The Master Controller – Optimum melee tactics/cc/debuff build 12FTR/7MONK/1ROG

[Nick_RC]

Just a quick update having leveled the build to 20..

Dont play this build on a 32p platform. Its awful in endgame play.

It does what it set out to do offensively but just cannot take the hits. Its actually a fun build and was great to level with but the stats are spread to thin on 32p. Ideally you'd want to play it at 36p with a +3 dex tome banked to free up more points for con. Offensively tactics wise it was nice although definately was a bit light on the too hit side of things post U9 until I got ravens sight crafted. Im currently using epic spectrals/hot swapped with brawlers gloves if I dont need the too hit + raven sight and gem with epic bracers of the hunter for sneak. not bothering with seeker item what it adds is just not worth it anymore. Epic Gloves of the claw would replace brawlers if I wanted to dedicate the recourses into equipping him.

I believe this would be a very sound build on a multiple trd toon (especially with fighter past lives to help too hit and tactics) with good existing gear.

N



Yes this is specifically built to abuse the new stunning fist changes. I think the change is great - the first non-purist move I've seen in a while. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

N

I love a good tactics build. Not just one that CAN trip or stun things. That’s not a tactics build in my mind- that’s just a (hopefully) DPS build that gets these as a byproduct of a high str etc. A real tactics build is one who’s playstyle is dictated by his tactical cooldowns. With the change to stunning fist coming next mod, sorcs going more nuking, and epic saves going up I’m guessing there will be a lot less crowd control involved in game play…and CC always is good for a healers sp bar. It’s a different mindset than a straight DPS’er. You need to not worry about kill counts but take satisfaction in what you can do to change the field of battle. This is important. You also HAVE to play with hotkeys and have a ‘twitchy’ playstyle. If this doesn’t apply to you then don’t bother with this build. Once I figure out how to post videos I will post some so people can see how to play it. I will add a playstyle guide(Which really is the meat of the build) and FAQ tomorrow when I get a chance. I will roll this on Khyber this week methinks.

Disclaimer: No tomes higher than +2 and 32p build. However I have tweaked out the equipment to see what it can do on a 32p platform and have used common buffs. Deal with it.

MAIN GOALS
1. Control the field of battle through Improved Trip, Stunning blow, Stunning Fist, Sap and Hamstring.
2. Help in raid boss situations by having the hamstring feat (yes the chosen feat does still slow down raid bosses)
3. Be able to solo epic mobs easily as a melee, without huge resources or weird kiting.
4. Be self sufficient via UMD scrolls, good saves, hp, and most importantly your own CC!

WARFORGED, LAWFUL NUETRAL 12 FTR/7MONK/1ROG

STR - 16(10) + 5(lvl)+3(abishai)+2 (rage)+6(item) +3 (exc) + 8 (surge)+ 2(fire)+2 (ship)+ 2( tome)+2 (Madstone)+2 Yugo +1 enh= 56
DEX – 15(8) +2 (tome) +6 (item) +1 (Exc) +2 (Ship) =26 dex
CON – 11(1) +1 (tome) + 7(item) +1 (Exc) +2 (ship) +2 (rage) +6 (madstone) = 26 con
INT -11 (3) + 2 tome (For CE and impr trip)
WIS – 14 (10) + 7 (item) + 2(yugo) + 2 (tome)+ 2 (ship) + 3 (exc) + 2 (enh) – 2 (fire) = 30 <this could very well be windstance at cap time will tell.
CHA – 6 (0)+ 6 (item) +2 (tome) + 2 (ship) = 16

Con is low but thought I’d keep it a 32p build for once. Why Im comfortable with having 11 con is because 1.) You wont have the threat/dps/ac to be a good main tank so forget that and 2.) Trash u fight will be CC’d (by you)and not swinging back for the most part. Obviously 34/36p would add 20/40hp respectively. Fighter/monk are both excellent choices and multiple fighter past lives would just put this over the top. Ideally you would have a +3 dex and +3 int tome banked. You could reduce each of those stats by 1 and pump con up to 15.

