How to fix quests Part 2 – and crafting

[Riggs]

Favor was added a ways back to make players run all the quests in the game over again. There is another way that would reward players, and add crafting that wouldn’t break the game.

Right now there is no crafting in the game. The Shroud is like crafting, but you have basically one of 16 pre-set options, so it is not actually crafting per se.

And Turbine has a problem of figuring out how to make players WANT to run quests more than once for favor, since many quests are simply not worth running because they give next to no xp for their level and no loot worth having, so once you run it for favor you never go back.

So here it is – have every quest give something like favor points. One per level of the quest, -2 for short quests +2 for long quests. Every repetition is -1 until you hit 1 point, and the timer either resetting like ransack or something longer maybe.

What do you ‘buy’ with those points? Magic. Buy an item, pick any enhancement you want (other than super rare ones)and make bound item with whatever available enhancements you want on it.

House D would give weapon enhancements. Except vorpal and wops for example, you could make any weapon with whatever combination of damage you can fit to your level -2 and poof its yours.

House K would do armor and protection spells/enhancements. House J healing, House P arcane spells, Coin Lord/Free Agent would be skill and stat items. Desert/Gianthold not sure, Vale nothing except for Shroud. Necropolis maybe also healing/undead protections etc.

So you want a ring that casts a level 10 fireball 3 times per day? Sure – 1000 points (or whatever) Want it maximized? 2000 points. A shield with +5 armor and +4 saves? As long as it matches your level sure. A wand of Heal 1/day, or maybe Restoration etc – it can all be yours once you get enough points build up.

Exceptions would be things like Raise dead, any spells over level 6 maybe, rare weapon effects…but most should be up for grabs. It is magic, there is no reason you shouldn’t be able to make anything with enough points that you could find randomly.

This would give players a reason to run all the quests over again, and more than just a couple, as repetition would lower your points. It would add crafting that isn’t something stupid like “Gather 10 pelts and make a +1 pelt” or whatever.

Most importantly, it would add real crafting that people have been dying for since day one, a staple of D&D – “I pay that wizard 50k gold and in 2 weeks I get a staff of power”

And it would again be a carrot to have people run and enjoy content – knowing that at the end of it you can customize your character far more than you can now.

[Riggs]

Part 1 is in Quests and adventures

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190879

AC

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post2302707

[Thrudh]

Interesting idea...

[pjw]

Some comments; I did not really like this idea much until I read a lot of recent posts about grinding, crafting etc etc. Now I like it.

House D would give weapon enhancements. Except vorpal and wops for example...

Why the exception? Just allow the old-style "two enhancements only" model; shroud is for umpteen enhancements. If I want a WoP let me get my 'favour' and buy the weapon upgrade.

If anyone could have a WoP, or some of the other rare combinations, the equipment based differences between players would be reduced. ANd maybe work would be done to fix quests (if it's not been done already) that become almost trivial with a few of these weapons.

So you want a ring that casts a level 10 fireball 3 times per day? Sure – 1000 points (or whatever) Want it maximized? 2000 points. A shield with +5 armor and +4 saves? As long as it matches your level sure. A wand of Heal 1/day, or maybe Restoration etc – it can all be yours once you get enough points build up.

Sounds fine as long as the 2 enhancements limit and level limitations are applied.

Exceptions would be things like Raise dead...

Again with the 'why'? Apply level limits. A res 1/day ring would not be so unbalancing -- the game already has one, after all. Plus shroud items that res.

It just comes down to providing players with multple ways to get nice equipment.

In terms of the amount of grinding to get a res 1/day ring, it might need to be equivalent to getting 1750 favour. I'd also suggest an n-squared relationship, so lower level enhancements cost considerably less.

One possible problem I can imagine is that we would end up with characters with a clicky for any situation and this would reduce the utility of some classes. But, if the players are willing to grind out that much favour, good luck to them.

This would give players a reason to run all the quests over again, and more than just a couple, as repetition would lower your points.

You may want to consider actually using the current favour and *resetting* it (perhaps keeping elite open etc). This way you would actually *have to* run all the quests again to get more favour. OK, maybe not a good idea to ask 20th levels to run WW...but could be fun to have these scaled according to the player level when it was a 'crafting run'. Replacing the kobolds with Devils and Orthons might be a fun kind of WW.

...And it would again be a carrot to have people run and enjoy content – knowing that at the end of it you can customize your character far more than you can now.

Yes; especially if I could grind to slowly acquire a bound-to-account WoP Rapier or two.

Hey, or even trade my favour for Large Ingredients or Runes.

Giving players multiple avenues for crafting/grinding and reducing the equipment-based player experience differences are all good ideas from my PoV.

[uhgungawa]

So here I am seeing another of Rigg's "How to fix the game" threads thinking GET READY TO BASH. And what do I see? Something thought out and written so people can read it.

Now I'm not going to agree with you, but it is an idea that could have some merit. Favor could use a bit of a revamp. What, I don't know. Is this it, I hope not. Turbine keeps throwing more and more power in to the players, and will at some point just go boom. That trend needs to be curbed. Although things that make players life easier, like teleport, or housing, Banking, ect should be thought of.

