It happened on Argo™

[SINIBYTE]

[*]Acid and Solid Fog spells not slowing enemies down. Celebrate by blanketing every quest you run for the next month with fog spells. If your party members can find their way to a mob, you aren't doing enough. Feel free to supplement with Mind Fog, Disco Ball, Glitterdust, and other spells.

heh, you just reminded me of a Reaver I was in the other day... Group was slow to fill and even slower to start. The Raid Leader decided that a multiclass non-capped bard would heal the entire raid. I was fine with it since I've run Reaver without any heals at all... so whatever.

While waiting I tossed up some disco balls, and for shiggles Sleet Storm (Sleet Storm is the new grease). I had accidentally extended it. Oops. I danced in my disco, others did too. Finally we started the raid, so I tossed out some Cloudkills since my stupid sleet storm was extinguishing my fire walls when the ele's came. No big loss. Suddenly 1 person dies... then another then another... we're down to like half the people.

The bard shouts over the mic "I couldn't heal because of the lag because that guy griefed us!". Mmmm ok. Whatever. One of the dead says "Looks like we have a griefer in our group!". Next thing you know everyone starts spattering all sorts of **** over the mic and in chat... about how I caused lag intentionally to cause a wipe...

My sleet storm finally went away and I drops some massive FWs - Ele's are dying away, piece o cake. I've 6 manned Reaver, so I figured we'd be fine. One by one the survivors of my "griefing" start recalling, calling me all sorts of names... And there I was... Alone. With the Reaver. I proceeded to practice my "tanking" and "kiting" skills, and finally Teleported myself out.

When I popped out they had a new LFM up specifically calling me out as a griefer (think that might be against the TOS, bud). I lolled. I put up my own LFM and instead was instantly invited by another Reaver raid forming outside the door.

We went in, I disco'd, I danced, I sleet stormed everyone for shiggles, we laughed as I fell on my ass. We danced, we laughed, we finished. Good times.

Moral of the story:

Don't Sleet Storm and Cloudkill in raids it'll make bards not able to heal causing a wipe.

It happened on Argo™

[twix]

While i like to have fun and giggle a bit the whole grease/sleet storm/glitterdust/hypnotic sphere **** is just not as funny as it used to be.Its not funny to not be able to see anything thats going on.Its not funny to be so lagged out you cant move because some ****** wont stop spamming the same spell over and over and over.

To me that is griefing.The people that are looking for laughs know when and where it would be funny for these spells.Greasing someone into the traps in pre raid for titan.An oldie but a goodie.Greasing someone off the top of von 6 another oldie but a goodie.There are many many perfect spots to grease/dance/what ever else ya got in this game.Just spamming these spells is annoying and silly and a waste of everyones time.

If you were lagging people out you should have stopped since you didnt thats griefing sorry.

[ArloOne]

I like you Sini. Generally, good forum persona. I personally have a wife and 2 boy ages 4 and 2. I have been playing for years. My time playing is well managed, so as to not make the natives restless(meaning my family). If I had been in that group, I would have been pretty ticked off with your behavior. It is a PUG group as far as I understand it. To me, that means you are definetly taking your chances as it is, typicaly those types of actions are acceptable with a group of regular buds and people you know. Sometimes though, for instance in my case, that 10-15 minutes you wasted of mine would be considered bad form.

When I lead a Shroud, I will only pug out 2-3 spots, knowing my group of friends knows what they are doing and can take up the slack. It most pugs with people I don't know, I would like it to be straight forward and as successful as possible.

If what you did was an accident...ok understandable, but that shiznity don't fly with me.

[Gol]

I proceeded to practice my "tanking" and "kiting" skills, and finally Teleported myself out.

Real casters solo Reaver.

[KoboldKiller]

I think some of you missed the part where he said he had "accidentally" extended the sleet storm. Nor did it say he was spamming it after it finally went away.

This was a simple mistake and the other people in the PuG overreacted.


For the record I have hit auto run TWICE in the Hound causing a wipe.

Nobody called me out for greifing. n00b was the most common word used LOL.

[KoboldKiller]

Also thanks for the laugh.

In my mind I imagined a scene like in a movie with everyone pointing at you yelling "greifer". Something like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[Irinis]

Ya noob!*

*disclaimer: I have NEVER done anything noobish ever in my entire gaming history**

**If you believe that then Half-Elves will be coming out in Update 7!

[twix]

An accident is funny Ive had a few doozies myself.If it was unintentional and you let the group know this then they didnt have a right to call you a griefer at all.

[SINIBYTE]

This was a simple mistake and the other people in the PuG overreacted.