FEATS AND LEVEL PROGRESSION
1Rogue
2-3 Monk
4-5 Fighter
6 Monk
7-16 Fighter
17-20 Monk

1.(ROG) 2 Weapon Fighting
2.(MON) Stunning Fist
3.(MON) Power Attack, Stunning Blow
4. (FTR) Sap
5. (FTR) Weapon Focus : Bludgeon
6. (MON). Path of harmonious balance, Quickdraw
8. (FTR). Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9.(FTR) Combat Expertise
10.(FTR) I crit Bludgeon
12. (FTR) Improved Trip, Hamstring
14. (FTR) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeon
15. (FTR) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. (FTR) Greater Weapon Specialization
18. (MON) Dodge, Toughness

SKILLS
UMD (MAX) = 23 +3(cha) +4 (GH) +2 (Luck) = [32 without hotswapping capable of 40+ with a hotswap)
Concentration (As high as you can- second most important skill)
Spot (Anything left over)

+Whatever you want at level 1 with free rog bonus. I would suggest: 1 Tumble, 1 OL, Balance, etc.

TACTICS DC'S (Before any relevant fighter past lives)

Stunning Blow – 10 (Base) + 10 (Stunning 10) + 22 (Strength) +3 (WF tactics) + 2 (Kensai)+3 (Ftr stun) = 50
Stunning Fist – 10 (Base) + 10 (1/2 level) + 10 (Stunning 10) + 3(WF tactics) + 2 (kensai) + 3 (ftr stun) + 10(wis) = 48 DC
Improved Trip – 14 (Base) + 23 str + 3 (WF Racial)+3 (ftr trip) + 2 (kensai II) = 45 DC (55 dc w/vertigo wraps)
Hamstring – No save! Just need to hit.
Sap – No save! Just need to hit. Infinate hypno.

HIT POINTS
20 Base
120 Fighter
56 Monk
6 Rog
22 Tough
40 Toughness
30 GFL
160 Con
10 AoA

= 464hp. (420ish without madstone) – Definitely light hp wise but so be it.

HIT

+23 Str
+19 BAB
+4 GH
+4 Ravens Sight
+2 Kensai
+1 WF
+1 Haste
+2 Boat
+5 Weapon
-7 PA
= +54 self/ship buffed.


SAVES (Passeable in all areas – not uber, not poor – decent will save for a melee)

F -13(Class) +4 (GH) +5 (Res) + 8(Stat) + 2 (Luck) +1 (Alch) = 33
R – 11(Class) +4 (GH) +5 (Res) + 8(Stat) + 2 (Luck) +1 (Alch)+1 Haste = 32
W – 9 (Class) +4 (GH) +5 (Res) + 10(Stat) + 2 (Luck) +1 (Alch) +3 (Epic)=34

ENHANCEMENTS (80)

WARFORGED [ 21]
WF PA II (3)
WF HF I (2)
Tactics III (12)
Toughness 2(3)

FIGHTER [40]
Kensai II (6)
Attack Boost II (3)
Critical Accuracy II(3)
Haste Boost IV (10)
Toughness I (1)
Strength I (2)
Specified Weapon I (1)
Kensai Mastery II (2)
Stun III (6)
Trip III (6)

ROGUE[1]
Sneak Attack Training 1

MONK [15]
Wisdom II (6)
Improved recovery 1(2)
Ninja Spy I (4)
Tumble II (2)
Jump II (2)
Static charge (2)

TENTATIVE GEAR LIST.

Subject to change. Not too worried I don’t have a seeker item, but definitely would like to fit in sneak somewhere.

H – Mroranon - +7 Wisdom + 15 Intim +1 Exc Wis
N – Shintao + 15 conc/Hit points
T – Gem of many facets +6 Cha
C – Envenomed - +7con, +5 resist, toughness
Be – Knosts +6 con GFL
Bo –Corrosion w/ ASF, +1 Exc Con
Br – Scorched w/ luck. +1 Exc Dex
R1 – encrusted w/ +2 str
R2 –Shintao w/holy burst
Gl – Claw +6 str
Gog – Ravens Sight +2 exc. wis (+4 to hit)
Bod – Red Dragonscale w/ Heavy fort and +6 Dex

Sets: Vulkoors Might/Abishai/Ravens Sight

GAMEPLAY SECTION
To come.

BUILD CHOICES

1.Why warforged over dwarf or half orc?
- Warforged does more dps than a dwarf unarmed and loses only 1 wisdom tier.
- Warforged have more hit points than a HO...something this build is light on - and can get 2 higher SF DC's.
- Warforged are the ultimate zerg race at all levels. All the immunites (no fatigue hindering your movement etc) means less time you need to spend buffing/curing urself and more time getting in front of the party and doing what you were built to do.

