Pale Master Build Feedback Request

[Dalmorn]

Updated 8/31/2011 - There has been alot of good feedback provided in this thread. In an attempt to help people that are interested in or are looking to go "Pale Master", I have been adjusting/updating this build and topic with the feedback that has been provided from the great people within.

Note:
1. The reason I took/need “Mental Toughness” is because I want to have “Shroud of the Wraith”. Once I get "Shroud of the Lich" at level 18, I will probably use my free "Feat" swap and drop "Mental Toughness" and pickup Gr Spell Penetration.
2. Not interested in “UMD”, this is the reason why no points were put in to Charisma. This may change change once I get closer to End Game. If I do decide to go the UMD route, I will probably do a LR.
3. I Put 14 in “Strength” for a couple reasons. (1) Avoid being incapacitated while enfeebled. (2) Will not need any gear with +strength stats End Game. This would allow me to use other gear with different stat, skill or ability boosts rather than STR. (3) More carry weight before getting encumbered. (4) Makes the early levels easier doing melee do to the low SP points.

Dalmoris 20 Wizard "Pale Master" – First Life

True Neutral Human

32 point (Champion) Build

Starting Stat Options:

*High STR: Avoid being incapacitated while enfeebled and to up the carrying load
STR 14 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 16 +2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 8 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 8 +2

Or

*Max CON: More Hit Points
STR 8 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 18+2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 8 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 8 +2

Or

*Balanced: No Penalties except in DEX.
STR 10 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 16 +2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 10 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 10 +2

OR

*High CHA: Great if investing in UMD.
STR 8 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 16 +2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 8 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 14 +2

Feats Options- Updated after feedback:

**Feats if taking "Shroud of the Wraith"
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Spell Penetration
15 SF Enchantment
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

**Feats w/out taking "Shroud of the Wraith"
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Spell Penetration
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Gr Spell Penetration
15 SF Enchantment
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

**Feats with "Shield Mastery" and "Improved Shield Mastery"
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Spell Penetration
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Gr Spell Penetration
15 Shield Mastery
18 Improved Shield Master
20 Heighten

Enhancements - Updated after Feedback:

**Enhancements if Taking "Shroud of the Wraith"
Wizard Intelligence III (12)
Wizard Master of Magic (2)
Human Adaptability Intelligence (2)
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution (4)
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III (6)
Racial Toughness II (3)
Wizard Spell Penetration III (12)
Wizard Pale Master III (8)
Shroud of the Lich (2)
Shroud of the Wraith (1)
wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Storm Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Shocks I (1)
Wizard Charged Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Improved Empowering I (2)
Wizard Improved Maximizing I (2)
Wizard Improved Quickening I (2)
Wizard Improved Heightening I (4)

*Note: If not going to take "Shroud of the Wraith", you have 1AP Point to spend. You could always use that to get "Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I".

*From levels 1 - 15, it is recommended to go with the following for leveling:
wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Fire Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Flame I (1)
Wizard Combustive Spellcasting I (1)

At around Level 15 or 16, drop the Fire Line and go Ice/Energy or Ice/Force:
wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Storm Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Shocks I (1)
Wizard Charged Spellcasting I (1)

Or

wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Force Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Kinetics I (1)
Wizard Kinetic Spellcasting I (1)

*Note: For additional great reading that has really helped me alot, see LeLoric's guide on "Building an End Game Pale Master" found here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302573

In conclusion, there are alot of different ways to go with Stats, Skills, Feats and Enhancments when building a "Pale Master" wizard. By no means is anything I have said meant to be the definitive way to go when building one. Alot of the choices ultimately comes down to play style and personal choice. What works for one person will not necessarily work for another.

I would like to say thank you to everyone that has provided valuable insight, feedback and advice in to creating a viable "Pale Master" Wizard build.


Thanks,

Dalmorn

[LolWutRoflstomped]

Go Full Cold 7/1/1 Electric with 1 point in fire damage. Also I prefer GSF Illusion and SF Illusion over the enchantments. I would swap mental toughness for quicken and insightful for empower.

[Oran_Lathor]

The build looks solid. Personally I like having both empower and quicken, but lots of people play without one or the other. Possibly consider giving up one of the spell foci enchantment to get both of those, though.