But nice input Riggs, better than I was expecting.

CHEERS

[Whargoul]

I would be thrilled to have something like this in game!

Though, it would only further devalue the loot found in chests. Then again, chest loot is nothing but vendor trash 99.999% of the time anyway, so devaluing it another 0.00099% probably isn't going to make much of a noticeable difference.

So, do you have any ideas about how to make the standard chest loot useful?

Also, with the changes in Mod 9, it sounds like someone listened to your request for Quests and Adventures xp adjustments (especially optional xp awards). So not sure if you want to keep linking to the same old post if the devs already fixed them.

-Whargoul
Sarlona: Bottles, Devilride, Brewin, Robotdevil, Bladebarian, Kungfu

[pjw]

So, do you have any ideas about how to make the standard chest loot useful?

I think I read the suggestion (somewhere) that chest loot would form the basis for this kind of enchantment:

- take a +3 Rapier of Deception +3
- Pay to have 'Deception' removed (and ML likely to be decreased)
- Pay to have 'Wounding' added (and ML likely to be increased)
- Pay to have 'Puncturing' added (and ML likely to be increased)

ofc if you start with a plain old +3, the second step is removed.

I'd guess the costs of any such enchantment would be based on the ML of the resulting weapon at each step.

ofc, Riggs may have other ideas!

edit: As soon as any enchanting is done, the weapon becomes bound-to-account (at least).

[Nash]

Apparently you fellows never played pen and paper D&D and/or DDO and do not have a grasp of the magic item mechanics with regards to levels.

All magic additional abilities "ADD" to the "NET" plus of an item such as armor/weapons etc...

for example a +1 longsword is a +1 item

a +1 flaming longsword is a +1, +1 (for flaming, 1d6 of fire) = +2 item equivalent or equivilent to a +2 longsword

a +1 flaming burst longsword is a +1 +2 = +3 item equivalent etc....

thus a +5 Vorpal anything is really a +5 +5 = +10 item equivalent

items were never to exceed the +10 item equivilent and thus

if you are thinking of allowing for a system to swap item abilities you "MUST ALWAYS" follow the rule of "is it legal under the system?

thus a +5 holy vorpal mace of dancing disruption

+5 +2 (holy) +5 (vorpal) +2 (disruption) +4 (dancing) ....net +18 item would'nt fly, and not because we didnt add it (flying in lol) or because Joe player wanted it, but rather because it breaks the rules....its not a free for all lol!

read a Dungeon masters guide some time...and try to understand the game you play...

[pjw]

....its not a free for all lol!

Ignoring the unwarranted personal abuse, I don't think aynone at any stage suggested it should be a free-for-all.

Given that the current DDO system completely breaks the existing PnP rules (eg. shroud gear), all we can really hope for is something that it internally consistent with what is allowed within DDO at the moment.

Hence that we only allow 2 enhancement on a weapon (eg. +5 Flaming of PG), and only using the suffix/prefix model, so, eg, Vorpal/Flaming can not be made.

The OP was fairly non-specific about exactly what could or could not be made -- in some very real sense that is just a detail.

What I believe was the important aspect of the OPs suggestion was that we get to 'spend' some of the 'favours' we have now accumulated, and then somehow work at re-accumulating them.

[Nash]

1) I am in favour of players having ability to "craft" however my point is there must be limits!

2) Crafted items should not be better that specific quest drops, comparable but not quite as good , you want to have a reason to run those instances for the end loot....

3) Yes you can buy anything you want or need now, they call it an auction house. You just may not like the price the farmers have placed on your prized items however.

4) I never liked restricts on how many times you can run quests. In previous Turbine games you could only run certain quests once a week, bi or tri weekly..they became events guilds planned around...or another reason to keep playing...

Turbine doesnt need to "fix" the game, they need to "fix" their approach.

1) They could listen to player feedback from in game reports/testing and not just the whining of the forum trolls, or crazed marketing guru's.

2) They could provide monthly patches of "known bug fixes" (and their is lots of small simple fixes that would greatly improve this game) and quarterly content fixes.

3) foster interest in their game, present and past by allowing players to review prior content to follow and take an interest in the story lines thru the use of vignettes (like they did in prior games) and unlocking them by favour or quests.

4) They could poll (in game only) on login screens, for popularity of directions or future changes like; do players want new classes like druids first or new races like 1/2 orcs? etc....to help decide priorities of changes. See also item 1 on feedback!

5) The game will always be changing, Turbines challenge is to find a nice balance with revenues and support costs. I'm not convinced the F2P is the silver bullet. I would have favoured the approach they took with Lotro with "life" memberships and gathering revenues from "annual" major releases, over monthly subscriptions. The F2P system smacks to me of their attempt to be the gold farmers, i guess they want to join'em to beat 'em.

These are my 2 cents on improvements to the existing product. They are not better than the OP's but rather just different. The game isn't broken, but could always stand some positive and desired changes that the player base wants most.

