Would it be bad to go pure spellsinger?

[Zachski]

As a casting Bard, that is.

Also by the title, I mean "Pure Bard as a Spellsnger", not "All points in Spellsinger and nothing else." (I just realized after posting this that that could cause some confusion)

I know that, thanks to Swashbuckler, it's technically possible to go pure bard as a Warchanter with full Cha as you can very easily pick up "Different Tack" and, with the addition of some +Stun DC abilities, have passable DC on your special abilities. You'd just have to be SWFing it, which isn't a bad idea anyways.

However, with the Spellsinger changes, too, it seems like it should be possible to become go pure Spellsinger without too much trouble. They even added SLA nukes in so that you could use those to deal some damage and crowd control.

But what actually attracts me more about Spellsinger is its support abilities. Similiarly for Warchanter, since they have those new chants that completely outclass anything the Paladin aura has to offer.

...Ahem.

Anyways, yeah. It would be fun to go as a Spellsinger, using my magic and songs to keep the party going, while also throwing out Reverberate on bosses and such.

And then there's Heal at the capstone. I don't see myself getting any use out of Wail, though, except for maybe the negative levels?

[BoBoDaClown]

Yeah pure SS is effective. My build is as follows:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446484-Soza-CC-Heal-Nuke-Pure-Bard-Build


Good CC/Heals/Trash DPS


Wail isn't effective other than negs for EE, but is amusing to use on EH.

Using exalted angel with energy burst twist, plus sonic SLAs, ruin/hellball, (with a mass hold) allows some decent trash dps in addition to your goal of "to keep the party going".

[Zachski]

I wonder how I missed your build before.

Thanks XD That's really helpful.

I'll probably go Human with this instead of Drow, though. Mostly, because, um... *coughs*

...Despite all of my years of "owning" this game, I still haven't unlocked Drow on a single server.

[unbongwah]

I posted an outline for a pure human SS caster here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=5399794&viewfull=1#post5399794).

[FranOhmsford]

Not bad no!

But you will get a few people telling you you should be Swashbuckler!

[Zachski]

Not bad no!

But you will get a few people telling you you should be Swashbuckler!

I was kinda thinking about picking up some SWF feats and maybe getting some points in Swashbuckler, actually.

Like, especially the part where an orb gives me an extra 40 sonic spellpower and I can swashbuckle while using it

So then I'd be running around with an orb in my left hand and a custom crafted rapier in my right hand (for the spellpower) and just stabbing people with sonic energy while blasting people with sonic energy.

Also, Shout? Shout. With Maximize and Empower. Makes me feel like a sonic god at the level I'm currently at.

I'm tempted to get the final Sonic SLA instead of Mass Hold, too. But that'll have to be much later.

[maddmatt70]

Yeah pure SS is effective. My build is as follows:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446484-Soza-CC-Heal-Nuke-Pure-Bard-Build


Good CC/Heals/Trash DPS


Wail isn't effective other than negs for EE, but is amusing to use on EH.

Using exalted angel with energy burst twist, plus sonic SLAs, ruin/hellball, (with a mass hold) allows some decent trash dps in addition to your goal of "to keep the party going".

What do you think about your build's surviveability on EE? That is my main concern with spellcasting bards.

[BoBoDaClown]

What do you think about your build's surviveability on EE? That is my main concern with spellcasting bards.

Keep in mind I returned to game relatively recently and haven't run EE dragons yet - have run all other content though.

I don't have an issue with dying too often; I tend to die when I make mistakes, so I guess a pure bard isn't very 'forgiving'? I think PRR and MRR from medium armour will help a little once those chnage go through and I tweak my gear a bit.

I do zero soloing; I'm guessing this would be a poor solo build.