Enhancements: I think you're investing too heavily in dmg lines (esp. fire, against which a lot of endgame mobs are immune) but these are easily reworked every three days. I thnk you'll get more mileage from a few point in each of cold/lightning lines and use the freed up points for some improved metamagic enhancements. I usually go with imp. heighten/quicken/emp 1, and imp. max 2-- or there abouts.

Pretty standard wizard here, but it's the standard because it works. :)

[The_Brave2]

Couple things I can think of right off the bat:

Drop Insightful Reflexes - The damage mitigation will not help you enough to matter without a splash of rogue of monk
-Pick up Empower AND Quicken, both are necessary
Drop Fire Spec - Most mobs at endgame will be immune to fire
-Pick up Elec Spec - Lightning/Cold is the most effective endgame spec because of Eladar's Electric Surge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eladar%27s_Electric_Surge) and Niac's Biting Cold (http://ddowiki.com/page/Niac%27s_Biting_Cold) DoT's. Which are the most efficient and best damage spells currently ingame for single target.

Other than that, it looks solid if you are sure that you want the extra STR instead of extra CON, which I would advise against because you can have plenty of carrying capacity with a +STR item and you shouldn't spec you toon for low levels unless you plan on staying at them :D

Edit:

Go Full Cold 7/1/1 Electric with 1 point in fire damage. Also I prefer GSF Illusion and SF Illusion over the enchantments.

No, the most that an Illusion focus will help you with is about 200 SP for having both of them, along with increasing your PK chance at proccing, not worth it at all.

[Arasimaru]

My suggestions follow along the lines of the others.
-Drop Insightful Reflexes to take both Empower Spell and Quicken Spell.
-Lower Crit Range & Crit Damage to one enhancement point each (Thus freeing 10 points).
-Take the seven teirs of Storm Manipulation, as well as the first teir of the crit damage and second teir of crit range.

Reasoning:
1) Insightful Reflexes is virtually worthless to you without two monk or rogue levels, whereas quicken and empower both have distinct benefits.
2) Fire damage isn't as important and end game, though people tend to downplay it's use at endgame. Out of all the mobs at end game, about 35%-45% of them are highly fire resistant or immune. However, the two most run non-epic raids have bosses immune to fire. (Shroud, Tower of Despair), so investing in another line is a good choice. Removing crit from fire hardly reduces the spell you'll likely be using of that element (Wall of Fire), and it's a good way to fit electric in.
3) As stated by The_Brave2, electricity is a highly valued element due to Eladar's Electric Surge, and if possible it's always good to take something in electricity.

Your attribute point distribution isn't perfect, but I don't think it's going to impact your build in any signifigant manner.

[Dalmorn]

Thank you for the Feedback T_Brave, much appreciated, couple questions though.

Couple things I can think of right off the bat:
Drop Insightful Reflexes - The damage mitigation will not help you enough to matter without a splash of rogue of monk.

I don't know about dropping Insightful Reflexes, without it I wouldn't have a chance to pass epic saves, with that I I would think I would have at least over 50% to do this from what I have been reading from different posts on this. Even if it is lower that 50%, I would think some kind of saving throws added in would be beneficial. Definitely something to think about and test. This is a tough one.


-Pick up Empower AND Quicken, both are necessary

If I did drop Insightful Reflexes, I would be able to do this. Question is, If I decided not to drop Insightful Reflexes and I had to choose between Empower or Quicken, which should I choose? Is there any other Feat other than Insightful Reflexes that could be dropped in order to get both Empower and Quicken?
Drop Fire Spec - Most mobs at endgame will be immune to fire


-Pick up Elec Spec - Lightning/Cold is the most effective endgame spec because of Eladar's Electric Surge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eladar%27s_Electric_Surge) and Niac's Biting Cold (http://ddowiki.com/page/Niac%27s_Biting_Cold) DoT's. Which are the most efficient and best damage spells currently in game for single target

Good to know, I did not know this about Fire. I am all for effectiveness. Last thing I want is alot of my spells being resisted due to immunities or extremely high resists.


Other than that, it looks solid if you are sure that you want the extra STR instead of extra CON, which I would advise against because you can have plenty of carrying capacity with a +STR item and you shouldn't spec you toon for low levels unless you plan on staying at them :D
[/color]

14 in STR may probable be a bit high. The other option I was thinking about would be:
STR 10+2
DEX 10+2
CON 16+2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 10+2
INT 18+2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 8+2

Thanks again, much appreciated on the feedback and advice.