2. Why 7 monk/1rog instead of 8 monk?
- The 8th level in monk does get me another fist upgrade but considering you will benefit from your sneak attack dmg in most situations (back of a raid boss, stunned trash) it will do more dmg overall in my mind than the extra dice step.
- The 1 rog also opens up hamstring which is an awesome feat especially if you run ToD elite often - another underutilised feat.
- Close to full umd with little gear switching.


Thats it for now il post more on it later. Currently power leveling this guy so will write detailed notes after I cap.

N

[Kam-Ekaze]

I really like this build for originality and unique playstyle.

+1 sir.

[sephiroth1084]

WARFORGED [ 21]
WF PA III (6)
WF HF I (2)
Tactics III (12)
Toughness 2(3)

FIGHTER [42]
Kensai II (6)
Attack Boost II (3)
Critical Accuracy II(3)
Haste Boost IV (10)
Toughness II (3)
Strength I (2)
Specified Weapon I (1)
Kensai Mastery II (2)
Stun III (6)
Trip III (6)

ROGUE[1]
Sneak Attack Training 1

MONK [13]
Adept of Fire (2)
Adep of Wind (2)
Adept of earth (2)
Adept of Rain (2)
Wisdom I (2)
Improved recovery 1(2)
Tortoise (1)
Fists of light (1)

Why are you taking the second rank in all 4 stances? For the strikes? Do you need Tortoise? Why are you listing Fists of Light as costing an action point?

You could drop 2 of the stances and Fighter Trip III for Ninja Spy (or could lose some AP elsewhere). There's a lot you could drop for +1d6 SA and Shadow Fade. I think not including it is a mistake here as it's just soooo good.

[Limey]

Looks like fun to play, does this build have potential for any meaningful AC?

[Nick_RC]

Why are you taking the second rank in all 4 stances? For the strikes? Do you need Tortoise? Why are you listing Fists of Light as costing an action point?

You could drop 2 of the stances and Fighter Trip III for Ninja Spy (or could lose some AP elsewhere). There's a lot you could drop for +1d6 SA and Shadow Fade. I think not including it is a mistake here as it's just soooo good.

Heh was up pretty early figuring it all out...yeah i could easily drop skill foucs umd and the above ap (not losing the trip tho) to fit it in. Il tinker with it in a lil. It was my original plan to do that but i put stances in to begin with.

N

[rodallec]

ah sigh i was about to post a build with the exact same level split on a totally different concept. now i just dont feel original enough and yours looks better.
nice work though.

[JollySwagMan]

Hamstring! That's what I've been missing!

I've tried out Improved Feint on an earlier variant of this, but the break in attack cycle and disruption of ki combos was way too annoying. Could be useful on a build with more Rogue levels and Cleave though.

This is the first type of character that I have capped, the dynamic combat style helps keeps things fresh. My regret is not maxing out Intimidate, levelling up mostly solo I made more use of Faster Sneaking and Monk speed for an Assassin-esque playstyle...but when grouping I found that liberal use of Intimidate helps the tactical focus to shine. With update 9's changes to Intimidate I am unsure if this will remain an effective way of keeping random PUGs from impaling themselves on enemy swords, but it may still be feasible.

Regarding update 9 and the changes to helpless states, I have wondered whether perhaps there will now be more synergy between a melee stunner and magic nukers...

I took Dodge as my Monk 6 feat at 19 on my Dwarf Fighter 12/Monk 7/Rogue 1, with the intent to swap Harmonious Balance for Inevitable Dominion, mostly for the increase to sneaking speed...but I found that I couldn't afford the APs. Also, I think I'd miss the Fire buff to UMD/saves, but that could be made up with Greensteel/Exceptional Cha/Epic pirate trinket. I think I might swap out Dodge for Hamstring now, and possibly one of my Toughness feats for Sap (presuming that the endorsement of your build/the new animation would make it more recognisable to party members)

Here is how mine levelled out (including the random points I put into Swim when asked to do the Crucible...yeah...)

