Illusion or Necromancy?

[Firecloud]

Hi all, I have a drow Sorc who just hit lvl 9. I'm trying to improve my insta-kill spells...
My feats are: Empower, Mental toughness, Enlarge, Heighten (I will swap out mental toughness for Spell penetration once i can swap a feat).

Going forward, should I take the feat Spell focus Illusion (for PK), or should I take Spell focus Necromancy (for FoD)? I only get two more feats in this game and want to get your opinions about what to take.. Maybe I should take both?? or what about Great spell penetration??

Keep in mind, I want to specialize in insta-kill spells. thanks.

[Wizzly_Bear]

you wont get fod for several levels, but fod > pk. fod has only one save whereas pk has 2
it also affects more enemies

[arcticwolf666]

I would take Necromancy due to FOD. For the time being you can find illusion items, but prep now for FOD. You will find FOD is a blast and would be grateful you did Also, make sure you have decent spell penetration as the higher ups have more spell resistance. Less chance of failure

This is of course, my opinion

[Lillitheris]

Meh, against non-caster monsters PK is almost equal to FoD. Furthermore, PK costs less than FoD if you have the Improved Heightening enhancements.

And let's not forget Weird, which we will be getting further down the road

[Merkinsal]

I have Maximize instead of Enlarge and then have Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Extend. The Maximize, depending on exactly how your enhancements are set up will give you about 300% damage on a crit which will happen about 12-18% of the time and 150% damage all the time. Extend works really well at higher levels for buffs but especially for Firewall, The extra time on the spells if very useful and saves alot of SP. In comparison, the Spell Focus feat gives you less than 1 out of 10 greater chance to hit on just one class of spell. At level 16 I do not have enough feats for that small benefit imho.

[juniorpfactors]

dump enlarge for sure this will not fit your build...pick up spell resistance feat and necromancy/illusion bracer combo, and lastly necromancy feat
if you want to be a instakiller.....you must max all spell resistance for high end content so i would find a way to get Greater spell pen in there later once your mana # is high dump mental tougness once you have build a nice +++ spell point shroud item

[Firecloud]

In comparison, the Spell Focus feat gives you less than 1 out of 10 greater chance to hit on just one class of spell. At level 16 I do not have enough feats for that small benefit imho.

BUT if I also have an item of the same spell school (eg. +2 illusion), then it would stack with the feat would it not? This increases the DC by 3 right? I would think that's pretty signifigant when i rely on my insta-kill spells landing as much as possible!

I do agree that i need to swap out empower for maximize. would also like to dump mental toughness feat to take spell penetration.. so much to do, so little time! lol

[Firecloud]

[QUOTE=Merkinsal;1710393] have Maximize instead of Enlarge and then have Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Extend. The Maximize, depending on exactly how your enhancements are set up will give you about 300% damage on a crit which will happen about 12-18% of the time and 150% damage all the timeQUOTE]

so do you have max on all the time?? i find much its too easy to burn through mana when using empower/maximize (as well as heightening/enlarge). I want to be as mana efficient as possible, hence the reason i want my PK (and soon to be FoD) to hit 99% of the time if possible..

[Barumar]

[QUOTE=Firecloud;1710520]

have Maximize instead of Enlarge and then have Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Extend. The Maximize, depending on exactly how your enhancements are set up will give you about 300% damage on a crit which will happen about 12-18% of the time and 150% damage all the timeQUOTE]

so do you have max on all the time?? i find much its too easy to burn through mana when using empower/maximize (as well as heightening/enlarge). I want to be as mana efficient as possible, hence the reason i want my PK (and soon to be FoD) to hit 99% of the time if possible..

Remember that you are going to have well over 2000 SP at level 16 (as in 2400+)! Maximize/Empower/Extended Firewalls rock!!! I also leave heighten on most of the time as the SP cost is minimal and makes all my spells act like 9th level!

I use PK/FOD combo every day. Have them next to each other on my hot bar and tab/kill(PK), tab/kill(FOD) all over the Vale, Desert - and of course in the Reaver raid. I do not have either specific focus feat, but do have spell pen as well as items to boost both.

Remember that feat respec tokens are not that tough to get now, as you can 'craft' your own if you save all those dragonshard fragments (forget which name - but the yellow ones!) and have a mule do the compressing (I do while I watch the news as takes so long for each round!) for you

Another feat to think about making room for by level 15 is Force of Personality! My only regret with my build (32 pt Human) is that I put points into WIS! I wish I had known they were going to add this feat, as I love it and those points I put into WIS are now wasted...

