Fighter - Kensei upcoming changes (and SD tweaks)

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Just a logic/philosophical point to make given some of the recent posts here comparing Fighter to other classes, especially other melee types Ranger TWF and Barbarian THF.

Unfortunately, the game has shifted to where one is playing more of a racing game than an RPG. There's a phrase used in the guild a lot: Kill faster, don't die slower. The reason, many experienced guild members see that the DPS approach is preventing deaths (a good Offense is the best Defense), whereas the tanking approach is resulting in deaths. i.e. one can kill faster (and live), or die slower (and still die), in current game.

Is this a generalization? Yes, but it's a logic point to make, that with the game we have where an Elite quest Champion can suddenly and randomly generate big hits, you need to eliminate that Champ soon as possible regardless your health total (especially when the randomization sometimes spawns multiple Champs, each with odds chances to big hit/one-hit kill you, thus increasing odds of death for each second you continue to stand in their presence). This has negated the value of tanking and increased the value of characters that kill Champs more quickly.

So, I will now propose a more radical change to Fighter Tank/Defensive trees specifically - to enable either a high level Core Enhancement or a Tier V that counters Champion's buffs and one-hit kills, potentially reducing a Champion to just another NPC target. Maybe you have to hold a Tower Shield for it to work, and/or wear Heavy Armor, and/or some other condition, or maybe it's a set of bonus Saves in triplicate, but one area this thread is lacking in is toward the point that a Tank Fighter is not a valued asset for most players and groups in the current game we have.

This isn't the only solution, but the thread hasn't delved much into this issue yet.

honestly im hoping that this isnt the complete fighter pass, just a kensei pass. because if this is the entire fighter pass, it hasnt touched on many areas of the class that need addressing and is really disappointing.

personally i think tanks are sort of great now for specific encounters, such as sorjek. i know everyone says just kite him and most pugs dont have the coordination to not juggle his aggro haphazardly all around the plat form, but ive tanked him on a barb on le just intimidating and shield blocking. i expect a full tank fighter who invests enough into hp and hamp to do way better than i did. but i agree that most of the time, its better to leverage our wildly inflated dps rather than our mildly inflated hps.

[Phil7]

So, I will now propose a more radical change to Fighter Tank/Defensive trees specifically - to enable either a high level Core Enhancement or a Tier V that counters Champion's buffs and one-hit kills, potentially reducing a Champion to just another NPC target. Maybe you have to hold a Tower Shield for it to work, and/or wear Heavy Armor, and/or some other condition, or maybe it's a set of bonus Saves in triplicate, but one area this thread is lacking in is toward the point that a Tank Fighter is not a valued asset for most players and groups in the current game we have.

This isn't the only solution, but the thread hasn't delved much into this issue yet.

I did delve into the issue, but my post was lost in the flood, caused by those 2 guys and their walls of text.
Your suggestion is similar to mine, either a new tank capstone or paladin/fighter only high level/epic feats. Add something unique to them like -20% damage if wearing heavy armor & large/tower shield. Please avoid adding just PRR, because it gives so little after already having 250+ of it.

Also some form of resistance to Force damage, given only to tanks would be great. Right now Force damage just explodes in your face and only high HP can save you from it. It seems logical that at least the Tank should be able to mitigate it somehow.

[Qhualor]

Also some form of resistance to Force damage, given only to tanks would be great. Right now Force damage just explodes in your face and only high HP can save you from it. It seems logical that at least the Tank should be able to mitigate it somehow.

Shield or Nightshield scrolls.

[Talon_Dragonsbane]

Kensai changes seem underwhelming. Having the extended crit range in Kensai T5 locks out T5 Vanguard for anyone wanting to go that route.

I'd like to see that crit range be more accessible. Also maybe have a +5(W) attack in Kensai T5.

[FranOhmsford]

Kensai changes seem underwhelming. Having the extended crit range in Kensai T5 locks out T5 Vanguard for anyone wanting to go that route.

I'd like to see that crit range be more accessible. Also maybe have a +5(W) attack in Kensai T5.

Core 3 or higher to remove it from the range of easy splash. {Min 6 Fighter Levels rather than the 5 for T5} but make it available to all Pure Fighters!

[Astarii]

i find that if you wanted to have a monk/fighter with the idea of a classic oriental type toon, you really need to investing a lot on the fighter side for the enhancement points. what i'm tying to say is if you have a irregular weapon, for example, if you imagined a dwarf, human or 1/2 orc with a maul/2 handed-hammer, its min. of 5 levels fighter, and ~34 enhancement points just to use the weapon centered. because your forced to go up both side on the Kensei tree.


Can we make a feat for centering a broad group such as bludgeoning focus, piercing focused etc.
or even some lower tier enhancement (perhaps tier 2 or tier 3 enhancement) where i could pick one of those and have it be a weapon group i could be centered with without having the cost be so high?

[Astarii]

i forgot to mention, it would be sweet if there was a tier 5 enhancement that allowed the use of two-handed weapons in both hands. a some what modified monkey grip like enhancement. something like that would pull alot of interest back to fighters

[Powerhungry]

Shield or Nightshield scrolls.

I believe both of those only protect you from magic missiles but do nothing against force missiles, chain missiles or the book in L Shroud.

[Qhualor]

I believe both of those only protect you from magic missiles but do nothing against force missiles, chain missiles or the book in L Shroud.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_%28spell%29

[Vish]

Hey I just wanted to chime in on recommendations
I don't play fighter much, except for that one tree build...
Mostly splash for feats on my melee mc

But would you please

Delicious low hanging fruit
Topped with cherries

Thanks

[Belgarath22]

I am not an expert on builds and this stuff, I just like to play the game.. And learn things while I do that :)

As some guys says, this seems a powerful (and nice buff) to fighter that will bring more viable builds into the game, and that is good for the diversity.

I can t comment much more about it except that there isnt too much people talking about this

Well, I have a fighter at 30 now.. I would like to do the etr when this changes come live but I think it will be too late for me, as I am almost ready to etr :/

[Talon_Dragonsbane]

I feel Weapons Master T5 should allow the fighter to be proficient in all weapons including exotic weapons, otherwise why call it Weapons Master?

[Tilomere]

I don't play fighter much, except for that one tree build...


