Roaring Vs Improved Roaring

[Valindria]

"Roaring - This weapon causes targets to become shaken and, on critical hit, does 2d6 sonic damage to the target."
Example: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ylansBlade.jpg

The Improved Roaring weapon seems to have the same description. Both do shaken on hit and 2d6 on criticals.

Does anyone know what the improved does?

[...v...]

"Roaring - This weapon causes targets to become shaken and, on critical hit, does 2d6 sonic damage to the target."
Example: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ylansBlade.jpg

The Improved Roaring weapon seems to have the same description. Both do shaken on hit and 2d6 on criticals.

Does anyone know what the improved does?

kind of like toilet paper or bathroom tissue.

[Valindria]

Is there a DC with the shaken effect? Because Improved Cursespew improves the Curse DC...

Or could it be an improved version of shaken (i.e. -4 instead of -2)

I was hoping someone knew.

[moops]

I am woman, hear me Roar? RAWR!

[Tyrande]

I have an improved roaring rapier on my rogue and went to the desert to test it. It deals a -4 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks to monsters on every hit once per monster, no save. Perhaps, this is good for epic dungeons in additional to the improved destruction weapons?

[Valindria]

I have an improved roaring rapier on my rogue and went to the desert to test it. It deals a -4 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks to monsters on every hit once per monster, no save. Perhaps, this is good for epic dungeons in additional to the improved destruction weapons?

Thank you.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I have an improved roaring rapier on my rogue and went to the desert to test it. It deals a -4 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks to monsters on every hit once per monster, no save. Perhaps, this is good for epic dungeons in additional to the improved destruction weapons?

Seriously? So this is FAR better than a Cursespewer! Curse gives a -4 penalty to attack rolls, skill rolls and saves but the enemy can make a save for the curse whereas this version of Shaken from Improved Roaring has no save?

Very nice, I'm gonna need to check this myself. Just bought a cheap Improved Roaring falchion of Enfeebling, 15-20 on a crit, looking even better if every hit effectively curses them.

[Turial]

"Roaring - This weapon causes targets to become shaken and, on critical hit, does 2d6 sonic damage to the target."
Example: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ylansBlade.jpg

The Improved Roaring weapon seems to have the same description. Both do shaken on hit and 2d6 on criticals.

Does anyone know what the improved does?

Easiest way to test is to take a friend down to a brawl area and hit them a few times. Makes sense that it would provide a greater debuff to mobs though.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Can anyone test whether this stacks with regular Roaring and/or Cursespewing?

[MrCow]

Can anyone test whether this stacks with regular Roaring and/or Cursespewing?

• Improved Roaring causes shaken, a -2 morale penalty to to-hit, saves, and skills (the description was a poor copy and paste, it is a -2 penalty, not -4 penalty, although they may have put the improper number for the actual penalty amount as well).
  
• Shaken should not stack with shaken. Regardless, Improved Roaring's Shaken stacks with standard Roaring's Shaken.
  
• Shaken is not a curse, thus it stacks with Cursespewing.
  
• Improved Roaring's shaken effect allows a reoccurring save to shrug off due to its duration (as it lasts longer than the standard 6-12 seconds for shaken, it has a maximum duration of 1 minute).
  
• The Improved Roaring effect neglects to mention that it requires a DC will save (DC 28 if I remember, but I'm not certain).
  
• This is also a fear effect so it falters heavily in places like Shavarath where critters get a large bonus vs. fear and mind afflictions.

[suitepotato]

• Improved Roaring causes shaken, a -2 morale penalty to to-hit, saves, and skills (the description was a poor copy and paste, it is a -2 penalty, not -4 penalty, although they may have put the improper number for the actual penalty amount as well).
  
• Shaken does not stack with shaken. Improved Roaring's Shaken won't stack with standard Roaring's Shaken.
  
• Shaken is not a curse, thus it stacks with Cursespewing.
  
• Improved Roaring's shaken effect allows a reoccurring save to shrug off due to its duration (as it lasts longer than the standard 6-12 seconds for shaken, it has a maximum duration of 1 minute).
  
• The Improved Roaring effect neglects to mention that it requires a DC will save (DC 28 if I remember, but I'm not certain).
  
• This is also a fear effect so it falters heavily in places like Shavarath where critters get a large bonus vs. fear and mind afflictions.

Excellent info. Perfect.

[Angelus_dead]

• This is also a fear effect so it falters heavily in places like Shavarath where critters get a large bonus vs. fear and mind afflictions.

Which also makes it completely worthless against bosses and undead, whereas Curses may eventually work.

[Arlith]

Excellent info. Perfect.

That's our Cow!

[Valindria]

My friend and I tested it in a bar brawl at some point. This was awhile ago. I had a Improved Roaring Rapier and an improved cursespewing rapier equipped. They 2 effects do stack. I am pretty sure he said he had a -8 total to saves. I sent him an email asking if he remembers the same thing as me. Roaring has the advantage of more damage on crits, but some monsters are immune to the shaken effect. I still have a roaring short sword and the improved roaring rapier so if I get a chance I will test them out again.

