Assistance my dear Watson.

[Darkstar1996]

Hi,

Ive been looking around for what class to make, im confused and down to a couple. A WF melee Radiant Servant, A Human Battle Bard, and A pure WF Arti. Just plain old straight builds just trying for the melee/caster kind of roll where im in armor, have a big ass axe, and self cast buffs and throw some AoE damage spells (or CC). And now that i might get Menace which comes with druid i will be adding that to list to, read nothing on them but heard they are a good melee/caster mix. However i came back to the Tukaw and Juggernaut builds, are they still good and functional now with U19? Please if anyone can help me.

-As a melee cleric i will have a low wisdom, thats gunna push my spell damage down right?
-If im bard, will Greater Shout or Otto's dance spells even land?
-Are there such thing as THF Arti's?
-Druids Good spell/melee? (Flame Blade version i think were i have flame blades and wall of fire?)
-Will Tukaw, or Juggernaut work as 1st life 28pt?
-Are expansions worth buying?

What i do have is 28pt, Arti, Monk, Drow, WF thats about it. Perfer to stay away from Tomes unless u can get on quests?

THANK YOU (Say all the **** you want, Im a noob and that guy who cant make a decison.)

[Havok.cry]

Whether or not the expansions are worth buying is something purely based on opinion. They have a lot of fairly easy epic xp and a few shiney items (less so now with the current random lootgen), however personally I hate almost everything set in the forgotten realms and would tell you that they suck and not to waste your money on them. Others would disagree with me and tell you they are worthwhile for whatever reason.

[Darkstar1996]

Whether or not the expansions are worth buying is something purely based on opinion. They have a lot of fairly easy epic xp and a few shiney items (less so now with the current random lootgen), however personally I hate almost everything set in the forgotten realms and would tell you that they suck and not to waste your money on them. Others would disagree with me and tell you they are worthwhile for whatever reason.

Even just for Epic Destinies? Cause i have Catacombs and Necro 1 for quests on original game, i think i like this game, just ive never experianced endgame, and i dont want to spend alot of money on something i wont use.

[Darkstar1996]

Anyone?

[unbongwah]

-As a melee cleric i will have a low wisdom, thats gunna push my spell damage down right?
Low WIS on a cleric or FvS will reduce your DCs, which reduces how often most of your DPS spells land, which reduces your caster DPS. You have some light-based spells with no saves (Nimbus / Searing Light & Divine Punishment); and Blade Barrier can still be useful against low-Reflex mobs if you're lucky.

-If im bard, will Greater Shout or Otto's dance spells even land?
If you're a pure CHA-based bard who invested in DCs & Spell Pen - probably yes; if you're a STR-based melee-focused bard - probably not.

-Are there such thing as THF Arti's?
Sure: the Juggernaut is functionally a THF Arty, even tho it doesn't take the feats. Or do you mean "1H+Runearm" build? Those are less common, but doable as well.

-Druids Good spell/melee? (Flame Blade version i think were i have flame blades and wall of fire?)
Yes, depending on how you build it. Make your questions more specific, I'll give more specific advice.

-Will Tukaw, or Juggernaut work as 1st life 28pt?
Not sure about Tukaw, but this is what a "low-rent" Juggie might look like:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 21 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Monk \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Artificer \ 1 Epic)
Hit Points: 265
Spell Points: 766
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 21)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 21)
Balance 2 12
Bluff -2 0
Concentration 7 29
Diplomacy -2 0
Disable Device 5 26
Haggle -2 0
Heal -2 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -2 0
Jump 3 6
Listen -2 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 15
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 3
Search 5 26
Spot -2 7
Swim 3 4
Tumble n/a 4
Use Magic Device 2 23

Level 1 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 7 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 12 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 19 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Mithral Body


Level 21 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical


Naturally, downgrading to 28 pts means making sacrifices; I decided to drop pally splash & dump CHA. I also gave up Prec Shot + IPS; in exchange, I picked up the THF chain. I backloaded the tomes as much as possible; that meant I could delay the rgr splash since you really only need those feats for Manyshot.

[mezzorco]

-As a melee cleric i will have a low wisdom, thats gunna push my spell damage down right?

Your DC won't be high enough, but some light spells don't have DC so it won't directly affect their damage.
With a low wis you will have few spellpoints though, so you're better saving them for heals/buffs.


-If im bard, will Greater Shout or Otto's dance spells even land?

Greater shout, otto resistible and otto sphere, no.
Otto irresistible, yes. Fascinate, yes.


-Are there such thing as THF Arti's?

THF Arti loses runearm, a meaningful source of damage on a pure arti. Battle engineer tree has enhancements for one-and-a-half-hand weapons, namely bastard swords and dwarven waraxes. With them you can land glancing blows with a runearm in your offhand, and they benefit from THF line.
However ability mod to damage is just 1x like other one handed weapons, not 1.5x like two handed ones.

[Soulfurnace]

Your DC won't be high enough, but some light spells don't have DC so it won't directly affect their damage.
With a low wis you will have few spellpoints though, so you're better saving them for heals/buffs.
Wisdom doesn't affect sp as much as people believe...
It won't affect your spell damage, but you DC, as he said, will be low.



Greater shout, otto resistible and otto sphere, no.
Otto irresistible, yes. Fascinate, yes.
Otto's sphere? Depends on difficulty, how geared you are and exactly what your feats/destinies are.
It is viable if fully geared.



