Divine Phoenix – an unarmed human healing amp build (15 Paladin, 4 Monk, 1 Rogue)

[arrethyn]

Just posting to say i'm on my first of 3 lives with this build, mostly for the paladin past lives, and so far I love it. I made some small adjustments since i'm using it expressly to tr. I dropped cha by 2 to boost int to 12 for both trap skills and more skill points but other than that the same. Great survivability while still doing decent damage and a blast to play. Thanks Whomhead and rock on pally monks

[MeatSheild]

Yeah... no. That's SolarDawning's build, which was a major inspiration for me in putting this build together. My goals for this build were to leverage high healing amp, though not maximal, with better damage output for a more versatile character that is suited very well to soloing and grouping (not that his build isn't). Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

Oops, my bad

[Untfell]

Hey Whomhead,

SO I have been rocking this build as a non-TR and loving it, thasnk again!

I have plans to TR soon and complete my monk past life, and may even add a cpl of other lives into the mix, with an ultimate goal to come back to your DV.

However, given that tomes will remain with characters forever after the next update, I got to thinking about what else I could do with my DV.

I have a +3 Supreme Tome in the bank and was experimenting with how that might allow me to add a little bit of a different feel to the build.

Here's a rough draft (it's 3am for me right now, so it is pretty rough), I was hoping to get a little feedback on my idea. My main concern is the STAT spread, but any comments otherwise are welcome and appreciated.

Cheers.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 4 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 367
Spell Points: 185 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 19
Will: 13

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             15                 23                   24
Dexterity            15                 18                   18
Constitution         13                 16                   17
Intelligence         16                 19                   19
Wisdom                8                 11                   11
Charisma             13                 16                   17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 14                   14
Bluff                 1                  3                    3
Concentration         3                 20                   23
Diplomacy             1                  3                    3
Disable Device        7                 27                   27
Haggle                5                  7                    7
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  6                  8                    8
Intimidate            5                  7                    7
Jump                  6                 11                   11
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently         6                  8                    8
Open Lock             6                  8                    8
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                  4                    4
Search                7                 27                   27
Spot                  2                  3                    3
Swim                  2                  7                    7
Tumble                3                  5                    5
Use Magic Device      5                 26                   26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Untfell]

dbl post

[FURYous]

I tried this build to 20 with only minor tweaks to fit my playstyle, it ROCKED. It was a blast to play and always had something to contribute to groups.

+1 to the OP

[whomhead]

Hey Whomhead...

Hey Untfell,

First, I'm glad you liked the build, and that it performed well on a first life.

Looking over the build you posted it seems, based on the 16 starting intelligence, that you are primarily interested in adding the ability to do traps to your eventual character. This is a noble goal, but is easy to give up too much in exchange for it. Specifically, 16 int is almost certainly too much, and 13 cha misses out on divine might 3 which is the major reason for taking the 15th paladin level.

Here's a quick run down of how I would build a divine pheonix with trap abilities.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 4 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 209 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 20
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    23
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    17
Intelligence         13                    16
Wisdom                9                    12
Charisma             15                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     8
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         4                     7
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  5                     9
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         6                     8
Open Lock             6                     8
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     3
Search                5                    26
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      6                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

I had to give up on maxing concentration to make room for trap skills, so instead I took Quicken. This wont help with scroll healing, but you will have maximized and quickened cure spells. I'd recommend taking extend at 6, then swapping it to maximize when you hit 18 or 20. I also took combat expertise so as to qualify for the Defender of Siberys, if you're so inclined.

An alternative update to the build that I've been messing around with is to go 14/4/2 paladin/monk/fighter, and add stunning blow and fist into the build. It loses some of the solo survivability, but will have some crowd control to offer instead. Would probably go HElf with either rogue or cleric dilettante on that one.

I tried this build to 20 with only minor tweaks to fit my playstyle, it ROCKED. It was a blast to play and always had something to contribute to groups.

+1 to the OP

Thanks, and glad you have enjoyed it!

[Untfell]

Hey Untfell,

First, I'm glad you liked the build, and that it performed well on a first life.