Barumar

[rimble]

so do you have max on all the time?? i find much its too easy to burn through mana when using empower/maximize (as well as heightening/enlarge). I want to be as mana efficient as possible, hence the reason i want my PK (and soon to be FoD) to hit 99% of the time if possible..

I had to get rid of my Spell Focus feats. First, because the two Spell Penetration ones were more important--if I don't get through that, nothing else matters. Secondly, because both Maximize and Empower are critical. How much do you plan on PKing or FoDing those red names? Probably not much. Unfortunately, now you can't even do good damage because your Wall of Fire won't do enough damage to get over its Fire resistance either. Or your Acid Fogs. Or whatever. I can't imagine boss fights without having both Maximize and Empower on...at those times you really need to NUKE.

If you plan on taking more Necromany spells that might benefit from the +1 DC also maybe there is more of an argument for taking it, but +1 DC on one instakill spell you use versus trash doesn't matter as much as +50% damage versus red names. Even then sometimes you're only doing damage if you crit your spell.

[juniorpfactors]

to be really honest with you...since you are drow....not human you have less feats
dump extend...no true high ice/fire spec nor insta kill SOC should carry extend after say level 9...when drow...human could gimp themselves for extend but i leave that up to the wizards.....every dc+ matters in elite content, and maximize and empower are an absolute MUST have and never turn of pair of feats...at lvl 1,,,, if you want insta kill via anything...either keep heiten or drop it and pick up Necromancy at 12, really no way to have both, a real soc doesnt need extend on any firewall ...with the right gear..your enemy is dead before your fire is out unextended ..it is a mana waist

jrp

[Ghoste]

FoD, fear, curse, contagion, etc. Necromancy has plenty more going for it than just one spell.

[Firecloud]

to be really honest with you...since you are drow....not human you have less feats
dump extend...no true high ice/fire spec nor insta kill SOC should carry extend after say level 9...when drow...human could gimp themselves for extend but i leave that up to the wizards.....every dc+ matters in elite content, and maximize and empower are an absolute MUST have and never turn of pair of feats...at lvl 1,,,, if you want insta kill via anything...either keep heiten or drop it and pick up Necromancy at 12, really no way to have both, a real soc doesnt need extend on any firewall ...with the right gear..your enemy is dead before your fire is out unextended ..it is a mana waist

jrp

So if I'm understanding this correctly..
- i should keep empowering
- should swap mental toughness and pick up spell penetration ASAP
- at lvl 12 i should take greater spell penetration
- at lvl 15 i should take either maximize OR spell focus Necromancy (for improved FoD). Do i have that right?

[Angelus_dead]

So if I'm understanding this correctly..
- i should keep empowering
- should swap mental toughness and pick up spell penetration ASAP
- at lvl 12 i should take greater spell penetration
- at lvl 15 i should take either maximize OR spell focus Necromancy (for improved FoD). Do i have that right?

Really I think they are overstating the value of Spell Penetration. I think it's unlikely that you'd need any spell pene feats before level 15. Basically, if not for The Shroud raid I wouldn't want them at all. You should be able to tell for yourself if you've been noticing enemies with effective SR. Only get it if and when SR becomes a real problem.

You should try to get Maximize earlier. In fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get it now (such as by swapping Empower for it)

Other notes:
Dropping Mental Toughness is never a bad idea. It gives less of a benefit to sorcs than to any other caster.

Necromancy focus will not only improve the Finger of Death spell, but also Bestow Curse and Fear, which are helpful to many sorcerers.

[Merkinsal]

BUT if I also have an item of the same spell school (eg. +2 illusion), then it would stack with the feat would it not? This increases the DC by 3 right? I would think that's pretty signifigant when i rely on my insta-kill spells landing as much as possible!

I do agree that i need to swap out empower for maximize. would also like to dump mental toughness feat to take spell penetration.. so much to do, so little time! lol

As a character who is strictly a caster, not a fighter I would:

Definitely pick up the items. The focus feat is just better spent somewhere else imo. Maybe as the level caps go up and we get more feats I can put some in focus, but that is a long way off.

I always leave maximize and empower on.

Red names are tough for us in the mod 6 content because they are fire resistant and purples because they have sooo many hps. DPS seems least effective over all. At the same time, crowd control, pk and fod are more useful than ever due to the devils, clerics, trogs, lions, and other stuff. So many choices. I am trying to maintain a balance between cc, insta kill and dps which I hope will let me useful to parties (important distinction I think) in all the content (necropolis, gianthold, vale) to some degree. I think I can do that without being too weak in any one area. Green steel dagger, focus item(s) and high Cha is great for +dc. Feats (all), enhancements (all) and spell penetration item to overcome spell resistance. Feats, enhancments, and superior pot item for dps. Buffs for support.