Oh right, forgot to also give feedback that you don't seem to fully program a lot of the newer attacks to work properly, or at all with unarmed, animal form, or AoN form. So you are making the tree builds a haphazard guess that you have to level 1-20 to try out. These include the new paladin attacks that don't work at all, new bard attacks that don't work at all and don't work properly, and divine crusader strike down and attacks that don't work at all or don't work properly.

If you are not going to program abilities to work in animal form, AoN form, or unarmed, please put notes in the abilities descriptions.

[Renatochewie]

Any chance of fixing whirlwind attack for weapons? it's a great feat but only for unarmed which makes it a monk only option in most cases.

[Phil7]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_%28spell%29

Three Barel Cove, EE ghost of a chance

Combat: Sniper Drone's (champion) arcane blast hit you for 918 points of force damage.

Unfortunately I can't find anywhere the ''upload image'' button.

And who cares about magic misilles...

[the_one_dwarfforged]

so, its been a while. is there anything going on with this?

or can this at least get onto lamma so i can play around with it? cause this is the only reason im going to log into ddo right now.

[BigErkyKid]

so, its been a while. is there anything going on with this?



+1

[Lauf]

Hi Sev,

saw the lamma version of the kensai changes this weekend, and I have to ask:

what was the point of starting this thread if you're not going to make any changes based on the feedback?

maybe I'm missing something, but it seems you've just went ahead with the plan.
which is fine, but why waste our time with asking for feedback?

[Grailhawk]

Hi Sev,

saw the lamma version of the kensai changes this weekend, and I have to ask:

what was the point of starting this thread if you're not going to make any changes based on the feedback?

maybe I'm missing something, but it seems you've just went ahead with the plan.
which is fine, but why waste our time with asking for feedback?


It serves as a preview of whats coming, would much rather they keep that up. Just because you don't like or agree with the direction there design work has gone doesn't mean this thread is a waist of time. At the very least it lets them know what the community thinks for the next time this kind of think comes up.

[BigErkyKid]

It serves as a preview of whats coming, would much rather they keep that up. Just because you don't like or agree with the direction there design work has gone doesn't mean this thread is a waist of time. At the very least it lets them know what the community thinks for the next time this kind of think comes up.

I am not sure I fully agree. Given that there was absolutely no change, it is fair to say that the NO feedback was taken. Whether they just keep in mind, as if we were yet another focus group, we cannot know.

I think they had a very clear idea of the scope of the fighter revamp and they will probably just change some parameters based on what comes out in lama. I feel they trust better that feedback which is anyway more on point with what they had in mind. That's why I told Cetus earlier on in the thread to not bother giving game changing suggestions.

I also think that they DPS tests are kobold beatdowns, pretty similar to ours :P

All in all I am disappointed at the kind of changes we can expect moving forward with classes. For the most part they just adjust a few numbers (the typical run speed, crit ranges treatment). But frankly I also think that by now we have had enough warning that this is what they are capable of changing (because of resources, coding issues, etc.). So I don't feel legitimized to go on a raging mode anymore. Take it or leave it. Based on this I do not foresee playing the fighter class again, though.

[shinsirhc]

The dps of fighter in lamannia is still weaker compared to tempest, barb, and swashbuckler. mind you those other class have better healing and saves compared to fighter.

why make haste boost reduce to 20 sec cooldown like the other melee with haste boost?

i hate that One Cut shares cooldown with haste boost. You should make this one passive since you reduce the duration of haste boost.

do we really have to select the "weapon" every time we click on the the weapon group specialization isn't that supposed to be automatic?

[Lauf]

It serves as a preview of whats coming, would much rather they keep that up. Just because you don't like or agree with the direction there design work has gone doesn't mean this thread is a waist of time. At the very least it lets them know what the community thinks for the next time this kind of think comes up.


please note I've no problem with them providing a preview of things to come.
I do however have a problem with letting people write up 14 pages of thoughtful discussion about how the kensai enhancements should look when there's no intention of changing the plan. To me, that seems disrespectful.

[Grailhawk]

please note I've no problem with them providing a preview of things to come.
I do however have a problem with letting people write up 14 pages of thoughtful discussion about how the kensai enhancements should look when there's no intention of changing the plan. To me, that seems disrespectful.

I think your expectations for this kind of think and the balance pass in general may be to hight.

[Lauf]

I think your expectations for this kind of think and the balance pass in general may be to hight.

May be...

I thought after the blow up a few years back, and the improved communication over the past few years that ddo was (finally) perceived as a joint project, where how players perceived the classes, their roles and their performance, and what it should be, was taken into consideration. From what I could tell, more often than not it did indeed play a part.

that led me to believe that this time would be no different, especially after reading certain devs mention that doing right by kensai was on their wish list for a long time now.

so yea, I expected this to be more than lip service, much in the way the barbarian, bard and paladin passes were strongly influenced by player input.
and I also expected this to be more than just a dps adjustment for the fighter class.

at the time it seemed like a reasonable expectation... and normally I'd happily jump on my high horse and advocate for the good people at turbine and player involvement, but sadly it seems this time you're right, as it's hard to argue in the face of outcome.

live and learn I guess.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Hi Sev,

saw the lamma version of the kensai changes this weekend, and I have to ask:

what was the point of starting this thread if you're not going to make any changes based on the feedback?

maybe I'm missing something, but it seems you've just went ahead with the plan.
which is fine, but why waste our time with asking for feedback?

Make changes based on feedback, that is TOO FUNNY! lol
+1 for your awesome sense of humor sir!

[CrackedIce]

I am sure it has been said, but which of these clickies work with ranged attacks? Presumably they all should since your weapon focus could be Bow, crossbow, and or throwing as well.

Thanks.

[Kompera_Oberon]

The dps of fighter in lamannia is still weaker compared to tempest, barb, and swashbuckler. mind you those other class have better healing and saves compared to fighter.

The above quote is really what things boil down to. If anything it did not go far enough as there are classes other than Ranger, Barbarian, and Bard which were not listed but which also offer higher DPS and self healing.

The new Kensai tree accomplishes 2 things, and two things only: It tweaks Fighter DPS up while still leaving Fighters at the bottom of the melee DPS ranking, and it removes a dependency on being a Monk multi-class. If these two things were the entire goal of the devs when beginning this project, then they have met those goals.

