Pure Bard Spellsinger, questions.

[RoguemcStabby]

So, I recently TR'd one of my toons into a bard (1 bard pl, 1 wiz pl, 1 ranger pl) and I'm wondering what strategies I should consider given the recent boost to Spellsinger enhancements..

Is a Sonic DPS Spellsinger viable in epic? EE?
I don't solo past heroic, but run with guildies and in closed channels.

I'm not going to post all the stat allocations here, but I did max out CHA, put a fair amount of points into INT, CON and STR as well.

Feats I plan on taking as a human:

1- Quicken
1- Maximize
3 - ins. reflex
6 - PL wiz
9 - SF Evo
12 - Height
15 - SF Necro
18 - SF Necro 2
21 - ?
24 - ?
25 - ?
26 - ?
27 - ?
28 - ?

I can see that spell penn and evo DC's are going to possibly be an issue (and perhaps Enchant DC's as well).

Lack of evasion is going to suck, I think.

[mezzorco]

Lack of evasion is going to suck, I think.

Not so much.
You can dip into Warchanter tree for buff capability and medium armor proficiency.
With upcoming armor pass this will grant you a fair amount of PRR / MRR, that helps reducing incoming damage.
You can also wear a twilight large shield to double MRR value, I didn't do maths but I think this will grant you a fair amount of protection from spells.

[cru121]

without having played such build, I'd start with these feats to have some fun with SLAs asap:

1 maximize, empower
3 PL Wiz
6 SF Evo
9 Heighten

SF:Necro is rather unorthodox idea, and probably a bad one. I would not take Insightful Reflexes (because I'd start with 18 CON and CHA and the difference between dex and int would be tiny)

I'd rather focus on Enchantment, perhaps picking up some Spell Penetration. Also, Empower Healing.

[slarden]

I built a pure spellsinger bard 20 on Lamannia and opted for a 16 Bard / 2 fvs /2 rogue on live, although there are plenty of good reasons to play a pure bard. The devs made the level 18 and capstone compelling enough:

Here is my build if you are interested including a link to the pure 20 bard build from Lamannia. It's doing really well in EE, but due mostly to a low fort save can't solo some EEs. Still in a party it's no problem.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445520-Exalted-Bard

I have a 68 enchantment dc and have a no-fail enchantment against almost all mobs with a few exceptions:
1) immune mobs obviously
2) orc clerics/priests in stormhorns almost always make the save - so I am not even close there
3) my spell pen is insufficient against drow, but the content is so easy it doesn't matter
4) I am not no-fail against shadar-kai - not sure the reason yet

My basic conclusion: 68 is kind of a sweet spot for enchantment DC. It's not worth going higher unless no sacrifice is required. I suspect spell resistance will be an issue for you, but only in some content and straight dps should work there.

What I concluded is that the charisma-based ED SLAs are really better than the sonic spells/slas (Exalted Angel and Draconic). The cooldown is quick enough that I can use those as my main burst dps and supplement it with bard spells.

The main issue with sonic is that many require a fort save and in general fort saves are much higher. On the other hand they aren't evadable which can be useful.

I have no idea how the MRR changes to armor will impact things, but at the moment I was burning through alot more healing spells without evasion than I do now. It really negated the benefit of the auto-grant heal spell because I had to use it so much vs. now I rarely need to use more than cocoon and my mass cure moderate sla from exalted angel.

However my experience was soloing where I had all the aggro. It's likely to be less of an issue in a party.

Spellsingers have been over-shadowed by how easy it is to build an effective swashbuckler, but they are really quite awesome.

I am not sure about Necro. You can definitely get a very high necro dc, but what I find is that cc: is more party friendly and between mass hold and dancing sphere you are always useful where is with Necro you are making a big investment for basically one spell that won't work well in some content.

Mass Hold > Wail in my opinion especially when combined with great burst dps like energy burst. Plus it gives a damage boost to the entire party.

[RoguemcStabby]

Mass Hold > Wail in my opinion especially when combined with great burst dps like energy burst. Plus it gives a damage boost to the entire party.

Well, that's partly at the heart of what I was thinking, I can def. see mass hold + energy burst, and i'm on the fence with Draconic vs. EA....

What mass hold tells me though, is that horn of thunder isn't viable? Or that shout/greater shout is good enough?


Not so much.
You can dip into Warchanter tree for buff capability and medium armor proficiency.
With upcoming armor pass this will grant you a fair amount of PRR / MRR, that helps reducing incoming damage.
You can also wear a twilight large shield to double MRR value, I didn't do maths but I think this will grant you a fair amount of protection from spells.