Looking over the build you posted it seems, based on the 16 starting intelligence, that you are primarily interested in adding the ability to do traps to your eventual character. This is a noble goal, but is easy to give up too much in exchange for it. Specifically, 16 int is almost certainly too much, and 13 cha misses out on divine might 3 which is the major reason for taking the 15th paladin level.

Here's a quick run down of how I would build a divine pheonix with trap abilities.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 4 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 209 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 20
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    23
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    17
Intelligence         13                    16
Wisdom                9                    12
Charisma             15                    18

15th Pally also nets a second 4th level spell, whic is quite nice. I had forgettone about the DM requirement...it was very late when I scratched out the build.

Is the third tier all that important in your opinon? +4 vs +6. The STAT spreads below assume that 18 CHA is a must, but if tier 2 is good enough then I'lll look to spend the extra points in STR or CON/

Your extra points into DEX and WIS make little sense to me. I thin I'd prefer to drop both of those by 1 and invest in another STAT.

Here's how I have been looking at the character:

STR: As high as possible
DEX: 17 minimum for GTWF
CON: AS high as possible
INT: Minimum 16 for Search, DD, UMD, Concentration and Balance (in that order).
WIS: DUMP
CHA: 18 minimum for Divine Might III


Leaving:
STR:15
DEX:14 (+3 Tome for GTWF)
CON:14
INT:15
WIS:8
CHA:15 (+3 Tome for Divine Might III)

OF course there is a small amount of leeway here, as 5 lvl up STAT points need to be allocated sometime during the build. Could always drop a point of starting CHA (pick it back up at lvl 20 STAT increase) and put into STR, CON or (my choice) INT at creation.

I had to give up on maxing concentration to make room for trap skills, so instead I took Quicken. This wont help with scroll healing, but you will have maximized and quickened cure spells. I'd recommend taking extend at 6, then swapping it to maximize when you hit 18 or 20. I also took combat expertise so as to qualify for the Defender of Siberys, if you're so inclined.

I thought about CE, but I like the feat spread as it lies in the original build. I'll admit, it does feel off having such a high INT for the simple benefit of traps and not much else.

Personally, I think *you* are giving up too much by sacking balance and concentration, not to mention a feat for quicken. Quicken and Maximise seems somewhat risky to me on a build that only has a relatively small SP pool.

An alternative update to the build that I've been messing around with is to go 14/4/2 paladin/monk/fighter, and add stunning blow and fist into the build. It loses some of the solo survivability, but will have some crowd control to offer instead. Would probably go HElf with either rogue or cleric dilettante on that one.

Wait! You poo-poo'd me for missing divine might 3 and now this? :P

Don't really know much about Dilettante's.

Thanks, and glad you have enjoyed it!

Loved it, can't wait to get back there after some speedy TR's.

[whomhead]

Is the third tier all that important in your opinon? +4 vs +6. The STAT spreads below assume that 18 CHA is a must, but if tier 2 is good enough then I'lll look to spend the extra points in STR or CON/

Your extra points into DEX and WIS make little sense to me. I thin I'd prefer to drop both of those by 1 and invest in another STAT.

Every two points of charisma for a tier of DM gives +2 damage, but only while the ability is active. Every two points of strength gives +1/+1 hit and damage. Assuming you hit on a 2 anyway, then strength is just +1 damage. How much emphasis you put on it is up to you. Personally, I figure if you're going to take 15 levels of paladin (and you're right that the second level 4 spell is a very nice factor there), then you might as well make the investment into charisma to get there. It's only 3 build points to go from 13 to 15 charisma, so not a huge investment. If you were shooting for 20 charisma, then I'd tell you it probably isn't worth it, but 18 is significantly easier.

The extra point in dexterity is nice from a levelling perspective as it makes it possible to start taking your TWF feats earlier. With 14 you can't take TWF until level 4, after eating a +1 dex tome. Not the end of the world, obviously, but those early levels tend to be pretty loaded with available feats, and I just like punching stuff right away instead of swinging a greataxe. The one bump in wisdom was mostly because I had an extra stat point that had to go somewhere. Wisdom seemed good, since starting with a 9 will put you at an even number after a +3 tome and a +6 item. If you've got Litany, then starting with an even number will make it even in the end. None of these are major things in the end, which brings me to...

