Dear Devs—Sonic DOT for Bards

[Kielbasa]

In all honesty, I think bards SHOULD have the option to focus on "nuking" just so long as that nuking is not as good as a dedicated nuker (say, Sorcerer)

Because it seems that the thing about Bard is the fact that it's so modular that it can fit in a few roles at the same time to a lesser extent - sorta like a "Queen of a Few Trades"

I would like the DOTs and some other damage spells added so that if a Bard wants to, they can use their limited SP pool to cast some damage spells. That way, Warchanters can wage war, Spellsingers can cast spells, and Virtuosos can...

Um...

what should they be doing again?

Virtuosos should be doing this. Anyone who says otherwise isn't a real Virtuoso.

[Xenostrata]

I have to go with /not signed.

Bards were never meant to be a nuking class. They were meant as the best support and CC a party can get. Giving a class that does technically contribute the most DPS (doublestrike, higher DCs/lower SP costs) to a raid a spell of equal power to the (arguably) best wiz/sorc spell available would be a bit over powered IMHO.

I would support giving the bard more damage spell options, but not one like this, unless it was very limited.

Wow, someone was getting trigger happy. How did I manage to get neg repped for this?

[Aashrym]

Wow, someone was getting trigger happy. How did I manage to get neg repped for this?

Sounds like it. You can follow up to get the neg rep removed. Difference of opinion shouldn't be a reason for neg repping. I'm don't see anything I would hit a negative response for in that quote.

Although bards do need more spells options, including adding more damage spells.

[Stitch78]

/signed for a Sonic DoT spell.

.... but ... what will the DC be? Save for half? Bards already have a near-impossible time of landing DC-based spells at end game because bard spells are capped at level 6 spells.

OR

/signed for Wail or a Wail equivalent.

Wouldn't mind at all a song-based insta-kill even if the actual spell isn't available. Don't think that would over-power anyone. But I do think bards need one actual offensive casting ability. Greater Shout is laughable (60 damage in a best-case-scenario) considering the level of mobs it is used against. An ungeared warchanter will do more in a single swing. Do any wizzies or sorcs even carry Greater Shout?


But
/not signed for both of these being implemented (at least not at the same time).

[Aashrym]

/signed for a Sonic DoT spell.

.... but ... what will the DC be? Save for half? Bards already have a near-impossible time of landing DC-based spells at end game because bard spells are capped at level 6 spells.

OR

/signed for Wail or a Wail equivalent.

Wouldn't mind at all a song-based insta-kill even if the actual spell isn't available. Don't think that would over-power anyone. But I do think bards need one actual offensive casting ability. Greater Shout is laughable (60 damage in a best-case-scenario) considering the level of mobs it is used against. An ungeared warchanter will do more in a single swing. Do any wizzies or sorcs even carry Greater Shout?


But
/not signed for both of these being implemented (at least not at the same time).

Greater shout actually crits over 700 points of damage on failed save (and a good damage roll) if built for it; more if helpless via deep slumber for a combo attack. The issue is landing the missed save on a bard tho because the capstone does nothing for the DC's and no bard I know of takes SF: evocation.

The damage in epics tended to be around 150 per hit with crits over 300 and the the odd missed save. High crits I found rare. Very poor damage but better than what you have posted and not bad for a quick burst if the group of mobs is big enough. Larger the group the better chance at the crits. 12 mobs at 150 per hit on the low end is still 1800 damage off that single spell. Absolutely horrible for a caster but better than swinging a weapon.

The secret is to save it for the groups and not let any full casters into the party.

That was with 18% crit, 40% enhancement, 50% potency (no cacophony VI available then). I believe superior cacophony VI is available now via crafting but haven't worked on it. (EDIT II: also maximized empowered. Guess that's important. )

It's been a while since I did that on a bard tho. That particular bard is currently on a wizard life at this point so if anyone has more up-to-date experience I'd be glad to hear it.

Also, I've run into a couple of casters who carry it for the stun proc with damage, but very rarely.

EDIT: landing failed saves on a bard using greater shout also sucks in Amrath. Mindflayers and Taken seem to be very easy to stun tho.

[Stitch78]

Lol, I stand corrected, but I suspect the number of bards running with maximized, empowered, cacophony gear can be counted on 1 hand.

[Aashrym]

Lol, I stand corrected, but I suspect the number of bards running with maximized, empowered, cacophony gear can be counted on 1 hand.

I know 3 who have tried it as a flavor build. I made sure I had max IC, good healing, and high enchantment DC`s before even looking at sonic damage.

For the SP cost it`s generally not worth it, but given the wider range of bard sonic spells and abilities that could be made available and limited to one low damage type there is potential there for the class that should be developed.

[Cyr]

Having thought long and hard about this one and having a maxed out enhancement for sonic damage bard now I have to say this would be a poor idea.

Bards have strong reasons to include them in parties now and contribute strongly to parties as is. Adding something like the truly devastating DoT spells that were given to arcanes and divines would change bards from a very good option in a party to almost a must have...and spell singers become that much more dominant in current end game also as a side effect.

[Aashrym]

Having thought long and hard about this one and having a maxed out enhancement for sonic damage bard now I have to say this would be a poor idea.

Bards have strong reasons to include them in parties now and contribute strongly to parties as is. Adding something like the truly devastating DoT spells that were given to arcanes and divines would change bards from a very good option in a party to almost a must have...and spell singers become that much more dominant in current end game also as a side effect.

The problem is the contribution versus bosses. No offensive songs, no offensive spells, just buff and then act as another melee or cast healing. I thought that limited ability dealing with bosses was the concern for casters and was a consideration in the spell pass; bard have a similar issue.

I expect that the existing DoT`s will see a "rebalance" anyway. They seem a bit excessive to me still since they do a better job than higher level spells for damage output.

Bards need something more than singing and then nothing else in some encounters. I`m up for suggestions if you have any. I was relying on PnP source material and the common bard theme of sonic spells and sonic dot`s.

I`m curious about your comment that spellsingers becoming that much more dominant in the current end game. I`m reading that as if they are already but not seeing it in game play myself. Either I`m misreading it or we have different experiences.

What I see more and more of is FvS AoV`s with the dot, aura, and shoulder cannon marking the target and putting out some respectable damage while maintaining healing. That is also what I think will become even more dominant. It`s hard for me to feel like a good contributor compared to that on a spellsinger.

[Creeper]

Having thought long and hard about this one and having a maxed out enhancement for sonic damage bard now I have to say this would be a poor idea.

Bards have strong reasons to include them in parties now and contribute strongly to parties as is. Adding something like the truly devastating DoT spells that were given to arcanes and divines would change bards from a very good option in a party to almost a must have...and spell singers become that much more dominant in current end game also as a side effect.

Isn’t a very good option synonymous with an almost must have?

This wouldn't be giving Bards the truly devastating DoT spells that were given to arcanes and divines; it would be giving them a new spell. How devastating it would or would not be is hard to argue about as the specifics of the damage mechanics have yet to be outlined because the spell does not exist. It would be best to argue how overpowered the spell is once this is done.

If you think it being equal to the other DoT spells is too much, is that really reason to say it shouldn’t be?

Isn’t it better to say that it could work, but only if not as powerful as other caster’s DoTs? A weaker version of these spells is better than no version, depending on shout.

If this is the case please specify how much damage is too much and how much is enough in your opinion.