Why the rush to elite?

[SINIBYTE]

Why are people so insistent on running elite right off the bat? I'm not referring to people 3+ levels above the quest running it for favor or loot, I mean people that *should* be running in normal because the quest is already 2-3 levels above them. Seems lately, every single group I get in, people are immediately (sometimes without any knowledge of the quest) ready to say "elite???", knowing that it will be more difficult, likely casuing XP loss (or perhaps less XP gain as it were), and a general rough run... I've been building n/n/h/e groups lately.. running level 8 quests while my group is level 6, and everyones instantly like "why are we running on normal?! we can do elite!".

[Cedwin]

Because they want to complete it on elite for max favor, so they can get more turbine points, to buy more content. Simple as that.

Back in the day of all subscription based players, we were only worried about maxing XP, the F2P players are mostly worried about maxing favor for free TP.

[Zenako]

epeeen...

No one wants to admit to all the "noobs" around them that they are merely good enough to run Hard or heaven forbid, only normal. .... YOu see, everyone is special and that is the message too many people have been getting for too many years. Special people should be able to handle Elite. If you can't that must mean you suck as a player and a person, which is why so many have a hard time accepting that.

It also displays an almost complete lack of game play knowledge and how the settings will adversely affect completion time.

One possible excuse however is that those players are trying to grab as much favor as possible for the Turbine Point payoffs to fund something else they want. That is the likely explanation for the metric ton of LFM's (mostly in General) for the Vile Apothecary quest and its 15 favor on elite.

[Linenoise2]

epeeen...

No one wants to admit to all the "noobs" around them that they are merely good enough to run Hard or heaven forbid, only normal. .... YOu see, everyone is special and that is the message too many people have been getting for too many years. Special people should be able to handle Elite. If you can't that must mean you suck as a player and a person, which is why so many have a hard time accepting that.

It also displays an almost complete lack of game play knowledge and how the settings will adversely affect completion time.

One possible excuse however is that those players are trying to grab as much favor as possible for the Turbine Point payoffs to fund something else they want. That is the likely explanation for the metric ton of LFM's (mostly in General) for the Vile Apothecary quest and its 15 favor on elite.

Indeed. Prior to F2P you were hard pressed to find many groups for 'Proof...'. Now not a day goes by that I do not see atleast a couple of these groups.

I've gone F2P but still do not bother with that quest. While TP is great, I still live by the idea of maximizing my time to xp ratio. Any TP I get from all that is cherry, but I'll happily buy TP (because I can) and dedicate my playing time to gathering XP (which I can't buy...yet).

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I wondered what the deal was with all of these new players doing quests way over-diffed.

I attributed it to them not knowing what they could/could not handle.

I didn't think about the TP thing.

Anyway, if you are in the right state-of-mind, join one of those elite Vile Apothecary runs. You'll be doing /facepalms after the first room. Or, elite Taming The Flames. Sure to cook your goose.

[BlackSteel]

if you got the star then the easy thing to say is

"i'd rather do 2 or 3 quick normal runs for exp than one long run on elite"

yes elite has its benefits, but for exp/min at most levels and most quests its better to do the n/n/n/h/e route.

also in most pug, I'd much rather do norm or hard first so i can judge the other party members. If two or three people arent contributing on normal, why would u consider to bring them to an elite run?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Because their guild has a Shroud run scheduled for Saturday.

[Phantomizer]

Can't say i've actually noticed that, maybe i've passed it right by and never noticed.

But as far as i go, if it's a brand new quest i've never run, i usually like to run it on normal or MAYBE hard, but never elite right off the bat, unless it's a very low lvl quest i didn't get to do earlier on, like maybe a base lvl 4 quest at lvl 10? However, runs of n/n/n/h/e don't neccessarily pay off much as by the time you hit h/e you'll be getting XP penalties for repeating the quest too many times, unless maybe it's a quest like Tear of Dhakaan and even than, the XP isn't THAT great when the extra 25% and on elite, 50% for the first time isn't around.

Going in on quests that are the same lvl as you (i.e your lvl 10, quest's base lvl 8 and thus elite bumps it up to 10) is sometimes even difficult if not downright impossible. I did Faithful departed 2 days ago on my barb, lvl 11....got a group together consisting of lvls 9-11, you'ld think it would be easy.....it wasn't.