Here's how I have been looking at the character:

STR: As high as possible
DEX: 17 minimum for GTWF
CON: AS high as possible
INT: Minimum 16 for Search, DD, UMD, Concentration and Balance (in that order).
WIS: DUMP
CHA: 18 minimum for Divine Might III


Leaving:
STR:15
DEX:14 (+3 Tome for GTWF)
CON:14
INT:15
WIS:8
CHA:15 (+3 Tome for Divine Might III)

OF course there is a small amount of leeway here, as 5 lvl up STAT points need to be allocated sometime during the build. Could always drop a point of starting CHA (pick it back up at lvl 20 STAT increase) and put into STR, CON or (my choice) INT at creation.

That should all work just fine. I was trying to minimize the investment in Int mostly on matters of principle - I would just hate to have a melee character with higher starting int than strength, ya know? But there's nothing wrong with it. And you're right that if you want all of those skills, then you need a significant amount of int.

Since you can relatively easily get 15 starting charisma, I wouldn't recommend setting the character up so that it requires stat bumps there during levelling. If you think of it in terms of build points, the first bump into strength from 15 to 16 is worth 2 build points, so that's a wash between it and charisma. After that, the next two are worth 3 build points, and the last 2 aren't even possible to value in that way since 18 is your max. Which is all a very long way of saying that those stat bumps into strength are valuable, and I wouldn't readily give them up.

I thought about CE, but I like the feat spread as it lies in the original build. I'll admit, it does feel off having such a high INT for the simple benefit of traps and not much else.

Personally, I think *you* are giving up too much by sacking balance and concentration, not to mention a feat for quicken. Quicken and Maximise seems somewhat risky to me on a build that only has a relatively small SP pool.

The major advantage of CE is that it qualifies you for the Defender PrE. There is no healing amp associated with that prestige, so it may not be to your liking, but the Defenders got a major boost since I wrote the original build, making it a very desirable option for levelling and at end-game. I gave up a toughness feat for CE, which basically exchanges 22 HP, and nothing else since this is the 2nd toughness, for +4 strength AND con, and around 65 hitpoints from the 15% increase from tier 2 DoS. That's an incredibly worthy tradeoff, in my opinion. If you don't want CE, then I'd strongly consider Diehard as it also can be taken as a monk special feat and also qualifies for DoS.

Wait! You poo-poo'd me for missing divine might 3 and now this? :P

Hehe, yeah you read it right! I may not have said it in the last post, but my thinking on it is that a paladin should take the highest tier of DM that they can, up to and including tier 3. Tier 4 is just too expensive for most builds. The stunner build has to invest in wisdom as well as the rest, so it is incredibly MAD. Going 14 paladin frees me from the restrictions of trying to hit 18 charisma, and 2 fighter gets two bonus feats and +1 strength, which goes a little ways to making up for the loss of DM3.

[whomhead]

Just thought about it a little further, and you might consider going for starting stats of 17/14/14/14/8/13. You wont get DM3, which I know I said not to do, but you do get a nice beefy ending strength of an unmodified 25, which is nice. *shrugs* If you go that way you could even drop to 14 paladin and take a second rogue level... that would make getting all of your desired skills quite a bit easier. Of course you lose that second level 4 spell. *shrugs again*

EDIT: or 16/14/14/14/8/15 and still go with 15 paladin levels. You'd have to give up on balance as a skill, but that's probably not the end of the world.

[Lifespawn]

Just thought about it a little further, and you might consider going for starting stats of 17/14/14/14/8/13. You wont get DM3, which I know I said not to do, but you do get a nice beefy ending strength of an unmodified 25, which is nice. *shrugs* If you go that way you could even drop to 14 paladin and take a second rogue level... that would make getting all of your desired skills quite a bit easier. Of course you lose that second level 4 spell. *shrugs again*

EDIT: or 16/14/14/14/8/15 and still go with 15 paladin levels. You'd have to give up on balance as a skill, but that's probably not the end of the world.

dm while it's up is awesome but the activation time and duration make it a net loss in boss fights unless you have tier 3

[Arakasia]

An excellent question! And one that is surprisingly hard to answer. The primary feat that I have wanted to fit into this build is Quicken to make all the heals uninterruptable. However, since that's a metamagic feat, you can't take it until you get an SP bar, which doesn't happen until level 4 paladin. Sadly then, that is not an option for the level 3 feat.