[slarden]

I played pure Bard 20 spellsinger on Lamannia and it was very effective. I decided on live to splash in 2fvs and 2 rogue and I find it to be a significantly better build for me, although if save requirements go up I would consider switching to pure bard for the higher DC.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445520-Exalted-Bard

The link includes a link to Lamannia with my pure 20 bard caster which was very effective, but less survivable than my current build. I would probably do the enhancements for a pure 20 bard a little bit different than I did on Lamannia after extensive playing experience on live.

The 2 rogue is for evasion and makes a huge difference in EE. My reflex is around 70 and there are only a few quests/raids in the game where that isn't good enough for a no-fail save on EE with epic reflexes. Both U21 raids, Haunted Halls, Brothers of the Forge are about the only places I noticed my reflex save being insufficient. I can tank the stormreaver in EE FOT no problem.

The 2 favored soul is very helpful because I decided on light as my primary with sonic and fire as secondaries since the EA destiny worked so good for me. The sp regeneration is not as good as you would get with a divine or shiradi caster, but it is still significant especially with the light spells and lantern ring.

The biggest problem I have on EE is my 50 fort save. Depending on the party and quest it can result in multiple deaths. My worst case scenario is What Goes Up EE where sometimes I don't die, but once I died 6 times in there - 4 due to getting turned to stone by the end boss and twice due to sonic stuns. That is partially from going with only 12 con as a drow and partially because I invested more heavily in reflex save (1 twist and epic reflexes vs. no investment in fort save). The fort save issue is only a significant issue in WGU EE for me, although there are also a few quests I won't attempt to solo because of the fort save issue. In parties it is only a problem in WGU EE.

Good luck with your pure bard build. If you come up with any good ideas please share those - there aren't many of us that are trying spellsinger which is amazing to me because they are so good.

[Altrelo]

I played a SS to cap, he was my CC Wizard to cap so he has quite a few FvS and Wizard PL, as well as one Bard. Once you get Soundburst, it's rolfstomp. I ETR'ed him though because EE's where too easy. Your AoE's will do way more damage than a Sorc at lower levels. Getting Hold, Mass for GH is great, you will feel invincible. Then you will feel down that you can't CC in Orchard and some Sands. If you're Human, the 17-20 levels will be easier than my Halfling.

In Draconic I had a 70 Enchantment DC, sustainable with your own buffs and no yugo or DDO Store pots+ ship buffs, could get more but would gimp my damage. Could get more in Exalted but 70 enchantment is good enough for all but the highest Will save mobs, if you need a fort save stun, Soundburst from Exalted Angel is good if the quest has many high will save mobs.

Become *THE* zerger. You have a 20 second cooldown on Hold, Mass. You can't be a Wizard and throw Holds like dollars at beggars. Throw a discoball then throw the Hold. Make sure to aim at a mob in the middle or in the middle of it all. Mass Hold and discoball have a larger AoE circle than what it shows. An Energy Burst and Hellball that you double-proc, it's easy and you'll find the conditions if you yourself use it. You won't really run out of SP, unless it's a quest like PoP. I only have Maximize for Hellball and my SLA's, I didn't take Reverbrate since naughty AA will dispel it.

What Bards have over Wizard, what is their weakness, is they have only 6 spell levels. Your Otto's Resistable Dance should be able to dance most melees without having it Heightened, that's a mob incapacitated for 1 minute in exchange for 10 or 9 sp. I have Potency and would like general Spell Lore on my Thunder-Forged weapon, Hellball has many procs so I would lose more than what I'd gain from having +150 to my Draconic element or sonic. You might fail Spell-Pen checks on lower rolls as at most the only Spell-Pen feat you can take is the first one in place of a +1 Charisma.

You'll also have to heal on occasion as only 1% of Druids, Clerics and FvS are actually using healing spells. I recommend zerging so you save spell points. You will kill mobs better than the rest, in order to zerg I recommend taking at least some of Swashbuckler for the extra run speed. Do be ready for the compliments that people will give you, more so than a Swashbuckler. A CC caster that can heal will 95% of the time be welcomed more than Swashbuckler.