But since Fighter DPS with these changes is still under every other melee DPS build, and since Fighters still lack the self-healing that every other melee DPS build enjoys, if implemented "as is" the Kensai tree changes will be a well-intentioned failure. The very best Fighter melee DPS builds will still be weaker in melee damage contribution while lacking in self healing, and therefore when measuring which class to select in order to play an effective melee DPS, the Fighter will be at the bottom of the list. Just as it is today. So, a lot of work will have been invested for a net sum of zero change in the class balance goalposts. A gimp class selection will have had a little bit of the gimp removed, and that is all.

[Nohbob]

Hello all,

Wanted to give people a heads up with the state of the Kensei and Update 31. There are several changes that will not be included when the update goes live, but will be added in a future patch, coming soon.

These changes include:

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements
• Opportunity Attack: 2 Charges, Melee Attack: Deals +1/2/3[W] Damage. Your Melee Power is boosted by 10 for 6 seconds. Each time you damage an opponent, but no more than once per second, you have a 10% chance to add a charge up to a maximum of 2.
• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Crit Multiplier Increase (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)


We will also be monitoring additional feedback on the Kensei and seeing if additional changes are needed.

Thanks
Nohbob

[btolson]

Hello all,

Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Crit Multiplier Increase (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)



Is this still going to put haste boost on cooldown as well? If so, this is ability is still irrelevant and adds nothing to the class (haste boost is much more powerful than +1 mult, especially with 25% uptime).

[Nohbob]

Is this still going to put haste boost on cooldown as well? If so, this is ability is still irrelevant and adds nothing to the class (haste boost is much more powerful than +1 mult, especially with 25% uptime).

Will look into swapping the cooldown type as well.

[Seikojin]

Will look into swapping the cooldown type as well.

Yeah, I think having it on its own cooldown would be a pre-requisite for it to be useful. ;)

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Hello all,

Wanted to give people a heads up with the state of the Kensei and Update 31. There are several changes that will not be included when the update goes live, but will be added in a future patch, coming soon.

These changes include:

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements
• Opportunity Attack: 2 Charges, Melee Attack: Deals +1/2/3[W] Damage. Your Melee Power is boosted by 10 for 6 seconds. Each time you damage an opponent, but no more than once per second, you have a 10% chance to add a charge up to a maximum of 2.
• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Crit Multiplier Increase (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)


We will also be monitoring additional feedback on the Kensei and seeing if additional changes are needed.

Thanks
Nohbob

opportunity attack: still think this should be renamed opportunity for improvement. or oopsortunity attack. or p**prtunity attack. seriously, pushing buttons to maintain buffs (which is already an unpleasantly massive part of being successful at this game) is not what players want, because its a marginal benefit you have to work to maintain, and doesnt feel like a choice. make this an actual attack, and people will like it. as it is it sucks, and i dont like it, and it has not changed since it was first posted in this thread despite pretty much all comments about it being negative. thank you, just fkin thank you. at this point i would rather that you guys in fact did NOT add this ability, as im going to feel forced to spend ap on it, and feel forced to use it, and i would really rather not. cue bs counter argument. whatever.

liquid courage: oh my god, this singlehandedly makes this post the most incredible amazing post that ever existed. lolfactor reading at 1,651,684.2. that is a lot of lolfactor. honestly this is so hysterically ******** its goes from not being funny, all the way around the wheel of funny back to being not funny and continues on until it finally lands in the funny zone. good spin guys, good spin. ya know why p**prtunity attack sucks? yea, this is like that, but MUCH MUCH WORSE. if you dont already know why, then its not even worth it to explain because you would actually have to play the game to understand. honestly, this is a slap in the face and clearly favors people using store pots. gee i wonder who that benefits? seriously, was this enhancement designed by the accountants at wb? **** this, **** you, **** them, and **** your couch.

one cut: yea, change the cd type or whatever you call it and i have no complaints. until then, still pretty bad.

also you guys have not addressed any of the ap cost or prereq issues that plague this tree. if you could at least give me a good reason why dodge is a prereq for spending 3 ap on 6 prr makes sense, i could live with it. this is what i call unfinished and rushed.

i should have posted this on friday.

/ibtl /wavesbye

[Ovrad]

• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Courage = healing better?
I don't understand. My blood is so courageous it's coagulating faster?
*confused*

[Krelar]

• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds


Will the healing amp boost take effect before or after the the potion effects? Put another way, do I need to drink a cheap potion before drinking my healing potion?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

on liquid courage:

heres a simlar buff i recommend for thief acrobat:

Expert Ladder Climber:

Upon successfully climbing a ladder, you gain +1 to hit and damage for 3 seconds.

[janave]

Hello all,

Wanted to give people a heads up with the state of the Kensei and Update 31. There are several changes that will not be included when the update goes live, but will be added in a future patch, coming soon.

These changes include:

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements
• Opportunity Attack: 2 Charges, Melee Attack: Deals +1/2/3[W] Damage. Your Melee Power is boosted by 10 for 6 seconds. Each time you damage an opponent, but no more than once per second, you have a 10% chance to add a charge up to a maximum of 2.
• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Crit Multiplier Increase (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)


We will also be monitoring additional feedback on the Kensei and seeing if additional changes are needed.

Thanks
Nohbob

Hello,

1, I still feel like Opportunity Attack is kind weird, because of the stack building only going to 2. Plus, ohmy toomanyclickies already. Id probably drop the whole charge to tier-2 concept, make it a decent attack maybe similar animation to momentum swing, with some minor passive MP.

2, I see your workaround here :d, not bad but considering the huge hamp barbs can get passively, the 75% from pot drink would been better.

3, Duration should be the standard 20 seconds action boost, if it has its own cooldown this gets an OK.

Any chance for a future patch improving the WW attack feat ? (specifically for Fighters as a bonus)

[Kompera_Oberon]

liquid courage: oh my god, this singlehandedly makes this post the most incredible amazing post that ever existed. lolfactor reading at 1,651,684.2. that is a lot of lolfactor. honestly this is so hysterically ******** its goes from not being funny, all the way around the wheel of funny back to being not funny and continues on until it finally lands in the funny zone. good spin guys, good spin. ya know why p**prtunity attack sucks? yea, this is like that, but MUCH MUCH WORSE. if you dont already know why, then its not even worth it to explain because you would actually have to play the game to understand. honestly, this is a slap in the face and clearly favors people using store pots. gee i wonder who that benefits? seriously, was this enhancement designed by the accountants at wb? **** this, **** you, **** them, and **** your couch.