(tactical DCs vary between 28-43 depending upon what gear/stance is being used, no guild/titan/madstone etc. have been able to stun/trip everything in the content I own, but I don't have Amrath/haven't gone into Epics yet)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Brewstone Ironhold, Unarmed Kensai
(Dirty Fighter and Sneaky Fellow)
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 371
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    23
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         15                    17
Intelligence         13                    14
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 4
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    24
Bluff                -2                     0
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy            -2                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  7                     7
Intimidate           -2                     6
Jump                  2                    22
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         7                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   4
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     4
Spot                  2                     3
Swim                  2                     8
Tumble                7                     7
Use Magic Device     n/a                   24

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 8 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+9)


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 20 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[Nick_RC]

Why are you taking the second rank in all 4 stances? For the strikes? Do you need Tortoise? Why are you listing Fists of Light as costing an action point?

You could drop 2 of the stances and Fighter Trip III for Ninja Spy (or could lose some AP elsewhere). There's a lot you could drop for +1d6 SA and Shadow Fade. I think not including it is a mistake here as it's just soooo good.

Dropped the strikes and fiddled around a bit and worked it all out - ninja spy is in now and im very happy about it. Hadnt made up my mind and you helped me make it so cheers!

N

Thanks all for the comments guys will reply in detail later - got to take off.

[slimkj]

I know I said something similar in your monk build discussion too but if you like the zerg, and I'm fairly confident you do, then 1 Rgr is a solid choice too. DPS is king, of course, but sprint boost for the fun!

Edit: Given the popularity of some of your other builds, I look forward to the fun that will be forthcoming from a load of unskilled copycat 11 CON builds. Lawl!

[JollySwagMan]

Looking up Hamstring on DDO Wiki, it says that it has no save? Is this an outdated description?

And would the ideal weapon for it/Tendon Slice be a (DR breaking) Kama? I have picked up some tendon slice weapons to try using on a Marilith, but they're non-ki weapons, slowing down my attacks and lowering my Strength from Fire Stance (which I try and keep with Rage and Power Boost (for 40str) in order to ensure no knockdowns vs enemies with Overrun). More Strength would help of course, but the switch out of stance is perhaps more distracting. If only Quickdraw affected switching between Monk stances!

[Dark-Star]

Another nice idea!

With the changes to intimidate, it's almost a shame not to look at incorporating that in some way, especialy on a WF that can plug in a Docent of Defiance and shield block if needed tankning bosses; your incredible DR will make up for your lower hit points. The new bluff might even be fun to incorporate as it no longer interupts your attack chain. This is the Master Controller after all, why not have the ability to make the mobs do whatever you want?

The stats are SUPER tight, but you might even want to consider blaspheming and start with a *gasp* 14 str and a higher cha, then work in a +6 cha skills item. Your to-hit will still be very very high, and the difference between 49 and 50 stunning blow DC will be all but unnoticable, your stunning fist is what gets most of the use anyway. In exchange you give yourself great versatility.

One small typo, fire stance gives -2 wisdom, not -1. While we're at it... fire stance. Again with stunning fist getting the most action (6 second timer vs. 15 on blow, or in other words you are hitting SF 5 times every 30 seconds and SB only twice), this is the DC you want to pump. IMO, windstance is the way to go here, and 2.5% double strike (up to 5 strikes unarmed), means not only more DPS, but more tactics. MOAR TACTICS! Plus wind does not detract from any of your tactics stats.

If you are not going to tank, I'd strongly consider dwarf for the synergy with light path. If WF (and a quasi tank), I'd go dark path, since you will get next to no benefit from the healing curse, and Shadow Fade is very powerful. Your healing amp is also groanable at 85% or so, so why not just abandon light path all together? Your stated goal is self-sufficiency with healing ki. Dwarf also gives you +1 to stunning fist DC over a WF. You gain +3 to hit over a WF, and make up 1 damage wearing Garments of Equilibrium.

My older version of this split is here, it's a bit dated in the write up, and a slightly different approach (more AC and HPs, no Sap or Hamstring, etc.). There are still some friends that run that build successfully today. I think you are spot on with this being one of the best splits for U9, and for a skilled tactical player, your version will very very fun to play and group with.

The really big question for me is will this guy wear pants? Not sure I can take runnng with you in Epic Lederhosen on yet another toon!

Secret screen shot of Groan:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Nick_RC]

Looks like fun to play, does this build have potential for any meaningful AC?