As for Taming The Flames....errrr...not happening, at least not while i'm low enough to actually care about the XP it gives, i already gave up and resorted to doing a quick run later on, i'm not a fan of quick runs, but by than the whole idea of optionals, conquest, ransack, etc won't matter much as the whole point will be the favor. I say that quest should be patched to at LEAST be base lvl 11 or 12....that way, elite as it is, becomes lvl 14, maybe than the quest would be better suited to a group around lvls 13-15.

[Schmoe]

Alternative explanation:

Some people, especially new people who haven't done everything 200 times, are enjoying the experience and don't give a rat's ass about XP/hour. They also like a challenge and enjoy seeing if they can pull through difficult encounters.

[dasein18]

Alternative explanation:

Some people, especially new people who haven't done everything 200 times, are enjoying the experience and don't give a rat's ass about XP/hour. They also like a challenge and enjoy seeing if they can pull through difficult encounters.

It is great if new players do want to play this way. Depending on the the day I want to take my time.. other days.. since I have run some of this quest so many times.. just want to burn through XP to level a toon to get on... To each their own. Communicate your expectations if they do not match up nothing wrong with dropping group.

[Schmoe]

It is great if new players do want to play this way. Depending on the the day I want to take my time.. other days.. since I have run some of this quest so many times.. just want to burn through XP to level a toon to get on... To each their own. Communicate your expectations if they do not match up nothing wrong with dropping group.

I definitely agree with that. People should be clear when they are forming a group what kind of experience they want. Different people want wildly different things from quests, so a little communication goes a long way toward avoiding disappointment.

[Emili]

Indeed. Prior to F2P you were hard pressed to find many groups for 'Proof...'. Now not a day goes by that I do not see atleast a couple of these groups.

I've gone F2P but still do not bother with that quest. While TP is great, I still live by the idea of maximizing my time to xp ratio. Any TP I get from all that is cherry, but I'll happily buy TP (because I can) and dedicate my playing time to gathering XP (which I can't buy...yet).

if you got the star then the easy thing to say is

"i'd rather do 2 or 3 quick normal runs for exp than one long run on elite"

yes elite has its benefits, but for exp/min at most levels and most quests its better to do the n/n/n/h/e route.

also in most pug, I'd much rather do norm or hard first so i can judge the other party members. If two or three people arent contributing on normal, why would u consider to bring them to an elite run?

LOL Proof is in the poison…

… and so, there I was standing in the Phoenix about to log off for the night, Ailiae (my then FvS 4 / Monk 1) when bloody out of nowhere come a tell – “I know you’re not a main healer but can come heal some for us?” Tell – “we been looking for someone for near an hour.” Now then, I do not even know these people and she really is not a healer but the plea to help and the soft spot in my heart told me go while common sense nagged at me otherwise… yet despite my womans intuition and logical reasoning my sensitivity won out.

The party… A 6th level pally(leader), 5th level rogue, 4th level rogue, 4th level wizard and my 4th FvS/1st Monk. So there we was standing in front of “Poison” as the party leader asks party “Elite?” and they all respond positively… I yell “STOP! If you’re bloody opening elite off me and I the only one ever done this quest before you’ve no clue what hardship you’re ‘bout to unlesh.” Again my intuition urges “Run RUN AWAY!” but the beg and plea pulling my strings then tied me still. I agreed … thus went and bought more wands and house P buffed and adised them of the same if they could…

In quest… I told them point blank will be an array of grease, MM and constant acid spells tossed about us. Please take it slow and casters above all must die first. There is a major trap on the bridge right before us… and please let me buff you whenever you are not, and the only shrine is a long way off nearly halfway through the quest, shall someone die will be a difficult task getting there. We managed to get past the bridge with but a few resources but after that point the party’s behavior changed over time … they became riskier and taxed my abilities more and more… ultimately one dying in the split hall before the shrine… as the quest went on things got to the point where I would heal as could and when they toppled down to nought… I’d clean up the left over mobs, retrieve their stones and take them back to the shrine. Despite my efforts to curtail their recklessness … I found myself in such repeative action at least three or four times.

Ultimately and thru bloody much perserverance we arrived at the boss – none of them had seen a scarrow before and were in awe… fortunately the end fight went well and the quest complete.

They were inspired with my savy, my melee and my survival and asked me of my build… I told them point straight… “be not the bloody build but what you know about the build and playing it makes it so.” Funny, two of the four who entered that quest with me – are now my guildies, They asked me so and I sent the invite – why? Well likewise I be impressed, You see be it was their bloody persistence on quest and their hunger for the game I could feel pulsating thru them… a little knowledge and some polishin’ and they be more than fine heroes.

