Speak up, dont be shy

[Ryan220]

This topic has been flogged like an extremely deadhorse but Im going to bring it up once again in the hope that it might change things.


My TR is at level for running Tempests Spine and has run it a few times over the last few days.


Everytime I join group I always ask if its anyones first time or if anyones not familiar and always no replies.


As soon as we step in people are running off in all directions and....well, you know the story



Please PLEASE, let someone know if youre unfamiliar with a quest. Many people (myself included) dont mind helping people along, after all we were all new to quests once (my memory is so poor that many quests are like my first time everytime).


But, not to speak up is really frustrating for everyone.


If the LFM doesnt mention zerg or know it etc, then the leader is most likely happy to have you along and will help you out if you speak up.



We are all here to have fun - help us to help you

:-)

[mindlessdrone1991]

This topic has been flogged like an extremely deadhorse but Im going to bring it up once again in the hope that it might change things.


My TR is at level for running Tempests Spine and has run it a few times over the last few days.


Everytime I join group I always ask if its anyones first time or if anyones not familiar and always no replies.


As soon as we step in people are running off in all directions and....well, you know the story



Please PLEASE, let someone know if youre unfamiliar with a quest. Many people (myself included) dont mind helping people along, after all we were all new to quests once (my memory is so poor that many quests are like my first time everytime).


But, not to speak up is really frustrating for everyone.


If the LFM doesnt mention zerg or know it etc, then the leader is most likely happy to have you along and will help you out if you speak up.



We are all here to have fun - help us to help you

:-)

^ This.

[Vint]

I completely agree. I was once willing to help and would go out of my way to help anyone in need. As of late a larger majority of players don't want to take advice or construcitve critizim. It becomes very frustrating to play as long as I have, and still have people in groups that refuse to be accountable. Sure they might know everything about a quest or might even be brand new to the quest, it would be very considerate of them to at least ask for help, or follow simple directions.

I know it is a game and you can hide behind the anonimity of your actions, but when someone (elitest, jerk, zerjer, wont listen to the leader, etc...) ruins time of 5 or 11 other people it gets very annoying.

You can give me 5 fresh people of the boat, and I will lead them thru ww and have fun. I am all for helping people that actually are willing to listen and are willing to take my time seriously. If you give me a person that dosen't show concern for my time, why the hell should I care about them?

There are a ton of people that like to post on the forums about "help the newbs", which I am for, but I'll be damned if I will spend another Saturday afternoon wasting my breath on an idiot that can't follow simple instructions.

[BoolZ]

Most experiences I've had with this subject are the complete opposite. Saw I guy get kicked from a 'Pikers Fate' because the leader didn't want to 'teach'. I saw a Shroud group who 'Didn't have the Star' and 'Had the Star' told the newbie different instructions in part2, and we didn't get the crystal until part 2.4.

I agree people should speak up, but they shouldn't be punished for being new.

[Xatasha]

My advice is just assume that there is someone in your group that is new and explain things in detail...when doing pugs. Also expect the worst and hope for the best.

New players often will not say anything when asked if they are new since they might be kicked or end up the butt of jokes. Yes there are many nice people that love helping however just as many trolls looking for a reason to attack.

[badkhan]

My take on this topic, as a newbie, is that it's really important to send a tell to the group leader before you ask to join his group, when you don't know the quest/raid. (Especially true for quests after level 12/14, when doing something wrong can mean put the whole group into trouble). I always ask :"Hello is it ok for a first timer to join your group ?"

I have been kicked from PUGs many times for saying it was "my 1st time on this quest". It's not fun and it's a frustrating feeling. You wonder "what is wrong with this guy? why being rude ?". BTW, I never even join "byoh" or "know it dont die" kind of LFMs even if i know the quest. I figured i probably was better off not running with these rude Vet/TRs. It's a game after all.

There were exceptions to that and it's the Shroud, ToD and Hound raids. Leaders always want people that "know what they are doing" and even if i send a nice tell to the leader i have never been accepted in one of these raids this way. So i "sneaked" my way into these raids, not telling anyone i was a newbie. Playing a bard (people mostly expect you to sing and haste/rage and that's it) maybe helped me here. I tried to stick to the leader and did everything i could not to die. It went well and i've never been caught doing "something wrong". I just died once in my first ToD but i wasn't the only one and i was raised soon. These were also the most exiting DDO experiences for me ^^. First time ToD when you dont want to get caught dying or doing something wrong (but you dont want to pick either) guaranties a nice adrenalin rush !

My guild is quite small, with a lot of newbie and only a few veterans. When they're online, they come to the raids with me and send me tell to explain what is going on, but i'm lucky i have them, not all newbie know helpful experienced players i guess.

Something that surprised me is the cheer amount a newbies that obviously have no idea what they are doing, are not self sufficient at all and, even when the leader ask if there is someone new, will not tell it. These are the same people that run off and get killed really fast. So i understand experienced players want to be careful with who they will group with. (Off topic but i noticed half of them play monk, maybe i'm wrong but i've learned to be very careful when following a HOrc Monk that rushes ahead of everyone : these guys die and ragequite a lot !)

But please : if someone sends you a tell saying he's new but he'll be careful, please consider accepting him, even in your raids :)

[Syllph]

Make a party where you are the leader. When Everyone enters don't ask if it's their first time. Simply Start taking command.

