Super rough draft for U12 monk tank…

[Tobril]

Just a quickie post before someone else claims credit for this idea… (although a lot of people will likely develop something similar in parallel with me)



Goals:
Well rounded raid participant (if not tanking does decent DPS)
Good for epics (two decent stuns)
Fair DPS (touch of death, rings, past life)
AC option (nothing crazy, something in the ~70-80ish range for non-epic questing)



36 point, one monk life, preferably three fighter lives, mine will also have 2 pal lives)


12/6/2 Monk/Paladin/Fighter
Human


Stats something like:

16
14
15
8 (maybe a pinch more?)
14
14


Feats:
Stunning Fist
Stunning Blow
PL:Monk
Combat Expertise (DOS pre-req)
Dodge (ninja pre-req)
Dark Path
GTWF
IC: Bludgeon
Barb Past life
Improved Sunder (maybe)
Toughness (all remaining feats)


Hate:
55% monk
100% divine righteousness
25% DOS I
X% gear


DPS: (should quasi-decent)
2d10
Rings
Touch of Death


Saves:
All 40+ /w holy aura
Fortitude 50+ /w holy aura


Skills:
Concentration
Intimidate
UMD
Balance
Bit of Jump
1 Tumble
Whatever else fits


Stuns:
~39 Blow
~42 Fist

Improved sunder should help here, haven’t tested with my monk yet.

New belt is another +5, so I think these stuns should be pretty good for epics.


To-hit:
50-something /w no sneak attack


HP:
700+ in stance


Physical Defense:
Shadow Fade
15% reduction in earth III
AC option for some situations


All calcs are just doodles on a spreadsheet at the moment, will flesh this out more
semi-soonish. (mabar grinding takes precedence)

[Tobril]

You need a 13 INT to take Combat Expertise. Luckily, since you're already splashing 2 Fighter, you meet the feat prereq with Tower Shield Profieciency. Combat Expertise is a solid choice if you're going for an AC tank (pretty much necessary), but another Toughness would probably do you better, rather than sacrificing your other stats for those three build points (assuming +2 Tome).

Oh yeah, forgot about that, +1 for the catch.

11 or 12 then, if it works out as well as I hope I can finally put my +4 INT tome to good use for CE, or perhaps just ditch it completely depending on how I can massage the numbers.

[vraelliott]

You need a 13 INT to take Combat Expertise. Luckily, since you're already splashing 2 Fighter, you meet the feat prereq with Tower Shield Profieciency. Combat Expertise is a solid choice if you're going for an AC tank (pretty much necessary), but another Toughness would probably do you better, rather than sacrificing your other stats for those three build points (assuming +2 Tome).

[Tobril]

I don't like the planner format, but it does nice validation to keep me from forgetting things...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 402
Spell Points: 95 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 18
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    18
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    25
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         6                    34
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  2                     7
Intimidate            2                    26
Jump                  6                    24
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                  2                     3
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                3                     6
Use Magic Device      4                    14

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

[maddmatt70]

You probably could just make a pure monk with the new earth stance in update 12 although intimidate would be less then. Maybe 18 monk 1 fighter 1 rogue for the intimidate and hamstring feat are better then your 12 monk 6 pally 2 fighter in update 12.

[Chette]

I'm playing a 12 monk 6 paladin 2 fighter right now. It is probably my favourite build to date.

You don't need combat expertise for DoS. I didn't bother with it as I don't really plan to do a lot of AC tanking. Though with some gear changes it could be decent. I also didn't bother with either stunning blow (stunning fist is enough for me) or improved critical bludgeon. I just supplemented with more toughnesses.

My HP sits around 700hp without any particularly uber gear and on just at 32 point life. Healing amp is over 300%, divines and bards love it.

Ninja fade like you mention is great for tanking, as is the improved evasion. With claw set and divine righteousness I don't have problem holding agro.

Monk jump and water walk are also quite handy if you want to tank lord of the blades.

I went with half-elf cleric dil for no-fail heal scrolls, which hit me for about 350 hp, for those oh-**** moments. Will probably switch to rogue dil once I bother to get silver flame favour.

[Tobril]

You probably could just make a pure monk with the new earth stance in update 12 although intimidate would be less then. Maybe 18 monk 1 fighter 1 rogue for the intimidate and hamstring feat are better then your 12 monk 6 pally 2 fighter in update 12.

I have a pure monk, but even if deviating slightly as you suggested
she wouldn’t have the HP, hate, saves, and intimidate of the 12/6/2.

She does fine in 6-man epics tanking the little bosses like the deeps critter,
but she will never be able to horoth or lob tank due to low HP.


We have a bunch of 12/6/2 fighter/pal/monk tanks that do pretty well in
chrono and tod, my idea here was to be similar except with better defensive
abilities and much better utility in 6-man epics. The one thing I don’t want
to do is make a character that’s only pulled out for tanking.
(although those types of characters are certainly valuable for those situations)


+1 due to appreciating your input, as I know you have some pretty extensive
tanking experience based on your other posts.

