Update 5/4/11
Based on feedback here and on my own experiences so far leveling up a version of this character, I've made a few alterations. I'm leaving the old build in this post as well, in case anyone was using it as a reference and wants to keep doing so. I strongly believe the new version is superior, though. Important changes since the original version:
* Swapped Empower Healing out for Empower. The new Divine Punishment and Blade Barrier are useful enough that I prefer being able to empower & maximize them to the situationally increased mana efficiency of Empower Healing.
* Changed enhancements around to better support a hate-tanking role (brute fighting). After trying this a bit (admittedly still at low levels) I can really see the benefits of a resilient, self-healing tank in a lot of situations.
* Dropped starting Strength from 17 to 16 in order to bump starting int to 14. I know this is unorthodox on this sort of build, but I've been convinced of the value of the Balance skill, and the new Intimidate changes made it very appealing. This isn't going to be a max-DPS build in any case; I decided I would value the extra 2 skills more than the 1 point of strength.
* Significantly changed skills. Dropped diplo entirely, cut off jump earlier, brought intimidate and balance to their (cross class) max. This requires use of a +2 int tome; without a tome, I would suggest balance as the skill to drop. With the U9 changes, having some intimidate is actually very worthwhile; no longer is it only useful if you have a very high value. With the boost to melee threat from spamming intim, combined with the Brute Fighting enhancements, this build should be quite capable of holding aggro.
Updated build:
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Badsoul d'Trick Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male (20 Favored Soul) Hit Points: 382 Spell Points: 1922 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 18 Reflex: 11 Will: 10 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 16 23 23 Dexterity 8 8 8 Constitution 18 20 22 Intelligence 14 16 16 Wisdom 6 6 6 Charisma 12 14 16 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance 1 10 5 Bluff 1 3 3 Concentration 8 29 29 Diplomacy 1 3 3 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 1 3 3 Heal -2 -2 -2 Hide -1 -1 -6 Intimidate 1 14 16 Jump 7 20 15 Listen -2 -2 -2 Move Silently -1 -1 -6 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 2 3 5 Search 2 3 3 Spot -2 -2 -2 Swim 3 6 -4 Tumble 0 0 -5 Use Magic Device 2 14 14 Level 1 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Lord of Blades Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Immunities Spell (1): Divine Favor Spell (1): Nightshield Level 2 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Spell (1): Shield of Faith Level 3 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Lord of Blades Spell (1): Protection From Evil Level 4 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Level 5 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire Spell (2): Resist Energy Level 6 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I Level 7 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Spell (2): Aid Spell (3): Searing Light Level 8 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Divine Power Level 9 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Spell (2): Lesser Restoration Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Level 10 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+2) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold Level 11 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Mass Aid Spell (5): Divine Punishment Spell (4): Deathward Level 12 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+2) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Lord of Blades Spell (6): Heal Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery III Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II Level 13 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds Spell (4): Recitation Spell (6): Blade Barrier Level 14 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Spell (7): Mass Cure Serious Wounds Level 15 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity Spell (6): Heroes Feast Spell (5): True Seeing Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements Level 16 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+1) Spell (8): Mass Death Ward Level 17 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith Spell (7): Resurrection Spell (8): Mass Cure Critical Wounds Level 18 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+2) Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell Spell (9): Mass Heal Level 19 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (8): Death Pact Spell (9): True Resurrection Level 20 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+2) Feat: (Diety) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Adamantine Spell (9): Summon Monster IX Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Lord of Blades Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization I Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization II Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting I Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting II Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting III Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II
Standing HP at Level 20:
Original post description follows:Code:Naked: 160: 20 Favored Soul Levels (d8 hit die) 20: Heroic Vitality (automatic feat) 80: 18 CON (base) 20: +2 CON from Warforged CON I & II enhancements 20: +2 CON from tome 22: Toughness feat 60: 6 Toughness Enhancements --- 382 With Common Level 20 Gear: 60: CON + 6 30: Greater False Life 20: Toughness (item, e.g. Minos) 45: Shroud HP item --- 537 With Less Common Gear: 10: Upgrade GFL to SFL 20: +2 Exc. CON 20: +1 Exc. CON and +3 CON tome --- 587 With Rare/Pointless Gear: 40: +4 CON Tome and 5-piece Abishai Set (ha. ha.) 10: Greater Stalwart Trinket (not that you'd actually wear this . . .) --- 637
I'm planning to start a series of TRs for my main character in a month or so, after a few raid completions. I would like to have another character capped, primarily for raiding and solo farming of end-game quests. I've long been intrigued by the various warforged Lord of Blades builds floating around the forums, especially Mellkor's and Sirgog's Soul Survivor. I'm also excited for the new Angel of Vengeance prestige enhancement coming with Update 9. Although it's theoretically a caster FVS pre, it seems equally useful for melee souls, and it looks like a lot of fun. I wanted to combine the two. I plan to level this character to 12 before Update 9 hits, then take the prestige and run with it from there to cap.
