Can us Melee's get some Love in high reaper?

[thomascoolone64]

Were struggling even in the survivability dept. too much into HP instead of DPS so we can survive imo, maybe

1) boosting Dodge bonuses

2) Less concealment penalty

3) Alittle more Melee Power + Stat to damage bonuses

[slarden]

The main problem with melee survivability in high R is aoe attacks that can one-shot melees even with a tank fully holding aggro.

Dodge is quite a broken mechanic in reaper right now. They have to be super careful with it.

I would suggest adding something like +100 prr clickies and +100 mrr clickies that don't recharge and usable only in reaper mode (reaper trees, but I think those are going away). Fixing the enemy damage would be better, but that sounds like a tremendous effort that is unlikely to happen.

melee dps is fine and doesn't need a boost - the main problem is that it is 0 while dead.

[thomascoolone64]

How bout some Doublestrike and helplessness bonus? Thatd help just.add it to the Melee reaper tree! Itd be nice

[slarden]

How bout some Doublestrike and helplessness bonus? Thatd help just.add it to the Melee reaper tree! Itd be nice

Melees should have higher helplessness bonuses and caster helplessness bonuses should be reduced.

[Ganak]

Not so much only the deficiencies of melee in high reaper, but the conversation needs to include the imbalance of ranged spell/physical attacks with the functionality of being able to move and jump out of harms reach.

80% 3 second reduction in move speed and jump ability when spellcasting and using ranged attacks. Combat casting and shot on the run to reduce the modifier to 30%.

Bring back the value of gaining and keeping agro at the front line.


Moreover, add some reasonable prr/mrr bonuses in enhancement and epic destinies that favor melee.

[Reztroll]

Have you tried just running with a tank? Reaper should be about GROUP mechanics. Not everyone can do every role.

[Zuldar]

So shields give a bonus to MRR vs spells with reflex saves, how about using that general idea with PRR? When using a melee weapon you get extra PRR vs melee attacks. This way melee classes have to worry slightly less about getting inadvertently cleaved but ranged attacks will still be a threat.

[thegreatcthulhu]

Mutators IMO would be the best change they could make to reaper. Stop making it about boring monster stat jumps / player stat penalties and make it more about increasing the unpredictability of the dungeon. Unfortunately, I am not sure if SSG wants to take the time to do this, but I think it would breath a lot of life back into the end game of DDO.

[boredGamer]

So shields give a bonus to MRR vs spells with reflex saves, how about using that general idea with PRR? When using a melee weapon you get extra PRR vs melee attacks. This way melee classes have to worry slightly less about getting inadvertently cleaved but ranged attacks will still be a threat.

What's a "melee weapon" ?

I get there is a distinction from ranged weapons, but most casters can find a "melee weapon" to use.

[draven1]

Add reflex save to "Instant AOE spells that don't allow evasion (a.k.a horrid wilting)"

or

reduce horrid wilting damage to player.

Instant AOE spell doesn't allow reaction time for flanking type attackers(a.k.a DPS), and usually oneshot that type classes unless they use spell absorption. Even when flankers use perfect positioning & tactics, the Instant AOE spell would target the tank, and kill melee flankers instead.


And you can reduce Whirlwind attack type AOE damages from mobs. There is no way to reduce that attacks for melee flankers except lucky dodges. This is why VOD R10 runs have ranged DPS ONLY, not melee DPS.

But, Keep cleave type AOEs. You can avoid it by smart positioning.

[Mamalian]

Give melees (and ONLY melees) a "parry" ability that allowed them to block attacks like deflect arrows does.

[Uruk-hai]

Just simply add a PRR buff when attacking at melee. +2^[X] PRR per skull. Doesn't seem too difficult a problem.

[VinoeWhines]

Have you tried just running with a tank? Reaper should be about GROUP mechanics. Not everyone can do every role.