My opinion is just that, one among a chorus of the existing player base. Forum trolls should'nt dictate to the playing masses, which is why I emphasize polls and feedback thru the game itself, even if its comments to +admin's who have come to assist, bug reports, suggestions or polls at login (1 vote per account/poll).

but do flame on .....

[Bronko]

"The page at http://forums.ddo.com says: you must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Riggs again."

+1 rep anyways buddy.

[pjw]

...but, this time I agree with many of your actual points. If you could just control the hubris, I'd even give you some rep.

1) I am in favour of players having ability to "craft" however my point is there must be limits!

2) Crafted items should not be better that specific quest drops, comparable but not quite as good , you want to have a reason to run those instances for the end loot....

I don't think anyone disagrees here.

3) Yes you can buy anything you want or need now, they call it an auction house. You just may not like the price the farmers have placed on your prized items however.

Yes; and crafting reduces the gold farmers profits and the margin between having uber equipment and non-uber equipment. Both good results.

4) I never liked restricts on how many times you can run quests. In previous Turbine games you could only run certain quests once a week, bi or tri weekly..they became events guilds planned around...or another reason to keep playing...

Turbine doesnt need to "fix" the game, they need to "fix" their approach.

The whole focus on 'fixing' things is probably the worst aspect of this thread. Nothing will 'fix' anything; all we can hope to do is move the game in a desirable direction because the player base is such that it will always seek the edge cases in order to 'get ahead'. 'Fixing' is as best temporary.

1) They could listen to player feedback...

2) They could provide monthly patches...

3) foster interest in their game...

4) They could poll (in game only)...

5) ...Turbines challenge is to find a nice balance with revenues and support costs..

Again, apart from the digression into personal abuse, I agree with most of these points, but they are largely off-topic.

I would not ordinarily defend anyone in the forums, and Riggs is certainly able to defend himself, but FWIW I would say that I have been playing in this game (off and on) since pre-release and that Riggs has been present both in-game in in-forums for a large part of that time (all?). He *may* be a forum troll, but he is also a game-troll. If you read his posts from a *long* time ago, you will probably find they were spot on, and based on extensive experience actually playing the game.

[Riggs]

Heh thanks pjw.

Oh and Nash - Artificers have the ability to 'deconstruct' items to add to their 'crafting pool', and remake things with those 'points'. Extrapolating that to 'I want to remove a trash enhancement from an otherwise good item and add a better one' is a pretty small step.

...and ...its magic...you can do whatever you want even though someone 20 years ago didnt think to put it in the DMG.

I would exclude things like raise dead and vorpals mostly because things like raise dead is included in raid crafting and certain named items already, and now the ddo store, so I would pretty much assume Turbine would never add a general 'anyone can craft this' on a non-raid/non-named item.

Vorpals used to be rare and wops etc - and I could see a lot of compaints if people who have aquired the ultra rare good items, and then a brand new person could suddenly craft it with 500 house D favor or something.

But being able to modify items you have looted, would go a long way to making the random drops useful. Since 99.9% of the time you get something like...a wounding of....power 1. And since the suffix locks out everything else, all the other possible 'good' enhancements you cant do...make it vendor trash like 99.9% of everything else in the game.

The whole prefix/suffix thing is way outdated too - since a) its magic and you should be able to add any enahncements that dont go over your level, and b) no named or raid items follow that rule anyway. Only random loot, and the prefix/suffix rule means that basically pretty much everything you loot is trash, making chests a depressing experience rather than an exciting one.

On a general note - it needs to be repeated that player burnout, getting bored from grinding the same few quests, and general apathy about the game is bad for DDO.

Having a way for a player to customize items, craft whatever spells they want into items - would provide a LOT of replay value, and making it so you have to run the house quests for new 'points'/favor to craft new items would mean people would be running quests that currently almost never get played at all on a regular basis - which would also help newer players looking to try out new quests - rather than 'hey lets run ww/stk/deleras/sc/gianthold like many do. Leaving people looking for different quests to solo or pug it and sit around waiting to fill a quest no one wants to run because its crappy xp.

[Riggs]

I would be thrilled to have something like this in game!

Though, it would only further devalue the loot found in chests. Then again, chest loot is nothing but vendor trash 99.999% of the time anyway, so devaluing it another 0.00099% probably isn't going to make much of a noticeable difference.

So, do you have any ideas about how to make the standard chest loot useful?

Also, with the changes in Mod 9, it sounds like someone listened to your request for Quests and Adventures xp adjustments (especially optional xp awards). So not sure if you want to keep linking to the same old post if the devs already fixed them.

-Whargoul
Sarlona: Bottles, Devilride, Brewin, Robotdevil, Bladebarian, Kungfu

Yeah I saw the change in the release notes for beta not long after I posted that, I was just linking everything because I was writing it as part of a series, so at least if people wanted they could read it....

Being able to alter random loot would go a long way - since say certain rare enhancements would not be craftable by players 'ancient lost arts', or whatever - it would make looking for things still useful, but then you could rip off the 'vorpal of power 2' and make it 'vorpal of good burst' say.

Being able to have a separate crafting ability to alter the metal properties of a weapon would be crazy nice too....