much damage they can put out...

    It's in their pure survivability over most builds.
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  8. #8
    Community Member AyumiAmakusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTakenaka View Post
    It's in their pure survivability over most builds.
    Yes, this is exactly it.

    Ever wonder why so many solo raids are done with a monk?
    In case you didn't already notice, my posts that end with must NEVER EVER, under any circumstances, be taken seriously.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3012617

  9. #9
    Founder Fafnir's Avatar
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    I love my monk and it is fun to play but it does do a lot less dps than many classes much of the time. It's fun is in the range of nifty things it does.

  10. #10
    Community Member AMDarkwolf's Avatar
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    A monk is a casters and a clerics wet dream. U toss him in, and watch him fly around beating stuff. No he don't do 'as much' as a barb, but he also hardly needs any of those heals, and is usually too far out of range to buff, so he is worth a stack of mnomic pots to most supports.

    And the shintao chain.. non dps? Wht a laugh. How's 10% more dmg, -25% fortify, stunned(x2), ANOTHER nifty 'stun'(Tomb of jade), insta-banishes, insta-deaths, and when he feels like it, -25% mana cost, +2-5 to all skills, AND a nice little CLW now and then....


    Honestly, if someone denys me on my monk, because I'm a monk, I make a party to do the same thing he is, and I fill faster. Guess why?(The real LOL of it is that i get the healers )

  11. #11
    Community Member Tsuarok's Avatar
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    Blame the monk community. Or at least the ones who felt the need to not only make many threads on the topic but also to derail any thread talking about any other aspect of U7, thus ensuring that even those who don't read about monks heard how with the modification to ToD, monks couldn't DPS.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
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    Yesterday, when running to ADQ with my fighter and a monk, i was told by the monk that i desperately needed striding boots, while i had them on... And, i chugged a haste pot

    That's why they survive so well, it's their speed!






    I'm just joking, monks have a lot more than that, obviously . It only depends on who plays them. The problem is that they are one of those classes where it is easy to build them gimpy and people have the impression that all monks are gimps. Happens the same with rogues, for example...

    I think that a lot of people may have gotten a bad impression about post U7 monks these days because LOTS of people came to the forums to whine, rant and comment about the ToD re-balance/nerf...

    Don't let it get to you! The people that know you will acknowledge you for what you can do, and besides, a light monk is a great addition on any tod, for example!
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  13. #13
    Community Member Nathlin's Avatar
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    I dont know what kind of fools you've run into then, but we Monks can still dish out the damage.

    Just yesterday I was hate-tanking Suulo in a hard ToD run on my pure Monk. Dont have any incite on me, what-so-ever, and never lost aggro. Didnt do anything to alter my build after U7.

    Oh, and my Touch of Death has a gimpy 35 save with 20 Wisdom.
    ..And herewith, signing off in true Kathy style..Wakkka Wakkka.
    Character(s): Kathle - Monk <THC>, Nathlin - FVS <THC>, Smiert - Sorc <THC>.

  14. #14
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    Anyone that denies you because od a relatively minor nerf to monks' fantastic DPS is someone you don't want to run with anyway

  15. #15
    Community Member dpadan17's Avatar
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    yep....guess those groups don't want someone flying around in front of the pack, stunning the **** out of everything leaving it sitting there to be beaten down (IN AUTOCRIT MODE). Plus, my monks have led the kill counts several times against others as well.

    Just because TOD has been changed, does not mean a Monk is sub par. A well build monk has good survivability, good dps, (maybe good healing amp), and several other beni's. Like spell point saving, hit bonuses, being hit bonuses, and so on. Light monks have great DR breakers now too. Dark monks can still do the DR breaking by having a set of Metalline handwraps paired up with a set of burst rings= GOOD DPS.

    monks usually have great ac (dex based). i have seen and played with some monks who have ac's of 70's and still do great dps. don't get me wrong, Barbs do great dps, but monks are very underrated when it comes to dps. They do a bunch for groups.
    Sprulok TR 20 dark monk/ Spruloki lvl 20 TR'd Exploiter / Magnetik "aka Miss Piggy" TR'd 12ftr/6rgr/2monk/ tank / Trixxii lvl 20 TR'd light monk/ Bllaak Stabbath lvl 20 tr'd assassin/ Axetress lvl 14 juggernaut Zenaidemule --------------- Ghallanda server-------------Officer of the Captain's Crew