This will be my first favored soul and my first warforged character, so I would love any criticism or suggestions. The build draws heavily from both Sirgog's and Mellkor's builds, so they should get any credit for its good points. I entirely dropped the tanking portion of the Soul Survivor build -- I couldn't find a way to fit the necessary enhancements along with the prestige enhancements and prereqs -- so really this bears more resemblance to Mellkor's build, but I looked equally at both while working on this.
I felt painfully starved for both feats and APs while working on this, but I think it looks decent in the end. I went for balance rather than focusing on one area exclusively. Should be survivable, a really good healer, and a decent melee combatant with a greatsword. I really wish I could have topped out Healer's Friend, the toughness lines, the healing enhancements, and the +CHA lines, but I couldn't find a reasonable way to do all that while still fitting Angel of Vengeance II's prereqs.
I think it probably makes sense at level 20, once the inherent DR kicks in, to swap out Adamantine Body for something else -- probably Empower. I left it in for now, though, and DR 14/Adamantine is nothing to scoff at.
Enhancements are listed at levels 4 (starting with vet status), 6 (AoV I), 12 (AoV II), and 20 (capped). Obviously they can be respecced at any time. The spells listed are the ones I would take, in the order I would take them, if it was impossible to swap spells -- in reality, I will probably take cure/healing spells as they become available and swap them for more useful spells later. No tomes are strictly necessary for this build, although it will be more painful without a +1 int tome. I listed a few tomes I plan on using, though.
Without further ado:
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2 DDO Character Planner Home Page Badsoul d'Trick Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male (20 Favored Soul) Hit Points: 382 Spell Points: 1893 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 18 Reflex: 11 Will: 10 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 17 24 24 Dexterity 8 8 8 Constitution 18 20 22 Intelligence 11 12 12 Wisdom 6 6 6 Charisma 12 14 17 Tomes Used +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance -1 -1 -6 Bluff 1 2 2 Concentration 8 29 29 Diplomacy 1 2 2 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 1 2 2 Heal -2 -2 -2 Hide -1 -1 -6 Intimidate 1 2 2 Jump 3 22 17 Listen -2 -2 -2 Move Silently -1 -1 -6 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 0 1 1 Search 0 1 1 Spot -2 -2 -2 Swim 3 7 -3 Tumble 0 0 -5 Use Magic Device 2 13.5 13.5 Level 1 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Lord of Blades Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Immunities Spell (1): Divine Favor Spell (1): Nightshield Level 2 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Spell (1): Remove Fear Level 3 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Lord of Blades Spell (1): Bless Level 4 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I Level 5 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire Spell (2): Resist Energy Level 6 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I Level 7 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (2): Deific Vengance Spell (3): Prayer Level 8 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (4): Divine Power Level 9 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell Spell (2): Aid Level 10 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold Level 11 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (3): Remove Curse Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Spell (5): Protection From Elements Level 12 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Lord of Blades Spell (6): Blade Barrier Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II Level 13 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (4): Holy Smite Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds Spell (6): Heal Level 14 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (7): Resurrection Level 15 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Spell (5): Stalwart Pact Spell (6): Heroes Feast Spell (7): Mass Cure Serious Wounds Level 16 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (8): Mass Death Ward Level 17 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements Spell (8): Holy Aura Level 18 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell Spell (9): Mass Heal Level 19 (Favored Soul) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (8): Death Pact Spell (9): True Resurrection Level 20 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Diety) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Adamantine Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Lord of Blades Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization I Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization II Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery III Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
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03-29-2011, 11:57 PM #1Community Member
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U9 Warforged melee FVS - Angel of Blades
Last edited by Cardtrick; 01-31-2012 at 10:49 PM.
Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero
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03-30-2011, 01:04 AM #2Community Member
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I have one of these builds myself, and I've been wracking my brain to try and figure out how to make it work with U9 and Angel of Vengeance. The whole Aura of Menace mechanic seems tailor made for melee FvS.
First tier of AoV looks like a no brainer. 10AP gets you a guaranteed debuff against whatever you are fighting, plus a fairly often proccing vulnerability effect. Tasty. Combined with the new level 5 DoT light spell, and that's some fairly significant extra damage being tossed on enemies. This can be done with no significant sacrifices to the build (loss of 1/DR and the heal crit enhancements), except for tanking capability, which is too tight to fit back in. If you're using AoV though, the concept of tanking on the build seems to go out the window anyways, because you want someone else to be tanking so you can move your shield over to them and have it proc extra light damage on the boss.
The second tier is what seems somewhat more questionable though. It's 12AP for a minor improvement in the Aura (-2SR, but offensive spells you use don't make Spell Pen checks) and a shoulder mounted light cannon that lasts 5 minutes for 20SP. The thing is extremely SP efficient for the damage it dishes out (at least compared to our new DoT spell), but the additional AP sacrifice is gigantic (although a quick look at it shows that I only really sacrificed 30HP for it). It does appear to be affected by items and enhancements, but NOT affected by Metas (or at least not by Maximize). If you can afford it, it's steady, cheap DPS that is amplified by the smiting enhancements you were forced to take, and occasionally by the proc in the shield of condemnation.
Other thoughts... I'm an extend fan, and will continue to be even after U9... reason being that WF FvS have quite a few short duration buffs that they benefit greatly from when wading into battle. I guess that really only depends on how much you mind recasting things.
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03-30-2011, 01:02 PM #3Community Member
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Yeah . . . I agree, the real question here is whether to go AoV I or AoV II. I'm going to try AoV II for sure, at least at first. It doesn't require any additional feats, just APs, so it'll be easy to respec out of it if need be. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up deciding to use it while leveling, but then drop it at 20 in exchange for Toughness IV and Healer's Friend III. Originally Posted by Alyiakal
I know . . . it will be a pain dropping it, for sure. At 20, once I get the capstone DR, I may well switch out of Adamantine Body. At that point, I'd be looking to add either Empower or Extend. Before then, though, I just don't see how I can fit Extend -- the DR is too nice to have while leveling, and nothing else is really negotiable. If you're building a character like this as a TR, and you already have a Min II Greatsword, I suppose you could drop IC:slashing, but you give up a lot of weapon flexibility and/or DPS for that.Other thoughts... I'm an extend fan, and will continue to be even after U9... reason being that WF FvS have quite a few short duration buffs that they benefit greatly from when wading into battle. I guess that really only depends on how much you mind recasting things. Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero
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03-30-2011, 01:24 PM #4Founder
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I've been trying like heck to fit in the AoV II, but I just don't think it works for my style of play. The Aura of Menace is the center piece of what I want out of the PrE, and I just can't justify the very large enhancement investment to get the archon and the bonus to casting damage.
I am a big disciple of Sirgog's Soul Survivor build, as I feel that the 18 str and the threat component of the build are fundamental aspects of how the build functions best. So I'm pretty focused on keeping that. My enhances will most likely look like this (taken from the Soul Survivor base):
Enhancements:Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: FFavored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting I
Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting II
Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting III
Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting IV
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction III
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
I really don't feel like dropping anything else would be very functional, as being able to control mobs is great on a class with such high DR and survivability. That capability can get you out of a lot of trouble in a tight spot. I do agree that you can remove the brute fighting and go AoV 2, but it irks me to have to invest 6 AP's into Smiting 3 and Scion 3, and what's worse you have to invest in Bladesworn, which is about the worst thing ever.