Oh they way overreacted. Truth of the matter is, the extended sleet storm was my mistake, but it really didn't matter until I realised I couldn't firewall (hence the cloudkills). Otherwise, everyone was having a good time, and all was well. Noone complained about spells...

As soon as people started dropping the bard decided he needed a scapegoat for his poor play, and decided to blame it on lag - and in turn blame me for said lag. ...and rile the troops up that THEY were dead because of ME.. not because he couldn't heal the raid during elementals. It was a simple case of "pass the buck".

An accident is funny Ive had a few doozies myself.If it was unintentional and you let the group know this then they didnt have a right to call you a griefer at all.

Oh, I didn't even have the time to say anything - the bard was ranting like a loon.

[dormetheus]

I lead that raid. I must admit, it was a sloppily built group, but I figured, ***, it's a Reaver.

Basically, there were two bards in the group. Our cleric was a multi bard. Cleric/FvS were taking forever to join, so I figured I'd just grab and go.

We all zone in and buff. Sin throws an icestorm and discos. I'm laughing on my rogue slipping around as I wait for everyone to finish buffing and engage Reaver. No big deal.

The first wave of ellies come and there are no firewalls. I guess ice storm destroys them. We all go up and come down. One of our healers and a sorc goes down, I believe. They're complaining about lag and disco and sleet storm, etc. They're falling down too much to cast their spells. Disco isn't working.

We go up and down again. In the meantime, there are NO firewalls anywhere. The sleet storm is still going (it seemed to go on for over 5 minutes. I don't the timing on sleet, but it seemed as if there were multiple casts)

Basically, the party wipes and reforms. I get several tells to not invite the griefer.

I reform the party and Sin hits my LFM. I inform him that what he was doing was rude/griefing. Another Reaver raid is forming at the same time.

I change my lfm, adding "no griefers". Sin joins the other raid. I inform the other raid leader of Sins actions. The other raid fills without Sin (from what I could tell) and goes into Reaver.

Sin hits my lfm again, I reject him. He starts sending tells and bragging about how fast his raid (I assumed he was going solo) was going.

Anyway, he was very rude, IMO, and offered no apologies for his "accident".

[Gobbothegreen]

That sounds like my kind of reaver

For everyone who was in Sinis group and didnt like that, i wouldnt recommend you to run with my bard Mhaziea

[KoboldKiller]

It looks to me like you are simply uninformed as Sleet Storm has been broken for a long time.

And I can't imagine how long a extended sleet storm could last.

Also you sending a tell to another group leader shows very poor form and judgement on your part considering you have no evidence or proof he was in fact greifing the party.

[LordPiglet]

Ya noob!*

*disclaimer: I have NEVER done anything noobish ever in my entire gaming history**

**If you believe that then Half-Elves will be coming out in Update 7!

**** yeah, about time for Half-Elves

[KoboldKiller]

I have one last thought about this whole issue and the reaction of the people within.

The reaction of the party is the exact reason more and more guilds and LFM's are becoming "exclusive". They don't want to deal with this type of attitude or player.

Before the advent of f2p and the influx of new players a situation like this would have been laughed off and everyone would have just ran it again.

Now all of the sudden it's "greifing". Give me a break people. Mistakes happen, move on, relax, get over yourselves.

[SINIBYTE]

I lead that raid. I must admit, it was a sloppily built group, but I figured, ***, it's a Reaver.

Basically, there were two bards in the group. Our cleric was a multi bard. Cleric/FvS were taking forever to join, so I figured I'd just grab and go.

We all zone in and buff. Sin throws an icestorm and discos. I'm laughing on my rogue slipping around as I wait for everyone to finish buffing and engage Reaver. No big deal.

The first wave of ellies come and there are no firewalls. I guess ice storm destroys them. We all go up and come down. One of our healers and a sorc goes down, I believe. They're complaining about lag and disco and sleet storm, etc. They're falling down too much to cast their spells. Disco isn't working.

We go up and down again. In the meantime, there are NO firewalls anywhere. The sleet storm is still going (it seemed to go on for over 5 minutes. I don't the timing on sleet, but it seemed as if there were multiple casts)

Basically, the party wipes and reforms. I get several tells to not invite the griefer.

I reform the party and Sin hits my LFM. I inform him that what he was doing was rude/griefing. Another Reaver raid is forming at the same time.

I change my lfm, adding "no griefers". Sin joins the other raid. I inform the other raid leader of Sins actions. The other raid fills without Sin (from what I could tell) and goes into Reaver.

Sin hits my lfm again, I reject him. He starts sending tells and bragging about how fast his raid (I assumed he was going solo) was going.

Anyway, he was very rude, IMO, and offered no apologies for his "accident".

