+20 lesser heart of woods for all melees!

[R0cksteady]

Ok, well the current trne of nerf melees, buff casters/FvS, and repeat is showing that the next update will be a buff to Casters since Melees got nerfed with fort increases on enemies and Barb pastlife (Which is understandable since it was not WAI and was causing Barbs to do almost as much damage as a FvS).

So now that FvS and Sorcs do more damage to bosses than any melee class, they as well as Wizards can keep themselves alive anywhere, Wizards can kill all trash, and Melee serves as a distraction while FvS and casters do everything better, why not give all melees a +20 lesser heart of wood, then delete Melee classes?

When a perfect group is 11 FvS and a Wizard to take care of trash, why have the server bogged down with gimpy Melees? Sure, once in awhile a tank is useful, but only because there are other melees in group. And even then, FvS make great tanks anyway.

Or, maybe, in update 12 balance things out a bit? Maybe not have 3 classes which top DPS, instakill everything that isn't a boss, self heal, party heal, buff and only have to worry about running out of spell points in maybe 2 or 3 epic quests/raids?

[Shade]

(Which is understandable since it was not WAI and was causing Barbs to do almost as much damage as a FvS).

lol the sad truth...

[fuzzy1guy]

Grubby man with large weapon is not equal to favored of the gods. Or those who tap the universe itself and call down the magic.


Seems ok to me.

[FrozenNova]

This is just their idea of bringing it back to its pnp roots.

[Boromirs]

Grubby man with large weapon is not equal to favored of the gods. Or those who tap the universe itself and call down the magic.


Seems ok to me.

Makes for a better story though...almost all the movies have "one man versus the gods to find his loved one etc. etc."

I think there will be a great migration of melees more toward tanks. Really, the only use for a melee now...a giant meat shield.

[R0cksteady]

Grubby man with large weapon is not equal to favored of the gods. Or those who tap the universe itself and call down the magic.


Seems ok to me.

Exactly.

So now that it's balanced this way, why not give the useless melees a break and let them change classes? I mean, some of us spent months/years building gear and tweaking the build to get it as good as possible, but that 5th life Melee with tons of epic gear really can't do anything better than a first life FvS with a couple weeks put into getting some basic raid gear. So let's just give them an easy way to change into a class that's not pointless.

[R0cksteady]

This is just their idea of bringing it back to its pnp roots.

Best way to get to the PnP roots is to play PnP DDO is an MMO. Where people spend a LOT of time trying to make the best character they can. And is USUALLY balanced so that the many classes have a point to playing them.

instead, the game seems to be balanced based from the ideas of someone who has never played the game, and got his ideas when he forgot to bring a magazine to the toilet.

[Chrasch]

Exactly.

So now that it's balanced this way, why not give the useless melees a break and let them change classes? I mean, some of us spent months/years building gear and tweaking the build to get it as good as possible, but that 5th life Melee with tons of epic gear really can't do anything better than a first life FvS with a couple weeks put into getting some basic raid gear. So let's just give them an easy way to change into a class that's not pointless.

Because some people like to play Melee because it's melee. My Artificer uses a sword. Boo-hoo you aren't killing as many people. Get over it. It's just a game. If all of the Melee disappears then how is it Dungeons and Dragons?

[R0cksteady]

Because some people like to play Melee because it's melee. My Artificer uses a sword. Boo-hoo you aren't killing as many people. Get over it. It's just a game. If all of the Melee disappears then how is it Dungeons and Dragons?

Yeah. I have a third life fighter and a monk. I like playing Melees too. I'd prefer to feel like I was contributing to the party though, instead of taking up a spot that could be better filled by any FvS.

[Chrasch]

Yeah. I have a third life fighter and a monk. I like playing Melees too. I'd prefer to feel like I was contributing to the party though, instead of taking up a spot that could be better filled by any FvS.