As to Extend, I do not find it useful beyond low levels. Most of our best self-buffs do not benefit greatly from being extended in terms of SP cost, and I would even argue you're wasting SP's by having DP, DF, and any others up when you're not fighting. The removal of Extend from affecting BB's is the nail in the coffin for even considering it for me.
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03-30-2011, 04:38 PM #5Community Member
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Empower healing is a wholly unnecessary feat. Take empower instead - your blade barrier needs all the help it can get.
I plan on rolling the following for U9:
Power Attack
IC: Slashing
Toughness
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
Adamantine Body (or extend, depending on how things turn out)
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03-30-2011, 06:44 PM #6Community Member
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I did think about that . . . you may be right. On the other hand, it seemed like there might be situations where it was more mana-efficient to use empower healing with maximize off, especially since I don't see how I can fit any of the improved empower enhancements, even ignoring the fact that empower healing is the only thing to improve heal/mass heal. And the idea of this build is to focus on melee and healing, with spell casting a lower priority. On the other, other hand . . . empower would let me take better advantage of the new light spell, which I'm already going to be taking the smiting enhancements to benefit, in addition to the blade barrier benefit. Originally Posted by AtomicMew
I'm torn. The only healing characters I've ever run to a reasonable level were bards, and there I definitely felt that empower healing was not useful. But I didn't have Heal/Mass Heal there, and I didn't plan on main-healing raids. Now, though . . .
Anyone else have thoughts on this? Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero
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03-30-2011, 06:57 PM #7Community Member
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If you're going 20 FvS, I highly recommend the adamantine body over extend. Especially with U9 changes to the two spells that all Warforged favored souls need. Originally Posted by AtomicMew
As for gear, I'm recommending holy and/or radiance greensteel, and against undead, make sure you have your trinket from the shadow tomb equipped.
And most importantly slot at minimum a X potency 6 item.
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03-30-2011, 07:21 PM #8Community Member
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Perhaps I missed it in my brief reading of the changes, but what are these two spells, and how are they changing? Divine short term buffs are still affected by extend, unless I'm mistaken. Originally Posted by hu-flung-pu
My opinion on Empower Healing is as follows... WF FvS builds were never meant to be offensive casters, and I've never seen one built that way. Foremost, WF FvS are second tier melee DPS and healer/buffers. Empower Healing is the most efficient way to increase the output of those healing spells. It's also the only thing that works on Heal/Mass Heal, the former being the best method of patching yourself up during a fight. Since the objective of the build is to have large amounts of HP, you will want Empower Heal to fill yourself up after even the worst fights.
I only use Maximize when I find a situation that warrants kiting with BBs (i.e. Sins). I imagine Empower would fall under the exact same category. I tried using Maximize on Mass Cures, and found myself blowing through way too much SP. I've run into two situations so far healing raids (although my experience is nowhere near complete). You either have damage you can afford to wait and use Mass Heal to fix, in which Empower and Max do nothing, or damage that you cannot wait on and must be fixed immediately via Cures, in which Empower and Max are overkill, and at any rate, Empower Heal is cheaper.
The debuff effect that procs sometimes on being hit also amps up alignment damage. So you don't necessarily need a radiance weapon, dumping on lots of Holy/Good damage would be rewarded just as well.
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03-31-2011, 02:45 PM #9Community Member
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I disagree.Empower Healing is the most efficient way to increase the output of those healing spells.
Mass heal does not need empower healing - it just usually turns into overheal and wasted mana. Mass cures are already more efficient using maximize. And furthermore, you should have unlimited free 20 second maximize clickies, there is little reason to use empower healing. But even without the clickies, it is more efficient.
Empower healing has always been a weak feat for FvS - they don't get any of the additional benefits clerics get from it.
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03-31-2011, 03:44 PM #10Community Member
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As to the empower/empower healing/maximize thing...In the past, it has been empower spell for favored soul and empower healing for clerics. I'm wondering how the U9 change to empower healing will affect this. I'm assuming this is why he took empower healing. A 1.75 multiplier on heals vs. 1.5 multiplier on all spells. Since he's focused mainly on melee, imo it's not a bad way to go. I get that blade barrier is a very fine spell, but I fail to see how not focusing on that one spell is a bad decision.