That's not happening anytime soon, correct?

[slarden]

Well, that's partly at the heart of what I was thinking, I can def. see mass hold + energy burst, and i'm on the fence with Draconic vs. EA....

What mass hold tells me though, is that horn of thunder isn't viable? Or that shout/greater shout is good enough?



Horn of Thunder is better than greater shout and uses a reflex rather than fort save. It's also only 30 spell points vs. greater shout that is like 74 sp with metamagic.

I generally feel dps is and damage output is not a problem at all for the build so adding one more dps spell doesn't add much - even though it's a really good spell, but having mass hold gives the build so much more utility because the cc mitigates damage to the party while increasing damage to the held mobs. However I may try using just dancing sphere and horn of thunder the next time I etr and see how it works.

Going with a max evocation build in draconic is also really good and with a high evocation dc the sonic stuns are very effective. My main reason for EA was +3 to all DCs (enchant + evoc), the larger spellpoint pool and divine wrath which is great dps, but also acts as a mass heal. That plus cocoon and maximized/empowered mass cure moderate SLA makes me an effective healer in raids. However, with a straight draconic + sonic build it is does make gearing up easier.

[RoguemcStabby]

Horn of Thunder is better than greater shout and uses a reflex rather than fort save. It's also only 30 spell points vs. greater shout that is like 74 sp with metamagic.

I generally feel dps is and damage output is not a problem at all for the build so adding one more dps spell doesn't add much - even though it's a really good spell, but having mass hold gives the build so much more utility because the cc mitigates damage to the party while increasing damage to the held mobs. However I may try using just dancing sphere and horn of thunder the next time I etr and see how it works.

Going with a max evocation build in draconic is also really good and with a high evocation dc the sonic stuns are very effective. My main reason for EA was +3 to all DCs (enchant + evoc), the larger spellpoint pool and divine wrath which is great dps, but also acts as a mass heal. That plus cocoon and maximized/empowered mass cure moderate SLA makes me an effective healer in raids. However, with a straight draconic + sonic build it is does make gearing up easier.

So going with an Enchant/EVo build, how do feat choices look from lvl 21-28? Assuming I will be in EA for the most part.

[slarden]

So going with an Enchant/EVo build, how do feat choices look from lvl 21-28? Assuming I will be in EA for the most part.

HEROIC FEATS
Maximize
Empower
Completionist
Spell Focus Enchant
Quicken
Empower Healing
Force of Personality

EPIC FEATS
Heighten
Inspire Excellence
Lasting Inspiration
Epic Reflexes
Spell Power: Light

This is what I took for feats. I only took one spell focus enchant feat to twist in the +3 enchantment DC from magister. Completionist and Inspire Excellence basically give me +4 to all stats which I thought was better than a simple DC boost. I opted for Epic Reflexes @ 28 since I don't have improved evasion and my reflex save of 68 is good enough for a no-fail save in all but a few EE quests and the newest 2 raids. The level 28 feat I may change when I etr, but I haven't decided what to yet. Past Life Wizard would be a good alternative to completionist. The other option is to take toughness instead of completionist and epic toughness instead of epic reflexes.

[RoguemcStabby]

HEROIC FEATS
Maximize
Empower
Completionist
Spell Focus Enchant
Quicken
Empower Healing
Force of Personality

EPIC FEATS
Heighten
Inspire Excellence
Lasting Inspiration
Epic Reflexes
Spell Power: Light

This is what I took for feats. I only took one spell focus enchant feat to twist in the +3 enchantment DC from magister. Completionist and Inspire Excellence basically give me +4 to all stats which I thought was better than a simple DC boost. I opted for Epic Reflexes @ 28 since I don't have improved evasion and my reflex save of 68 is good enough for a no-fail save in all but a few EE quests and the newest 2 raids. The level 28 feat I may change when I etr, but I haven't decided what to yet. Past Life Wizard would be a good alternative to completionist. The other option is to take toughness instead of completionist and epic toughness instead of epic reflexes.

Really surprised about the empower healing... with the fact that healing amp & + devotion items being easy to come by, I would think it unnecessary.

[slarden]

Really surprised about the empower healing... with the fact that healing amp & + devotion items being easy to come by, I would think it unnecessary.

Yeah empower healing and light spellpower are probably the two most likely feats in my list to change.

As a drow I don't get any racial healing amp. I am using the Dumathoin's Bracers from the shadow dragon raid and the gauntlets of immortality from FOT and I don't room for healing amp in my shield spot or ring either.

For now I am sticking with empower healing, but I might switch it out for something else in a future etr.