THF Arti loses runearm, a meaningful source of damage on a pure arti. Battle engineer tree has enhancements for one-and-a-half-hand weapons, namely bastard swords and dwarven waraxes. With them you can land glancing blows with a runearm in your offhand, and they benefit from THF line.
However ability mod to damage is just 1x like other one handed weapons, not 1.5x like two handed ones.
...I believe you forgot to mention this. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/404822-The-Juggernaut-Prime-of-the-Warforged)

[Darkstar1996]

So cleric and bard will be buy DC. While arti (jugg) will be fine. And ottos irresistable is single target right? Is jugg better than pure thf bard? Also does jugg use spells (blade barrier etc)

[Soulfurnace]

So cleric and bard will be buy DC. While arti (jugg) will be fine. And ottos irresistable is single target right? Is jugg better than pure thf bard? Also does jugg use spells (blade barrier etc)
Juggs buff and heal. That's about it in regards to spells.
Much better than a thf bard melee wise.

[Darkstar1996]

Juggs buff and heal. That's about it in regards to spells.
Much better than a thf bard melee wise.

How about melee caster druids? Cause I think I might buy druid.

[Darkstar1996]

Low WIS on a cleric or FvS will reduce your DCs, which reduces how often most of your DPS spells land, which reduces your caster DPS. You have some light-based spells with no saves (Nimbus / Searing Light & Divine Punishment); and Blade Barrier can still be useful against low-Reflex mobs if you're lucky.

If you're a pure CHA-based bard who invested in DCs & Spell Pen - probably yes; if you're a STR-based melee-focused bard - probably not.

Sure: the Juggernaut is functionally a THF Arty, even tho it doesn't take the feats. Or do you mean "1H+Runearm" build? Those are less common, but doable as well.

Yes, depending on how you build it. Make your questions more specific, I'll give more specific advice.

Not sure about Tukaw, but this is what a "low-rent" Juggie might look like:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 21 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Monk \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Artificer \ 1 Epic)
Hit Points: 265
Spell Points: 766
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 21)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 21)
Balance 2 12
Bluff -2 0
Concentration 7 29
Diplomacy -2 0
Disable Device 5 26
Haggle -2 0
Heal -2 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -2 0
Jump 3 6
Listen -2 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 15
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 3
Search 5 26
Spot -2 7
Swim 3 4
Tumble n/a 4
Use Magic Device 2 23

Level 1 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 7 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 12 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 19 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Mithral Body


Level 21 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical


Naturally, downgrading to 28 pts means making sacrifices; I decided to drop pally splash & dump CHA. I also gave up Prec Shot + IPS; in exchange, I picked up the THF chain. I backloaded the tomes as much as possible; that meant I could delay the rgr splash since you really only need those feats for Manyshot.

As melee jugg y do I need many shot n all that if I'm melee n is there specific 2h or any like greataxe now then greatsword later?

[Soulfurnace]

How about melee caster druids? Cause I think I might buy druid.
A druid that uses both melee and casting? Are you talking about wis or str based?

[Darkstar1996]

A druid that uses both melee and casting? Are you talking about wis or str based?

Idk. I just heard they make good hybrids. I'm gussing the one more melee less spells

[Soulfurnace]

Idk. I just heard they make good hybrids. I'm gussing the one more melee less spells
If it's str based, it's limited to using no save spells

If it's wis based, it has less dps, to-hit, etc.
I suppose an unarmed druid using stunning fist, wis based, is viable though.

[Book_O_Dragons]

I strongly advise against the Tukaw build. Much of that build's power comes from playing it right and if you haven't unlocked champion status with favor yet you won't be able to play it properly not to mention that I wouldn't even try to change the stats around.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/181901-Tukaw-s-official-build-post

If you are going to solo much make an artificer but I recommend a ranged repeater artificer as easier to play and build.

If you have no plans to solo make a bard. Bards are a strong support class but have trouble getting enough dps to solo at higher levels. On the other hand bards are easy to build and hard to screw up too badly unless you try to do too many things.

Melee clerics are probably the easiest to build and play among all the builds you mentioned. It will be easy for you to get into groups and your aura can save you a lot of watching health bars.

[unbongwah]

As melee jugg y do I need many shot n all that if I'm melee n is there specific 2h or any like greataxe now then greatsword later?
Manyshot+Bow STR+Unbridled Fury (FotW epic moment) - aka "Furyshot" - provides some amazing burst DPS; it's a crucial part of what makes the Juggernaut special. Asking why a Juggy uses bows is like asking why a Tempest uses bows; it's because MS is just that awesome. :)

Juggernaut basically gains 3 things from arty 16: Reconstruct, Deadly Weapons, and 4 feats (Quicken + 3 ranged feats or 2 ranged + Mithril Body). [Arty buffs, Repair spells, etc. also help out, but a lot of that can come from gear, ship buffs, etc.] It doesn't use any caster DPS because it doesn't have the DCs to make them worthwhile; Flame Turret might be useful while leveling, but that's about it. Monk splash provides 2 extra feats, Evasion, and +3 to all saves; if you plan to use Sireth, you can also take advantage of monk stances. The pally-splashed version gains Divine Grace (+CHA to all saves) and can add Divine Might if it Twists in Bane of Undeath from US; while the rgr-splashed version gains two ranged feats free (Bow STR+Rapid Shot), which on my build makes room for THF chain. [Rgr Juggie can also be switched to TWF if you prefer.]

As for weapons: if you check the Jugg thread, you'll see eSOS or Sireth is the final goal; but honestly Jugg works fine with any decent 2H weapon. Part of the beauty of Jugg is, as long as you have WF+arty unlocked, you can adapt the core concepts to almost any build situation or less-than-ideal gear setup.