Enough XP Available?

[nurmiw71]

Me and two of my friends are starting up a new party. The three of us have been playing for quite a long time, and want to try something a little bit different. So we plan to do what we're calling an "organic" campaign; we're trying to make it a little closer to P&P by enforcing the following rules on ourselves:

1. Only do each quest once and only once (on hard, since we can jump right to hard now, and we want to squeeze as much XP out of it as we can). In P&P, how many times do you repeat the same quest??? You don't, of course...so we don't plan to do this either.
2. Do all of the wilderness areas until we get all explorers and rare encounters. (may or may not max out slayers... depends on how badly we need the XP).
3. Not using the auction house. At all.
4. Can't leave Korthos until we finish the dragon quest. Can't leave the harber until we finish part two of the Water Works (OLD SCHOOD DDO!!!).
5. After some debate and infighting, we've decided that we CAN use the pawn brokers, both to buy and to sell. Obviously, can't do this until we finish WW2 to get access to the Marketplace.
6. Not trading with other players at all, outside of our group of 3.
7. Not questing with any other players, except for our group of 3.
8. The only time we quest separately will be to do solo only quests, once each. Otherwise, it's always the 3 of us questing together.
9. Also, we are getting rid of the Korthos set bonus items and a few similar items that are given away on Korthos now (eternal wands of xxx, for instance), as we feel that they are too powerful and unbalanced for a 1st/2nd level character to own. We may keep some eternal wands that are quest rewards later, but not at 1st/2nd level.
10. We will always level up at the first opportunity; not bonus experience by not leveling up. Only exception is that if we are in the middle of a quest chain that has us far away from a trainer, we'll continue the chain until we can return "home" to Stormreach. It seems more P&P to me to do it this way...

Cash is going to be tight. I've already been giving my loot to the Rogue to sell, since he's got a higher haggle...I hope he's not skimming some off the top...

We're pretty early on...just finished up Korthos and made it to Stormreach, and have done one or two quests in "the big city". It's been interesting so far. We're all on the lookout for +1 items of any kind. My wizard is still looking for a wand...of any kind! I just got my first crossbow too...pretty exciting! (BTW, why can't you buy a cross bow on Korthos???) If one of us opens a chest and finds a +1 (or even a masterwork item sometimes), we always ask if anyone in the group needs it. We'd KILL for some +2 items...

Any way, I'm finally to the point where I ask my question:

===> Will there be enough experience available for us to continue advancing, if we never repeat any of the quests?

We think there will be, but we're a little concerned that we might come a point where we're "stuck", and have to repeat some of the quests on ELITE in order to continue leveling up. FYI: We are all VIPs accounts, so all quests are available.

I know a year or two ago, before they added the mid-level Marketplace content and so on, and completing a quest one level below you was a -10%, and you didn't get the 10% bonus for no one dying and no one leaving the quest, that it probably wouldn't have worked, and we'd have to do some quests multiple times. Can it work now, though, with the extra XP available?

Anyone tried something similar lately to give me an idea?

Thanks!

[Sir_Chonas]

I'd think so, at least for the first levels (1-10). In the middle levels, I always hit a lull and end up rerunning some quests (delera's ususally).

[SpanishBlueEyes]

Cool idea btw. I hope it works out for ya'll but i dont know you answer but just wanted to comment on the cool idea.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I don't think there will be enough XP at high levels. Somewhere between 14-18 you will run out of quests.

[Sir_Chonas]

From 20 down you will have Reaver's Refuge, Vale of Twilight, Necropolis 4, the Demon Sands (on elite), and some of Gianthold. That's roughly 5 packs (though actually less since you'll be running hard) for levels 14-20. Quite impossible. However, if you treat certain quests with no definitive ending (devil assault) as ongoing defenses of Stormreach, you might be ok. . . something to consider.

[Renvar]

This will work for the short term, but you will not be able to cap the toon, I think. You will run into trouble after level 10. There's not enough content above level 12. Recently, in a True Resurrection thread, bobbyryan2 quoted base XP of all level 17-20 quests as 170k. (approximately). So, if you run on hard and get some good bonuses (Ransack, conquest, flawless, persistence) and have an XP pot on, you could conceivablly get this up to around 400-450k. To move from 17-20 you need 170k +180k +190k to get to level 20. That is 540k. So, even with perfect runs you are light on XP by quite a bit. And that still doesn't get you the last 200k to actually max XP.