Instead, I would propose you take one of the following, though none are particularly compelling:
Toughness - that would make number 3 for the build, which is two more than I'd prefer. While more HP is always good, I can't fight the feeling that something else would be more useful, though I haven't come up with much.

Quickdraw - a nice feat to help get more out of your action boosts and speeds up throwing weapons. Both of these are fairly marginal benefits as you'll only have 5 action boosts, and let's be honest, throwing weapons are going to be almost entirely useless with or without quickdraw. Nevertheless, this is much more stylish than another toughness.

Force of personality - applies your charisma mod to your will saves. Charisma will be stellar, and will is the lowest save, however the saves are already through the roof on this build, so the benefit is, once again, minimal.

Skill focus: UMD - +3 to UMD is nice for not having to swap items as much before you craft a +6 charisma skills shroud item. On a first life character who wont have greensteel already made this might actually provide the greatest utility.

Weapon focus: bludgeon - +1 attack is good, but outside of epic bosses you'll hit everything on all but a 1 anyway.

So those are the options and some analysis. Pick whichever one suits your playstyle best. Fortunately, while none of the options are particularly compelling, none of them are particularly bad either. That counts for something, right!?!

I'm about to do a TR, and as I have a capped monk, was thinking this would be a good way to go, but I enjoy playing him at cap and where I have a pure cleric that I don't enjoy anymore, was thinking this would be a better choice, so I would be taking the cleric past life feat healing word..

Is that a feasible choice?????

[whomhead]

It sure seems like it could work. With big healing amp and the boosts to healing spells it should hit for a decent amount of HP - somewhere in the range of 200 to 300 HP at cap. Some folks spend three feats to get dragonmark-based healing on a halfling, and this compares quite favorably to that scenario. I'd say it is definitely no worse of a choice than another toughness.

If you go for it, please let me know how it works out!

[mrtweakin]

Starting my second go at this build on my monk to get him some pally lives (will be doing this two or three times). I played it on another toon and loved it. This time I think I will be going for trap skills; but this toon is heavily geared and fully +3 tomed, so I think I can pull it off. It was also a 36pt build, so my starting int was 10. I'll report back with how it goes.

A blast to play, very soloable and provides a lot when grouping.

[magnvix]

Hello! whomhead, just wanted to say thanks for the interesting build idea. Basically a few months ago I saw this build and TR'd my 20monk into this. I was wondering what might have changed since this build was written? I left the game for about 5 or 6 months and am just coming back now.

I think when this build was made, Fist of Light didn't just scale with monk levels, and so now, as I understand it anyway, fists of light is not going to be hitting anywhere near a hundred HP per hit. I'm currently level 9 and am feeling a little underpowered. Since I TR'd my only 20 (huge mistake) I can't really twink this guy like I would like to. I have some leftover gear, but I didn't TR in with the items that I could have (worse mistake).

Was thinking to LR this build into something else, but figured I'd come here and ask what's up since I don't have the money to LR it anyway.

Thanks in advance

[whomhead]

Hello! whomhead, just wanted to say thanks for the interesting build idea. Basically a few months ago I saw this build and TR'd my 20monk into this. I was wondering what might have changed since this build was written? I left the game for about 5 or 6 months and am just coming back now.

I think when this build was made, Fist of Light didn't just scale with monk levels, and so now, as I understand it anyway, fists of light is not going to be hitting anywhere near a hundred HP per hit. I'm currently level 9 and am feeling a little underpowered. Since I TR'd my only 20 (huge mistake) I can't really twink this guy like I would like to. I have some leftover gear, but I didn't TR in with the items that I could have (worse mistake).