[MrCow]

Ok, I did some further testing on Roaring and other associated debuff effects (in PvP):

Roaring:
-2 to Saves and Skills
DC 25 Will Save
Fear Effect
1 minute duration

Improved Roaring:
-2 to Saves and Skills
DC 28 Will Save
Fear Effect
1 minute duration
Reoccuring 6 second save

Cursespewing:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
DC 15 Will save
1 minute duration

Improved Cursespewing:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
DC 20 Will save
1 minute duration

Bestow Curse:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
Permanent

Doom:
-2 to Saves and Skills
Fear Effect

Bane:
-1 to To-Hit and Saves vs. Fear

Fear (Shaken):
-2 to Saves and Skills
Fear Effect
6 second duration

Fear (Fear):
-0 to Saves and Skills
Incapable of Action
Fear Effect

And for some reason, they all stack.



Picture proof with a punching dummy:

Base (Will save at 8)
Add Improved Cursespewing (Will save at 4)
Add Cursespewing (Will save at 0)
Add Roaring (Will save at -2)
Add Improved Roaring (Will save at -4)
Add Bestow Curse (Will save at -8)
Add Doom (Will save at -10)
Add Bane (Will save at -10, -11 on fear effects in the next screenshot)
Add Fear [non-shaken] (Will save at -10, 11 on fear effects)

[Grendyll]

Ok, I did some further testing on Roaring and other associated debuff effects (in PvP):

Roaring:
-2 to Saves and Skills
DC 25 Will Save
Fear Effect
1 minute duration

Improved Roaring:
-2 to Saves and Skills
DC 28 Will Save
Fear Effect
1 minute duration
Reoccuring 6 second save

Cursespewing:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
DC 15 Will save
1 minute duration

Improved Cursespewing:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
DC 20 Will save
1 minute duration

Bestow Curse:
-4 to To-Hit, Saves, and Skills
Permanent

Doom:
-2 to Saves and Skills
Fear Effect

Bane:
-1 to To-Hit and Saves vs. Fear

Fear (Shaken):
-2 to Saves and Skills
Fear Effect
6 second duration

Fear (Fear):
-0 to Saves and Skills
Incapable of Action
Fear Effect

And for some reason, they all stack.



Picture proof with a punching dummy:

Base (Will save at 8)
Add Improved Cursespewing (Will save at 4)
Add Cursespewing (Will save at 0)
Add Roaring (Will save at -2)
Add Improved Roaring (Will save at -4)
Add Bestow Curse (Will save at -8)
Add Doom (Will save at -10)
Add Bane (Will save at -10, -11 on fear effects in the next screenshot)
Add Fear [non-shaken] (Will save at -10, 11 on fear effects)

MrCow,

Did you test Improved Roaring without Roaring already in place? In the screen shot, the chat text claims that Imp. Roaring is -4. Is it possible that it is truly -4 but doesn't stack with Roaring (if Roaring was already applied for -2, then Imp. Roaring would take it a further -2 for a -4 total, but non-stacking)? Did verify the DC of the Roaring effects by testing many times to find the point where you made v. failed the save?

[MrCow]

Did you test Improved Roaring without Roaring already in place?

Yep, Improved Roaring is a -2 penalty and I found that by ensuring it was the sole effect (no Roaring on the punching bag).

[Valindria]

First of thank you for testing this. I have a few questions.

1. The shaken effect does not do a penalty to hit? Or is it non stacking with the curse penalty?

"Notes: Monsters that suceed there save still become shaken. Which imposes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. This can cause any subsequent attempts to fear to be more likely to suceed."

Source: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Fear

Granted that is a player entry, but it should be fixed if in accurate.

2. How did you determine the Roaring DCs?

3. Is it safe to assume the pvp results will be the same in PvE? (i.e. stacking curses)

4. The Reoccuring 6 second save on Improved Roaring is just to extend the duration? What I mean is if they save, does it get rid of the effect or after the duration its done?

Thanks.

[MrCow]

The shaken effect does not do a penalty to hit? Or is it non stacking with the curse penalty?

Currently, it appears shaken is not granting a penalty to to-hit (even though the description says so).

How did you determine the Roaring DCs?

I hit the punching bag bard until I had the following lines:

(Combat): You attempt to save versus shaken. You roll a 18 (+6): save failure!
(Combat): You attempt to save versus shaken. You roll a 19 (+6): save!

Is it safe to assume the pvp results will be the same in PvE? (i.e. stacking curses)

No, not always. For instance, monsters can not suffer penalties or bonuses to skills.

The Reoccuring 6 second save on Improved Roaring is just to extend the duration? What I mean is if they save, does it get rid of the effect or after the duration its done?

If they save on the reoccurring save then the effect is removed early.

[Aurochys]

Thanks Cow for the effort and concise test results. Very helpful!