I don't have the numbers on 14-16, but you face a similar problem. You've only got the 5 vale quests, the ascension flagging quests, and last two gianthold quests in that level range. And you need 450k xp. You need to be pulling 25-30k from each quest you run. And that's just not happening.

Sorry, but I think it will work well to level 12-13 and then you will probably hit a wall where re-running is needed.

EDIT: It is a cool idea, though. I've often wanted to do that as well. Make it more like PnP. I also chafe at the idea of re-running the same content over on the same character. But, lots of quests are so much fun, I don't mind too much.

[MysterX]

From 20 down you will have Reaver's Refuge, Vale of Twilight, Necropolis 4, the Demon Sands (on elite), and some of Gianthold. That's roughly 5 packs (though actually less since you'll be running hard) for levels 14-20. Quite impossible. However, if you treat certain quests with no definitive ending (devil assault) as ongoing defenses of Stormreach, you might be ok. . . something to consider.

I would second this notion... I can see how it doesn't make sense to rescue the same prisoners from a jail more than once, but some 'Defense' type quests might have a more open narrative where repeated attacks on a stronghold represent an ongoing war, rather than the same battle over and over again. It would even allow you to replay them on Elite, as if the enemy returned with a stronger force after being defeated.

[Goldeneye]

So far everyone has said it correctly.
Levels 1-9 will take you a very very long time, but it is do-able, however Level 12+ will get pretty difficult.

[Sir_Chonas]

Let's try and make a list of quests which could be conceivably repeatable (IE no definitive ending).

Stormcleave outpost is about giants opening rifts and stealing supply crates. This could be an ongoing recurrence.

Kobold Assault is kobolds running over a command outpost.

Devil Assault (See above, change devil for kobold).

Where there's smoke. Orcs are burning farms (recurring theme in most of DND).

Explorer Areas.

Any quest where you're asked to snuff out a cult/church of followers (purge the heretics, church and the cult) because these things tend to persist and grow stronger with martyrs.

A rainbow in the dark is about a light being turned out.

Invaders! is about things sneaking into the sewers (see stormcleave above about rifts).

Please add to this list DDO community, these are what I can think of off the top of my head.

[cwfergtx]

What is your groups thought on collectables? The mages and clerics can get wands by turning in certain collectables in the Harbor area , Market area and in House P. As well as pick up potions of Cure Light Wounds, Remove Blindness, Repair Light, and etc...

[Eladrin]

You will run into trouble after level 10.

There's actually an absolutely immense amount of experience out in the landscapes at the higher levels.

My quick calculations indicate that if you do every quest in the game exactly once on Normal difficulty, completing all of the optionals, that'll get you around 1.1 million of the 1.9 million XP necessary to hit cap. (Hard should get you a bit more.) As there's around 1.7 million XP out in the landscapes, it shouldn't be impossible to reach the cap. These are "back of the envelope" calculations that don't include things like the Voice of the Master.

Theoretically, one could level from 1-20 without ever stepping into a dungeon, except for one gap at level 5 (after completing Sorrowdusk's landscape), when you'll need ~67k XP so you can enter the Restless Isles/Ataraxia, and you'll be around 127k short from 1.9 million when you complete the Devil Battlefield. That's also not counting any repeat rares.

[Shamurai]

Great concept I love it!! Keep us posted how it's working out?

[Sir_Chonas]

Too late Eladrin . . . I already said explorer areas :-p

[Eelpout]

I also have a static group of 3. We don't play by the same restrictions, but we usually open quests on Hard and haven't gotten more than 15K xp from repeating quests. We are currently level 9 and haven't even really started to hit the level 7 and 8 quests with these characters. I don't think it will be a problem if you don't mind running level 15 quests at levels 17-18.

One of the devs even posted a while back, when the cap was 16, that it was possible to level cap by just running the explorer areas. It would be a pain on the ones that go upto 1500 and 3000, but there should be no problem even if you just supplement your xp with explorers.

Edit: Darn Dev's and their meddling

[nurmiw71]

What is your groups thought on collectables? The mages and clerics can get wands by turning in certain collectables in the Harbor area , Market area and in House P. As well as pick up potions of Cure Light Wounds, Remove Blindness, Repair Light, and etc...

To be honest, we haven't discussed that yet. Since we've just left Korthos, it hasn't been an issue yet. I think we're planning on turning in collectables, though. This is going to become hard enough as it is.

