Devs, Concordant Opposition Bugged????

[Bloodhaven]

Edit for Reading comprehension fail!

[BurningDownTheHouse]

So what you are saying is "This is what I think and there is no supporting documentation" ?

Yep, that's what he says.
Doesn't change the fact that he is probably spot on, though...

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Edit for Reading comprehension fail!

Haha!!!!
It will remain here for posterity (one post up)

[Vhlad]

For debate on the matter, please use this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=236478

I do not want this thread to fill up with arguments or tests. I know what the results are, I know now what currently stacks, I resurrected this thread to ask the devs some direct questions.

Please please please take all your arguments, nitpicking, and uninformed inquiries to the thread already being used for that purpose here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=236478

...It was actually buffed, not nerfed.

It was changed. If you had 4 shroud conc opp accessories at 1% each under the expectation that all would stack based on eladrins post in this thread, then you are expecting ~4% total. At present state, with the accessories not stacking, if indeed the proc rate was raised to 2%, you would expect a net loss of 2%; i.e. a relative nerf. If however you only had 1 accessory to begin with, then under these conditions it would be a buff.

But shade, please, I dont want to debate this with you. I'll change my wording to make you happy.

I think everyone wants a direct answer from the devs:

When was this changed?
Why was it changed?
Why wearn't we told it was changed?

Are you going to change it again?
Are you going to allow us to deconstruct our useless items that we spent years crafting to get our ingredients back?
Are you going to allow us to get our wasted essences back, that we grinded 20 shrouds each and gave up a +3 tome each to obtain?

It was implied in this post that these would stack:

A 5% proc rate would be extremely imbalancing if you wore eight of them.

Based on the information we had at the time, and based on testing done over a year ago, it became widespread belief that all shroud guards (conc opp items included) stacked. The devs were silent while this belief led to many players wasting their items, their time, their +3 tomes, their essences, all to craft things that did nothing. Why?

Devs, do you have any idea how discouraging this is for those who grinded the items? You explain stacking mechanics of concealment here:

Only the most powerful concealment effect applies. There is one bug (that I just fixed locally) where incorporeal miss chance was misclassified as a concealment effect.

And verify it here:

What he said. :-)

Since you're willing to answer concealment stacking, why have you been so silent about the true stacking mechanics of shroud guards?

Finally, to be as constructive as possible, here's how to fix it for the players who feel slighted:
Add a new crafting recipe:
place into the altar: 1 shroud accessory guard of type X + 1 shroud accessory guard of type X (i.e. two shroud accessories whose name is identical; i.e. lightning gloves + lightning boots, or conc opp goggles + conc opp boots)
Then hit crunch. Both items poof, and you receive: any and all taint cleansing essences used.
That's enough for me. If you want to add the return of raw ingredients as well, I'm sure it would make other players happy.

[Bloodhaven]

moving to the other thread on this topic

[Vhlad]

moving to the other thread on this topic

Omg thank you. I owe you positive rep. I won't forget!

[Shade]

I'll change my wording to make you happy.

It's not about being happy, it's about being informed. I was just making sure you understood the facts and logic of the thread.

It seems you can not, but that doesn't effect my thoughts or opinion either way.

[Ota]

Some months later, Eladrin confirmed with Piloto the items did not stack,

is there a link to this conversation cause i never heard of this

[Bloodhaven]

Haha!!!!
It will remain here for posterity (one post up)

yea I did not read some of the other posts in this thread, Can you believe i got a ton of neg rep for those edits? They were only up for what 2 minutes? that to me means i got neg rep after the edits.. go figure.

[MRH]

2mins - ton of neg rep..... were you wearing shoes and socks, with your tshirt? Cause i heard the tshirt proc's differently than it does when wearing both shoes and socks. lol

Did you notice if the neg reps proc'd at the same time? SS plz LOL or did they neg proc at their own % to proc?


lmao just had to

oh and....

(combat) RC strikes you with shoe attack
(combat) You recieve +1 rep from your shoes

[Vhlad]

Clear, 720p resolution, video evidence of conc opp accessories not stacking:

Location: Deleras part 1, casual, 4 skeleton archers

First video:
No DR (shown in character window)
1 conc item (benefit shown in combat log when equipped)
6/1701 mana at 00:50
1550/1701 mana at 9:47
Summary: 1544 mana gained in 8:57 with 1 conc opp accessory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOcnX3Ss-24

Second video:
No DR (shown in character window)
3 conc items (benefit shown in combat log for each one when equipped)
1/1701 mana at 00:53
1531/1701 mana at 9:49
Summary: 1530 mana gained in 8:56 with 3 conc opp accessories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEBHWRBTk8Y

[smatt]

Are you going to unnerf it?

Not likely, since it was never nerfed.

Are you going to allow us to deconstruct our useless items that we spent years crafting to get our ingredients back?

Not likely

Are you going to allow us to get our wasted essences back, that we grinded 20 shrouds each and gave up a +3 tome each to obtain?

LOL

[Eladrin]

No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers. (Actions that were taken partially in response to this very thread.)

As a generally applicable rule, "guard" effects do not stack with themselves.
Temporary Hit Point guards typically trigger On Successful Hit, while Spell Point guards trigger On Damage, which explains the differences seen in proc rates.

[Gol]

No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers. (Actions that were taken partially in response to this very thread.)

As a generally applicable rule, "guard" effects do not stack with themselves.
Temporary Hit Point guards typically trigger On Successful Hit, while Spell Point guards trigger On Damage, which explains the differences seen in proc rates.

So, what you're saying is...

Multiple Conc items do not proc independently of each other, and it would be a complete waste to have 2 identical Conc Opp items equipped.

[Borror0]

No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers.

Were those changes mentioned in any release notes?

[Chelsa]

In the future, it would be a good idea to mention such changes in the release notes.

Mention what? They never changed how the items worked but increased the proc rate. A benefit to the players but still only a minor adjustment.

[Samadhi]

So, what you're saying is...

Multiple Conc items do not proc independently of each other, and it would be a complete waste to have 2 identical Conc Opp items equipped.

That's the way it sounds...

which as an interesting sidenote, makes it sound like, possibly, a weapon stacking with an accessory would potentially be a bug.

Clarification would be awesome - I have piles of these things made ><

Thanks for finally stopping in though El

[Borror0]

Mention what? They never changed how the items worked but increased the proc rate. A benefit to the players but still only a minor adjustment.

Making an item more than four times more powerful is not "a minor adjustment."

[Chelsa]

Making an item more than four times more powerful is not "a minor adjustment."

For me it is minor, but I am sure you will all argue the subject to death. Should be fun to watch.

[Vhlad]

No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers. (Actions that were taken partially in response to this very thread.)

As a generally applicable rule, "guard" effects do not stack with themselves.
Temporary Hit Point guards typically trigger On Successful Hit, while Spell Point guards trigger On Damage, which explains the differences seen in proc rates.

Thank you for the reply. I have 3 more questions, if you please:

#1
When (or before) piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, did he (or anyone else) also change the way these items stacked?

#2
Currently, Concordant Opposition guards on weapons stack with themselves. Will this be changed?

#3
The first 2x shroud guards of the same type crafted on 1 character were a weapon + accessory, as this could be done on a shorter timescale (it does not require a cleansing essence). When people saw "guard" effects from the weapon & accessory stack, they assumed (with the help of your first post in this thread) that all crafted "guard" effects would stack. Since there has been no clear answer from the devs regarding the mechanics here for the past 2 years, are there any plans to offer item deconstruction for the people who made multiple accessory guards of the same type?