Was thinking to LR this build into something else, but figured I'd come here and ask what's up since I don't have the money to LR it anyway.

Thanks in advance

The change to the healing finisher is a real shame as it would make the build even more effective if it still scaled off of character level, but it doesn't. I still use it on my monk splashes since it is basically free healing, minimal though it may be. Expect it to hit you for 30-50 HP at cap, once you have all of your healing amp gear.


Other than that, the aren't any major game changes that would affect how the build plays, especially at level 9. This makes me think that your problem likely revolves around gearing, as you suggested. I would be happy to advise you, but first need to know a bit more about your character. What gear are you using right now would be a good place to start. Also, is there anything more specific you can say about your problem other than just that you're feeling underpowered?

If you have decent crafting levels you can make some really nice stuff to crank up the effectiveness of your character. Wraps with an elemental damage prefix (shocking or acid are great) and the bleeding suffix will deal great damage. Eventually upgrade to holyburst of bleeding and you will mow through mobs. You can also get some good mileage out of a robe/outfit of invulnerability. Up until about gianthold those will significantly decrease incoming damage. After that try to fit DR specific to each of the major types of damage, especially piercing and slashing. beyond that advice I'll need some more specifics before I can help you.

[magnvix]

The change to the healing finisher is a real shame as it would make the build even more effective if it still scaled off of character level, but it doesn't. I still use it on my monk splashes since it is basically free healing, minimal though it may be. Expect it to hit you for 30-50 HP at cap, once you have all of your healing amp gear.


Other than that, the aren't any major game changes that would affect how the build plays, especially at level 9. This makes me think that your problem likely revolves around gearing, as you suggested. I would be happy to advise you, but first need to know a bit more about your character. What gear are you using right now would be a good place to start. Also, is there anything more specific you can say about your problem other than just that you're feeling underpowered?

If you have decent crafting levels you can make some really nice stuff to crank up the effectiveness of your character. Wraps with an elemental damage prefix (shocking or acid are great) and the bleeding suffix will deal great damage. Eventually upgrade to holyburst of bleeding and you will mow through mobs. You can also get some good mileage out of a robe/outfit of invulnerability. Up until about gianthold those will significantly decrease incoming damage. After that try to fit DR specific to each of the major types of damage, especially piercing and slashing. beyond that advice I'll need some more specifics before I can help you.

Alright so basically now I have gear such as standard +4/5 stat items, protection, and might of abashi set. I'm feeling a little underpowered with respect to my survivability. With low AC and not a consistent income of healing, solo/small group play is kind of difficult without a healer. Even with one I find myself dying from time to time in times where I wish I could excel.

As for as wraps goes, I don't really have good ones and am working on crafting levels currently, but it's a slow process.

I was mostly just curious if the loss of FoL was significant, but if you don't think it is, than I'll continue this character once I have the gear to do it.

[whomhead]

On a paladin you can use cure wands without UMD, so the self-healing problem shouldn't be a very big one. With the healing amp on this build even at level 9 a cure moderate or serious wand will hit you for probably 40-50 HP. That should be enough to get you through pretty much any quest even without a healer. Solo questing on a melee typically requires a slower style of gameplay, unlike the zerging and blasting that arcanes can get away with. If you take the time to heal in between fights you will be just fine.

Also, I would strongly suggest crafting or buying a Lifeshield outfit of Invulnerability. That one item will seriously improve your survivability.

[magnvix]

On a paladin you can use cure wands without UMD, so the self-healing problem shouldn't be a very big one. With the healing amp on this build even at level 9 a cure moderate or serious wand will hit you for probably 40-50 HP. That should be enough to get you through pretty much any quest even without a healer. Solo questing on a melee typically requires a slower style of gameplay, unlike the zerging and blasting that arcanes can get away with. If you take the time to heal in between fights you will be just fine.

Also, I would strongly suggest crafting or buying a Lifeshield outfit of Invulnerability. That one item will seriously improve your survivability.

Thanks for the help man. I'll get on this.