DPS is a valid form of damage mitigation. Piking is not.
History will not tell of what we had, only what we did.
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03-31-2011, 05:44 PM #11Community Member
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You are free to have your disagreement in opinion; as I said, Maximize blows huge amounts of SP out the door in short order. If you are referring to the event dagger clickies... are you really going to carry around an entire bag full of those things. At any rate, the builds we are talking about are built to fight and heal at the same time; using a dagger for that is not going to do much. I can see your point if you are perhaps scroll healing something, but otherwise you should be in the thick of battle. Originally Posted by AtomicMew
Also, you did not address Heal itself. These are WF FvS we are talking about, and a base Heal is probably not going to fill them up unless they are already heavily kitted out with maxed Heal Amp gear. Also note that both of the "big builds" that the OP is basing this off of also both take Empower Heal, and that their authors are well respected in the forums. I'm inclined to believe they know what they are doing.
Again the problem is the context of the feats. Empower is a superior meta to use... if you're an offensive casting FvS. As it stands, a WF FvS in the middle of a fight gets a lot more benefit from Empower Heal.
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03-31-2011, 05:54 PM #12Community Member
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Originally Posted by Alyiakal
IMO, the big deal is not that it is SP efficient, but rather it adds DPS *without adding time / effort*. Whatever DPS you were doing without the light cannon, you now just get to add the light cannon DPS to that. no clicks, no targeting, no swings, no muss and no fuss!
I'm definitely going to try that bad boy out.
J
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03-31-2011, 08:16 PM #13Community Member
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This definitely was not the reason I took empower healing . . . mostly because I had no idea empower healing was being changed in U9. Where did you see that? It's not in the release notes. Do you have any more information on the change? Originally Posted by Ilklr
I agree with this very much. I'm not considering dropping empower heal. What I am still considering is whether it's worth dropping Adamantine Body at level 20 for either Empower or Extend. (Not to mention so I could get rid of the infuriating jump penalty from adamantine body.) I think it's probably not worth it . . . but maybe. Originally Posted by Alyiakal
Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero
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03-31-2011, 08:23 PM #14Community Member
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I don't see anything in the release notes about Empower Heal changing. Not that it matters to me at the moment, because I took it because of it's current merits.
RE: Adamantine Body... I ran with it for the longest of times at cap, and once I got rid of it, I can say that I can't really see the difference... I did put my skill points into Balance instead of Jump though... so I really needed to be rid of that huge Jump penalty.
Actually, I wasn't looking too carefully at the build, and I notice you have nothing in Balance and it's at a substantial negative actually... You may want to do something about that, because one of the few things that can kill a self-healing build is being knocked on it's back.
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03-31-2011, 08:57 PM #15Community Member
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I know. I actually have an alternate version of this build saved where I put as many skillpoints as I could into balance. I considered Concentration non-negotiable, and I hate playing without jump and UMD, so the best way I found to "sort of fix it" was by dropping STR by 1, which let me bump INT by 3. The problem is that it's still a cross-class skill, and there's also a -5 armor check penalty from Adamantine Body, and I don't have good dex. Even with 22 skill points invested in Balance (23 would only have given a half point), my ending modifier for balance is a +5: Originally Posted by Alyiakal
Even assuming a +6 DEX item, which I suppose I probably would wear at least for the Reflex save boost, that's only a Balance of 8, at a significant cost. Enhancements are already so tight that I just can't see using APs to boost it further.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2 DDO Character Planner Home Page Badsoul d'Trick Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male (20 Favored Soul) Hit Points: 382 Spell Points: 1893 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 18 Reflex: 11 Will: 10 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 16 23 23 Dexterity 8 8 8 Constitution 18 20 22 Intelligence 14 16 16 Wisdom 6 6 6 Charisma 12 14 15 Tomes Used +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance 1 10 5 Bluff 1 2 2 Concentration 8 29 29 Diplomacy 1 14 14 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 1 2 2 Heal -2 -2 -2 Hide -1 -1 -6 Intimidate 1 2 2 Jump 7 29 24 Listen -2 -2 -2 Move Silently -1 -1 -6 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 2 3 3 Search 2 3 3 Spot -2 -2 -2 Swim 3 6 -4 Tumble 0 0 -5 Use Magic Device 2 13 13 Level 1 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Lord of Blades Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Immunities Spell (1): Divine Favor Spell (1): Nightshield Level 2 