Yet another FvS spell selection thread…

[Tobril]

So I’ve decided to assist with the lack of raid/epic healer situation by getting a FvS up to snuff.

As such I’m working on the best all-around list that can handle most epics/raids. (maybe a little questing/farming as well)

Based on recent experiences I want all three raise options. (the need to save abbot-gone-awry or other mass wipes has been pretty common)
At least 3 mass cure timers seems like a necessity as well. (epic DQ)

Any input from experienced elite/epic raid healers would be appreciated.


Basic build concept is a 20 WF FvS, dumped WIS, Lord of Blades, hate-tank if needed.

Observations based on field testing...

I try to keep the amrath belts running, but if there is a gap I have a always-on superior potency 6 item equipped which makes MCLW/MCMW pretty decent "quick fixes" when mass heal will either be too late, I'm worried about being tripped, etc.

Many of the low level spells never get cast, but all the questionable looking things in the 1-4 range see use on a regular enough basis that they are included.

There really isn't all that much useful in that range.

The two big-kid res options are the only ones I think are worth using. Bringing people back to "omg I'm almost dead again" range isn't a good plan.

UPDATE...Here is the current list I'm running with and changes for U9...

1st
Divine Favour
Remove Fear
Nightshield
Obscuring Mist

2nd
Resist Energy
Lesser Restore
Summon II
Eagle Splendor

3rd
Magic Circle
Prayer
Searing Light
Remove Curse

4th
Divine Power
Freedom
Recitation
Neutralize Poison (this will likely be replaced with CCW due to the reduced cost in U9, people can learn to carry potions dag-nabbit)

5th
MCLW (much cheaper U9)
Break Enchantment (used to remove curses from lazy people)
True Seeing (unless something important comes along to require SR this will stay, otherwise it will be scrolled)
SR (U9 this will be replaced with the new light based DOT)

6th
Heal
BB
MCMW (much cheaper U9)

7th
Mass Protection
Resurrection
MCSW

8th
Holy Aura
Mass DW
Summon VIII

9th
Mass Heal
True Resurrection
Enervation

[Vynnt]

You don't need..

Eagle Splendor (why?)

Lesser Restore
Remove Paralysis
Restoration
(What Heal doesn't cover, you can scroll Greater Restore, or just take G Restore)

You want:
Neut Poison. Lasts longer than wand, and its a frequent cast for things like Shroud.
True Seeing
Mass Protection from Elements. It's an underrated spell. Premptive casting can save you sp on raid bosses, plus, it's a few more seconds with the Shadows in ToD. The flip side is a lot of Arcanes carry it, but they tend to only use it once before battle and not refresh it.

Some people like Death Pact, I personally do. It's not required, but it has potential to save a raid (non penalty box ones of course) or Epics.

----

I've never needed all three raise deads. Two works.

It seems you are going to swap out all of your low level cures. Remember, it takes 3 days and some gold.

[azrael4h]

You don't need..

Eagle Splendor (why?)

Disjunction. He probably dumped CHA, like a lot of builds do, and thus would lose access to at least Heal if hit by one.

[Tobril]

Disjunction. He probably dumped CHA, like a lot of builds do, and thus would lose access to at least Heal if hit by one.

Yup, you nailed that one on the head.

My robot is not only ugly, but also lacking in the wisdom department.

[Geonis]

Disjunction. He probably dumped CHA, like a lot of builds do, and thus would lose access to at least Heal if hit by one.

Then carry another Cha item. Come on, you can carry 72 swords, but not a 2nd cloak/ring?

[LunaCee]

Remove Curse - Use pots, no seriously... you can use the non-guild pots on others as well if you have them selected and are in range. Saves you SP and only some places seriously need significant curse removal. And in that case you can afford to buy the partial stack of pots you will need.

Lesser Restoration - Removing an enfeeble or something early game? Just use a wand...

Remove Paralysis - Wand, with how little you will actually need to remove a slow from somebody and the fact that FoM blocks holds anyways... get the wand.

