Guild Renown Changes

[Tolero]

Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:

1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.

There are some balance Pros and Cons to this method, but we’d like guilds to give us feedback about their experiences using the new settings this week. If players like the settings, or feel it is workable with minor tweaks, then we are ready to keep them! If players find the changes make matters worse, then we are scheduled to revert them. So this week, we encourage guild leaders/members to use this thread to give us feedback about how the changes are impacting your guild leveling dynamics. Important feedback for us is points where frustration has eased (or increased). Thanks for your participation as we work to improve our guild leveling system!

[OpallNotten]

Reading that, I do not think I will even notice a change......I may be wrong.

Let me start by saying, the Guild system didn't bother me the way it was. I know it bothered LOTS of others though.

My Guild has 6 active accounts. Level 72
<o> On Argo.......Technically o.....but It was <o> before the brackets were removed from game.

How is this going to effect my Guild? Maybe it won't effect it at all?


~Opall~

[redspecter23]

A question. When does this guild renown ransack kick in? For very low level guilds, earning more than 3 levels a day is a possibility so ransack will have a greater effect, but for higher level guilds that earn only portions of a level each day, will the ransack effect them at all? Basically, is the ransack tied to the number of levels gained in a day? Or the amount of renown earned in a day? Will a high level guild start to face ransack on renown before they even gain 1/10th of a level?

Based on what I'm reading, most of the advantage that a small guild has now will be eliminated. It will be to a guild's advantage to have as many members as possible even if they aren't extremely active. A guild with 1000 semi active members now has the huge advantage that a 6 person guild had previously. Or perhaps I'm missing something.

[scoobmx]

What is the break-even point for your first change, Tolero, for a level 85 guild? That is, what account size corresponds to the decay of being level 85 now?

Depending on the answer this may be better or worse than the old system.

[whiteline]

Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:

1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.

There are some balance Pros and Cons to this method, but we’d like guilds to give us feedback about their experiences using the new settings this week. If players like the settings, or feel it is workable with minor tweaks, then we are ready to keep them! If players find the changes make matters worse, then we are scheduled to revert them. So this week, we encourage guild leaders/members to use this thread to give us feedback about how the changes are impacting your guild leveling dynamics. Important feedback for us is points where frustration has eased (or increased). Thanks for your participation as we work to improve our guild leveling system!

hope it helps will let you know soon

[Ivan_Milic]

Good to see you finally made this decision,but its a bit late,many guilds have kicked players.

[Krelar]

Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:

I'm thinking that Mabar starting on the 25th may interfere with people being able to accurately judge the changes effects on their guild.

[Impaqt]

Can you please just tell us what the decay is rather than us having to figure it all out again?

[Vargouille]

We expect this specific change to have minimal direct impact on small, high level guilds.

Diminishing returns on Guild Renown is only affected by actual levels gained by the guild. High level small guilds who may take many days or weeks to gain a level should see very few changes. If your guild gained levels today, you'll see fewer renown drops.

This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before, with these current changes we're looking at this week.

[jortann]

As a guild leader, seeing this news, makes me feel like I can be more open to recruiting new members.

[Krelar]

This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before.

Dose that mean this formula is wrong? It indicates that 10 is the minimum guild size used in the calculations.

[MeliCat]

Crimson Eagles of Khyber has been on the tipping point of 80 to 81 for about 3 months now and will never kick anyone as that is not what is done. So I guess we should see something.

[Spoonwelder]

1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.

Thanks for revisiting the guild renown system. I would like some clarity on point 1 as to how much the decay will be per guild size.....it sounds like a static number regardless of guild size so for a level 50/60/70 what is that decay amount. If it is a static amount it seems to stick it to the small/medium guilds as they only have X players to earn the same renown as a large guild. Without more detail, we can't really tell.

As to point 2 - honestly don't think this was ever an issue but you may be putting it in place so guilds don't race to 100 (not that I think that could/would happen as the amount of renown needed is insane). It seems totally disconnected from decay so I can't see that it is an offset to point 1.

I still think the better solution is to have the 'inactive' meter set to 1 day so that you only get decay on each account that is active for the day. Ie. if joeblow logs in even just to say 'hi' then he is going to add to decay but for the other casuals there is only decay if they log in. Fairer to me than a static decay figure which is going to promote massive guilds....maybe that is what you want but it may still not be what the players want.

[Vargouille]

Dose that mean this formula is wrong? It indicates that 10 is the minimum guild size used in the calculations.

My apologies. I just used 6 as an example size for a small guild.

[gemineye]

can you please just tell us what the decay is rather than us having to figure it all out again?

this^

[jortann]

My apologies. I just used 6 as an example size for a small guild.

So is it based on 10? 6? or 16? I'm confused.

Can you guys just share the new decay rate with us?

[Spoonwelder]

We expect this specific change to have minimal direct impact on small, high level guilds.

Diminishing returns on Guild Renown is only affected by actual levels gained by the guild. High level small guilds who may take many days or weeks to gain a level should see very few changes. If your guild gained levels today, you'll see fewer renown drops.

This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before, with these current changes we're looking at this week.

I read this as meaning the decay numbers will be:
Level decay
26 44
27 49
28 55
29 61
30 68
31 149
32 164
33 180
34 197
35 214
36 350
37 380
38 412
39 445
40 480
41 827
42 889
43 954
44 1,022
45 1,094
46 1,460
47 1,557
48 1,659
49 1,765
50 1,875
51 2,388
52 2,531
53 2,680
54 2,834
55 2,995
56 3,688
57 3,889
58 4,097
59 4,313
60 4,536
61 6,355
62 6,673
63 7,001
64 7,340
65 7,690
66 9,056
67 9,474
68 9,905
69 10,348
70 10,805
71 12,527
72 13,064
73 13,616
74 14,183
75 14,766
76 16,901
77 17,577
78 18,270
79 18,982
80 19,712
81 25,509
82 26,466
83 27,446
84 28,450
85 29,478
86 33,075
87 34,242
88 35,437
89 36,658
90 37,908
91 42,200
92 43,607
93 45,044
94 46,513
95 48,013
96 53,084
97 54,760
98 56,472
99 58,218
100 67,500

Basically the current level multiplier x 20 (as in max(guildsize,10)+10 was changed to max(null,10)+10).

What it means to me is my guild (now 70) will be able to slowly build to about level 84 to 85 assuming no changes. And by slowly I mean over the next 2 years (we gain from 25k-40k per day so say we beat decay by 15k average and need 13M more to get to 85.....that's about 850days +/-)....

Now I understand part 2 - as it slows the growth but doesn't totally stop it. This seems to level the playing field a bit between small and large guilds. But really is primarily a benefit to Medium and Large guilds....small guilds aren't specifically shafted but they don't gain anything much from this either except they can now grow if they want to without fear that a new member may not pull their weight.

[amnota]

Back to Vast and Mysterious we go.

[Auran82]

Why does decay exist at all?

Is it only so the store can sell more amenities due to smaller guilds not being able to reach/maintain a high level?

[Spoonwelder]

Looking at the decay list - I think one thing you may want to do is smooth the curve a bit.....there was a reason before for the slight extra bump at the 6's and 1's as it made holding certain levels easier (ie. 69-70 decay was 517-540 where 70-71 was 540-626 or 23 vs. 86).

Not a big issue but it really stands out now when you lock in the guild decay at the lower figures and it is just.....not elegant.