[Oran_Lathor]

For the record, I disagree with dropping insightful reflexes. Taking half damage all the time vs. full damage is huge mitigation for a class with aura healing. Many times it means your aura alone is enough to heal you through the delayed blast fireballs etc, when other PM are running away neg. bursting.

Insightful reflexes is definitely worth more, imo, than a second enchant focus.


Edit: don't put start points into dex (especiallllly if you have insightful reflexes, since that replaces dexterity's only functionality). Keep the starting str so you don't need a str item at endgame, or--as the brave was likely suggesting-- start with 18 int and 18 con.

[unbongwah]

Also I prefer GSF Illusion and SF Illusion over the enchantments.
Really? What for - Hypnotic Pattern & Phantasmal Killer? Hardly seems worth it.

Drop Insightful Reflexes - The damage mitigation will not help you enough to matter without a splash of rogue of monk
I disagree: taking half-dmg is still better than taking full dmg, esp. on a low-HP class like wizard. Besides, he's not really hurting for feats.

-Pick up Empower AND Quicken, both are necessary
Agree - I would probably drop Extend or GSP or GSF Enchant to fit them in.

[Dalmorn]

The build looks solid. Personally I like having both empower and quicken, but lots of people play without one or the other. Possibly consider giving up one of the spell foci enchantment to get both of those, though.

Enhancements: I think you're investing too heavily in dmg lines (esp. fire, against which a lot of endgame mobs are immune) but these are easily reworked every three days. I thnk you'll get more mileage from a few point in each of cold/lightning lines and use the freed up points for some improved metamagic enhancements. I usually go with imp. heighten/quicken/emp 1, and imp. max 2-- or there abouts.

Pretty standard wizard here, but it's the standard because it works. :)

I dropped Fire and picked up the Lightning line and going Cold/Lighning. Would it make sense to drop both lines to 7/1/1 or just one of the lines (Lightning Line)? Doing this would Give me 10 - 20 points to reallocate to the MetaMagic Enhancments.

Thanks again Oran_Lathor for your advice and feedback.

[Oran_Lathor]

I dropped Fire and picked up the Lightning line and going Cold/Lighning. Would it make sense to drop both lines to 7/1/1 or just one of the lines (Lightning Line)? Doing this would Give me 10 - 20 points to reallocate to the MetaMagic Enhancments.

Thanks again Oran_Lathor for your advice and feedback.

I prefer 7/1/1 in both lines, myself. the first points give 4x the pay off of the succeeding points, and the meta-enhancers are just a better bang for your buck at that point. Plus, with 7/1/1 in cold and elec, your dps will be above most all melee when you've got both niac's and eladars running. Going full lines, you will have to be careful not to pull agro off your hate tanks all the time. That said, with this build, once you have endgame gear, you will be able to tank raid-bosses yourself and self-heal through most of them :)

Have fun, and you're welcome for the advice.

[The_Brave2]

Thank you for the Feedback T_Brave, much appreciated, couple questions though.

Np, happy to help.



I don't know about dropping Insightful Reflexes, without it I wouldn't have a chance to pass epic saves, with that I I would think I would have at least over 50% to do this from what I have been reading from different posts on this. Even if it is lower that 50%, I would think some kind of saving throws added in would be beneficial. Definitely something to think about and test. This is a tough one.

For the most part in epics your saves will not matter, the only thing you will have to save against is a AOE spell since traps are practically non-existant in Epics (save for the sands epics). With high hp and self healing you will not have to worry about taking a few extra damage off of spells. If you really want to get insightfull reflexes think about taking a 2 rogue splash so you get the full benefit from it. (meaning you take a -2 Int Penalty and no free reduction to Meta's) Although I do not suggest this, it is a viable choice.




If I did drop Insightful Reflexes, I would be able to do this. Question is, If I decided not to drop Insightful Reflexes and I had to choose between Empower or Quicken, which should I choose? Is there any other Feat other than Insightful Reflexes that could be dropped in order to get both Empower and Quicken?


If you decided against dropping insightful reflexes I would drop Greater Spell Pen - Few mobs have high enough spell resist that 1 feat + 3 Enhancements isnt going to give you enough, the main examples of mobs you would want spell pen for would be from eChrono/eDA. Mobs that have very high spell pen tend to have it high enough that no matter what you do it wont get you even in the 20% chance range, examples being drow in the Sentinels chain. I can attest that on my Second life WF AM that Spell pen is not an issue with the past life +2, and the 3 Enhancements, which would be the same as you would have with one enhancements.