Mass Protection from Elements can be scrolled. I *know* it is available in The Portable Hole at the very least. And since the amount of protection granted is already at its maximum on the scroll version, save the SP and use the scrolls.

Only carry Raise Dead on scrolls, you can use that spell slot for something else. Not to mention the only time you really want to use raise dead is when its time to be using scrolls. Combat raises should really be the higher level versions. Take both True Seeing and the Protection from Elements spells. Or if you just *must* have the Spell Resistance spell for when you solo low level content... take it here.

Mass Spell Resistance might as well not exist in high level content as it stands. The number of times I've seen the blue shield flare up and actually save me from an issue in Amrath and up content is very infrequent at best. Use it for the Summon VII spell so you have a handy source of auto-crits via an earth elemental.

Take the Summon VIII on the eighth level spells, it is your best friend when it comes to some named casters, and a number of crowded situations. A particular self-healing named kobold in the final quest of the Lordmarch chain is an excellent example of where it comes in really handy for a melee based divine.

[azrael4h]

Gotta agree with Summon VIII; it's basically a 10 min, roaming Greater Command that does a little damage and draws a lot of aggro. My guild usually runs with at least two going, situation depending.

[Jaid314]

Mass Protection from Elements can be scrolled. I *know* it is available in The Portable Hole at the very least. And since the amount of protection granted is already at its maximum on the scroll version, save the SP and use the scrolls.

funny, *i'm* pretty sure it *can't* be found in shops. i could be wrong though.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Mass Protection from Elements can be scrolled. I *know* it is available in The Portable Hole at the very least. And since the amount of protection granted is already at its maximum on the scroll version, save the SP and use the scrolls.
.

There's no Mass Prot Elements sold anywhere; you might have mistaken it for the Prot Elements scroll sold in Portable Hole.

funny, *i'm* pretty sure it *can't* be found in shops. i could be wrong though.

You are correct unless I too is mistaken.

I'll put my Lifetime portable hole discount card on the line to this claim

[aristarchus1000]

Some good thoughts. I'm assuming you have plenty of epic/end game experience based on your post, so I'm directing this toward your final list, not the one you will be leveling with.

lesser restoration and restoration are not needed after you get Heal, which cures just about everything including stat damage. Except levels. I use GR scrolls for that. Since you will have deathward on people most of the time, I don't find that I need to use them too often. I've been playing for months and still haven't used up my first stack of 50.

Be careful of anything you are relying on a wand or a scroll. The time-difference can be big, and sometimes you need a quickened Remove Paralysis. I believe I have this, not because it is terribly useful, but because there isn't a whole lot of stuff I'd rather have instead.

I have remove curse, because, while I do have pots and use them a lot, they have a cooldown. Sometimes you just need to use them quicker. Yes, everyone should remove their own curses, but sometimes the tank will get cursed right after his pot, and can't drink again for a few seconds. It's useful, and there aren't a lot of better options at that level.

I don't believe Mass Prot from elements is available to buy in the Portable Hole (it's not, I just looked). That said, arcanes generally have it, but sometimes it's nice to have. I always wonder if I should try this midfight to refresh protection, but I just haven't bothered. Most big fights fights use one or two elements to attack, and the protection is taken off before resists, etc, so it is generally not to efficient for mana compared to something like ... Mass Heal. The few times I tried to use it midfight the arcane tries to be helpful and does it as well, making it a duplicative waste. I guess it could keep squishie types alive for a little longer, but I generally consider that the squishie's responsibility for being squishie.

If things are going badly, you can't rely on Raise Dead. I'd go with True Res, Res, and Res scrolls, and carry Raise Dead scrolls if you are doing something that requires you to save mana out of combat. I don't think it'll happen too often, I don't bother. the cost of Res scrolls is not prohibitive anyway, given how rarely you will use them.