Calm the hell down...

Ok, here is why Liquid Courage is a failure with good intentions. Healing Amp 50, if untyped and stacking with everything, is nice, and seems like it is intended to address the Fighters lack of self healing. But... Drinking a CSW pot every 30 seconds to keep it in effect is a click fest requirement which also takes away from melee DPS every time it is re-activated. And it begs the question of where the real healing is coming from to benefit from that nice +50 Hamp. Because it isn't the CSW pot that's doing that, right? You don't actually think this, right? Please tell me that you don't.

Fighters, unlike most other melee dps builds, don't stack positive spell power naturally, and can't really do so without severe trade-offs. Paladins, Rangers, and Druids do so easily, and it offers them multiple benefits, not just to Cocoon. If a Fighter trades other things for positive spell power they boost only Cocoon. And that CSW pot. So that Hamp will help them self heal a bit with Cocoon, but still not as well as almost every other melee DPS build is capable of, even without that +50 Hamp if you consider their other options and their easier access to positive spell power.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Calm the hell down...

Ok, here is why Liquid Courage is a failure with good intentions. Healing Amp 50, if untyped and stacking with everything, is nice, and seems like it is intended to address the Fighters lack of self healing. But... Drinking a CSW pot every 30 seconds to keep it in effect is a click fest requirement which also takes away from melee DPS every time it is re-activated. And it begs the question of where the real healing is coming from to benefit from that nice +50 Hamp. Because it isn't the CSW pot that's doing that, right? You don't actually think this, right? Please tell me that you don't.

Fighters, unlike most other melee dps builds, don't stack positive spell power naturally, and can't really do so without severe trade-offs. Paladins, Rangers, and Druids do so easily, and it offers them multiple benefits, not just to Cocoon. If a Fighter trades other things for positive spell power they boost only Cocoon. And that CSW pot. So that Hamp will help them self heal a bit with Cocoon, but still not as well as almost every other melee DPS build is capable of, even without that +50 Hamp if you consider their other options and their easier access to positive spell power.

if this doesnt apply to the first potion, then good. removes the obvious p2w there. i dont think 50 hamp is a bad buff itself, its how you get it that simply ruins the whole thing for a myriad of reasons.

its still garbage for a myriad of reasons anyway. also, i dont think text appropriately depicts my mood. im calm. resigned, and calm.

[Kompera_Oberon]

Courage = healing better?
I don't understand. My blood is so courageous it's coagulating faster?
*confused*

You wiggle your fingers so magic happens. No one cares.


Will the healing amp boost take effect before or after the the potion effects? Put another way, do I need to drink a cheap potion before drinking my healing potion?

No one cares, your question is irrelevant. No one is going to carry a stack of CLW pots just to save a few plat if the effect is after instead of activated with and getting the benefit from immediately. There are much greater issues at hand.

Try to focus, people!

[janave]

How about this for liquid courage:

ap1: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s
ap2: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s
ap3: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s

Additionally on T3 - each potion you drink also applies a lesser vigor (or low CL vigor?) on you. Basically this turns regular CSW pots into those heal over time ones, not much but should be enough until you get cocoon.

[BigErkyKid]

Why do I have to fish the updates from page 20 of an old thread? Create a new thread for every iteration.

Furthermore, more than an iteration this is simply a progress report. You already had this stuff in the pipe line before but you didn't make it to the previous lama build.

Finally, not impressed by the clicky, and seriously annoyed at the healing buff. Healing amp is nice, but why the timer? How is my gameplay better by having to click every 30 seconds on a CSW pot? I really don't understand why you guys keep making these abilities.

Active combat =/= click fest. Specially when the clicks don't really do anything but provide some passive abilities. I like clickies that involve strategic thinking (which mob do I stun?), but must have clickies are onerous. It is mindless clicking then. Abilities that can be kept close to 100% uptime is making as do chores to play effectively, not forcing us to make combat tactical choices.

This applies to most of the buffs that can be kept almost always on even if they cost resources. Obviously the ones that don't even cost anything (the barb frenzies, or to a bit of a lesser extent the ranger AOE) are just plain awful. I have yet to find a single player who likes 100% uptime clickies. In fact I mostly see players build around them when possible. Then exactly what is the feedback or the reasoning you are taking to freaking give us more of these abilities?

Coming back to the healing buff, I think that this will just push people towards BF fighters. Some hamp won't solve the real issue and we already had quite a bit of hamp around and SF pots. A HoT a la lesser vigor that consumes an action boost or is on a timer could do it, even though it might be hard to justify thematically.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Coming back to the healing buff, I think that this will just push people towards BF fighters.

not enough ap. i sooooooo wish there was, cause i want to be a robot again.

but newp.

[Kompera_Oberon]

Someone who gets it.


Finally, not impressed by the clicky, and seriously annoyed at the healing buff. Healing amp is nice, but why the timer? How is my gameplay better by having to click every 30 seconds on a CSW pot? I really don't understand why you guys keep making these abilities.
Agreed:

Healing Amp 50, if untyped and stacking with everything, is nice, and seems like it is intended to address the Fighters lack of self healing. But... Drinking a CSW pot every 30 seconds to keep it in effect is a click fest requirement which also takes away from melee DPS every time it is re-activated.

I am shocked. Shocked I say (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME) that the player base is more capable of pointing out these issues than the development team. Basic math is still taught in elementary school, and that is all which is required to evaluate the DPS of a particular build against another.

[HuneyMunster]

How about this for liquid courage:

ap1: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s
ap2: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s
ap3: passive 10 hamp, +10 when drinking for 30s

Additionally on T3 - each potion you drink also applies a lesser vigor (or low CL vigor?) on you. Basically this turns regular CSW pots into those heal over time ones, not much but should be enough until you get cocoon.

Something like this would help. CSW pots would have to be as useful as Silver Flame pots for Liquid Courage to work. Though my assassin has always had to make do with just rejuvenation cocoon in epics as heal scrolls tend to get interrupted by concentration checks. The difference is fighters are usually meant to be the ones taking the hits.

