Archer Nerf

[Aesop]

Just poking in to tell you that we are investigating to see if we can find an issue here.

while you're at it see about upping the overall RoA on Bows

Aesop

[rest]

I cant imagine they'd let that bug go live.

I really can't imagine it...reallly....right devs????

Oh Pollyanna.

[Coldin]

while you're at it see about upping the overall RoA on Bows

Aesop

We keep hoping. Ever think it will actually happen?

[DropList]

While investigating pleas throw in a stealth 30% speed increase...its ok...dont tell us and it will be fine

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Just poking in to tell you that we are investigating to see if we can find an issue here.

Thank you Thoon!

While investigating pleas throw in a stealth 30% speed increase...its ok...dont tell us and it will be fine

I can only think of one person who would complain about this... I, however, would be all for it!

[Aesop]

We keep hoping. Ever think it will actually happen?

Maybe someday... I just hope it isn't too late

[Thoon]

Looking at this internally, we aren't seeing that Haste or Alacrity bonuses are not increasing the rate of fire as they should

But I don't want to just ignore the issue. Can someone please post what you are currently seeing on Lamannia (once the servers are back up), with particular items added? Let me know the character levels and general enhancements (AA or not).

Thanks,

Thoon

[heyytoi]

As per this thread...

A few more tests later (lvl 20 Arcane Archer, 20 BAB, AA capstone):

Lamannia
55 shots/min (AA capstone)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + black dragon armor)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver + black dragon armor)

Live server
65 shots/min (AA capstone)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + black dragon armor)
70-71 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver + black dragon armor)

It has to be a bug and not a nerf seeing how on Lamannia there is just one result all across the board.

hmm, i dont think that abbot quiver + black dragon armor stacks, and since AA capstone and AA set are both competence bonus i dont think they stack either

so i dont understand how you can get 2-3 more shot when you have all that stuff equiped

[Kromize]

hmm, i dont think that abbot quiver + black dragon armor stacks, and since AA capstone and AA set are both competence bonus i dont think they stack either

so i dont understand how you can get 2-3 more shot when you have all that stuff equiped

According to the results, I would assume that the capstone, AA set, and the abbot quiver stack(quiver & armor don't, apparently). For sure we know that the capstone stack with all of them, and 2 of [AA set, quiver, armor] don't stack.

So, with all equipped, you get the extra one that stacks...

[Kromize]

Looking at this internally, we aren't seeing that Haste or Alacrity bonuses are not increasing the rate of fire as they should

But I don't want to just ignore the issue. Can someone please post what you are currently seeing on Lamannia (once the servers are back up), with particular items added? Let me know the character levels and general enhancements (AA or not).

Thanks,

Thoon

You mean it's not a:

[ryingar]

Just from a common sense point of view, a nerf of this magnitude would completey gimp archers to the point of complete obscurity. It has to be a bug.

they aren't gimped now? when did that happen?

[Mjoll]

hmm, i dont think that abbot quiver + black dragon armor stacks, and since AA capstone and AA set are both competence bonus i dont think they stack either

so i dont understand how you can get 2-3 more shot when you have all that stuff equiped

I'm not exactly sure why I got that result but I can speculate... The AA set has a secret bonus that activates only when using the AA set with either the quiver or the black dragon armor. I'll do more tests tomorrow (capstone + AA set + quiver, capstone + AA set + black armor, capstone + quiver + black armor) and I'll see if I can confirm or not this speculation.

[Glenalth]

I've got a thread over in the Ranger forum for compiling ranged speed test results on the live servers. It seems like people go 50/50 on whether or not capstone & AA set stack, so I'd like to figure out why people get different results.

[Mjoll]

More tests from Thelanis:



65 shots/min (AA capstone)

68 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + black dragonhide armor)
68 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver + black dragonhide armor)

71 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver)
71 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + black dragonhide armor)
71 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver + black dragonhide armor)



Notes:
* I'm a level 20 AA elven ranger, BAB 20.
* I used a plain composite longbow bought from the Hammer and Chain harbor vendor.
* Shots/min = firing animations and not arrows fired, I was lazy and used arcane arrows
* There certainly is an undocumented hidden bonus for the AA set.

@Glenalth
I'm not sure if these tests are of any use to you, I used a different procedure than the one you are using.

[Mjoll]

Looking at this internally, we aren't seeing that Haste or Alacrity bonuses are not increasing the rate of fire as they should

But I don't want to just ignore the issue. Can someone please post what you are currently seeing on Lamannia (once the servers are back up), with particular items added? Let me know the character levels and general enhancements (AA or not).

Thanks,

Thoon

What I saw on Lamannia a few minutes ago (level 20 AA elven ranger, BAB 20)...

55 shots/min (AA capstone)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + black dragonhide armor)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + abbot quiver + black dragonhide armor)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + black dragonhide armor)
55 shots/min (AA capstone + AA set + abbot quiver + black dragonhide armor)

Which translates into a 15.5%-22.5% RoF loss compared to the RoF from the live servers.

For each firing animation there is a pause, short but noticeable, after loading an arrow and drawing the bow and before firing the arrow, pause that is not there on the live servers.

Also can you confirm if there is a hidden bonus or not for the AA set?

[Jacoby]

Tried to check it out but didn't copy my Archer over, out of spots to do so. I did get the 68 shots per minute on Argo with capstone and Black Dragon Armor.

[andbr22]

Yup - tested on both (didn't payed attention earlier for this)

20 lv ranger (AA) + Capstone
about 55 arrows/min on Lamnia
about 65 arrows/min on Khyber (capstone only)

Could any 20 BAB warrior (or Barbarian) grab bow and test his speed on Lamnia and on "normal" server.

Maybe the problem is that none of speed bonusses apply on Lamnia (don't forget rapid shoot).
And yes -> there is slight break betwen reload your bow and shoot arrow on Lamnia.

[Coldin]

And yes -> there is slight break betwen reload your bow and shoot arrow on Lamnia.

I think this might be the problem. I was doing some testing, and the reloading definitely increases when I use haste and Divine Power (my archer is a bard). But it did seem like there was always a bit of a pause from loading the bow and firing. That would be enough to cause a significant slow down.

[Glenalth]

@Glenalth
I'm not sure if these tests are of any use to you, I used a different procedure than the one you are using.

The 100 arrows instead of just 60 seconds gives more room for error. Being off in counting by 1 arrow at 60 seconds vs 90-100 seconds can throw things off more. It also encourages new tests instead of just using old numbers.

The tests on live also have the goal of figuring out exactly what stacks and why/when since there are reports on both sides for alacrity/AA set stacking.

[Glenalth]

At this point it's pretty much confirmed that there is an issue with at least the animations on Lammania.

Has anyone counted actual arrows fired during that time to see if it's just some sort of sync issue?