I'm ambivalent about Mass Spell Resistance. I agree that it doesn't seem to go off often, and usually you can use another buff to make yourself immune to anything important. I see it go off in epic quests periodically, but I never really checked to see if it was necessary (whether FoM, or DW, or PoE, or GH would have made me immune anyway). It is nice for running lowbie guildies through stuff to help them flag etc. I'd consider swapping it out, but haven't had a strong alternative yet. I have plenty of Earth Ele clickies, and those are available as scrolls if I wanted them.

I think level VIII is the hardest. Holy Aura is awesome. Summoning VIII is great. Mass DW is just convenient (but important convenience, since you use this all the time, I tried living without it but it sucked, ended up using GR scrolls more). Death Pact has helped save the group when things just go wrong, even if it is rare (maybe once) and it is nice if you mess up while soloing. Right now I have Holy Aura/MDW/DP, but wish I had an extra slot for Summoning VIII.

Anyway, my thoughts. Overall a good list to start. You will likely adjust as you play.

[Aegnore]

I agree with the OP, the Air ele is nice to have especially in epics.. It trips things that are normally hard to trip for players

[aristarchus1000]

I agree with the OP, the Air ele is nice to have especially in epics.. It trips things that are normally hard to trip for players

Ugh, you guys are making it hard. I like the extra security blanket of Death Pact, even if I can't remember the last time it was triggered.

I agree it's a great spell, I use it on my wizard all the time.

Hrmm...

[Tobril]

Some good thoughts. I'm assuming you have plenty of epic/end game experience based on your post, so I'm directing this toward your final list, not the one you will be leveling with.

I do, but not as a healer.

Be careful of anything you are relying on a wand or a scroll. The time-difference can be big, and sometimes you need a quickened Remove Paralysis. I believe I have this, not because it is terribly useful, but because there isn't a whole lot of stuff I'd rather have instead.

I have remove curse, because, while I do have pots and use them a lot, they have a cooldown. Sometimes you just need to use them quicker. Yes, everyone should remove their own curses, but sometimes the tank will get cursed right after his pot, and can't drink again for a few seconds. It's useful, and there aren't a lot of better options at that level.

Yup, a lot of the low level spells are there because there isn't anything else even moderately useful to take. Might as well have something that might be used someday.

If things are going badly, you can't rely on Raise Dead. I'd go with True Res, Res, and Res scrolls, and carry Raise Dead scrolls if you are doing something that requires you to save mana out of combat. I don't think it'll happen too often, I don't bother. the cost of Res scrolls is not prohibitive anyway, given how rarely you will use them.

I may take out raise dead due to a general consensus here, but will defer that decision until a bit later.

I'm ambivalent about Mass Spell Resistance. I agree that it doesn't seem to go off often, and usually you can use another buff to make yourself immune to anything important. I see it go off in epic quests periodically, but I never really checked to see if it was necessary (whether FoM, or DW, or PoE, or GH would have made me immune anyway). It is nice for running lowbie guildies through stuff to help them flag etc. I'd consider swapping it out, but haven't had a strong alternative yet. I have plenty of Earth Ele clickies, and those are available as scrolls if I wanted them.

I see the little blue circle a lot on my monk, so I thought mass SR would be useful. If it turns out to not help all that much in epics then I'll swap it out for mass protect. (combat log goes by too fast on the monk to figure out what the SR is stopping)

Swapping out raise would make room for the single target protect for special occasions.

I think level VIII is the hardest. Holy Aura is awesome. Summoning VIII is great. Mass DW is just convenient (but important convenience, since you use this all the time, I tried living without it but it sucked, ended up using GR scrolls more). Death Pact has helped save the group when things just go wrong, even if it is rare (maybe once) and it is nice if you mess up while soloing. Right now I have Holy Aura/MDW/DP, but wish I had an extra slot for Summoning VIII.

Anyway, my thoughts. Overall a good list to start. You will likely adjust as you play.

Yup, VIII is crazy hard to decide right now.