Running the campaign this way certainly makes collectables more valuable!

[Zenako]

Farming/running the explorer areas can be very EXP lucrative. Keep in mind you also get a small bonus EXP for finding rares more than once now which further helps on that front and that bonus does not change with how many time you encounter things like the Spider Swarm in the Vale.

The vale, which can be entered for experience at level 13 can give you a LOT of EXP when you combine the Explorers, Rares and Slayers. The other nice perk of areas like that is you can start and stop them anytime, and have made some progress, unlike a quest that only gives you the big bang at the end.

On another note, quite a few quests now also have Optional EXP awards that are fairly significant (unlike the token 25 EXP in past mods, many are now well into 3 figures and sometimes over 1000 for just an optional). Those EXP are not recorded or factored into most of the BASE experience tables for quests. IN addition you can often net close to 200% of the Base between first time bonuses, and being thorough and getting conquest and ransack, etc and Not dying as well. So again, another way that more EXP is in the game.

An area like Tangleroot is especially easy to justify repeats on it since you are searching for rares ingredients to make healing potions, etc out of from the plants. Gives you a serious storyline reason to farm that area until you overlevel it.

[nurmiw71]

There's actually an absolutely immense amount of experience out in the landscapes at the higher levels.

My quick calculations indicate that if you do every quest in the game exactly once on Normal difficulty, completing all of the optionals, that'll get you around 1.1 million of the 1.9 million XP necessary to hit cap. (Hard should get you a bit more.) As there's around 1.7 million XP out in the landscapes, it shouldn't be impossible to reach the cap. These are "back of the envelope" calculations that don't include things like the Voice of the Master.

Theoretically, one could level from 1-20 without ever stepping into a dungeon, except for one gap at level 5 (after completing Sorrowdusk's landscape), when you'll need ~67k XP so you can enter the Restless Isles/Ataraxia, and you'll be around 127k short from 1.9 million when you complete the Devil Battlefield. That's also not counting any repeat rares.

So, at least in theory, we should be able to make it.

Obviously, there will be some quests we have little or no chance to complete. We've tried to minimize the number of quests that are impossible for us to complete by going with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, so that we can heal, cast arcanes, and undo traps and locks. Even so, several of the raids will be beyond our abilities. And the lack of a fighter will hurt us a lot.

If there's enough XP available for us out there, it looks like our biggest problem will be properly equipping ourselves.

[dasein18]

So what is organic about this? Find another buzz word.

You might though try a Perma Death group. I have not tried yet, but you might like that type of play as it seems to fit into your overall approach.

[Zenako]

So, at least in theory, we should be able to make it.

Obviously, there will be some quests we have little or no chance to complete. We've tried to minimize the number of quests that are impossible for us to complete by going with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, so that we can heal, cast arcanes, and undo traps and locks. Even so, several of the raids will be beyond our abilities. And the lack of a fighter will hurt us a lot.

If there's enough XP available for us out there, it looks like our biggest problem will be properly equipping ourselves.

Actaully from a pure EXP points perspective most of the actual Raids kinda blow chunks. The large EXP quests are often the normal quests leading up to the raid quest. SO not much worries there.

Have you also considered using Hirelings? The in game ones (vs the Store ones) are not that expensive and give you some meatbags to help take the brunt of attacks. I also would make sure to use Monster Summoned allies a lot.

OH and on point 5...you no longer have to complete WW to get to the marketplace....Arlos can rot forever in the sewers if you want....

[Eelpout]

So, at least in theory, we should be able to make it.

Obviously, there will be some quests we have little or no chance to complete. We've tried to minimize the number of quests that are impossible for us to complete by going with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, so that we can heal, cast arcanes, and undo traps and locks. Even so, several of the raids will be beyond our abilities. And the lack of a fighter will hurt us a lot.

If there's enough XP available for us out there, it like our biggest problem will be properly equipping ourselves.

If you have any interest in rerolling, we went with a Cleric, Wiz/Rog (he is taking 2 levels of Rogue), and a Paladin. What you want to play may vary, but if you are looking to add a melee class, Wiz/Rog does make a nice combo and will give you that option.

Like I said, we are level 8 right now and things have been going very well for our 3-man static group. If you use you skill points in Rogue skills every level, the Wiz/Rog will have no trouble with traps, especially since you won't be running anything on Elite.

Just something to crunch on.

Luck