Seriously man? You really thought I was intentionally trying to cause a raid wipe? I want my completions as well, and these servers are much too small to get a negetive reputation... I like to have some fun in a raid, after running them dozens of times over and over again, a little joking around should be expected at this point. Even the f2pers are running on a raid schedule now.

Anyway, I'll offer my apology for the misinterpretation then.

Here's a couple things though... 1. That bard couldn't heal a raid, and needed a scapegoat for the wipe, as he was the first to start accusing me of being a griefer. 2. Sleet Storm is weird.. it's huge, and when extended lasts forever (my bad). 3. Sleet Storm puts out firewalls, that why I was throwing clouds out (I put on my acid gear too), not to grief anyone, but to kill schtuff. 4. Extend was only on because I was buffing everyone in the raid and forgot to turn it off.

I don't have a mic, so I never got the chance to reply to anything that was spoken, and instead was just trying to kill off some Ele's (right down to when the last person was in there), things were a bit hectic with no heals. When I clicked your LFM and you refused me, I put my own LFM up. I noticed you decided to put my name in your LFM stating I was a griefer (not cool), at that point I didn't feel like being polite...or apologizing. Anyway - someone (name removed) tossed me a blind invite and I accepted, we jumped in, I continued with my goofy antics (this time it was actually funny too), we pulled reaver and I let you know that we did, we finished without a hitch and I Sleet Stormed the chests too. Some laughed and said "why is it always the guy that casts it that winds up on his ass?".

But yeh, sorry I screwed up your raid, but seriously it wasn't intentional. And that bard is on my ignore list.

[Lorz]

If you have lag from spells being cast....FIX YOUR COMPUTER.

If you see lag when you see aoe's.....the problem is on your end.

[Schwarzie]

That sounds like my kind of reaver

For everyone who was in Sinis group and didnt like that, i wouldnt recommend you to run with my bard Mhaziea

aka Little Miss Grease.

Its to long since we had a Grease Duell on our Bards!

On a Sidenote, Docents of Grace, Delving Boots etc are off limits!

[Katarrah]

While i like to have fun and giggle a bit the whole grease/sleet storm/glitterdust/hypnotic sphere **** is just not as funny as it used to be.Its not funny to not be able to see anything thats going on.Its not funny to be so lagged out you cant move because some ****** wont stop spamming the same spell over and over and over.

To me that is griefing.The people that are looking for laughs know when and where it would be funny for these spells.Greasing someone into the traps in pre raid for titan.An oldie but a goodie.Greasing someone off the top of von 6 another oldie but a goodie.There are many many perfect spots to grease/dance/what ever else ya got in this game.Just spamming these spells is annoying and silly and a waste of everyones time.

If you were lagging people out you should have stopped since you didnt thats griefing sorry.

Hey Stone Remember that time when you Diplo killed me in TR over and over doesn't that count as griefing?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Hey Stone Remember that time when you Diplo killed me in TR over and over doesn't that count as griefing?

naw.. That just counts as FUNNY!



Just as an add-on. I'm the reason for at least two people maxing their intimidate skill after being constantly diplo killed by me in various quests...

[dormetheus]

1. It wasn't clear that it was a mistake as Sin had made no statement or gesture to this effect. The exchange of tells between us only consisted of, what seemed to me, bragging that his raid group was filling and finishing faster.

2. I had already pugged reaver once before this incident, and it failed as well. I was in a bad mood listening to my party griping and whining. I agree, the bard/cleric was overreacting, but she wasn't the only one to die an early death to the sleet storm problem.

3. I'm all for a good greasing/sleeting when the time is right. Sin could have mentioned that he accidentally Extended the sleet, but he didn't, and it caused unnecessary headache.

4. Sending a tell to the other raid leader seemed like the responsible thing to do. I do not know Sin (as apparently so many of you do), and felt that if he was in fact some random griefer (and I had no evidence to the contrary) that the other raid leader would want to know.

5. It IS fairly common knowledge that multiple cloud effects and dancing sphere cause a lot of people a lot of lag. The bard/cleric was healing ok until she died. Maybe she has a crappy machine.

6. Honestly, I moved on, reformed, completed, got my madstone boots, and chalked it all up to an annoying misunderstanding. Then I saw this post here.

Basically, I forgot about it instantly. It's one of the random dangers of PuG-ing. That kind of behavior is all well and good in a group that knows each other (guild/exclusive/static), NOT in a group that's short on heals in the first place.

I'm sorry if I don't have the popular opinion here.

Sin: Reading your OP, I see somewhat where you're coming from, but there's no reason to make me out to look like a ******bag. At a certain point, I just want my completion/loot and to move on.

You weren't aware of my situation, and I wasn't aware of yours. I look forward to grouping with you in the future as you seem like a generally good-natured kind of guy.