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Spell (1): Remove Fear Level 3 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Lord of Blades Spell (1): Bless Level 4 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I Level 5 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire Spell (2): Resist Energy Level 6 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I Level 7 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (2): Deific Vengance Spell (3): Prayer Level 8 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Divine Power Level 9 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell Spell (2): Aid Level 10 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold Level 11 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (3): Remove Curse Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Spell (5): Protection From Elements Level 12 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Lord of Blades Spell (6): Blade Barrier Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II Level 13 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (4): Holy Smite Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds Spell (6): Heal Level 14 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (7): Resurrection Level 15 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Spell (5): Stalwart Pact Spell (6): Heroes Feast Spell (7): Mass Cure Serious Wounds Level 16 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (8): Mass Death Ward Level 17 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements Spell (8): Holy Aura Level 18 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell Spell (9): Mass Heal Level 19 (Favored Soul) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (8): Death Pact Spell (9): True Resurrection Level 20 (Favored Soul) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+3) Skill: Jump (+1) Feat: (Diety) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Adamantine Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Lord of Blades Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization I Enhancement: Favored Soul Greatsword Specialization II Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery III Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
I don't know -- is a balance of 8 worthwhile? Is it better than a negative balance in any significant way? Or am I still looking at only saving on a 1? These aren't rhetorical questions -- I usually play characters with rogue or bard levels, and I almost always have decent balance. I don't have a good sense of whether there's value even in very low levels of balance skill. Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero
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04-01-2011, 05:40 AM #16Community Member
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Hey,
I have a soul survivor and I love him dearly. I did however make some adjustments.
1. 12 starting intelligence so that I have maxed concentration, UMD and intimidate. I ate a +2 int tome to put some extra points into balance and (1) in tumble. Assuming it works WAI, intimidate will be very useful for a tank in U9 to get a little bit of extra hate, i definitely suggest to try to fit this in (I started with 11 charisma, otherwise same starting stats as you).
2. I have exactly the same feat lineup as you. In fact, I leveled without adamantine body and only took it at level 18 as before then a bladesmarked docent was perfectly acceptable DR. At level 20 have 13-15 DR/adamantine is awesome.
3. If I was going to do any feat swapping with U9, I would swap empower healing spell for empower. I almost exclusively use MCCW now as Mass Heal causes such a massive DPS drop and the efficiency of MCCW is really good when coupled with an epic ornamental dagger (or 10). CCW is getting a huge efficiency boost as well so it will be fine to swap between heal and CCW for similar SP expenditure (again, assuming that I'm using an epic ornamental clicky).
Enhancement wise, I wouldn't take FvS charisma and just rely on items, capstone and eagles splendour. I think I only have the first tier in prayer of life and nothing in PoIL, the crit lines aren't all that great usually I find, especially when there are other things better to invest in. Wand and Scroll Mastery II might be enough. I only have WF Constitution I at the moment as it puts my constitution on an even value. In short, you'll probably mess around with a few different setups. Action Boost: Attack is really useful to keep power attack on when doing epics before you get geared or to get aggro on a moving boss when you are tanking. WF Power Attack is really cool and something I try to have at least 2 ranks in, if not 3, it's excellent DPS.
In short, your enhancement layout is something that will probably change fairly regularly at level 20 depending on the content that you are running and your desired role.
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04-01-2011, 05:45 AM #17Community Member
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I wouldn't worry so much about this, I have 6 ranks in balance for a total modifier of 0, lol! However, once you consider +1 luck, +4 GH, +3 from dex item, +1 from dex ship buff, +1 from dex tome I'm up to 10. Afaik, a majority of balance checks are a set DC to get up of 15 anything close to 15 is going to be very useful. I keep a +15 balance item handy for times that it's needed (I'll tell you if I come across one). Originally Posted by Cardtrick
Since my first character didn't have balance (a tempest ranger) I'll never not take balance now considering how much time she has spent on her back. I don't want my characters to be easy.