Good to know, I did not know this about Fire. I am all for effectiveness. Last thing I want is alot of my spells being resisted due to immunities or extremely high resists.



14 in STR may probable be a bit high. The other option I was thinking about would be:
STR 10+2
DEX 10+2
CON 16+2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 10+2
INT 18+2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 8+2

Thanks again, much appreciated on the feedback and advice.

The new stat distribution looks good. As per fire, it is still the best leveling spec imo.


I disagree: taking half-dmg is still better than taking full dmg, esp. on a low-HP class like wizard. Besides, he's not really hurting for feats.

Taking half-dmg is highly over-rated imo, and Wizard is by NO means a low hp class as either a PM or a WF. Currently my WF AM is hitting 570something HP buffed without a GS HP item. He is hurting for feats, he is struggling to fit in both empower and quicken :D

[Oran_Lathor]

I will certainly not say that Insightful Reflexes is necessary, but have you tried it The_Brave? My wizard hits 627 hp (double TR pale master, very similar build to the OPs), and I find insightful reflexes to be a very valuable feat.

Also, it's slightly more useful on a pale master than an archmage, in my opinion, since it turns a 500 dmg sunburst into a 60 dmg sunburst. Not to mention, with auras, taking half damage often means you can let the aura top you off in a tick as opposed to needing to cast a burst. Is it worth more than an extra spell focus or spell pen feat? Matter of opinion, but it is definitely a solid feat choice.

[LolWutRoflstomped]

No, the most that an Illusion focus will help you with is about 200 SP for having both of them, along with increasing your PK chance at proccing, not worth it at all.

I cast PK like its going out of style. Circle, and Wail. PK and Finger Survivors. More 8 second cooldown instakills is always better. Just use it on the melees and Finger on casters.

[LolWutRoflstomped]

Insightful is definitely playstyle. I use ring of djinn and firestorm greaves when I need absorb with prot spam and am fine.

[Oran_Lathor]

Insightful is definitely playstyle. I use ring of djinn and firestorm greaves when I need absorb with prot spam and am fine.

Agreed, it's a playstyle thing. But with it, you wouldn't need to prot spam most of the time. I stand in the middle of elite Enter the Kobold (without greaves) and don't need to prot spam.. Just auras and nuke the bosses (once i've taken out the living meteor swarms).

[The_Brave2]

I cast PK like its going out of style. Circle, and Wail. PK and Finger Survivors. More 8 second cooldown instakills is always better. Just use it on the melees and Finger on casters.

PK is certainly nice, and I do have it prepped. but its not worth the feats imo


I will certainly not say that Insightful Reflexes is necessary, but have you tried it The_Brave? My wizard hits 627 hp (double TR pale master, very similar build to the OPs), and I find insightful reflexes to be a very valuable feat.

Also, it's slightly more useful on a pale master than an archmage, in my opinion, since it turns a 500 dmg sunburst into a 60 dmg sunburst. Not to mention, with auras, taking half damage often means you can let the aura top you off in a tick as opposed to needing to cast a burst. Is it worth more than an extra spell focus or spell pen feat? Matter of opinion, but it is definitely a solid feat choice.

I have tried insightful reflexes, but on my first life of my AM, So i cannot say that its not effective for a PM, so it would defiantly be a playstyle choice, however I would still suggest dropping it in favor of both quicken and empower

[Oran_Lathor]

Yeah, I agree I would take quicken and empower over IR. I just think some of the other feats are worth less on this build than any of the 3.


Anyhow, OP, your wizard will be fine following any of the advice in this thread. These are all little things. You've got the major things right.

[Tirisha]

personally I'd drop mental toughness (lich>wraith) to pick up quicken and empower. If you don't take both, I'd recommend quicken if you see yourself taking on the more challenging quests. I've seen somebody try to CC EDA without quicken once and let me just say..... it didn't end well for most of the party, the rest took a trip through a blue transparent door.

also consider going the 18 int, 18 con route, all your other stats are just for show really. *str is only useful for carrying cap.*

[The_Brave2]

Yeah, I agree I would take quicken and empower over IR. I just think some of the other feats are worth less on this build than any of the 3.