The problem is I can see Fighter could become the *new* Barbarian....

[cru121]

Don't forget about:
- repair amp if forged
- negative amp if undead

Dwarves already have an enhancement that grants em additional benefits whenever they drink any pot. Why not reuse the technology to add:
- Aid effect / False Life effect
- Remove Fear (courage...)
- extra Cure Moderate Wounds
- Protection from Elements (CL:1?)
- Break out the Leeches (halfling DM effect with some limited duration)

Additional options for Liquid Courage; would you be able to implement any of these?
- apply heal amp buff before drinking the pot
- add fighter level to potion caster level (a la artificer)
- shorten drinking animation
- shorten cooldown
- doublequaff - chance? for your potion to doublestrike or crit

[Qhualor]

what is the reasoning for 100% uptime on Liquid Courage? I fail to understand why anyone would want to keep the +50 hamp going in a BYOH game.

[Qhualor]

Hello all,

These changes include:

• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Thanks
Nohbob

please make this a multiselector for heal amp or repair amp.

[Therrias]

if this doesnt apply to the first potion, then good. removes the obvious p2w there.

Game features that encourage you to use real money and are designed to generate revenue are p2w.

Game features that encourage you to remove fake game currency from the fake game economy are called currency sinks (plat sink, in DDO). They are designed to fight inflation.

[Requiro]

Hello all,

Wanted to give people a heads up with the state of the Kensei and Update 31. There are several changes that will not be included when the update goes live, but will be added in a future patch, coming soon.

These changes include:

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements
• Opportunity Attack: 2 Charges, Melee Attack: Deals +1/2/3[W] Damage. Your Melee Power is boosted by 10 for 6 seconds. Each time you damage an opponent, but no more than once per second, you have a 10% chance to add a charge up to a maximum of 2.
• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds

Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Crit Multiplier Increase (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)


We will also be monitoring additional feedback on the Kensei and seeing if additional changes are needed.

Thanks
Nohbob

Even more clicky?

Com'on guys, why can't it be something like that:

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements
• Opportunity Attack: Passive : Every time you use Kensei Melee Attack, Your melee Power is boosted by 10 for 6 second. Stacks 3 times. (2 AP)
• Liquid Courage: Passive: Any potions you use will benefit from additional stacking with everything +50 Positive/Negative/Repair Healing Amplification (1 AP)
Core Skills:
• Change Core Level 18 "One Cut" skill to the following: On Activate, Your weapons gain Vorpal ability and Crit Multiplier Increase +1 (Unique Bonus for 15 seconds, 60 second cooldown)

One more question: Are these new abilities that rise Critical Multiplier and Threat stack with old one? (from A Good Death and Keen Edge abilities?) Or they all Competence thus do not stack?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Is this still going to put haste boost on cooldown as well? If so, this is ability is still irrelevant and adds nothing to the class (haste boost is much more powerful than +1 mult, especially with 25% uptime).

THIS.

Because it is not just under powered, it is basically USELESS if it shares cool downs.

[Loromir]

is this still going to put haste boost on cooldown as well? If so, this is ability is still irrelevant and adds nothing to the class (haste boost is much more powerful than +1 mult, especially with 25% uptime).
nvm

[Grailhawk]

Tier 4: Added the following 2 Enhancements

• Liquid Courage: After drinking a potion or drink, increases Positive Healing Amplification 50 for 30 seconds


Is this self stacking?

Say I chug 4 potions in the span of 8 seconds what is the addition to my healing amp at the end of that +50 or +200?

[Kompera_Oberon]

I fail to understand
And this is why you are on the Player's Council.

[Qhualor]

And this is why you are on the Player's Council.

thanks for the reminder. you are one of the few people I missed putting on my ignore list.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Usually the FIRST POTION is the one I NEED THE MOST!!

Seriously, come on man. Just give us a enhancement that pure fighters can have that gives a big old boost to healing when drinking a pot ANYTIME.

For PURE fighters. All you other flackies already can self heal.

[Qhualor]

Usually the FIRST POTION is the one I NEED THE MOST!!

Seriously, come on man. Just give us a enhancement that pure fighters can have that gives a big old boost to healing when drinking a pot ANYTIME.

For PURE fighters. All you other flackies already can self heal.

pure fighters already can self heal by using pots. this particular enhancement is more useful in heroics than in epics when pure fighters are going to be either twisting Cocoon or Consecrated Ground and can build for UMD. the biggest problem is building into a non caster class enough sp between shrines. depending on a variety of things like equipping a Cha item, Spider Mask from the expansion, putting every level up point into UMD, UMD tomes, Cha tomes and GH you can no fail scrolls in epics at no build sacrifice. no heal amp on a pure fighter you can heal for ~500 hit points with SF pots. decent heal amp like with gear, ship buffs and past lives you can get ~800 and can definitely go higher with more investment. the biggest issue is the penalty though for drinking SF pots.

with all that said, I like the direction behind this enhancement but we are about 5 years too late. I still think we should have ML 20 CCW pots, but Consecrated Ground would still be my preferred primary healing. actually, despite this enhancement my character when she is done with past lives is still going to be a BF fighter just because of CoS. heal scrolls between fights.

[Nandos]

Fighters need a fighter only feat that helps with the healing. That way, no matter what race or build the fighter is, they get some help. Something like:

name tbd - All potions and liquids heal/repair for 50% more.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Fighters need a fighter only feat that helps with the healing. That way, no matter what race or build the fighter is, they get some help. Something like:

name tbd - All potions and liquids heal/repair for 50% more.

no, a feat is the worst way to do it. i dont want them to add any more passive buff feats to fighter that arent really choices.

the only feats they should be adding are abilities which do different interesting things.

[Kompera_Oberon]

thanks for the reminder. you are one of the few people I missed putting on my ignore list.

Your failure in following even your own processes is no great surprise. There's no need for you to announce it to the forums, we already know.

[Kompera_Oberon]

no, a feat is the worst way to do it. i dont want them to add any more passive buff feats to fighter that arent really choices.

the only feats they should be adding are abilities which do different interesting things.

Yes.

Something like "name tbd - All potions and liquids heal/repair for 50% more" which also hurts things. That might be nice. You know, like maybe:

name tbd - Hurt things for +1/2/3 W in a nice arc around you. Also, get +50 untyped Healing Amp for 2 minutes. Cooldown 2 minutes.