Sure it could be filled. But it wasn't. How hard is it to grab a Favored Soul for any quest? Not hard at all. But you were picked over a Favored Soul. Don't worry. Be happy.

[R0cksteady]

Sure it could be filled. But it wasn't. How hard is it to grab a Favored Soul for any quest? Not hard at all. But you were picked over a Favored Soul. Don't worry. Be happy.

No, I wouldn't join. Why would I? I have a Favored Soul. Why would I be some piking melee in the group when I could actually contribute by doing more damage, healing, buffing and never having to get a heal from someone else?

[Chrasch]

No, I wouldn't join. Why would I? I have a Favored Soul. Why would I be some piking melee in the group when I could actually contribute by doing more damage, healing, buffing and never having to get a heal from someone else?

Because it's fun. Odd. I thought you said you were a Favored Soul, not a Paladin. Take the stick outta your butt dude.

[R0cksteady]

Because it's fun. Odd. I thought you said you were a Favored Soul, not a Paladin. Take the stick outta your butt dude.

We get it. You don't like balance. You'd hate for all classes to be useful.

There's no stick in my butt. I pay for a game, I spent tons of time on characters, and they're surpassed by a toon I spent 2 weeks to level and a week to gear. In every way.

But hey, if the general consensus is that people enjoy having 3 really good classes, and some other classes that are there for flavor, then I guess this topic is pointless.

[Ziindarax]

Here's something to keep in mind:

Although Melees (and to a larger extent, ranged) warrior-classes are badly in need of some damage buffs (4th edition, though considered an abomination by many, did an excellent job balancing out the classes so that it's more of a matter of preference rather than power), their greatest strength is that they do not need to rely on a mana bar for their power; they can hack and slash indefinitely as long as they have the means to keep themselves up. Honestly, I'd like for melee characters to match the power of casters in their demi-god states; rather than tapping into the universe, or divine powers, the melee classes use the power that comes from within (monk-ish I know, but bear with me).

How many Favored Souls/Sorcerers/Wizards/Clerics do you hear of who are able to solo Epic quests other than bragging posts made by meta-gamers?

Once a caster depletes their mana bars, and their resources, they're pretty much done. Granted, one could buy Yugo INT pots and gradually restore their SP, but that would be more expensive than just buying the mana pots.

[Tinco]

I like it. The title made me smile. Besides, I agree wholeheartedly but I'm tired repeating the same over and over again.

[EDIT] Ziindarax: This is simply not true on many levels. Melee can swing forever, but they can only swing effectively until their boosts/smites/rages and most importantly healthbars are gone. Shrine placement in 95% of all quests does not promote careful sp management at all. And when the x hits the y you can power-drink your way through everything as seen in infamous house C raids. For me, there's not one tiny reason that the current situation is anywhere close to satisfactory regarding balance. The ability vs. limitation measure is off by miles and the only reason not play casters is that they trivialize many parts of the game so much that it becomes boring.

[R0cksteady]

Here's something to keep in mind:

Although Melees (and to a larger extent, ranged) warrior-classes are badly in need of some damage buffs (4th edition, though considered an abomination by many, did an excellent job balancing out the classes so that it's more of a matter of preference rather than power), their greatest strength is that they do not need to rely on a mana bar for their power; they can hack and slash indefinitely as long as they have the means to keep themselves up. Honestly, I'd like for melee characters to match the power of casters in their demi-god states; rather than tapping into the universe, or divine powers, the melee classes use the power that comes from within (monk-ish I know, but bear with me).

How many Favored Souls/Sorcerers/Wizards/Clerics do you hear of who are able to solo Epic quests other than bragging posts made by meta-gamers?

Once a caster depletes their mana bars, and their resources, they're pretty much done. Granted, one could buy Yugo INT pots and gradually restore their SP, but that would be more expensive than just buying the mana pots.