  16. #16
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    Well if you play easy mode like you guys seem to then sure a monk is great. When you're doing demon queen on epic her AC is high enough that your monk has to actually be built with enough to hit to get her, even the gimpy big top epic boss's AC is enough that if you have your "oh look I'm a survivable monk" your DPS is going to blow because you're not going to be hitting her. Barbarians on the other hand, they're going to hit, and hit hard. If you're doing bastion elite to get your yugaloth potions if your monk is actually built "survivable enough" to make a difference then you've gimped your DPS to the point where you may as well not be there anyway or you're just using vorpals and could be pretty much any class. The problem is that if you have focused on DPS, before the nerf you were at least competitive in the tough situations with other melee, now, forget about it, you can clean up the normal difficulty trash fine, but when it actually counts you're simply not going to get the spot in a tough elite or epic.

  17. #17

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Well if you play easy mode like you guys seem to then sure a monk is great. When you're doing demon queen on epic her AC is high enough that your monk has to actually be built with enough to hit to get her, even the gimpy big top epic boss's AC is enough that if you have your "oh look I'm a survivable monk" your DPS is going to blow because you're not going to be hitting her. Barbarians on the other hand, they're going to hit, and hit hard. If you're doing bastion elite to get your yugaloth potions if your monk is actually built "survivable enough" to make a difference then you've gimped your DPS to the point where you may as well not be there anyway or you're just using vorpals and could be pretty much any class. The problem is that if you have focused on DPS, before the nerf you were at least competitive in the tough situations with other melee, now, forget about it, you can clean up the normal difficulty trash fine, but when it actually counts you're simply not going to get the spot in a tough elite or epic.

    DPS charts have been posted and, even after you lost 30 of your 590 DPS because ToD got nerfed (This assumes auto-save except on a 1, so worst possible scenario), you still do competitive DPS.

  19. #19
    Community Member khaldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Well if you play easy mode like you guys seem to then sure a monk is great. When you're doing demon queen on epic her AC is high enough that your monk has to actually be built with enough to hit to get her, even the gimpy big top epic boss's AC is enough that if you have your "oh look I'm a survivable monk" your DPS is going to blow because you're not going to be hitting her. Barbarians on the other hand, they're going to hit, and hit hard. If you're doing bastion elite to get your yugaloth potions if your monk is actually built "survivable enough" to make a difference then you've gimped your DPS to the point where you may as well not be there anyway or you're just using vorpals and could be pretty much any class. The problem is that if you have focused on DPS, before the nerf you were at least competitive in the tough situations with other melee, now, forget about it, you can clean up the normal difficulty trash fine, but when it actually counts you're simply not going to get the spot in a tough elite or epic.
    mid 50s to hit is hard to get on a monk?

    I'm honestly not sure what the normal monk to hit it, but with some prep(WoE/WoFatigue/destruction/imp destruction) AC shouldn't be a problem.

  20. #20
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Well if you play easy mode like you guys seem to then sure a monk is great. When you're doing demon queen on epic her AC is high enough that your monk has to actually be built with enough to hit to get her, even the gimpy big top epic boss's AC is enough that if you have your "oh look I'm a survivable monk" your DPS is going to blow because you're not going to be hitting her. Barbarians on the other hand, they're going to hit, and hit hard. If you're doing bastion elite to get your yugaloth potions if your monk is actually built "survivable enough" to make a difference then you've gimped your DPS to the point where you may as well not be there anyway or you're just using vorpals and could be pretty much any class. The problem is that if you have focused on DPS, before the nerf you were at least competitive in the tough situations with other melee, now, forget about it, you can clean up the normal difficulty trash fine, but when it actually counts you're simply not going to get the spot in a tough elite or epic.
    My wis/dex lt monk seems to have a much different experience than you have provided.

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