A sneak peek at Update 24’s dungeons … and beyond

[redoubt]

Thank you for adding brand new content.

The temple of EE sounds great, I really like Haunted Halls.

I'm not sure who finds the xoriat quests to be their favorite, but everyone is different, and while it is some of my least favorite content, I am glad it is new content and not rehashed old content. Though I would like to know how many of the new quests are reusing the sleeping spell inn? How many new maps are we getting?

[Oxarhamar]

It's quite clear that player feedback is coming from the PC. And it's the best method. These forums are a mess and can't be taken seriously, and I have a strange feeling that in-game surveys would be a complete failure.

I know nothing about pnp, but what probably happened is they said, hey, PC, we got the rights to this awesome, popular DnD module. Would you rather that be next or Auronoch, and people on the council said heck yeah to ToEE.

It isn't some conspiracy. Sheesh.

If it's coming from the PC then so be it but, the Devs need to site the PC for the decision not "player feedback" as they are 2 different things.

[Zzevel]

For the record this was 3 months before the announcement of Haunted Halls... from the 'What would you do if you were Producer' thread... They do listen

Start picking CLASSIC D&D Modules and implementing them into the game, bring D&D into DDO, a bit. This will bring back some of the D&D faithful who are unhappy due to the PtW or the PnP people who may not usually LIKE the MMO version of DDO...

And now from later in that same thread they listen again! Thanks Firepants

You have a license to use D&D material. USE IT. Give me the Temple of Elemental Evil or Scourge of the Slavelords. Not Joe Beefcake kills some incredibly resilient wolves on a pretty mountainside.

[Uska]

If it's coming from the PC then so be it but, the Devs need to site the PC for the decision not "player feedback" as they are 2 different things.

It would be hard to get accurate feedback from the players and you certainly couldn't use the forums to do it not really happy with a limited group like the PC having to much input either but then there is no ideal solution to the problem

[Uska]

Yes we know your siggy also very nicely sums up how you feel about FR, that's okay to each their own. Consider though many of us like FR and other "realms" and WOULD PAY and PLAY it!

Try not to let your minority complaint/hatred of FR lead you into believing you speak for the majority.



Indeed, I wonder if this is based off the players or the "council" which doesn't necessarily reflect what players want.

Not sure I know some of the PC are very pro realms and others not so much would be interesting if they let us know what they based the decision on/.

I know I don't speak for the majority as they likely have different tastes but popular doesn't equal good as there are plenty of examples of that I wont go into

[Uska]

It's quite clear that player feedback is coming from the PC. And it's the best method. These forums are a mess and can't be taken seriously, and I have a strange feeling that in-game surveys would be a complete failure.

I know nothing about pnp, but what probably happened is they said, hey, PC, we got the rights to this awesome, popular DnD module. Would you rather that be next or Auronoch, and people on the council said heck yeah to ToEE.

It isn't some conspiracy. Sheesh.

I disagree totally having a small group having to much to say is the worst idea they could use the forums wouldn't be a lot better but they would have a larger pool to draw opinions from at least.

[FranOhmsford]

For those who don't care for Acute Delirium or other Madness quests - what is your complaint?

- Too Silly? Yes
- Too difficult on elite @ level with BB? Way too difficult at level {Even the XP/Min Crowd won't run Acute Delirium at Level!}
- Poor xp per minute? Never have cared about XP/Min personally but see above
- Unsatisfactory named loot? Outdated named loot, the Ring Nerf didn't help either
- Unimaginative? Imagination isn't all it's cracked up to be - I'd say that these quests suffer from a surfeit of imagination
- Too similar to all other quests? This is one thing that can't be said about the Madness quests
- Repetitive grind mechanics? Well I consider running Sane Asylum 15 times to be a grind but that's a Player created issue not Dev created

Replies in Blue

What is your criteria for the quests the Devs should be making?

Well these are amongst my favourites after 4 years playing this game - The quests I'll happily run again and again and again:

Prove Your Worth {Heroic}
The Legend of Two Toed Tobias {Heroic}
Gwylan's Stand
Tomb of the Shadow Guard
Tomb of the Shadow Knight
The Xorian Cypher
Tomb of the Tormented
Tempest Spine
Relic of a Sovereign Past
Purge the Fallen Shrine
Chains of Flame
PoP

[poltt48]

First the madness line I like. Every time I run them it makes me laugh. But they are a rough set of quests try grouping last quest in the lord of eye line on elite at level with full group and your probly going to wipe. Just way to many beholders in that last room with the boss and tons of other trash for not being able to cast at all. But still like the lines. Hoping new one is still funny and tough but not to point where impossible at level have to do it 3 or 4 levels higher to have a chance. As for Temple of elmentle evil yes please lol. HH is by far my favorite dungeon in whole game over last 7 years I have played. That being said I agree with most TOEE should be multiple quests if not your just open it to zerg fest or people not running it if takes hours to run cause don't know who or what going to drop the loots. How huge a quest TOEE was in pen and paper should really be 4 to 5 quests if want to make it though whole thing. Make it like the depths where go though one quest to get to entrence of next quest witch leads to entrence of next quest and so on but still give a way to enter later quests without going though the others for people joining your in middle of the chain. Then each have there own loots and people will want to run the whole chain and will not become a zerg.