Unfortunately Should and what Often happens is that some don't want to join R10's when an LFM gets put up, I just reserved it that I have to start an R10 and put "In Progress" and hopefully some join and help out but often it's all quiet at the Dungeon start and worse some guys join and go afk in the middle of the quest or are multi tasking and not helping out.

I do have to say though that lately a few have been joining recently and helping churn through the quests at a faster pace and helping out allot.
But I have even seen that I'm not sure if it's bad collision detection but one player takes out a mob and is about 20 feet away and kills the mob and then a second and a half the mob from the floor gets off a last kill shot and killed that player when I saw the mob hit the floor first.
It's happened to me as well but seeing it across the screen at another player provides the proof it wasn't just me hallucinating things.

The mobs some how get a 30 foot AOE cleave all the time in R10's like a Legendary Cleave Dark Imbuement on steroids. It sucks allot to kill a mob and somehow he gets a cheat code extra kill attempt at you.

In regards to survivability I agree, playing in a group and all/most of the players are safely nested far away zipping out damage, while as a melee you have to/forced to go into the deep trenches to be just about in touch range to start your damage, is very risky and a suicide mission compared to Casting and Ranging from afar.

DPS from Casting can be top Tier the majority of the time
Range DPS is very strong as well
Melee DPS is somewhat strong but by the time you get to the mob you are the first one killed or the mob is killed before you can get your second swing on it.

I would think giving melees in their Tree a higher base PRR in the 3rd tier if they wear Bracers or a multiplier per every melee level they take, similar to wearing Heavy Armor but without the penalties. I play Rogue and my PRR is so low it's a non factor as a cloth wearer, since I switch out the outfits per situation and clickies they have. I can't even wear light armor due to the penalty in time it takes to equip it, it would be a death wait in order to switch out.

They should make Cloth instant swap like it is, Light armor 1.5-2 seconds longer(with ability to get Combat Wardrobe Runway swap speed), Medium armor half the time it is now and Heavy armor as is on Live.

I would say they need to look at the collision detection distance first in High Reapers because the mobs are always getting those cheap shots in to take you out even as your jumping away from them gaining retreat distance of 10-15 feet and some how your soul stone ends up trailing you, where you were at by about 10-15 feet from where you got hit at.

The bug on sneak speed reduction needs to be addressed also you can't sneak and drop down from an area or jump at all without getting penalize to a snail crawl; and the fix of having to switch weapons back and forth to fix the penalty is prohibitive as a melee. Half the time the deaths were because of weapon lag switch to then have to wind up with your weapon and then getting killed by a mobs faster swing.

Man those pesky mob archers in R10 are buoyantly deadly at range.

Don't get me started on Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny:

Why did you take away Shadow Manipulation and give it to a Range Tree in Shiradi as Beguile Charm(as if they needed it as a safer Ranged toon).
Why did we loose Consume as a Stealth(Rogue player here) and give it to Casters(even Artificers?) in a better form as (AOE instakill Mass Phantasmal Killer)Weird in our own Tree? That really sucks devs; almost every other Tree has Mass Frog, Everything Is Nothing, Cut the Strings, etc...
We had Executioner Shot/Strike(only a 30% chance, which was weak chance) to take out a mob(now Rangers get an Assassinate), While Casters get: Slay Living, Finger of Death, Power Word Kill, Frog, Mass Frog, Phantasmal Killer, etc.

Even Dire Charge is nice, why wasn't Shadow Dancer given a way to create an AOE CC like Dire Charge or even Greater Master of Flowers, Fury, Divine Crusaders AOE stuns?

The fact we have to choose Meld as a choice between a Epic Strike and Survivability is bad as it use to be able to be together, you could of just lowered the (%)Dodge Chance like you did but keep it separate from the Epic Strike as it has nothing to do with dealing Damage but survivability as a squishy class.

What in Dungeon Realms is Wand and Scroll Mastery doing in Shadow Dancers tree? It was promised to be a multiplier to Heroic Trees Wand and Scroll Mastery but it isn't and is a waste of points in that Tree.