Honestly leveling up it sure does. At cap I take the 'never gonna be high enough so not gonna bother approach. I think it could be possible to get one even at cap - ur wisdom and dex are decent to start with. Il have a look at what I can get togeather.

N

Hamstring! That's what I've been missing!

This is the first type of character that I have capped, the dynamic combat style helps keeps things fresh. My regret is not maxing out Intimidate,

Regarding update 9 and the changes to helpless states, I have wondered whether perhaps there will now be more synergy between a melee stunner and magic nukers...

Yah this guy is holding 8 atm and its crazy how many buttons you need to push and how much flexibility you have...on a melee. I thought my final monk life on groan was nutso for clicking potential but this guy just adds another laye on top of that. Honestly it will definately take some getting used to to make sure its kept at 100% fighting capability. I think half the problem is the mobs have to few hit points at the moment for me to get a good aproximation of how it will fight end game. Im trying to get back into the swing of;

1. Sap - nastiest creature (pick out before the other teammates get their so the hypno sign is obvious)
2. Stunning blow next
3. Stunning fist
4. Impr trip
5. Dps couple of seconds/hasteboost
6. Re-sap/Stunning fist
7. Impr trip
8. Stunning blow
9 Stunning fist

Ad Nauseum!

At the moment unless im running on elite difficulty (which im kind of a fan of to get an early start to the rhythm of how he will play later on) its more like

1. Sap (5% hp left)
2. Dead
3. Dead
4. Stunning fist (5% health left)
5. Dead

etc etc. Kind of annoying. I will faithfully pug out the rest of the spots today in group to get rid of stupid dungeon scaling.

Its a blast to play at the moment and it will be silly when U9 changes go live!

N

I know I said something similar in your monk build discussion too but if you like the zerg, and I'm fairly confident you do, then 1 Rgr is a solid choice too. DPS is king, of course, but sprint boost for the fun!

Edit: Given the popularity of some of your other builds, I look forward to the fun that will be forthcoming from a load of unskilled copycat 11 CON builds. Lawl!

Yah I considered 1 Ranger just for sprint boost - getting out in front of the group is REALLY important on this guy so you can get it ccd before everyone else arrives. Its more difficult to do on a melee than a caster as a caster can throw down cc, sort of fire and forget and move on to the next mobs...while a melee version needs to finish up and continue applying his cc at close range. Been playing my blittz to long - this guy needs to be moving to the next mobs earlier and leave the mopping up to others. I ended up going rog for a touch more dps and utility but either option is just fine.

Im actually kinda hoping this one doesnt take off lol. Its really tough to get the hangof to really get the most out of it. Very Very clicking intensive...Im ok with 11 con but I'm a bit leery suggesting it to others. 36p and 2 banked +3 tomes wuold go a long way to shoring up hp problems.

N

Looking up Hamstring on DDO Wiki, it says that it has no save? Is this an outdated description?

And would the ideal weapon for it/Tendon Slice be a (DR breaking) Kama? I have picked up some tendon slice weapons to try using on a Marilith, but they're non-ki weapons, slowing down my attacks and lowering my Strength from Fire Stance (which I try and keep with Rage and Power Boost (for 40str) in order to ensure no knockdowns vs enemies with Overrun). More Strength would help of course, but the switch out of stance is perhaps more distracting. If only Quickdraw affected switching between Monk stances!

I always was under the impression it had a save...seems little point in having +x tendon slice weapons if there is no reason to add to the DC to the save. I havnt played around with it in a while but il be taking it at level 12 which I should be at early evening so will test it better and report back.

At the moment if I can find the space in my inventory Im looking at a debuff set-up in the form of Impr cursespewing of shattermantle/X of tendon slice. keeping a riad boss shattermantled is kinda nice every time you reapply the hamstring affect as it helps weaker casters get debuffs through spell resistance. Yeah kamas will be ur weapon of choice - il think more about weapon set ups when i get closer to cap - if you think of some nice combos LMK!

N

[SpearKicker]

I was told Iplomacy will work better on the next upgrade. Have you considered picking it? Dont know if it fits this toon playstyle, but since it has some SA and low hp, I think he could benefit from it. But I dont know if it can be fitted and, if it is worth the cost. So take this as a question, not something I tell is good...

Anyway, liked the build. I am planning a long jorney of 3 fighter and 3 monk pastlifes, and I will probably use this as one of the fighter ones! I am on my second life (first pure monk, second monk/fighter based on Godhand).