I thought the same thing at first also, but for a new capped caster it is important to have high DC's/Spell pen, so the GSF necro AND Enchantment is going to help him a lot.

Yep, he does have the major things right, should be a good build.


personally I'd drop mental toughness (lich>wraith) to pick up quicken and empower. If you don't take both, I'd recommend quicken if you see yourself taking on the more challenging quests. I've seen somebody try to CC EDA without quicken once and let me just say..... it didn't end well for most of the party, the rest took a trip through a blue transparent door.

Didn't realize you didn't need mental toughness for lich, if this is indeed the case, I would agree. Dropping Mental Toughness for quicken and Empower would make more sense if you are highly against dropping IR

However, if you do drop IR I would keep mental toughness for more SP.

[Dalmorn]

I prefer 7/1/1 in both lines, myself. the first points give 4x the pay off of the succeeding points, and the meta-enhancers are just a better bang for your buck at that point. Plus, with 7/1/1 in cold and elec, your dps will be above most all melee when you've got both niac's and eladars running. Going full lines, you will have to be careful not to pull agro off your hate tanks all the time. That said, with this build, once you have endgame gear, you will be able to tank raid-bosses yourself and self-heal through most of them :)

Have fun, and you're welcome for the advice.

Thanks again for the feedback, this will help me alot with 20 points getting freed up to invest in the Metamagics.


If you decided against dropping insightful reflexes I would drop Greater Spell Pen - Few mobs have high enough spell resist that 1 feat + 3 Enhancements isnt going to give you enough, the main examples of mobs you would want spell pen for would be from eChrono/eDA. Mobs that have very high spell pen tend to have it high enough that no matter what you do it wont get you even in the 20% chance range, examples being drow in the Sentinels chain. I can attest that on my Second life WF AM that Spell pen is not an issue with the past life +2, and the 3 Enhancements, which would be the same as you would have with one enhancements.

I will probably keep the Insightful Reflexes and and figure it can't hurt for the leveling process and Epics along the way, especially with being a first life "Human" Wizard. As far as picking up Quicken, I am leaning to dropping the GS Penetration. Since I am freeing up about 20 points from both the Cold and Lightning line, this should help me with getting Metamagic enhancments and more Spell Pen to offset not having GS Penetration Feat.

Revamped Feats:
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Maximize
6 SF Necromancy
9 Spell Penetration
10 SF Enchantment
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Quicken
15 Empower
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

[The_Brave2]

Revamped Feats:
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Maximize
6 SF Necromancy
9 Spell Penetration
10 SF Enchantment
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Quicken
15 Empower
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Spell Pen
15 SF Enchantment
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

Changed the level for a couple things you take, taking quicken and empower sooner will improve your leveling experience, I guarantee it :) Also, Empower before maximize since you don't have as much SP at low levels. You don't need spell pen or enchantment until cap so taking them early has no effect

[Oran_Lathor]

Looks great. Might want to change the order in which you take the feats.

Spell penetration, in particular isn't needed until you the Vale of Twilight (minimum level 12, quests level 16)


Edit: The_Brave beat me to the punch. His list looks good to me. Personally I would take quicken later and heighten earlier (unless you plan to run a lot of stuff on elite at level, in which case early quicken is good).

[Vellrad]

I admit, I din't readen the whole thread, just saw couple of replies.
IKD why, but I can't read any palemaster build after I see that its not a dwarf :D

Anyway, IMO, Insighful Reflexes is very valuable feat, adding +15 or more to reflex save, allowing to save at most spells and traps, even at epics. Even without evasion its a huge change- would yoou prefer to take 300-500 damage, or 150-250 hit? Not to mention, that most traps hits at least twice.
Also, spell focus enchantment is very useful, as you will still be casting a lot of disco balls and mass holds, hard to find group of mobs who won't save against circle-wail-mass hold combo, not to mention that if you sometimes hold instead of instakill, melees in team feels needed, and there is chance to reduce 'ZOMFG!1! castors are way 2 op, nerf now plox!!1!' threads, which are quite numerous on forums since U9 ;).

[mwgarn]

I'm really leaning on Insightful Reflexes too

The Brave2 list looks good except I do like heighten sooner and quicken later I also feel Enchantment helps sooner as well, would also take Insightful Reflexes a bit later too since at the earlier levels traps and spells tend not to hurt as much.