It should of been:

Sleight of Hand:
Passive: +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% (Stacking)damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands.
Sleight of Hand: Traps and Vial Mastery: You can make Noisemaker Traps or Noisemaker Vials(on exploding they stick to door/wall and make ticking sound), with the ability to place or throw in stealth.
Active:
(Tier 1): If you have the Trapmaking Feat, you can now add your Sneak Attack Dice and Damage to Traps and Veils.
(Tier 2): You can use the higher of Melee or Range Power to Traps and Veils you Throw.
(Tier 3):You can inscribe scrolls as Traps and Alchemical Recipes as Vials.

Maybe have specific Alchemical Vials like Mass Suggestion/Confusion, Turn to Frog/Bat, a real Tanglefoot a la "Sharn exploding goo"(with DC: Reflex (DC 20 + Rogue Level + Stat Modifier + Assassinate Bonus)
and Shadow-Thunderstone: Alchemical Vial Trap Attack: 1d6+2 Force an damage per character level and dazes in an area. Fort DC (12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Stat Modifier + Assassinate Bonus).

Anyway you cut it, Melee and as a Rogue(with less than old Shadow Dancer) is almost extinct and a heavy burden to play, as seen as a very unforgiving playstyle and tedious then ever before.

[VinoeWhines]

Fatesinger and Primal Avatar get a +1 to +2 to their stats(+6 to DC's), what gives?
Every tree should get that option as well, especially so much so, as a Melee class.

There is no Stealth, Assassinate DC's, or Sneak Dice in any of the Reaper Trees, what's up with that?

[Mamalian]

There is no Stealth, Assassinate DC's, or Sneak Dice in any of the Reaper Trees, what's up with that?

Wrong.

[Wizard1406]

Have you tried just running with a tank? Reaper should be about GROUP mechanics. Not everyone can do every role.

This would only work in a very high population game where you can always find or fill groups and in static groups.

Tank is a thankless role for your main character in DDO because of no respec / dual spec available.... you cannot solo well (or barely at all in case of shield block tank - far too little damage). Also DDO is a pastlife game, for many pastlives you'd have to gimp yourself too much to make it work as a tank.

Making an alt works but is still quite a bit of effort and most people probably want RP on their main instead.



Also D&D PnP doesn't do "tank" role AFAIK? Any sturdier melee would work in this role.

How about something like a free feat: tenacity. After dealing melee damage you get xxx PRR per level, stacks up to 10 times. Casting a damage spell removes all stacks. (hybrid specs like EK could get some enhancements that lets you still make use of tenacity)

[VinoeWhines]

Wrong.

Your wrong is wrong.

Put up or shut it down.
Where in Reaper Trees is there Stealth, Assassinate or Sneak Dice to add....no where. There's plenty of Caster DC's and SR's and SP's along with MP/RP and To Hit's.

[VinoeWhines]

Melees should have higher helplessness bonuses and caster helplessness bonuses should be reduced.

How far apart are the two Helplessness bonus?

Melee = %
Caster = %

I was under the impression that...Mass Freeze/Hold/Dance + AOE(+Helpless Damage) = Room clear.
Maybe the AOE damage should be looked at as oppose to the helpless damage?
I think the Vulnerability stripping to Elemental/Chemical damage was the start of block chaining AOE damages that might be the root?

I remember back in the day Pre-2008, if you wanted to clear mobs with high damage you would send in a Fighter or Barbarian to get the big hits and Casters, Range classes supported with lower damage but helped in picking off the mobs that were almost out of HP or running to open a door/dungeon.
Melees were sturdy characters that could take multiple hits.

[mikarddo]

I see plenty of melee that do well in high reaper - even before U59.

The major nerf to caster damage certainly toned those down.
The major improvement to lag help melee alot as they need to be able to position themselves.
The change to self healing ooc in reaper helps many melee quite a bit.

I have seen some amazing players reincarnate their casters to melee yesterday.

From my pov melee seem to be in a decent state.