Thanks for sharing!

[Nick_RC]

Thanks for the reply mate! I think we are definately thinking along the same lines - replies in red.

Another nice idea!

With the changes to intimidate, it's almost a shame not to look at incorporating that in some way, especialy on a WF that can plug in a Docent of Defiance and shield block if needed tankning bosses; your incredible DR will make up for your lower hit points. The new bluff might even be fun to incorporate as it no longer interupts your attack chain. This is the Master Controller after all, why not have the ability to make the mobs do whatever you want?

Heh I definately wanted to rack up the intim on this guy originally - decent dps combined with ninja spy + DoD + brute fighting +wf would make a great sulu tank for our tods BUT thought I was stretching too much on a 32pointer. I rolled this guy yesterday as my other toons cant be transferred and he is a humble 32 pointer and will likely stay that way until groan hits 20s and does 1 wiz 3 sorc and finished on a FVS life. Ideally what I want to do with him is get him to 36 points and bank a +3 Int and dex tome so I can pump up con steadying out my hit points. Realistically I wont have what I need gear wise to get threat tanking working adequately for a couple of months. I will definately work out a 36 point 'advanced' version and put it in the OP that will incorporate this. 36points and some nice gear will definately let me load up on a few more skills and bluff/intim were ones I was considering..sort of want to test how they work out on live before I go this route tho!

One small typo, fire stance gives -2 wisdom, not -1. While we're at it... fire stance. Again with stunning fist getting the most action (6 second timer vs. 15 on blow, or in other words you are hitting SF 5 times every 30 seconds and SB only twice), this is the DC you want to pump. IMO, windstance is the way to go here, and 2.5% double strike (up to 5 strikes unarmed), means not only more DPS, but more tactics. MOAR TACTICS! Plus wind does not detract from any of your tactics stats.

Thanks for the pick up on fire stance typo - teth pointed it out last night as well but havnt got around to fixing it. I was worried about the ki generation to be perfectly honest come U9- I like to use the invis portion of ninja spy a tonne as it allows me to get deeper into enemy clusters faster and target the casters etc without drawing the full mob down on me immediately. Im concerned that dashing around between mobs spamming stunning fist without sustained attacks might drain my ki below useful levels. Choosing between fire and wind was a tough call and it would likely be in game end game experience that would dictate what I would use. My monk experience is realtively light so I will definately take ur recomendation and try using wind more at cap. Also my improved trip will be at pretty much the perfect DC with vertigo wraps to drop low strength caster mobs down for a very long time - I'm loathe to give up strength as this detracts from that and all those little +1s count! I will definately give it a go and if ur right will be more than happy to go windstance.

If you are not going to tank, I'd strongly consider dwarf for the synergy with light path. If WF (and a quasi tank), I'd go dark path, since you will get next to no benefit from the healing curse, and Shadow Fade is very powerful. Your healing amp is also groanable at 85% or so, so why not just abandon light path all together? Your stated goal is self-sufficiency with healing ki. Dwarf also gives you +1 to stunning fist DC over a WF. You gain +3 to hit over a WF, and make up 1 damage wearing Garments of Equilibrium.

Dang the healing ki was a typo from the old version where originally it was a dwarf - Il edit that out. It was either 1.dwarf + light 2.wf + dark in my mind. I ended up going warforged because as we just said above tanking would definately be the option I would like to go when I eventually move him to 36p with a pair of ftr past lives. Honestly dwarf + light would probably be better on the 32p version moving to warforged + dark at 36point for when I start to incorporate tanking. It was a personal choice in the end - I really hate dwarves and have ever since the Drow and Dwarves online days. They are stunty, have a shorter perspective I dislike, and look flat out stupid in robes! I just about spat pepsi on my monitor when I saw the pic you posted - That was the last reason why I went wf over dwarf - I am clothed by default!


My older version of this split is here, it's a bit dated in the write up, and a slightly different approach (more AC and HPs, no Sap or Hamstring, etc.). There are still some friends that run that build successfully today. I think you are spot on with this being one of the best splits for U9, and for a skilled tactical player, your version will very very fun to play and group with.