[Twerpp]

I like running normal, hard, then elite when I level. No rush to open elite. On a good normal and hard run you can help anyone new, unprepared, or just get a good refresher if its been a while because I'll admit I am not the kind of guy with every quest detail memorized unless its a favorite of mine. Then usually any group can smash elite afterwards, even if they originally would have been smashed. This is the way to do it.

I've been in so many groups that should have done it this way but theres always some little turd insisting on elite when you could easily tell he should be a little more humble. Just a hide-tanner with something to prove...in a video game lol. "Can we open elite? I want elite, we need an elite opener, elite? Elite. Elite.I'm elite." LOL shut up already who cares. Its usually someone with a good grasp of the game but still their first time through, patience young grasshoppa!

[Sigava]

As a F2P person working on buying my way out of the game (spent about 100 bucks on TP deals and am subscribing for just this month to clean up old favor), I can tell you the 2 reasons I want to do quests through elite.

1) Favor for unlocking 32 pt builds.
2) Favor for turbine points.

My duoing friend and I got to about 1500 favor around level 15 (we've both bought cats, tangleroot, deleras, sorrowdusk, sands, GH, Vail, Warforged, Monk, and still have around 5k TP left to pick up Devils when it next goes on sale), and were bumping into a favor wall just duoing. We needed either 1) to find people who actually built a decent toon and aren't complete idiots in order to do some of the harder quests/raids on hard/elite, or 2) to subscribe for a month to go back and clean up the elite favor from STK, Sharn, three barrel, necro, VoN, threnal. As trying to find competent players looking to pug the most challenging dungeons in the level 12-16 range is almost impossible on Sarlona, we subscribed for a month (then canceled soon as they gave us the TP for a month's subscription) and easily whipped through the remaining TP to unlock 32 point builds.

Now we get to reroll our 28 pt lowbie alts to better builds to duo with and run with a casual friend of ours, and are well on our way to having functionally purchased the entire game for around 100 bucks, or 7 months of subscription fees. We even have enough TP for the occasional frill as we go along like an extra character slot here or there, or a Huge quiver, stuff that amounts to a permanent increase to our account or character rather than stupid, wasteful nonsense like a +3 shortsword (oooooo!) or those scams Siberys Spirit Cakes (I'd be willing to bet those cakes have made the company 10,000+ dollars alone).

The difference: We know what we can handle just the two of us, and we neither foist ourselves on groups we'd be a burden to nor accept dead weight. Quite frankly, it's easier for us to duo most elite dungeons than it is to get through a normal dungeon with a 6 man pick up group, because most of the F2P people have no concept of a: how to build a decent character, b: how to equip/play their character to perform its primary role(s), c: what essentials to have in their bags (greater resist cloaks anyone?), d: how to be self sufficient (OMG I took 10 damage why won't you top me off?!?!?), or e: how to play, I.E. when the whole group is going one way, don't run off the other direction.

Long story short, every F2P wants the tasty favor rewards, but almost none of them are willing to put ANY effort in to educating themselves about how to play the game, how to prepare for challenging content, how to function within a group, or even basic etiquette.

Hijack: If any established Sarlona guilds/static groups are looking for a couple of players willing to put in the work to learning raids and properly gearing themselves (only so much you can learn about a raid from reading), please pop me a private message. We're starting to get the itch to do some of the raids, and are starting to collect shroud ingredients.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Too make matters even worse....a lot of new players do not even realize that a level 4 quest on normal is no longer level 4 on elite. Even the ones that do realize that the quest scales by one for each difficulty furthermore do not realize the monster CR's typically scale +2 for hard and +5 for elite.

Example.....Harbor Shamans are CR 1 in normal setting quests, by the time u get to that same quest on elite they are CR 5 or 6....even tho the quest has only scaled by two for loot purposes only

I find myself solo'ing a lot.

[zealous]

Can't say i've actually noticed that, maybe i've passed it right by and never noticed.

But as far as i go, if it's a brand new quest i've never run, i usually like to run it on normal or MAYBE hard, but never elite right off the bat, unless it's a very low lvl quest i didn't get to do earlier on, like maybe a base lvl 4 quest at lvl 10? However, runs of n/n/n/h/e don't neccessarily pay off much as by the time you hit h/e you'll be getting XP penalties for repeating the quest too many times, unless maybe it's a quest like Tear of Dhakaan and even than, the XP isn't THAT great when the extra 25% and on elite, 50% for the first time isn't around.