[Tobril]

Monk jump and water walk are also quite handy if you want to tank lord of the blades.

When are you going into the water?

We started doing it a little different, when he whirlwinds everyone
stands on the edge and the tank holds him in a tight circle just outside
where the buff happens.

Dunno if we’re going to keep doing it this way as it seems like it puts
everyone but the tank at a greater risk, but it seems to work so far.

As the raid is still new I'd be interested in any trick to make it go smoother.

[maddmatt70]

When are you going into the water?

We started doing it a little different, when he whirlwinds everyone
stands on the edge and the tank holds him in a tight circle just outside
where the buff happens.

Dunno if we’re going to keep doing it this way as it seems like it puts
everyone but the tank at a greater risk, but it seems to work so far.

As the raid is still new I'd be interested in any trick to make it go smoother.

For the raid tank him by the edge and then when he winds up the tank just backs up into the water and sits in the water until he is done whirlwinding. Tank does not take any damage really when sitting in water.

[maddmatt70]

I have a pure monk, but even if deviating slightly as you suggested
she wouldn’t have the HP, hate, saves, and intimidate of the 12/6/2.

She does fine in 6-man epics tanking the little bosses like the deeps critter,
but she will never be able to horoth or lob tank due to low HP.


We have a bunch of 12/6/2 fighter/pal/monk tanks that do pretty well in
chrono and tod, my idea here was to be similar except with better defensive
abilities and much better utility in 6-man epics. The one thing I don’t want
to do is make a character that’s only pulled out for tanking.
(although those types of characters are certainly valuable for those situations)


+1 due to appreciating your input, as I know you have some pretty extensive
tanking experience based on your other posts.

Have done some more thinking and really tons of ways to go now. Monks or monk multi-class tank builds really just got a huge boost. The 12 monk 6 pally 2 fighter build is an old one a buddy of mine has been running it for a long time now and it works well for him even in LOB when he switches between shield and unarmed, but you can go with a wide variety of builds in update 12 using 6+ monk levels.

[Tobril]

For the raid tank him by the edge and then when he winds up the tank just backs up into the water and sits in the water until he is done whirlwinding. Tank does not take any damage really when sitting in water.

Curious, every time one of our tanks fell into the water he became
deceased rather quickly.


Does moving in the water cause more damage, ala moving in/out of
tod shadows? Should the tank stand still in the water?
(I never tried stepping in the water, was on healers most of the time and didn’t want to risk it)

Will the lob try to play with the tank exclusively when you do this or does
he still go tazmanian devil all over the place? He seems to stay on the same radius
of the circular platform when spinning around, but I’ve only done a few runs and
am still learning.

[maddmatt70]

Curious, every time one of our tanks fell into the water he became
deceased rather quickly.


Does moving in the water cause more damage, ala moving in/out of
tod shadows? Should the tank stand still in the water?
(I never tried stepping in the water, was on healers most of the time and didn’t want to risk it)

Will the lob try to play with the tank exclusively when you do this or does
he still go tazmanian devil all over the place? He seems to stay on the same radius
of the circular platform when spinning around, but I’ve only done a few runs and
am still learning.

First thing is when the main tank stops attacking the other tanks should stop attacking. Off tanks can make the mistake of attacking while the main tank is backing into the water and thus pulling aggro from him and then the LOB goes all over the place. The way to main tank it is when he starts whirlwinding you just back up and drop in the water and sit there until he is done whirlwinding and then pop out of the water and attack the LOB again. If you do not move in the water you will take no damage. This is how all the folks do it on Khyber Server.

One of best tanks on Khyber has done one better because there is actually a couple of places you can literally attack the LOB while he is whirlwinding and he can not hit you - these places are at the water's edge, but that takes alot of experience and know how to do that so just back in the water and sit. You can practice the movements when you first get on the platform before the raid starts just practice moving back into the water and sitting in the water you will see what I am talking about damage wise. The raid does not actually start until you approach the LOB and his minions.

[Tobril]

Rough gear sketch…


Epics/General

Head Air - +6 CHA skills
Neck Shintao/Oremi (CON)
Trinket Gem of Many Facets (yellow slot ???)
Cloak Wretched Twilight/Epic Night
Belt Event Belt - +5 stuns, +3 UMD, (blue slot ???)
Ring (swap) Kyosho/Oremi (WIS 6, +1 ex STR/CON)
Gloves Epic Claw (STR)
Boots Epic Golden Greaves
Ring (perm) DEX, +1 ex dex, holy burst
Bracers Epic Jidz Tet'ka (GFL, CHA)
Amour Red Robe (blue ???, colorless ???)
Goggles Epic Raven's Sight