[Vengeance777]

Will the Temple of Elemental Evil have commentary like Haunted Halls? Would be cool to get Frank Mentzer's thoughts on the module he coauthored with Gary Gygax as we play it.

Also will we be getting Hommlet or just the Temple?

[Qhualor]

The only thing about level 7 is that there's no lack of level 7 content. Or level 8, for that matter, and definitely not level 5.

I suggest making it level 6 instead. Compare level 6 and 7:

Level 6
- Redwillow's Ruins
- The Bloody Crypt
- 1 Delera's walkup
- 8 lightweight F2P quests
- 5 lightweight P2P quests (tangleroot, sorrowdusk, 3BC)

Level 7
- Tear of Dhakaan
- Gwylan's Stand
- The Pit
- The entire Sentinels chain (Level 8 Spies is a walk-up)
- Half the Delera's chain
- 2 lightweight F2P quests
- 6 lightweight P2P quests (tangleroot, sorrowdusk, 3BC)

Neither level is particularly light on content, but 7 has a material advantage over 6 right now. 8 has more than either of them, and 5 has even more than 8. (Factoring in that you need twice as much xp to go from 8 to 9 as you do to go from 5 to 6.)

EDIT: My spreadsheet may have out-of-date info for a few of the quests (namely 3BC) but when I add up the base xp for all quests on normal, here's what I get for that range:

Level 5: 31,830
Level 6: 22,140
Level 7: 42,240
Level 8: 56,397
Level 9: 51,414

Level 6 is clearly lacking compared to its peers, while level 7 looks like it's already about right.

While compiling these xp totals it occurs to me that moving the first two Threnal quests from 8 to 9 would correct the imbalance between the two as well as fix the bravery issues with Threnal.

3 lives ago, or a month ago roughly, I did a regular heroic TR on my fighter. I did one and done on a 3+ life character with elite BB, 5% ship, 10% VIP, 5% VOM, 20% xp pot and tried the best I could to maximize xp including buying a rogue for trap heavy quests for more xp. Only killed mobs on my way to quests in wilderness zones. I had anywhere from 2.5 ranks to max xp banked at each level. I took 18 when I was a rank short of 19 and capped in Vale. I skipped Stealthy just because I don't like the quest, but I had so much xp banked I had to skip all of Necro 2, Xorian Cypher, Chrono and a couple others in low levels.

Even if you take away the xp pot, reduce the ship xp to 3% and skip random quests, you should have no problem with xp in low levels even on a 3+ TR.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Will the Temple of Elemental Evil have commentary like Haunted Halls? Would be cool to get Frank Mentzer's thoughts on the module he coauthored with Gary Gygax as we play it.

Also will we be getting Hommlet or just the Temple?

Just the Temple. See above.

[bennyson]

The Temple of Elemental Evil!??!?!?!

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davmuzl]

~ The Temple is very large, and we want players to have a reason to explore it even on subsequent runs. We want to find a fun system to reward exploring the temple rather than just running the most efficient path to finish the quests, and plan on having some rewarding optional objectives that randomly spawn and give out good XP and treasure.

This sounds great. I really enjoyed exploring the haunted halls for the first time and it is really unfortunate that most of it is just ignored when people just go for xp and loot. It is the only problem the haunted hall have and it is good to spend time to make it better in the future.

[Neomarica]

Hi Folks,

it seems, there are not many Forgotten Realms lovers in the Forum/ and or Player Council these days. Its a fact that the FR are the most popular and most played fantasy world in pen&paper gaming.
Far beyond Greyhawk or Eberron.
In the last update Eberron was embraced in many ways by the Devs. But serious- how many raids of the mark of death have you already run?
I seeked on the server Thelanis every 2 days since the start and found not even one pug! All the guilds I know (no raid guilds) dont run the raid and after the last FR realms raid were published,
they were run a 1000 times even today.

So what is the most popular contend? I think just bringing old content into epic is not the same as bringing something totally new like Anauroch- all the quests of the orchard running once is enough for me because they are not changed so much from heroic. But I like the new ones in the FR even today.

I like to see the madness quest the first time, but they are not really my favorite ones for doing them again...