Maybe call it "Blood Drinker", Or "Fighters Don't Suck [Blood], They Just Suck"

But the 'fix' is in, so long live the 'fix.'

[Kompera_Oberon]

Usually the FIRST POTION is the one I NEED THE MOST!!

Seriously, come on man.

Seriously, come on man. Please stop talking about healing potions as though they matter.

No one cares if the ability is applied to the first useless potion or only to only the following useless potions. No. One. Cares.

Talk about things that matter. Hamp for Fighters is nice, but only if it actually applies. Fighters need DPS and self-healing or they will be ignored in favor of classes which do have DPS and self-healing.

[Elfishski]

Seriously, come on man. Please stop talking about healing potions as though they matter.

No one cares if the ability is applied to the first useless potion or only to only the following useless potions. No. One. Cares.

Talk about things that matter. Hamp for Fighters is nice, but only if it actually applies. Fighters need DPS and self-healing or they will be ignored in favor of classes which do have DPS and self-healing.

CSW potions will get you through heroics and this ability would be useful there, just for the convenience of time saved in between fights [assuming you solo, in a group everything is dead before it has a chance to hit any characters].

If you're wanting to tank things in difficult endgame content, drinking whatever potions so the healer can keep you alive a lot more easily will be a worthwhile investment in this enhancement.

50 heal amp is a noticeable amount. It's definitely worth it in a couple of circumstances, but tricky and fidgety to use effectively without it being a net loss in other content, which makes it probably a GOOD AND WELL BALANCED addition to fighters. You don't have to take it if you don't want it, just like you don't take the +1 to skills enhancement at tier 1. Some people will value this enhancement and that makes it a good addition, and at least it's unique unlike MOARR CRIT PROFILE.

[CeltEireson]

Will look into swapping the cooldown type as well.

Given the new enhancement based around healing potions could we possibly have critical heal potions available either on standard vendors or as available on a patron reward vendor? Not that itll be sufficient in epics but would still be useful, with the possibility of them dropping in higher level quests even higher caster level versions. Not likely to happen as you sell em in the store but cure critical potions are fairly standard in D&D.

And wouldn't mind a similar enhancement for fleshie wizards - tied in to wand and scroll mastery, e.g. your wand and scroll mastery now extends to cure potions.

[Loromir]

Seriously, come on man. Please stop talking about healing potions as though they matter.

No one cares if the ability is applied to the first useless potion or only to only the following useless potions. No. One. Cares.




I care....and any fighter out there who has no other options out there to be healed care.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I care....and any fighter out there who has no other options out there to be healed care.

if there are fighters who have no other options to heal themselves besides pots, be they csw or l/sf, then they should not be playing fighter in the first place, unless they are playing in a group setting, in which case this enhancement becomes irrelevant again.

if you have a cleric stapled to your butt, you dont need this extra hamp, certainly not at the cost of dps and sanity.

[Renatochewie]

As far as I've seen this pass will just add more bugs, no whirlwind fix, it is (was) a classical feat for fighters, why can't they make it work properly for weapons? When will anything work with unarmed? not even going to comment on animal form.

[Robbenklopper]

It´s totally ok that fighters CAN´T heal themselves - they´re fighters! Or tell me how good are they at casting spells, should they also be able to throw fireballs? How good are clerics at fighting? If you wanna heal yourself, Play a class that has self-healting abilities. or go multiclass. And I do Play a pure fighter. Ofc i would be dead like fried chicken in EE without Cocoon or Sacred Ground if going solo. This is DDO. Without it, i had to be always in a Party. Like good P&P was.

Healing atm is totally fine. Boost heal amp, have your twists, get friends and pots. I don´t wanna read about full-offense-no-defense builds crying for nerfs in EE/LE, just do propper builds and know your class.

[Silverleafeon]

Pre U31, was pure fighter defender, now kensei as main tree with vanguard as side tree.

Dramatic increase of DPS, with a drop of AC from 250 to 200, which still fairs well overall.

I like the kensei changes, should make fighter more popular.

Not going to debate the math vs. ranger/bard/pally, just please that between new equip/legendary feats/new tree changes, the fighter experience is much nicer than several updates ago.

Thanks, and thanks for monitoring future adjustments.

[YUGWEN]

Here's my input to fit with both your stated goal, and my personal preference of having things make logical sense role play too - For an upgrade to your "NOTE: We expect to add two additional enhancement options in the fourth tier of Kensei soon." I think it would be cool to have a (30?) time limited DR for 1/1/1 based on the weapon class of the Kensei in this tier something like 10/20/30 v slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning. Some story text explanation like "You have become so familiar with your chosen weapon that you have learned how to deflect and avoid the worst of the damage." It could just as easily be a 1/1/1 and 5/10/15 (2/2/2 10/20/30) with the same type restriction and be permanent depending on how powerful you wanted it to be. I found my first life fighters that faced limited challenges in older content, were one hit wonders in the new content with the swarms of AOE spam casting from the mobs of monsters. Some sort of increased energy DR, avoidance or deflection would be nice. Maybe some kind of "hunker down" or "learn to turtle" that could be an intimidate + DR/damage avoidance while blocking with a short time duration 6/8/10 (3/6/9?) DR 45/50/60 + 10/20/30% chance to avoid damage or ?? just something to bring back more of the tank power so fighters can be at the front with DPS or DR/AC focus and be more strategic doing it than Barbs. I don't just want to see mechanics/numbers changes for functionality, I want to see these changes also bring flavor and strategic changes to the way the class is played in a given build vs cloning the play style/flavor of any other melee Barb, Monk, Tempest, etc.

[QUOTE=Severlin;5812598]Greetings,

We are looking to improve the Fighter to make it more competitive with other classes. We have already begun the process by allowing Fighters to take feats to add lots of Tactical bonuses and extra passive mitigation. We want to further boost the class with enhancement trees changes.

We are currently looking at tweaks to Stalwart Defender and some solid Kensai changes.

(I just wanted to say that these changes will likely be tweaked further as we do more DPS testing as we implement the changes and incorporate player feedback.)

(We are discussing the possibility of another enhancement in this tier that we are not ready to reveal.)

[Silverleafeon]

Ty for the extra +20 melee power with one cut.