With Displacement, Quickend discoball and runspeed, you should be able to go without splashing. I didn't need it and you lose a good capstone.

Edit: Don't you dare call yourself a SS if you don't take Mass Hold. I didn't want to say anything in the forums because then my Bard will be too gimp. You do lose the insta-kills that a Wizard gets, but you will become a better utility caster and mob clearer.

If you are going to melee, you won't be able to take all the feats needed to make a good CC caster. I don't Swashbuckle and only have points in it for the extra Charisma and run speed.

[Nahiz]

Great advice in this thread. I´m starting this week a pure bard, 60% spellsinger 40% swashbuckler (action points distribution on enhancements). I don´t think it´s suitable for EE, but I love the idea of a pure class caster/melee mix (yeah, mostly a flavor idea, but a very viable one unless you play a lot of EE, which is not my case). I´m planning on going human for the extra feat (3 feats from single weapon, precision, imp. critical. pierce, maximize, empower, quicken for heroics; not sure for epics yet).

Of course I´ll be taking mass hold SLA! And as someone wrote above, wail should be fun on EH.

Only thing is i´m very used to characters with evasion, so that will be my biggest challenge. Once i get to lev 20 i´ll decide if i´m going fatsinger or exalted angel (maybe even divine crusader).

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

my spell singer played more like a sorc as i went evo focus, and oh mah gawd! it was FUN! level 20 now and since SS changes i kinda rocketed (then stopped playing her due to getting distracted by a different shiny build)

[Altrelo]

Great advice in this thread. I´m starting this week a pure bard, 60% spellsinger 40% swashbuckler (action points distribution on enhancements). I don´t think it´s suitable for EE, but I love the idea of a pure class caster/melee mix (yeah, mostly a flavor idea, but a very viable one unless you play a lot of EE, which is not my case). I´m planning on going human for the extra feat (3 feats from single weapon, precision, imp. critical. pierce, maximize, empower, quicken for heroics; not sure for epics yet).

Of course I´ll be taking mass hold SLA! And as someone wrote above, wail should be fun on EH.

Only thing is i´m very used to characters with evasion, so that will be my biggest challenge. Once i get to lev 20 i´ll decide if i´m going fatsinger or exalted angel (maybe even divine crusader).

Since you're going to get the SS capstone and cores, at least I think so with 60% of your EP in it, might want to take enchantment focus. You already have a +5 without the Capstone! If you use Charisma instead of Strength then your DC's should be pretty good to hold most things. Then just stab them with the pointy end~

[Nahiz]

Since you're going to get the SS capstone and cores, at least I think so with 60% of your EP in it, might want to take enchantment focus. You already have a +5 without the Capstone! If you use Charisma instead of Strength then your DC's should be pretty good to hold most things. Then just stab them with the pointy end~

I´m not sure about enchantment focus (the feat, right?), it´s just 1 DC... ¿or is there something else to it? And yes, I´m going for SS capstone (so that should compensate the lack of enchantment focus, right?) with Charisma for spells DC and weapon damage (Smooth Flourishes).

Good sonic SLAs, excellent cc, decent weapon damage (no exploit weaknesses nor coup de grace, though). It´s bard "jack of all trades" time!

I can always LR at level 20 if i decide to go all in with casting or melee...

[Altrelo]

I´m not sure about enchantment focus (the feat, right?), it´s just 1 DC... ¿or is there something else to it? And yes, I´m going for SS capstone (so that should compensate the lack of enchantment focus, right?) with Charisma for spells DC and weapon damage (Smooth Flourishes).

Good sonic SLAs, excellent cc, decent weapon damage (no exploit weaknesses nor coup de grace, though). It´s bard "jack of all trades" time!

I can always LR at level 20 if i decide to go all in with casting or melee...