Of course I know ToEE as pen & paper but its not really belonging into eberron or FR. There are so much other modules like Undermountain or Pool of radiance which fit much better to the world.
Why not creating waterdeep with the dungeon down there. There is a detailed map of the city already and many adventures running around this pearl of the realms.
I think the last work of the FR is really the best one, Turbine has done for a long time (haunted halls, underhalls, stormhorns..) and the should going this way not changing direction because of a smaller base of players wanting them too.
Otherwise all FR lovers have to go to neverwinter to explore their dream world more in the future.
Best regards
Tarinia

Actually these days, I think Golarion is more popular. Which sucks because both of them are horrible kitchensink settings.

[FranOhmsford]

They didn't beak the rings they fixed the no level on those rings is what was broken

That was a Retcon Uska!

The Devs stated on multiple occasions back when Reign of Madness was introduced that those Rings were WAI!

It was a year or more before they were NERFED!

You won't find those quotes now because of two things:

1) The Forum Update
and
2) Any that survived that update were removed when the Nerf happened!

[FranOhmsford]

I know nothing about pnp, but what probably happened is they said, hey, PC, we got the rights to this awesome, popular DnD module. Would you rather that be next or Auronoch, and people on the council said heck yeah to ToEE.

This kind of targeted polling was one of my reasons for leaving the PC!

A one or the other situation where it's known beforehand that one of the two will clearly be the winner!

It's not that the Council don't like Anauroch!

It's that the Council is made up of Players who'd LOVE to see Temple of Elemental Evil in DDO!

Heck - I'd probably have voted for ToEE if given that choice BUT I wouldn't have been voting AGAINST Anauroch!


And it seems certain people have this idea that DDO has a whole slew of Deserts?

WHERE?

I see a dozen or more Forested Wildernesses
I see multiple Icy wastes!
I see ONE Desert!

And that ONE Desert is one of the most popular packs in DDO's history!

[FranOhmsford]

The only thing about level 7 is that there's no lack of level 7 content. Or level 8, for that matter, and definitely not level 5.

I suggest making it level 6 instead. Compare level 6 and 7:

Level 6
- Redwillow's Ruins
- The Bloody Crypt
- 1 Delera's walkup
- 8 lightweight F2P quests
- 5 lightweight P2P quests (tangleroot, sorrowdusk, 3BC)

Level 7
- Tear of Dhakaan
- Gwylan's Stand
- The Pit
- The entire Sentinels chain (Level 8 Spies is a walk-up)
- Half the Delera's chain
- 2 lightweight F2P quests
- 6 lightweight P2P quests (tangleroot, sorrowdusk, 3BC)

Neither level is particularly light on content, but 7 has a material advantage over 6 right now. 8 has more than either of them, and 5 has even more than 8. (Factoring in that you need twice as much xp to go from 8 to 9 as you do to go from 5 to 6.)

EDIT: My spreadsheet may have out-of-date info for a few of the quests (namely 3BC) but when I add up the base xp for all quests on normal, here's what I get for that range:

Level 5: 31,830
Level 6: 22,140
Level 7: 42,240
Level 8: 56,397
Level 9: 51,414

Level 6 is clearly lacking compared to its peers, while level 7 looks like it's already about right.

While compiling these xp totals it occurs to me that moving the first two Threnal quests from 8 to 9 would correct the imbalance between the two as well as fix the bravery issues with Threnal.

I regularly run E-BB one run and have done so on dozens of characters! {Yes I also max out the Slayer Zones up to and incl. Sorrowdusk!}

Even on 3rd Lifers I'm Hard Capped BEFORE I hit Lvl 7 Quests! {And I ignore Carnival completely!}

XP isn't the reason why we need more low and mid level quests - There's already plenty for XP requirements {IF You're VIP or own the majority of packs} all the way up to 28!

We need more low and mid level quests so people have CHOICES!

[Oxarhamar]

It would be hard to get accurate feedback from the players and you certainly couldn't use the forums to do it not really happy with a limited group like the PC having to much input either but then there is no ideal solution to the problem

I already suggested the ideal solution.

in game survey.

All players that actually play get a say as well as those who might not currently play could log in to fill it out.

Would reach the widest possible portion of the player base not just the forums, Twitter, or Facebook fans.

[Uska]

That was a Retcon Uska!

The Devs stated on multiple occasions back when Reign of Madness was introduced that those Rings were WAI!

It was a year or more before they were NERFED!

You won't find those quotes now because of two things:

1) The Forum Update
and
2) Any that survived that update were removed when the Nerf happened!

anyone who knows d&d and DDO knows those rings needed to be fixed and I know you know it as well

[EazyWeazy]

I disagree. I had all the awesome necro 4 loot in 2 days, and it was not fun - you need rare loot to some degree.

For me, fighting is fun and such, but I also like traps and puzzles, which have sorely been missing lately in new dungeon content.

I'm talking about putting in very rare spawns with very rare drop rates. Bad combo.