You don't get repetition penalty the first couple of times you do a quest. You also don't get a repetition penalty the first time you do any given difficulty.

Doing n/n/n/h/e/s you get all the first time bonuses and 2 normals without any repetition penalty.

Doing n/h/e/n/n will net you repetition penalty though.

Some quests are worth running some 8 times on you're difficulty of choice before going for the other two difficulties, no repetition penalty the for the other difficulties.

[Fridas]

It's funny, I have really noticed this in the last few days as well, the new thing for groups is to post "elite opener". I run n/n/n/h/e, xp is most important to me and loot second. To be fair I do buy points if I need to, so I can understand those who like to grind for favor.

I really wonder if it is because I played pnp dnd for years, and that really teaches you to appreciate xp and crave loot, at least it did me. Maybe the ones who don't care about xp and want favor to buy 32pt builds just don't have that background of dnd or are just used to playing in a powergamer way of getting to be uber as quick as you can.

JMO

[Sigava]

I really wonder if it is because I played pnp dnd for years, and that really teaches you to appreciate xp and crave loot, at least it did me. Maybe the ones who don't care about xp and want favor to buy 32pt builds just don't have that background of dnd or are just used to playing in a powergamer way of getting to be uber as quick as you can.

JMO

I'm a lonnnnng time pnp player as well, and certainly appreciate the loot and XP aspect of repeating low difficulty modes that are extremely rewarding. But I also, and this comes from my pnp experience as well, LOVE building characters. I've sat for hours at a time crafting theoretical pnp characters that were unlikely ever to see play time. It's one of the reasons I'm enjoying DDO so much (let me tell you, it's not the bug-free gaming experience or the amazing customer service to be sure - or the 6+ hour website maintenance keeping me from getting into the game itself), namely conceptualizing, planning out, leveling up and customizing characters.

While I played up some and enjoyed a few alts over the past several months, I didn't want to get TOO involved with them until I'd unlocked 32 pt builds by getting to 1750 favor on my server, because I knew I'd end up rerolling them anyway. So for me it has been kind of an initial blitz to 1750 favor in order to be able to play up and enjoy more alts with some more build points. Sure, it's easy to build an effective caster or 2 handed barbarian with 28 point builds, but some of the more interesting, tricky, and end-game excelling builds almost require 32 point builds.

[captain1z]

I was in a group the other dayand we had run 2 quests prior. In each of the previous quests the group kept dying and I was the onegrabbing stones and killing off the mobs.... basicly soloing wit a buncha ghosts around me, thei happened repeatedly. So when we got to the 3rd quest more of the same kept happening and players were pushing me "kill this" "kill that" "you go first".

So when we got to the end boss I fought him down to 10% of his life while the others hung back and ranged and I got the feeling they werent doing any damage....... so I stopped fighting and took cover.

They said to me "what are you doing kill it"

I said "No. Ive killed everything and carried you guys though almost 3 quests, If you guys want to finish you kill this thing"

One guy says to me "but I cant touch it"

So I replied "then we have no business being here"

I waited a few minutes and one of them actually managed to kill it but after recalling that was the end of the group for me.

Felt like they just wanted the completion anyway they could get it and had no desire to contribute. I thought I would be doing the community a diservice by leveling those guys more than I had already.

[Twerpp]

I was in a group the other dayand we had run 2 quests prior. In each of the previous quests the group kept dying and I was the onegrabbing stones and killing off the mobs.... basicly soloing wit a buncha ghosts around me, thei happened repeatedly. So when we got to the 3rd quest more of the same kept happening and players were pushing me "kill this" "kill that" "you go first".

So when we got to the end boss I fought him down to 10% of his life while the others hung back and ranged and I got the feeling they werent doing any damage....... so I stopped fighting and took cover.

They said to me "what are you doing kill it"

I said "No. Ive killed everything and carried you guys though almost 3 quests, If you guys want to finish you kill this thing"

One guy says to me "but I cant touch it"

So I replied "then we have no business being here"

I waited a few minutes and one of them actually managed to kill it but after recalling that was the end of the group for me.

Felt like they just wanted the completion anyway they could get it and had no desire to contribute. I thought I would be doing the community a diservice by leveling those guys more than I had already.

Yep I have seen some prime examples of this, and goodnatured raid leaders are now carrying them through ToD when they should have been rerolling after getting only about as far as Madstone Crater and getting beat down.