1 SF: Enchant
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Insightful Reflexes
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Spell Pen
15 Heighten
18 Quicken
20 GSF Enchantment

As far as enhancements go, the good thing about them is that you can adjust them very easy.
Go full fire from lvl 1-15 with as many of the metas you can fit in, then go cold and elect again with as many of the metas you can fit in.

And for UMD, at cap even with 8 char with some good items/gear/buffs and human versatility you can still hit the magic 39 if you put max skill points in it each lvl.

11 Base
3 Charisma (8 base,+6 item,+2 tome = 16 gives +3)
4 GH
6 Shroud Item (Con Opp)
3 Big Top
5 Seven Fingered Gloves
2 Luck
5 Human Versatility
39! No fail heal scrolls when out of form. Useful for you and party members.

This is pretty much what I'm going to be going for on my final life though I'm still going back and forth between Spell pen or GSF Enchant :)

It comes down to play style though.. everyone plays a little different so you'll get a lot of different advice!

[Dalmorn]

I thought the same thing at first also, but for a new capped caster it is important to have high DC's/Spell pen, so the GSF necro AND Enchantment is going to help him a lot.

Yep, he does have the major things right, should be a good build.



Didn't realize you didn't need mental toughness for lich, if this is indeed the case, I would agree. Dropping Mental Toughness for quicken and Empower would make more sense if you are highly against dropping IR

However, if you do drop IR I would keep mental toughness for more SP.

This is true, you do not need Mental Toughness for Lich. However, you do not get Lich till Level 18. Wraith however you get at level 12. It looks intersting to play as a Wraith and the description on what a Wraith is and can do sounds promising.

Shroud of Wraith: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many traits of a wraith. The shroud lasts until resting, and 5 minutes cooldown, you gain 25% incorporeality (and ignore incorporeal miss chance), float as if affected by featherfall, have bonus +20 to move silently, and deal constitution damage on unarmed critical hits. Also you can't self heal. You have +100% fortification, are healed by negative energy, and are unaffected by positive energy or repair effects. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purposes of most effects. This ability costs 100 spell points to activate. You may cast Death Aura, Lesser Death Aura to self heal. You don't make saving throws against helpful negative energy spells for half healing, and spells beneficial to Undead will no longer trigger spell resistance when cast on you by a Party member.

I figure If I don't like Shroud of the Wraith, I could always reset my Enhancments and drop Mental Toughness and add back GS Penetration to the Feats list.

New Break down of Feats and Enhancments:

Feats:
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Mental Toughness
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Spell Penetration
15 SF Enchantment
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

Enhancements:
Wizard Intelligence III (12)
Wizard Master of Magic (2)
Human Adaptability Intelligence (2)
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution (4)
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III (6)
Racial Toughness II (3)
Wizard Spell Penetration III (12)
Wizard Pale Master III (8)
Shroud of the Lich (2)
Shroud of the Wraith (1)
wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Storm Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Shocks I (1)
Wizard Charged Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Improved Empowering I (2)
Wizard Improved Maximizing I (2)
Wizard Improved Quickening I (2)
Wizard Improved Heightening I (4)

I will be updating my Original post to keep it updated as this becomes more refined. Hopefully this with be benificial to future people looking to roll a PM

[The_Brave2]

This is true, you do not need Mental Toughness for Lich. However, you do not get Lich till Level 18. Wraith however you get at level 12. It looks intersting to play as a Wraith and the description on what a Wraith is and can do sounds promising.


My suggestion was for once you are capped, while leveling it is a good idea. switching it out with the free feat once you are capped could also be done.

[Tirisha]

My suggestion was for once you are capped, while leveling it is a good idea. switching it out with the free feat once you are capped could also be done.

same here.

[Atr]

It's really better to take one improved metamagic enhancement for each feat instead on focus on one you use more often? As a level 15 palemaster I only use metamagic feats for final bosses or when I know I'll use a Shrine soon, and I thought that maybe focusing in one (maximize for example) I would use it more often.

[Alternative]

It's good to have a couple points in str on a PM since you will be getting hit with ray of enfeeblement A LOT and while in undead form making you encumbered, and there is no way to remove this status without leaving undead form (and then wasting 100sp to reenter it) other than a named ring with harm clickie from abbot raid, obviously won't be available to a first life wizard. Would be also great if PM advice were given by people who actually play a PM...