[Myrrae]

So I'm looking to try a Divine Phoenix for a first life... and have a few questions

From reading through the thread, it sounds like it might not be a bad idea to switch things up by doing the following:
Level 2 - monk bonus feat - Stunning Fist
Level 3 feat - power attack (no monk past life to take here anyway!)
Next monk bonus feat - Improved Sunder

That would get basically replace one toughness and the 'blank' feat at level 3 with improved sunder and stunning first. Does that make sense to do?

Also, I'm curious about the level order. I know you need paladin 3 by 6 for extend, and you want evasion with monk 2. Why monk at 9? Instead of 7? I'm guessing that postponing the 4th level of monk is to pick up the tier 2 prestige before whatever monk 4 gets?

And finally, on skills - do you need to max UMD every level, or is there a cut off? With the limited skill points you can't really max it and keep up as well on the concentration & balance. Why concentration, btw? Do you do a lot of in combat scrolling?

Thanks for what looks like an interesting build!

[whomhead]

So I'm looking to try a Divine Phoenix for a first life... and have a few questions

From reading through the thread, it sounds like it might not be a bad idea to switch things up by doing the following:
Level 2 - monk bonus feat - Stunning Fist
Level 3 feat - power attack (no monk past life to take here anyway!)
Next monk bonus feat - Improved Sunder

That would get basically replace one toughness and the 'blank' feat at level 3 with improved sunder and stunning first. Does that make sense to do?

Also, I'm curious about the level order. I know you need paladin 3 by 6 for extend, and you want evasion with monk 2. Why monk at 9? Instead of 7? I'm guessing that postponing the 4th level of monk is to pick up the tier 2 prestige before whatever monk 4 gets?

And finally, on skills - do you need to max UMD every level, or is there a cut off? With the limited skill points you can't really max it and keep up as well on the concentration & balance. Why concentration, btw? Do you do a lot of in combat scrolling?

Thanks for what looks like an interesting build!

Hey Myrrae, sorry for missing your post here for a bit. I've been looking at other parts of the forums pretty exclusively.

First, I think that your plan is a pretty good one for the feats on a first-life build. Stunning fist is a great ability, but make sure that you'll be able to hit workable DCs by the time you're at cap. Once you're geared that wont be too much of a problem, but while leveling I guess most mobs will save against it. With stunning +10 wraps and the Epic Spare Hand belt you'll have 10 + 10 + 10 + 5 (=35) + your wis mod.

The original build dumps wisdom because stunning fist was still based off of monk levels when I created it. If you're aiming to stun it may be worth dropping a point out of charisma and/or strength to boost up that wis mod a bit. With dumped wis I'd expect something along the lines of a 3-4 wis mod (so 38-39 DC and you can add +3 if you soften them up with improved sunder first). That will hit epic casters pretty reliably, but you'll have to get lucky to hit most other stuff. I still think that's the way to go on a 1st life since it offers more utility than would an extra toughness.

An alternative is to go with a 14/4/2 Paladin/Monk/Fighter. This has the benefit of letting you go with 14 starting CHA since DM3 is out of the question, and also gives two more feats. If you take stunning blow with one of those bonus feats, then you can get +1 stun DC from fighter enhancements. The fighter levels also opens up the Defender of Siberys PrE, which got a big boost sometime after I made the OP. The greatest downside to this class split is the loss of UMD. How much you value that is a personal choice, and mostly revolves around how extensively you plan to solo quest. If minimal soloing then UMD is less useful, if you want to solo the really tough stuff then you'll need it.

For your other questions, you need 4 paladin levels at 6 to take extend (you said 3 in your post). The rest is to get the paladin PrE, then monk to get fists of light. The 4th monk level offers almost nothing except for the damage increase, which is not at all essential while leveling, hence why monk 4 is taken at 20.

I took concentration as it boosts your standing ki pool and allows casting cure spells while getting damaged. The usefulness of UMD is pretty much maxed out at a buffed/geared 40 skill level, where you can use heal scrolls. If you know you can get there with whatever gear/buffs you have (there is much better gear that has been released with UMD on it since I originally posted), then you may not need full ranks. If it came down to it, I would put less emphasis on concentration/balance and focus on keeping UMD maxed, assuming you don't go the fighter/stunning route.