Uber Il check it out - yeah I think it will be super fun next mod. I have a feeling melees are gonna need to be more than just fat hp blobs that run around with ESOS's next mod. The rise of the casters will mean we all better get more self sufficient next mod is my guess. And infinate stuns + 50% damage from sorcs = win!!!It was actually pretty funny - we did Into the deep last night - sans caster - was so much freakin fun. I kept thinking to myself 'ya know if I had brutalisk leveld by now...' could easily take the place of a cc caster in most runs. Time will tell really looking forward to seeing how he progresses.


The really big question for me is will this guy wear pants? Not sure I can take runnng with you in Epic Lederhosen on yet another toon!

Secret screen shot of Groan:

ROFL that pic had me in stitches. Poor Groans soiled Lederhosen. Somebody needs to pull me red/mari shards already cos ya know I wont pull em!

N

[slimkj]

Yah I considered 1 Ranger just for sprint boost - getting out in front of the group is REALLY important on this guy so you can get it ccd before everyone else arrives. Its more difficult to do on a melee than a caster as a caster can throw down cc, sort of fire and forget and move on to the next mobs...while a melee version needs to finish up and continue applying his cc at close range. Been playing my blittz to long - this guy needs to be moving to the next mobs earlier and leave the mopping up to others. I ended up going rog for a touch more dps and utility but either option is just fine.

Im actually kinda hoping this one doesnt take off lol. Its really tough to get the hangof to really get the most out of it. Very Very clicking intensive...Im ok with 11 con but I'm a bit leery suggesting it to others. 36p and 2 banked +3 tomes wuold go a long way to shoring up hp problems.

Assuming Fist as is makes it to live as intended, I'll be doing something similar and probably run with the ranger level to cap then LR it to rogue at cap if I loot a heart or get enough TP on the way. My monster is just a large ingred runner at this point anyway so it'll be nice to have something new to do with him.

He currently has Impr Trip and SB and I have monks out the kazoo, but you saying this adds another level of clicky intensity on top by mixing the two, and adding Sap etc., appeals all the more. I can see it needing a similar level of micromanagement to the Phoenix type builds or a caster, which massively appeals. Lovely, lovely CC everywhere too.

Yup, sod it, I'll give this a go. Hardcore, five years of a brain-wired refusal to dump CON means I'll probably chicken out and drop STR by two tho Though he does have a +3 CON in the bank at the mo. Maybe up to the next x0th Shroud then before I play this one out, hehe.

Edit: Forgot to say I'd be interested to hear reports at 16 and cap if you get a chance. Always nice to hear how they play out in practice. If I don't get impatient and start it myself of course.

[xTethx]

You wont have any ki generation issues nick, powersurge gives an additional 2 ki a hit for 3 total a swing. Plenty of ki for this type of build.

[Coldest]

I take it that Fist is 1/2 character level vs. monk level on Llamania?

[Aeolwind]

Man, I dig this. I just loaded up on a bevy of sticks for a run at an acroslugger and sincerely don't want to be choked unconcious and hospitalized for not using them, but this is tempting lol.

[transtemporal]

I like this build a lot Nick. The thing is, this sounds suspicously like a support melee. A very effective one, but a support nevertheless. Discussing it last night, we just can't see you playing this, Mr A-type-personality.

[JollySwagMan]

Yah this guy is holding 8 atm and its crazy how many buttons you need to push and how much flexibility you have...on a melee. I thought my final monk life on groan was nutso for clicking potential but this guy just adds another laye on top of that. Honestly it will definately take some getting used to to make sure its kept at 100% fighting capability. I think half the problem is the mobs have to few hit points at the moment for me to get a good aproximation of how it will fight end game. Im trying to get back into the swing of;

1. Sap - nastiest creature (pick out before the other teammates get their so the hypno sign is obvious)
2. Stunning blow next
3. Stunning fist
4. Impr trip
5. Dps couple of seconds/hasteboost
6. Re-sap/Stunning fist
7. Impr trip
8. Stunning blow
9 Stunning fist

Ad Nauseum!

At the moment unless im running on elite difficulty (which im kind of a fan of to get an early start to the rhythm of how he will play later on) its more like

1. Sap (5% hp left)
2. Dead
3. Dead
4. Stunning fist (5% health left)
5. Dead

etc etc. Kind of annoying. I will faithfully pug out the rest of the spots today in group to get rid of stupid dungeon scaling.

Its a blast to play at the moment and it will be silly when U9 changes go live!