My PM has starting 18 con and 12 str but that's 36p build. 16 con is more than fine.

[budalic]

Insightful Reflexes is definitively worthwile. Not only you take less damage, but you don't get knocked down by cometfalls and Tharaak hounds; don't get webbed easily, and have few other perks. Wizard w/ Insightful reflexes, for example, can solo Wolf room in eADQ1 while rest of the team is doing central part/other rooms.

I don't really think Mental toughness, SF: Enchantment and GSF: Enchant are worth it. Now, if you care for enchantmet, you want feats, OK; but I'd retrain out of M. Tougness after gaining lich form for something more useful... Greater Spell pen or something similar. (I also have Shield mastery instead of sf:ench feats - very good on a PM, IMO)

Of course, like you can see in this thread, there are many feat choices for Pale Master - I think you should experiment and find your own style once you get to cap. First tier of Argo favor gives you flawless shard, so you can change feats 2 times at cap for free if you have GH.

[Vellrad]

It's good to have a couple points in str on a PM since you will be getting hit with ray of enfeeblement A LOT and while in undead form making you encumbered, and there is no way to remove this status without leaving undead form (and then wasting 100sp to reenter it) other than a named ring with harm clickie from abbot raid, obviously won't be available to a first life wizard. Would be also great if PM advice were given by people who actually play a PM...

My PM has starting 18 con and 12 str but that's 36p build. 16 con is more than fine.

There are scrolls of harm avaible from collectors, and you can always say to cleric you need harming.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd do the 18 con, 18 int build. If you're new then you won't have the same HP gear that most players have so might as well make up for it a bit with the extra con (though it'll make the first few levels a bit slower).

For the feats, I'd take greater spell penetration instead of extend and plan to fit in heighten around level 10-12.

For skills, I'd suggest Concentration, Balance, UMD, Move Silently, Hide, Tumble (1), Jump (5) ... then other stuff.

[budalic]

For the feats, I'd take greater spell penetration instead of extend and plan to fit in heighten around level 10-12.

Since Death Aura is quite short non-extended, I doubt that's a good idea. Especially with new players.

[lhidda]

which feat you would swap out for wiz past life feat? empower? i guess i swap out SR, because you get +2 for each past life wiz (max. 3 times).

[budalic]

which feat you would swap out for wiz past life feat? empower? i guess i swap out SR, because you get +2 for each past life wiz (max. 3 times).

Yeah, swapping out spell penetration is best in my opinion, too.

You need empower fo spell damage... I don't think I'd swap that one out under any conditions.

[Dalmorn]

I am think about doing a LR when I hit about lvl 17 or 18 and pick up UMD. One thing I am having a hard time figuring out is what to drop to pickup the "Skill Focus: UMD" feat. In addition, what should I drop for Human Versatility and haw far should I go with it? Should I take Human Versatility to IV?

Currently this it what I am at:
Stats:
STR 14 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 16 +2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 8 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 8 +2

Feats:
1 Insightful Reflexes
1 Extend
1 Toughness
3 Spell Penetration
5 Empower
6 SF Necromancy
9 Quicken
10 Maximize
12 GSF Necromancy
15 Gr Spell Penetration
15 SF Enchantment
18 GSF Enchantment
20 Heighten

Enhancments:
**Enhancements if Taking "Shroud of the Wraith"
Wizard Intelligence III (12)
Wizard Master of Magic (2)
Human Adaptability Intelligence (2)
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution (4)
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III (6)
Racial Toughness II (3)
Wizard Spell Penetration III (12)
Wizard Pale Master III (8)
Shroud of the Lich (2)
Shroud of the Wraith (1)
wizard Frost Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Ice I (1)
Wizard Glacial Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Storm Manipulation VII (7)
Wizard Deadly Shocks I (1)
Wizard Charged Spellcasting I (1)
Wizard Improved Empowering I (2)
Wizard Improved Maximizing I (2)
Wizard Improved Quickening I (2)
Wizard Improved Heightening I (4)

Stat wise, I am thinking about doing this:
STR 8 +2
DEX 8 +2
CON 16 +2 (+1 from Enhancement)
WIS 8 +2
INT 18 +2 (+4 from Enhancements)
CHA 14 +2

Again, not sure about Feats and Enhancments for squeezing in the UMD stuff.

Thanks,

Dalmorn