Soon I guess we are going to the Shattrah home plane and I guess that means more devils and orthons. I wonder if DPS will be the least needed of all. In fact, lol, you have me wondering what my sorc would be like without any dps at all. I sure like my scorching ray, disintegrate, firewall and other dps on occasion but a party will not live or die by them in mod 6. You may have a stronger build for specific upper content with focus feats imo. Dismissal and banishment will not work on their home plane. fod and pk should work great. They will have higher saves and spell resistance than ever.

[Desteria]

I think spell pen and Gtr spell pen can come at levels 12 and 15, yiou dotn realyl need the reallly good spell pen till then, dotn forget to getthe Spell pen AP's as well.

Personaly my sorc sort of a can do it all build, has Highten, Extend, MAx, Emp, PEN, GTR PEN, skill focus(UMD) frr some one REALLY focused on instakilling and a drow you lose skill focus to beign a drow, I would then drop either Emp &/or Extened for Spell focus necro/Gtr focus necro If you really want to focus on instakilling then you want crazzy silly high DC you never want to cast twice

[juniorpfactors]

So if I'm understanding this correctly..
- i should keep empowering
- should swap mental toughness and pick up spell penetration ASAP
- at lvl 12 i should take greater spell penetration
- at lvl 15 i should take either maximize OR spell focus Necromancy (for improved FoD). Do i have that right?

i would say...

lvl 1 max, emp
lvl 3 heiten
lvl 6 mental tougness
lvl 9 spell penetration
lvl 12 greater spell pen
lvl 15 necromancy....would be my suggestion...but if you love extend you can go there at 6, and push the spell pens to 12,15
i view extend as nothing but a buff mana drain...with lvl cap moving toward 18 ... @ 16 they all last long enough 95% of the time

[Desteria]

Extend is not for min per level buffs it;s for Haste, displacmemnt, rage, Fire sheild, WoF, Acid fog

[Lizardgrad89]

To the advice given to dump enlarge and extend, I have to strongly disagree.

1. Extend. This is a HUGE mana saver!

Double the length of the displacement you cast on yourself for 10 SP.
Double the length of the party haste for 10 SP
Double the length of the Disco Ball, Solid Fog, Glitterdust, or any other CC you toss out for 10 SP.
Double the length of resistances and prots for 10 SP

Remember, this is an OPTIONAL USE feat. Maybe that firewall will last long enough, maybe not. There are LOTS of MOBs that even a maximized, empowered, superior potency-ed, fire specced sorc cant kill with a single short-length firewall. It's certainly better to cast one 85 SP firewall than two 75 SP firewalls.

Used wisely, Extend can make your mana go a LOT farther!

2. Enlarge. This is instakill's best friend!

Ever try to kill a beholder or other caster while they are casting on you or dispelling you? It's tough. MUCH EASIER to simply stand outside their range and blow them away before they even know you are there. Nothing like killing all the beholders in VON 3 without anyone in the party getting a scratch.

This is also great for casting charm monster from far away. Done right, you can get all the MOBS fighting before they can orient on you. Cloud kill or FW on high ledges, etc. Any good sized quest or landscape almost cries out for the use of enlarge.


I find it amusing that two of the very best caster feats in the game get so little respect.


In other news:

Spell penetration: 1 feat, max the enhancements, get a Belt of the Seven Ideals for the +2 Spell pen to Lvl VII spells, this should be enough Spell pen at level 16. Greater SP feat at 18? Might need it then, yeah.

[juniorpfactors]

if you cant live on a 1:30 haste and re- haste as necessary thats a joke...discplacement is almost not necessary in end game on yourself..............HE WANTS TO BUILD A KILLER ......NOT A BUFFER

your suggestions are a wizard feat spec build....wether you admit or not....as i said its optional....but I dont think its necessary AT all...let your wizard or bard get the haste and discplacements cast as well as greater H

to leave a feat on just so you can get a beholder or a wind elemental in reaver from long distant on a Drow feat thirsty soc is short sighted..98% of the time its not needed

you are obviously not running hard/elite shrouds or elite 16+ lvl content nightly....firewall not last long enough...well thats a joke...never and i mean never would I ever need to cast an extended firewall...if I need another you cast it...otherwise its a complete was of feat and mana...becuase it gets left on toggling it on and off is a nightmare.....a soc with extend is giving up his insta kill power and mana

jrp

jrp