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04-01-2011, 06:59 PM #18Community Member
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Maximize is more SP efficient than empower heal on mass cures. (Free maximize, even more so. ) Originally Posted by Alyiakal
Each dagger has 3 clicks that last 20 seconds each. I carry 8 of them around. That's 8 full minutes of continuous, non stop fighting. Even if you can't keep it going all the time, it will likely still be far, far more efficient than empower heal.If you are referring to the event dagger clickies... are you really going to carry around an entire bag full of those things. At any rate, the builds we are talking about are built to fight and heal at the same time; using a dagger for that is not going to do much. I can see your point if you are perhaps scroll healing something, but otherwise you should be in the thick of battle.
Note that those builds are not for U9. With the changes to cures, heal and mass heal, with free maximize event daggers, with the angel of vengeance empower heal will just look silly.Also note that both of the "big builds" that the OP is basing this off of also both take Empower Heal, and that their authors are well respected in the forums. I'm inclined to believe they know what they are doing.
(PS: Of course I am free to disagree with you, just like you are free to not be patronizing)
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04-01-2011, 08:25 PM #19Community Member
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I would suggest that probably the best situation is to have empower heal until some gear is acquired and then to swap it to empower. Maximize is a given. Originally Posted by AtomicMew
Maximize does indeed significantly increase the efficiency of cures with or without event daggers. Personally I do 80% of my healing with MCCW, 15% with MCSW (swap to MCLW in U9 with SP cost change) and 5% with other spells. With the new non-DC offensive spell options that FvS have it will certainly be beneficial to have both empower and maximize.
Being able to boost up heal/mass heal is useful for a WF FvS until some solid heal amp is acquired but once it is I will dump it very fast.
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04-01-2011, 09:26 PM #20Community Member
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I did read your chart on efficiencies, and I agree that numbers wise, Maximize is more efficient. Perhaps my choice of wording was poor. In what circumstance are you going to need your Mass Cures to hit for more than Empower Heal makes them hit for? (I am assuming some basic level of gear here, which your calculations in your efficiency post do not include) The main benefit of Mass Cures is they cast quickly, so they can be spammed if you have fast incoming damage. This kind of damage usually comes in quick waves, such that you will be overhealing with spammed Maximized Cures. And if it's slow enough that you can wait, Mass Heal is more efficient. Originally Posted by AtomicMew
Also, you left out Heal and Mass Heal completely in your analysis. Saying something like "Mass heal does not need empower healing - it just usually turns into overheal and wasted mana. Mass cures are already more efficient using maximize." is clearly false if you run the numbers for it.
Additionally, you are telling me that, in the middle of combat, you are going to stop fighting to switch weapons, use a clicky that lasts no longer than an action boost (did a Dev ever say if the Cove stuff that reads wrong is WAI?), then switch back to your DPS weapon. All while you are responsible for making sure the group stays up.
Again, you did not address Empower Heal's affects on Heal itself. I noted that you had mentioned this in your efficiencies post, and it is even more relevant here, since the FvS builds we are discussing are Warforged.
Um... actually according to my calculations, if the costs of MCLW and MCMW are decreasing (as said in the release notes), this actually benefits Empower Heal more than Maximize from a purely 'mathematical' standpoint (note on your chart MCMW is the break even for efficiency between the two, with U9 changes, Empower Heal comes out ahead; note that MCMW appears to be unchanged so far on Lamannia though). Also, Heal increasing in cost with no change in affect makes Empower Heal more important for making sure it hits for the biggest amount possible (overall efficiency is being decreased, but it is still the best single target heal out there). I see no relevant changes to Mass Heal (removal of Heighten? what?). Originally Posted by AtomicMew
Again, you are going to hotswap these things to use their clicky in the middle of a fight? I can understand if you're an offensive caster and have it permanently equipped, but in the middle of a melee with no quickdraw?
How does AoV have anything to do with Empower Heal?
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