N

Another option for dungeon scaling is hirelings, can leave em at the door :P At least, can be helpful when testing stuff out

I found that there wasn't always an attack pattern most comfortable for all settings - sometimes constant buffs, generally preferred to use Bane wraps of some kind, Earth strike, see if it's worth stunning, then either earth strike till a finisher's ready and stun the highest HP enemy, or spread Stuns/Trips around (Fist/Trip/Blow/Earth, Earth, Fist, Earth Finisher). Throwing Sap and Hamstring into the mix, I would probably try and save Sap as the last control-type attack due to its definite no-save, except as delivered to an orange named/high save/particularly nasty enemy that you want isolated. Hamstring sounds really good for a monster that's chasing someone when you're on cooldown, or pretty much any Kobold/Spider. It probably doesn't work on skeletons though


when soloing I'd often use the Wind stance and not bother with Stunning/Vertigo wraps except bosses - mostly for damage, but when trying stuff underlevel the HP reduction of Wind Stance can be effectively an emergency form of HP available if Incapped. More useful soloing though, I think - in some groups I found Fire/Earth+Intimidate essential to maintaining a steady income of ki combos/buffs. However, at the higher levels I wished I had taken Monk 6 prior to Kensai II, the build excels at stunning throughout, and I think having Fists of Iron/Earth II and quicker Earth Finishers earlier would have been more fun than Power Surges, and perhaps more effective on anything that could be stunned. However if one's focusing upon Raid Boss/100% fort DPS first, then Kensai II may be preferable as early as possible. In some groups/content it seems that Intimidate/Sneak attacks/maneuvering enemies to hit someone's summon instead of a player is more of a focus.

I always was under the impression it had a save...seems little point in having +x tendon slice weapons if there is no reason to add to the DC to the save. I havnt played around with it in a while but il be taking it at level 12 which I should be at early evening so will test it better and report back.

At the moment if I can find the space in my inventory Im looking at a debuff set-up in the form of Impr cursespewing of shattermantle/X of tendon slice. keeping a riad boss shattermantled is kinda nice every time you reapply the hamstring affect as it helps weaker casters get debuffs through spell resistance. Yeah kamas will be ur weapon of choice - il think more about weapon set ups when i get closer to cap - if you think of some nice combos LMK!

N

I don't think I've ever tried out hamstring. That said, I haven't checked the status on a raid boss often enough to see when they're debuffed, there can be a lot to keep track of! I think shattermantle would work well with aligning the heavens though, even outside of a raid context. Using Haste Boost/Wind stance, could hit a whole bunch of enemies to help mass cc via casters. If the Fire finisher were less buggy, it would be nice Reflex save option given the strong Fortitude save/Will save options available, and perhaps more effective vs stunned mobs in update 9 - at least, those that aren't immune to fire..

I think I'm pretty much set on Light Monk - the ninja abilities are very tempting, but Hamstring more so...

Yah I considered 1 Ranger just for sprint boost - getting out in front of the group is REALLY important on this guy so you can get it ccd before everyone else arrives. Its more difficult to do on a melee than a caster as a caster can throw down cc, sort of fire and forget and move on to the next mobs...while a melee version needs to finish up and continue applying his cc at close range. Been playing my blittz to long - this guy needs to be moving to the next mobs earlier and leave the mopping up to others. I ended up going rog for a touch more dps and utility but either option is just fine.

One of the reasons I went Rogue at 10 was to deceive my teammates by going into sneak mode before a trap..later on, going into sneak mode before some hidden enemies. Even before I had the Rogue level . This would make a good opportunity to Stun/Trip the hidden enemies around the corner, giving me time to switch to swap Spot for Intimidate item as my stalwart Barbarian companion charges the nearest explosive barrel . Having to break combos for disabling traps doesn't flow too well with my early level Monk playstyle, particularly as I tend to take Monk 3 as early as possible. However Rangers get sneak skills too, wouldn't suffer the BAB loss (ITWF was important to me when coming into range of some fun stunning handwraps), and perhaps the Sprint boost would be more suited to group play than Faster Sneaking. However losing Rogue would be quite a loss to UMD...perhaps Cha skills +6, Bunny Hat/Cartouche and the Epic Pirate Trinket? +2 tome, +2 ship, +2 exceptional would bring it back up to Rogue ranks. That is a lot of gear for a quick Heal/Rez scroll though!