My cleric tended to not need DP, so it may go in favor of the elemental.

[Tobril]

You don't need..


You want:
Neut Poison. Lasts longer than wand, and its a frequent cast for things like Shroud.
True Seeing

A lot of people have their own TS and poison. (if not they should)

I'll probably just carry scrolls/potions to satisfice people who complain too loud. (I would, however, budge on TS if removing raise dead)

[voodoogroves]

FIFTH:
I have TS right now AND I carry scrolls. I've considered ditching it for Spell Resistance (single version). I also have Raise Dead, but may ditch it and just use my stack of scrolls. If I did, I'd put TS back or something. I'm ok at 5th.


SEVENTH:
Summon Monster 7 is available as a scroll and the duration is fixed / independent of caster level. I'd use that for your earth elementals.

Right now I'm running Greater Restore, Mass Protect and CSW-mass. Toying with the idea of replacing Greater Restore and just using scrolls; if so it will be Ressurection because coming back w/ SP is better than not.


EIGHT:
I agree 8th is the hard spot. For me, it's probably going to be Death Pact that I skip because I always forget to buy the stupid components ... and when I have them, I always talk myself out of casting it. If I die soloing, I need to learn a lesson and do better next time. I skipped the mass cure at 6th, so I'm taking a 3rd mass cure here for use w/ clickies, then the Air Elemental.

[Quikster]

Eight is a no brainer. There have been exactly 0 times i thought, "Boy, I wish I had death pact."

Once you reach a certain level of play, and parties to run with, my experience is been if the group wipes, its so bad you dont really want to be running around by yourself anyway. And if for some reason you do get the group back up, and buffed, and move along, you end up burning mana pots and time. 9 outta 10 times you could have recalled, refreshed, and restarted in close to the same time.


Take the elemental, mass death ward, and holy aura and call it a day.

[Matuse]

I've considered ditching it for Spell Resistance (single version)

Don't do this. Pointless spell. There's almost nothing it protects you against.

Spell Resistance does not work against damage dealing spells.
Deathward prevents instant death spells, and it also puts a stop to any level drains.
Beholders will dispel your SR spell just like any other (so no mentioning their level drain in response to the above).
Protection from Evil gives immunity to Command.
Freedom of Movement is immunity to Hold.
Things like Poison, Disease, Blindness, Curse are either easy to be immune to, or effortlessly cured with Heal or a cheap potion/scroll.
Epic casters (for things like Dancing Balls or Irresistable) will TRIVIALLY pass the caster check against any SR a player can possibly have (seriously, even if they roll a 1, they have so many casters levels they still beat it).

So...please tell me, what are you being protected against by this spell?

[Tobril]

Eight is a no brainer. There have been exactly 0 times i thought, "Boy, I wish I had death pact."

Once you reach a certain level of play, and parties to run with, my experience is been if the group wipes, its so bad you dont really want to be running around by yourself anyway. And if for some reason you do get the group back up, and buffed, and move along, you end up burning mana pots and time. 9 outta 10 times you could have recalled, refreshed, and restarted in close to the same time.


Take the elemental, mass death ward, and holy aura and call it a day.

This is kinda what I was thinking.

The only time I've wanted death pact is for abbot-gone-wrong. As I've learned how to heal through if required that pretty much eliminates it from consideration.

My cleric used to use it, but since getting killed was usually not the plan he often just blew the semi-expensive component for nothing.

[ag_gair_eos_ard]

You want:
Neut Poison. Lasts longer than wand, and its a frequent cast for things like Shroud.
True Seeing

Funny story about neutralize poison and the shroud. Right out side the entrance to the shroud, there is a potion seller. Guess what one of the pots are? Neutralize poison. Amazing.

[hu-flung-pu]

I find a use for every cure spell, even light for rogues and arcanes who don't need 300 hit point heals.


I'd also swap out break enchantment over mass SR.

Also, you'll want both a triple positive green steel, and a radiance for update 9.