[Elfishski]

I don't just want to see mechanics/numbers changes for functionality, I want to see these changes also bring flavor and strategic changes to the way the class is played in a given build vs cloning the play style/flavor of any other melee Barb, Monk, Tempest, etc.

...immediately followed by (with no hint of intended irony)...


Ty for the extra +20 melee power with one cut.

Better than cloning flavor, just remove it entirely! Every class the same extra protein gruel.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

The fact you have to drink not one, BUT TWO potions to get a healing benefit is ludicrous.
The first pot is THE ONE YOU NEED THE MOST!


Just increase how much fighters get from drinking a pot. Something like "+4 healing amp per fighter level you have when drinking a pot" or something, so it helps PURE FIGHTERS MORE than those with just a splash.

Come on guys, every **** class has self healing options except for fighters. And then you give us this?

[Qhualor]

The fact you have to drink not one, BUT TWO potions to get a healing benefit is ludicrous.
The first pot is THE ONE YOU NEED THE MOST!


Just increase how much fighters get from drinking a pot. Something like "+4 healing amp per fighter level you have when drinking a pot" or something, so it helps PURE FIGHTERS MORE than those with just a splash.

Come on guys, every **** class has self healing options except for fighters. And then you give us this?

While I agree with your initial complaint, I don't agree that fighters don't have self healing. As a matter of fact, my pure dwarf Vanguard with 0 points in Kensei and just ship buffs and 3x pally past lives was complimented on with having really good heal amp last night. With just 511 sp, he can survive on Cocoon and heal scrolls fine. Same goes for my Kensei.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

While I agree with your initial complaint, I don't agree that fighters don't have self healing. As a matter of fact, my pure dwarf Vanguard with 0 points in Kensei and just ship buffs and 3x pally past lives was complimented on with having really good heal amp last night. With just 511 sp, he can survive on Cocoon and heal scrolls fine. Same goes for my Kensei.

A pure fighter doesn't have 511 sp for the most part.

And instead of jumping through hoops to get spell points on a fighter, maybe we should have other options.

Blue bar should not equal the only way.

[Qhualor]

A pure fighter doesn't have 511 sp for the most part.

And instead of jumping through hoops to get spell points on a fighter, maybe we should have other options.

Blue bar should not equal the only way.

Mine does and it's not that hard.

I do agree that it doesn't make sense a fighter has a blue bar for better self healing than using pots, but it's a matter of convincing this to the devs and the players who voiced over the years pushing for a BYOH game. Until then, options are there. There isn't just one option for a fighter. Rogues didn't get any self healing in their trees too, btw.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Mine does and it's not that hard.

I do agree that it doesn't make sense a fighter has a blue bar for better self healing than using pots, but it's a matter of convincing this to the devs and the players who voiced over the years pushing for a BYOH game. Until then, options are there. There isn't just one option for a fighter. Rogues didn't get any self healing in their trees too, btw.

I don't care if it's hard to get 511 spell points.
A PURE FIGHTER SHOULD NOT NEED SPELL POINTS TO SURVIVE. AT ALL. EVER.

There is a perfectly viable NON SPELL POINT option, and that is to give a healing amp bump for every level of fighter you have when you drink a pot!

They ALMOST got it right. But not quite. Not a 2nd potion, not a 30 second boost, just a +x per fighter level to healing amp when drinking pots.

They swung, they missed.

[Hobgoblin]

I don't care if it's hard to get 511 spell points.
A PURE FIGHTER SHOULD NOT NEED SPELL POINTS TO SURVIVE. AT ALL. EVER.

There is a perfectly viable NON SPELL POINT option, and that is to give a healing amp bump for every level of fighter you have when you drink a pot!

They ALMOST got it right. But not quite. Not a 2nd potion, not a 30 second boost, just a +x per fighter level to healing amp when drinking pots.

They swung, they missed.

going with that idea - what do you think is good?

i think 1% per fighter is too low, maybe 3?

off the top of my head even 3% wouldn't make a big difference on pots, but would on heal scrolls etc.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

going with that idea - what do you think is good?

i think 1% per fighter is too low, maybe 3?

off the top of my head even 3% wouldn't make a big difference on pots, but would on heal scrolls etc.

3 might be ok since it scales with level. It would be something that could be tweaked as they go. I didn't envision it WORKING on heal scrolls though just pots.

I think most fighters have a good HA item (or should!) to begin with, so adding some ot that would be a nice boon.But having a time limit and it be on a SECOND pot is just very restrictive.

And it's mostly to help fighters, or builds with a deep fighter splash, which is why I was thinking +x per fighter level.

[Hobgoblin]

3 might be ok since it scales with level. It would be something that could be tweaked as they go. I didn't envision it WORKING on heal scrolls though just pots.

I think most fighters have a good HA item (or should!) to begin with, so adding some ot that would be a nice boon.But having a time limit and it be on a SECOND pot is just very restrictive.

i think i remember from a while back eladrin saying something along the lines of that the tech was not available to differentiate between sources - ie not seeing a differance from a potion or a spell. i might be mistaken though

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

i think i remember from a while back eladrin saying something along the lines of that the tech was not available to differentiate between sources - ie not seeing a differance from a potion or a spell. i might be mistaken though

Yeah I was wondering if that was the case.

[Eryhn]

I don't care if it's hard to get 511 spell points.
A PURE FIGHTER SHOULD NOT NEED SPELL POINTS TO SURVIVE. AT ALL. EVER.

There is a perfectly viable NON SPELL POINT option, and that is to give a healing amp bump for every level of fighter you have when you drink a pot!

They ALMOST got it right. But not quite. Not a 2nd potion, not a 30 second boost, just a +x per fighter level to healing amp when drinking pots.

They swung, they missed.

mhm. NO?!

I dont want no blue bar on my fighter just cause some lore ****. everybody gets some SP in epics from destinies, and some from items. So why shouldnt I use it with cocoon? Everybody cocoon heals, so why shouldnt fighters

Atm, chugging a pot BEFORE the fight gives me 30 sec of where my heal of whatever kind gains benefits. When I gotta deal with tough stuff that usually means I get one improved cocoon after the first few mobs are down while I move to the next batch. That's viable - not elegant but viable. If I chug one before dropping consecration it means i likely wont have to worry about healing at all during consec, even on tough mobs, thats GOOD. I dont want it changed to NOT having that and breaking up my fighting animation MID fight for a csw pot at lvl 30, or incur silver flame pot penalties on a build that doesnt rly need to deal with them unless I absolutely want a pot option.