I think my bias came out there a bit. Think of me as the priest of the CC and Healing church. I'll preach even after the walls come down. That said, you need one of the Spell Focus feats in order to get the +3 DC from Magister.

[Seikojin]

My last life was 20 bard; t5 spellsinger, splashing in swash for melee related things. It was very strong and definitely helped the groups.

[maddmatt70]

I played pure Bard 20 spellsinger on Lamannia and it was very effective. I decided on live to splash in 2fvs and 2 rogue and I find it to be a significantly better build for me, although if save requirements go up I would consider switching to pure bard for the higher DC.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445520-Exalted-Bard

The link includes a link to Lamannia with my pure 20 bard caster which was very effective, but less survivable than my current build. I would probably do the enhancements for a pure 20 bard a little bit different than I did on Lamannia after extensive playing experience on live.

The 2 rogue is for evasion and makes a huge difference in EE. My reflex is around 70 and there are only a few quests/raids in the game where that isn't good enough for a no-fail save on EE with epic reflexes. Both U21 raids, Haunted Halls, Brothers of the Forge are about the only places I noticed my reflex save being insufficient. I can tank the stormreaver in EE FOT no problem.

The 2 favored soul is very helpful because I decided on light as my primary with sonic and fire as secondaries since the EA destiny worked so good for me. The sp regeneration is not as good as you would get with a divine or shiradi caster, but it is still significant especially with the light spells and lantern ring.

The biggest problem I have on EE is my 50 fort save. Depending on the party and quest it can result in multiple deaths. My worst case scenario is What Goes Up EE where sometimes I don't die, but once I died 6 times in there - 4 due to getting turned to stone by the end boss and twice due to sonic stuns. That is partially from going with only 12 con as a drow and partially because I invested more heavily in reflex save (1 twist and epic reflexes vs. no investment in fort save). The fort save issue is only a significant issue in WGU EE for me, although there are also a few quests I won't attempt to solo because of the fort save issue. In parties it is only a problem in WGU EE.

Good luck with your pure bard build. If you come up with any good ideas please share those - there aren't many of us that are trying spellsinger which is amazing to me because they are so good.

You are probably right that a multi-class bard/rogue/Fvs is the way to go from an optimum standpoint. I was kinda hoping though for a strong pure bard dc oriented (with solid nuking capabilities) solution that was decent defensively. I thought about trying to play a pure bard in unyielding, but you lose enough offensively that you might as well go with the multi bard.

[slarden]

You are probably right that a multi-class bard/rogue/Fvs is the way to go from an optimum standpoint. I was kinda hoping though for a strong pure bard dc oriented (with solid nuking capabilities) solution that was decent defensively. I thought about trying to play a pure bard in unyielding, but you lose enough offensively that you might as well go with the multi bard.

Once the PRR/MRR model in Lamannia is finalized it might very well be possible. With Half Elf Paladin Dil, Draconic and heavy focus on saves for twists you can likely get very respectable saves. With displacement, ghostly, 18% dodge and 107 armor class I don't get hit much. With a build optimized for saves you should be able to get all saves in the 70s.

Going full bard in Draconic is an option. My twists in EA are energy burst, enchantment specialist, unearthly reactions and cocoon. If you instead went Draconic with sense weakness, perfection of body, unearthly reactions and cocoon on top of the dragonhide and draconic perception you get from Draconic you will have likely have a no fail save fortitude in most content (can't fail on 1 with either dragonhide or perfection of body), no fail reflex in most content (I would think low to mid 70s) and you would only fail a will save on a 1 which harper pin can bail you out of. Will save could still benefit from force of personality. The combination of Mass Hold, Draconic and Sense Weakness makes for brutal burst damage.

It all depends on how much mitigation you get from MRR to make up for the lack of evasion. I think it will be enough with epic reflexes and a good save so you are always taking less than half damage (half from making save and some percentage taken off of that from MRR), but people are complaining it's overpowered on Lamannia so we shall see where it ends up.