What? My Wizard, Cleric and FvS can solo plenty of epics. How many bosses live longer than it takes for me to spend my mana bar with dots? How long do you think it takes me to get SP back when I throw up my shield and let conc op and Torc refill me? The blue bar is pretty much limitless. The only time I ever run out of mana on my FvS is when I'm healing melees in raids. But if those melees were FvS, there would be more damage being done, and everyone would just heal themselves

I understand that their power is limited to SP, but they have a TON of SP and options to restore it.

And this is a team game, I don't really care if it's balanced for solo. I like soloing with my blue bars, scroll farming and seal farming is a good way to kill time. I wouldn't do it with my melees though. They can't just intakill all the trash, shrine, dot up the boss like any of the spellcasters can.

[Ziindarax]

What? My Wizard, Cleric and FvS can solo plenty of epics. How many bosses live longer than it takes for me to spend my mana bar with dots? How long do you think it takes me to get SP back when I throw up my shield and let conc op and Torc refill me? The blue bar is pretty much limitless. The only time I ever run out of mana on my FvS is when I'm healing melees in raids. But if those melees were FvS, there would be more damage being done, and everyone would just heal themselves

I understand that their power is limited to SP, but they have a TON of SP and options to restore it.

And this is a team game, I don't really care if it's balanced for solo. I like soloing with my blue bars, scroll farming and seal farming is a good way to kill time. I wouldn't do it with my melees though. They can't just intakill all the trash, shrine, dot up the boss like any of the spellcasters can.

Which is the point the OP is trying to make - the melee classes are essentially useless.

[Chrasch]

Here's something to keep in mind:

Although Melees (and to a larger extent, ranged) warrior-classes are badly in need of some damage buffs (4th edition, though considered an abomination by many, did an excellent job balancing out the classes so that it's more of a matter of preference rather than power), their greatest strength is that they do not need to rely on a mana bar for their power; they can hack and slash indefinitely as long as they have the means to keep themselves up. Honestly, I'd like for melee characters to match the power of casters in their demi-god states; rather than tapping into the universe, or divine powers, the melee classes use the power that comes from within (monk-ish I know, but bear with me).

How many Favored Souls/Sorcerers/Wizards/Clerics do you hear of who are able to solo Epic quests other than bragging posts made by meta-gamers?

Once a caster depletes their mana bars, and their resources, they're pretty much done. Granted, one could buy Yugo INT pots and gradually restore their SP, but that would be more expensive than just buying the mana pots.

Great points all around. I think the reason 4th edition is so reviled is that it balanced the classes so well.

[Tinco]

I think the reason 4th edition is so reviled is that it balanced the classes so well.

From my experience 4th is reviled because it's a great combat simulation but a horrible role playing ruleset (this might have to do with the balance actually, so I partially agree). Second, we don't play DnD here. We play an MMO based on pnp rules but as such it should adhere to some basic principles of the genre. Providing a slight semblance of balance to make sure that all types of characters can participate successfully in a substantial share of the game's content is one of them.

[R0cksteady]

How hard could it be to fix?

Put a save on DOTs, Reverse TWF nerfs (Keep the system change, just raise offhand procs to 100% with GTWF, Give rangers more doublestrike with each tier of tempest, Allow offhand procs on doublestrikes), put glancing blows back on THF when moving, and revert combat feats back to where they were. Remove the extra fortification put on raid bosses and replace it with more HP, so the increase in boss defense effects all classes not just melees.

With a few changes, Casters both divine and arcane aren't as ridiculously overpowered, melees have more of a purpose since they would be doing a bit more damage, Rangers wouldn't be do underpowered, TWF would be doing slightly more damage than THF (Makes sense for a fighting style that requires more feats, more weapons and more points spent in dex which could otherwise be dumped to do more damage, especially when the best weapons int he game are THF by a wide margin). Hell, with the Epic SoS, THF would still be on top.

But instead, what we're going to get, is more melee nerfs. Or maybe another tier of the FvS prestige that comes with a clickie of "DUNGEON OVER" and allows you to skip the raid and pick up the end loot.