Three Way Bard

[LookMyName]

Sup guys new (kinda) player here and i tried to create one Swash, one Spellsinger and on Warchanter, unfortunately i don't have the time to play them all. =/

So what i'm trying to do now is a pure class (till it get too hard) who can do all the three playstyles.

Example.... I'm trying to create a Bard who:


Can buff itself and companions for battle like a Warchanter.
Can use enchantments spells for good CC like Spellsinger.
Can fight like a Swashbuckler.




The best class for the feat starved Bard probably would be Human. (28pt)

I'm trying to follow the basic Bard Abilities (10/10/14/10/8/18), but feel free to change that.

Jumping to the feats, the feats that i come up that can help are these:

Precision (Requisited for Enchatment: Thread the Needle)
Weapon Finesse
Single Weapon Fighting Line
Spell Focus: Enchantment Line
Shield Mastery Line
Dodge>Mobiliity>Spring Attack
Force of Personality
Extend Spell


Maybe something like this: (Not in order)


Dodge
Mobility
Shield Mastery
Single Weapon Fighting (Requisite for Different Tack enchantment)
Weapon Finesse (Will need some Dex for that)
Precision
Spell Focus: Enchantment
Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment/Extend




Did not focus on dps, does not fit this build from what i see, focused on holding my own problems and being able to support.

Does not need to be optimal, it's impossible without focusing on a specific role, but i want it to be the best Bard experience possible.

Thanks in advance.

[unbongwah]

To be honest, I think you're trying too hard to reinvent the wheel and spreading yourself too thin. Just take the Count of MC (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler) and maybe tweak the Enhancements a bit.

[LookMyName]

To be honest, I think you're trying too hard to reinvent the wheel and spreading yourself too thin. Just take the Count of MC (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler) and maybe tweak the Enhancements a bit.

Looks like an excellet build.

From the idea of the build itself is it possible to do the job of Warchanter and Spellsinger even if all my feats are focused on Swashbuckling just like the MC?

What you saying is true... i really trying to twist the game to fit a playstyle that probably don't exist... but i can't stop, it's the way i wanna play, even if handicapped.

[unbongwah]

What do you want to be able to do that the Count doesn't already do? Perhaps more to the point, what are you willing to give up?

[UurlockYgmeov]

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful Song
That started from this tropic port
Aboard this tiny voice.

The Alto was a mighty singing man,
The Tennor brave and sure.
Five spectators set down that day
For a three hour tune, a three hour tune.

The melisma started getting rough,
The tiny song was tossed,
If not for the courage of the fearless choir
The ballad would be lost, the ballad would be lost.

The tune set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert ditty
With Gilligan
The Skipper too,
The Platinumnaire and his wife,
The Acting Bard
The Artificer and Mary Gnome,
Here on the Three Way Bard!

[LookMyName]

What do you want to be able to do that the Count doesn't already do?

Well... can't find anything... Seems like a build you can play around with enchantments to a extent.

Well... that's it then, thanks Unbon really appreciate your help dude.

[LookMyName]

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful Song
That started from this tropic port
Aboard this tiny voice.

The Alto was a mighty singing man,
The Tennor brave and sure.
Five spectators set down that day
For a three hour tune, a three hour tune.

The melisma started getting rough,
The tiny ship was tossed,
If not for the courage of the fearless crew
The minnow would be lost, the ballad would be lost.

The tune set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert ditty
With Gilligan
The Skipper too,
The Platinumnaire and his wife,
The Acting bard
The artificer and Mary Ann,
Here on the Three Way Bard!

Awesome :D

[UurlockYgmeov]

Awesome :D

*chuckle* Maybe Uurlock has finally lost the remainder of his gord / marbles? :eek: :P

adjusted the original slightly to fix some lyrics that didn't quite fit.

[Jiirix]

Best three-way-bard I can think of would be a 2figther/18bard purple dragon knight using CHA for to hit and damage. Warchanter + Spellsinger THF with a greatsword.

[unbongwah]

Best three-way-bard I can think of would be a 2figther/18bard purple dragon knight using CHA for to hit and damage. Warchanter + Spellsinger THF with a greatsword.
I've made THF PDK WC builds (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446859-The-Icebreaker-A-Freezing-Warchanter-Bard?p=5722514&viewfull=1#post5722514) before, but OP lists "fights like a Swashbuckler" as one of their requirements, which I'm inferring means they want SWF.

[CThruTheEgo]

Looks like an excellet build.

From the idea of the build itself is it possible to do the job of Warchanter and Spellsinger even if all my feats are focused on Swashbuckling just like the MC?

What you saying is true... i really trying to twist the game to fit a playstyle that probably don't exist... but i can't stop, it's the way i wanna play, even if handicapped.

Caveat: these are very broad generalizations but: swashbuckler is the melee dps tree; warchanter is the party buff tree; spellsinger is the CC/spell dps tree (although the spell dps is fairly weak in comparison to other casters, so it's really more for the CC). If you spread yourself too thin between all three trees, then you won't be very good at any of it. But any bard can be built to do all three to some degree. Bards are very versatile because they have inherent party support and CC built into the class, so it's very easy to add other capabilities into the mix such as melee, ranged, party healing, etc. So the question becomes what else do you want to do and how do you want to prioritize your capabilities?

The Count is a very well rounded bard. My own personal playstyle emphasizes melee dps, so I took swashbuckler as my primary tree. I want more CC options than just fascinate, so I took spellsinger secondary for more DCs. Not all feats are melee focused. I also take spell focus enchantment. That is to be able to twist magister's enchantment specialist. CC spells target enemy will saves, which are generally the lowest save on most enemies. So you don't need to go all out and take greater/epic spell focus. So the build has a variety of CC options, along with the inherent party support that comes with any bard, as well as solid melee dps. The build even has some decent group healing potential through sacred ground (not that it's really needed the vast majority of the time).