If anything, if this should get a buff, extend the duration to 40 or 45 seconds. or give a duration stack if you chugg 2 pots in a row ...

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Might be nice also to have some way to allow fighters to NOT get the negative effects of a silver flame healing pot.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

This entire thread comes down to this - we now know that there are severe limitations as to what the Developers can actually do to tweak the existing Enhancement Trees we have in the current game. Many of us chimed in here that Tactics improvements were ways to help preclude the need for self-healing, so the character does not get hit by an opponent. Sev proceeded to explain some complications with changes to such. The self-healing crowd chimed in to make Fighter yet another self-healer, and then suddenly a new change was implemented (because apparently that was within the realm of Dev possibilities).

It seems we're now facing game changes that devolve to the Hard Right vs the Easy Wrong. Seems we'll keep getting the "best of what can be changed" instead of changing what should be changed. Is this truly because the code can't be worked, or because of manpower available at Turbine, or...? Do we really know or will be told such truth or just hearing Dev explanations that are the most convenient at the time?

Frankly, many of us are still disappointed with Fighter/Kensei, where it's at right now. As I stated earlier, perhaps it's time to explore options to simply create entirely new trees as additional options rather than solely focus on editing current trees. Regardless, the Fighter class is so underwhelming, in my guild of 725+ guild members, not a single member went and made a new Fighter/Kensei, nor have any that TR'd gone Fighter/Kensei as their "next class" to try out - Not even to splash.

I realize that some of you disagree with the specific argument that I made to not bring in self-healing to Fighter, but even those of you who now have a Healing Amp addition to Kensei, can you say that you relish this change? (not much applause so far from what I am reading) I hope you see my point, that it's not just the healing vs tactics argument here, it's that we are facing severe limitations over and over as to what can be changed, and it makes me wonder if changing the current trees is even a worthwhile expenditure of limited manhours at Turbine (compared to other things that could be accomplished).

[HaltirithII]

Agreed!


Frenzied Berserker is a Pure Barbarian Tree - It wouldn't work with Fighter unless you also took Barb levels to get Rage in the first place!

Deepwood Stalker fits Rogue more than Fighter.


So:
S+B = Vanguard
SWF = Swashbuckler
TWF = Tempest

THF = Hero of the People {the Goliath - Just watch out for those Throwers} - Choose from Maul {Deep Gnomes must choose this}, Greatsword {Warforged must choose this}, Greataxe {Dwarves must choose this}, Greatclub or Falchion.
Special Bonuses on top of the standard = Natural Armour and PRR Bonuses irrespective of Armour, Resistance Bonuses, If naked {not even an Outfit or Robe} gain extra bonuses incl. base 100% Fortification. {Warforged/Bladeforged not applicable for this bonus}.

Archer = Bowman - Choose from Shortbow or Light X-Bow if Halfling or Gnome, Shortbow or Heavy X-Bow if Dwarf, Longbow or Heavy X-Bow all other other races {save the repeaters/Gt X-Bows for Mechanics and Artis}.
Special Bonuses on top of the standard = Doubleshot Aura {Any player in Aura Proximity gains +5, 10, 15, 20, 25 Doubleshot with Shortbows/Longbows/Light X-Bows/Hvy X-Bows} depending on level of Bowman, Stacks up to 3 times.}

Throwers = Athlete - Choose from Dart, Throwing Hammer, Throwing Dagger or Throwing Axe {save Shurikens for Drow and Monks}.
Special Bonuses on top of the standard = T3 +1/2/3 Wpn Dmg with Chosen Throwing Weapon, T5 +1/2/3 Wpn Dmg and Crit Dmg with Chosen Throwing Weapon.

Again, I have to disagree; If you want a Tempest build... then build a Ranger....if you want an Archer... then Build an Arcane Archer, or Deepwood Stalker. The Fighter is it's own class not an abrogation (sp?), or an amalgamation of the other classes. Want to make it "better" or "more equal" Then improve it's own DPS and skill sets, {such as Vanguard}.
2nd; A fighter is not a healer, {with the noted exceptions of Paladin and Favored Soul} ...that's why they make Clerics! It's also why they make HEALING POTIONS !!!If you are going to make every class equally capable in every area, then why have separate classes at all ??? Just sayin'.

[HaltirithII]

It´s totally ok that fighters CAN´T heal themselves - they´re fighters! Or tell me how good are they at casting spells, should they also be able to throw fireballs? How good are clerics at fighting? If you wanna heal yourself, Play a class that has self-healting abilities. or go multiclass. And I do Play a pure fighter. Ofc i would be dead like fried chicken in EE without Cocoon or Sacred Ground if going solo. This is DDO. Without it, i had to be always in a Party. Like good P&P was.

Healing atm is totally fine. Boost heal amp, have your twists, get friends and pots. I don´t wanna read about full-offense-no-defense builds crying for nerfs in EE/LE, just do propper builds and know your class.

Exactly!!! Much less windy way of saying it than mine.

[HaltirithII]

Disagree with this small portion but it gives an opportunity to make a point. A Fighter should be as good or better than every other Class when it comes to them being proficient and capable when wearing their Armor, and especially Heavy Armor. A Fighter should be capable of doing things in Heavy Armor that no other Class can.

So another macro suggestion here:

Put a significant Armor related change and/or boost into the Level 20 capstone at minimum, or scale up a progressive boost that culminates at the capstone but forces time/levels to be spent in the Fighter class to achieve it.

Now, see... This is a great suggestion! A Fighter is THE melee Class... always was. Want to improve it.... do it within the Class's own skill sets. "... capable of doing things in heavier armor that no other Class can." Brilliant !!! He gets the point. A fighter is a fighter... not a caster, not a healer, not a Ranger, etc... it's THE melee class. Any improvements should be as such.

[ValariusK]

It displays on the item but it doesn't actually work. For instance, I might hit for 70 noncrit and then crit for 160 or 170, which is NOT a 3x crit (variance on shuriken damage is very small).
Has anyone tested other weapons? Did Turbine break this one when they fixed it to be a competence bonus?