Tanking

Head Air - +6 CHA skills
Neck Shintao/Oremi (CON)
Trinket Gem of Many Facets (yellow slot ???)
Cloak Epic Envenomed (slot toughness)
Belt GS HP
Ring (swap) Kyosho/Oremi (WIS 6, +1 ex STR/CON)
Gloves Epic Claw (STR)
Boots Epic Golden Greaves
Ring (perm) DEX, +1 ex dex, holy burst
Bracers Epic Jidz Tet'ka (GFL, CHA)
Amour Red Robe (blue ???, colorless ???)
Goggles Epic Raven's Sight


Need to slot… (brainstorming)
100% Fort – Belt and swap to min II GS? Should be safe as frequent melee belt swaps are rare
+2 Luck – Probably Robe, want this all the time
+4 saves – Gem, for when not wearing envenomed
+1 ex STAT – Still have a clear slot on the red robe, something besides DEX or WIS

[Tobril]

First thing is when the main tank stops attacking the other tanks should stop attacking. Off tanks can make the mistake of attacking while the main tank is backing into the water and thus pulling aggro from him and then the LOB goes all over the place. The way to main tank it is when he starts whirlwinding you just back up and drop in the water and sit there until he is done whirlwinding and then pop out of the water and attack the LOB again. If you do not move in the water you will take no damage. This is how all the folks do it on Khyber Server.

One of best tanks on Khyber has done one better because there is actually a couple of places you can literally attack the LOB while he is whirlwinding and he can not hit you - these places are at the water's edge, but that takes alot of experience and know how to do that so just back in the water and sit. You can practice the movements when you first get on the platform before the raid starts just practice moving back into the water and sitting in the water you will see what I am talking about damage wise. The raid does not actually start until you approach the LOB and his minions.

I’ll suggest the water approach next time. Hopefully it will catch on and save us some resources.

[Gratch]

For armor you can go with Epic Red with Hvy Fort slotted (AC+fire) or Garments of Equilibrium (I have two pairs - they break so quickly even with adamantine ritual) (DPS).

[Tobril]

For armor you can go with Epic Red with Hvy Fort slotted (AC+fire) or Garments of Equilibrium (I have two pairs - they break so quickly even with adamantine ritual) (DPS).

Garments are so-so but probably gonna go with the red robe for the slots.

[Culver.Civello]

Hey Tobril. Interested in this build. Any updates since the last time you posted here? Also... what kind of gear did you use while leveling?

[Munkenmo]

Hey Tobril. Interested in this build. Any updates since the last time you posted here? Also... what kind of gear did you use while leveling?

I'm not tobril but i'll vouch it's a solid enough build. It doesn't quite play like a pure monk, but you get more hp / threat / better saves / better intim / access to CSW wands with no umd

Gear i'd go robes of invulnerability at level 1
Level 3 make a moderate fort ring
level 5 bust out your abishai set and jidz tet ka bracers. be in earth stance and enjoy your dr / ac / increased die step.
Level 7 make a heavy fort ring.

Generally speaking at level 7 i'm hitting the high yielding exp / min quests and am too busy zerging to worry about gear. I'll maybe stop to get something to even out stats in ring / belt / neck slots, (sirens set that gives +4 wisdom and deathblock is nice at level 7)

At level 11 put on your gs min2 hp item - get the sora kell set, and the belt from temple of vol (thoughtful remembrance?)
again craft some gear to even out stats as needed.
This normally tides me through on a monk till level 16, dragon touched.
18 tod sets.
20 - epic gear.

Leveling this toon is quite easy, even without trying you'll only find your ac lacking in the droam pack, and then again in elite vale.

Personally when i made this, i took the 12 monk levels first, then 6 pally then 2 fighter. It's a pretty lazy gear layout sorry, but it's late and tobril's a nice guy he'll be certain to do a better job of helping than I.

[Tobril]

Hey Tobril. Interested in this build. Any updates since the last time you posted here? Also... what kind of gear did you use while leveling?

I’m still experimenting with the build and slotting items at the moment,
it’s highly likely the build will have the paladin and fighter levels switched
around for better intim and HP.
(in the recent tod video this build is missing GFL, toughness item, and two toughness feats – 103 hp total)

Part of the reasoning behind this change is that divine righteousness isn’t
really needed with all the other hate in most cases, and intim will cover
for when you run into a crazy geared melee or people with a lot of hate
that are just trying to mess with you.

The fighter 6 is also a cheaper defender AP-wise and gives more STR, intim,
feats(toughnesses), etc.


I would take a look at Droken’s Emerald build. He is a little more focused
towards AC/tanking, but the builds share common elements and gear is
almost identical.


On the topic of gear and leveling, Mo has some good suggestions. I was
wind until ToD and jorgundals came online and then switched to sun, but
the other monks in the TR group were earth for the DR and stoneskin proc
from the stonedust wraps. Do what works for your situation.
(btw, vampiric stonedust are incredible)

Having 2 paladin early is also nice for saves, but you can level in varying orders.
I would recommend using the planner to find an optimum balance for buying
class skills like intimidate. (i.e. spend 1 ftr/pal point instead of 2 mnk)

[Culver.Civello]

Alright, thanks. I'll experiment with it a little myself.