I have not played the Count for a few updates simply because I have been focused on other characters, so I don't honestly know how the CC potential holds up in new content. I have heard that spell penetration requirements are high. I dumped spell pen, so if that is the case, then I may switch to warchanter as my secondary tree if I start playing the character again anytime soon. Bards still have a good CC option through fascinate, so the ability to CC would not be lost by dropping spellsinger, but the options for CC would be more limited.

There are a number of bard builds in these forums which emphasize different trees and different capabilities. Most of them can do a little bit of everything simply because that is the nature of bards. But all of them will emphasize certain capabilities over others. Have a look at them and see if any of them fit the playstyle you are looking for. Here is some more specific feedback on a few things you listed in the OP.


Weapon Finesse

Weapon finesse is not needed. If I remember correctly, I originally started with a 12 str (the build has gone through a few changes over time). I used str for to hit and ran every quest from 1 to cap on an elite streak and never had a problem killing things. If I was ever getting glancing blows, it wasn't enough to feel like it was hurting my ability to kill mobs/bosses quickly.


Dodge>Mobiliity>Spring Attack

These are not needed either. It is very easy for a swashbuckler to reach the dodge cap. I had 24% dodge at level 9, without any of these.


Force of Personality

I originally had force of personality on the Count. I ended up dropping it and didn't notice any difference. I wouldn't bother with this either.


Extend Spell

This is a personal preference. Extend is solely a convenience feat and is primarily used for displacement only. So the question becomes, is the convenience of having extended displacement worth the sacrifice of whatever potential capability you give up to take it? You'll notice in the feat list in the Count, I took extend at level 6 and swapped it out for spell focus enchantment at level 20 so I could twist magister's enchantment specialist. The extra DCs were not needed until epics, so I preferred the convenience of extended displacement until then.

[LookMyName]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.28.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Neutral Good Human Male
(20 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 784
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 21
Will: 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Strength 8 8 8
Dexterity 14 14 16
Constitution 14 14 15
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 25 30

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Balance 6 26 34
Bluff 4 10 18
Concentration 6 25 33
Diplomacy 4 10 20
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 10 18
Heal 1 10 18
Hide 2 3 11
Intimidate 4 10 18
Jump 3 22 30
Listen -1 -1 9
Move Silently 2 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 33 43
Repair -1 -1 7
Search -1 -1 7
Spellcraft -1 -1 7
Spot -1 -1 7
Swim -1 -1 7
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 33 43

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Single Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Single Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Single Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Arcane Sphere: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Confidence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Swashbuckling (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Uncanny Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Panache (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Roll with the Punches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Cutting Jibes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Fast Movement (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Action Boost: Doublestrike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Action Boost: Doublestrike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Action Boost: Doublestrike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Elegant Footwork (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Skirmisher (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Smooth Flourishes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Low Blow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Battering Barrage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Battering Barrage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Thread the Needle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Coupe De Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Exploit Weaknesses (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Ironskin Chant (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Suggestion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Suggestion (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)




Kent did this for me, what do you guys think? :D

Remember MC to an extent, dont?

I also, see a pattern here in the forum build sections, the builds are divided between, DPS (TWF,THF), Ranged, Casters (Healers, Instakillers) and Utility. With very little differences between those builds in their own segments (**** almost every build splashs monk).

Does this means that the majority of feats avaible are lackluster? I mean... who ever gets skill based focus unless it is FS.UMD?

Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus, Luck of Heroes they all seem like newbie traps...

I really wanna learn how to make decent builds...

[UurlockYgmeov]

I really wanna learn how to make decent builds...

only way is what you are doing along with much trial and error.

So research, ask, play, learn, adapt, play some more. Rinse Repeat :)

[unbongwah]

Level 28 Neutral Good Human Male
Historically, I prefer True Neutral for most of my builds for three reasons: it renders you immune to most alignment-based dmg (Unholy dmg starts to become common around lvl 12); you don't take a negative level penalty from evil-tainted gear like greensteel; and it allows the use of Stability items (although since Superior Stability caps out at +6, it's really only useful in heroic levels). The only downsides to TN are (A) you can't use alignment-restricted gear until your Use Magic Device (UMD) skill is high enough (fortunately, this is easy for a CHA-based bard) and (B) Divine Crusader's Blessed Blades has no effect. Overall I still feel the pros of TN outweigh the cons, at least for bards.

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
As stated, you don't need Finesse; move Precision to here, GSWF to lvl 15, and take Quicken or some other feat at lvl 18.

Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
I also agree that you don't need this until epic levels to unlock the DC bonus in Magister. So I recommend either taking Extend and swapping it out later; or taking Quicken here and SF:Enchant at lvl 18.

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Personally I'd rather take Overwhelming Critical, as the Count does. The first Spell Focus feat provides +1 DC and opens the Magister bonus for another +3 for +4 DC total; each subsequent Spell Focus is only +1, so it provides less bang-for-the-buck. But if you're really looking to boost spellcasting, you're arguably better off investing in Great CHA, since that provides a boost to all DCs and DPS.

I haven't looked too closely at the new U29 epic / legendary feats (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467838-Update-29-Feats-Legendary-Feats), but I'm leaning towards Feywild (+4 Enchantment DCs, extra Sonic dmg to melee atks) or Arborea (+20 Melee Power). Though if I was role-playing Chaotic Neutral, I'd definitely take Limbo. :cool:

EDIT: I like having Empower Heal in epics because it boosts some of the ED healing abilities - Rejuvenation Cocoon, Renewal, Light the Dark - as well as Cure / Heal spells. Some people prefer Maximize for a bigger boost to their CCW and MCMW bard spells.