Tell who's casting what, who's running where and let them know what's happening. Put something of this effect in the LFM.

[Durakal]

My experience is if you say you are not familiar with a quest you get booted. Many of us want to take the time to learn the quest but few are willing to teach.

[Ryan220]

My experience is if you say you are not familiar with a quest you get booted. Many of us want to take the time to learn the quest but few are willing to teach.

I wouldnt ever boot anyone from being new.


We were all new once. Even as a TR my exp isnt so important that I would spoil someone elses fun.

[gerardIII]

Your mistake is you assume people who don't tell you it's their first time in Tempest Spine read the forums.
That is all.



This topic has been flogged like an extremely deadhorse but Im going to bring it up once again in the hope that it might change things.

My TR is at level for running Tempests Spine and has run it a few times over the last few days.
Everytime I join group I always ask if its anyones first time or if anyones not familiar and always no replies.
As soon as we step in people are running off in all directions and....well, you know the story

Please PLEASE, let someone know if youre unfamiliar with a quest. Many people (myself included) dont mind helping people along, after all we were all new to quests once (my memory is so poor that many quests are like my first time everytime).
But, not to speak up is really frustrating for everyone.

If the LFM doesnt mention zerg or know it etc, then the leader is most likely happy to have you along and will help you out if you speak up.

We are all here to have fun - help us to help you
:-)
Compact version. Don't need 2 CRLF after each sentence.

[Ryan220]

Your mistake is you assume people who don't tell you it's their first time in Tempest Spine read the forums.
That is all.



Compact version. Don't need 2 CRLF after each sentence.


Sorry about the 2CR.

I post from my phone and it all looks too compact otherwise

But I didnt think it was that much of a problem?

[jaegarnel]

My take on this topic, as a newbie, is that it's really important to send a tell to the group leader before you ask to join his group, when you don't know the quest/raid. (Especially true for quests after level 12/14, when doing something wrong can mean put the whole group into trouble). I always ask :"Hello is it ok for a first timer to join your group ?"

I have been kicked from PUGs many times for saying it was "my 1st time on this quest". It's not fun and it's a frustrating feeling. You wonder "what is wrong with this guy? why being rude ?". BTW, I never even join "byoh" or "know it dont die" kind of LFMs even if i know the quest. I figured i probably was better off not running with these rude Vet/TRs. It's a game after all.

There were exceptions to that and it's the Shroud, ToD and Hound raids. Leaders always want people that "know what they are doing" and even if i send a nice tell to the leader i have never been accepted in one of these raids this way. So i "sneaked" my way into these raids, not telling anyone i was a newbie. Playing a bard (people mostly expect you to sing and haste/rage and that's it) maybe helped me here. I tried to stick to the leader and did everything i could not to die. It went well and i've never been caught doing "something wrong". I just died once in my first ToD but i wasn't the only one and i was raised soon. These were also the most exiting DDO experiences for me ^^. First time ToD when you dont want to get caught dying or doing something wrong (but you dont want to pick either) guaranties a nice adrenalin rush !

My guild is quite small, with a lot of newbie and only a few veterans. When they're online, they come to the raids with me and send me tell to explain what is going on, but i'm lucky i have them, not all newbie know helpful experienced players i guess.

Something that surprised me is the cheer amount a newbies that obviously have no idea what they are doing, are not self sufficient at all and, even when the leader ask if there is someone new, will not tell it. These are the same people that run off and get killed really fast. So i understand experienced players want to be careful with who they will group with. (Off topic but i noticed half of them play monk, maybe i'm wrong but i've learned to be very careful when following a HOrc Monk that rushes ahead of everyone : these guys die and ragequite a lot !)

But please : if someone sends you a tell saying he's new but he'll be careful, please consider accepting him, even in your raids :)

I've never been booted for being new, or seen someone be booted for being new.

Most quests I've soloed on normal before PUGing them, but for raids where the leader actually asked if people were new, I always said so and got a nice tutorial for my first Shroud, and a good explanation of what I should be doing in VoD, VoN, Reaver and HoX. Shroud leaders who want people who "know what they are doing" must be doing something wrong, imo, since the raid is easy on normal.
I haven't done ToD yet, since PUGs are rather rare for Amrath quests and I'm still in the process of flagging for it, but I expect that as long as I have the boots, leaders of a normal run won't care that I'm new.

If you don't know anything about the raid, it's likely the more experienced people will figure it out anyway, so it's better to admit it right away. It might help you avoid doing stupid things that will get you into people's "friends" list.

[Hambo]

Sorry about the 2CR.

I post from my phone and it all looks too compact otherwise

But I didnt think it was that much of a problem?

Better that than a deadly wall of text, where some people don't even put a space after a period (let alone two, as is standard in many professional documents), or even begin a new paragraph when stating a different point. :D

[Arnhelm]

Everytime I join group I always ask if its anyones first time or if anyones not familiar and always no replies.


As soon as we step in people are running off in all directions and....well, you know the story
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.

[Victorhammer]

But the kids do not want to speak up when they get into the quest because then you can hear that they are young kids. *kids* just wana have fun. And so off they go on their merry way.

[Zillee]

Hmm. When I started DDO I knew to speak up because - well, I read the forums like crazy when I joined looking for clues on how to play this weirdly addictive game - and saying you were new was part of each thread that advised new players. But my experience was that it didn't make a jot of difference until I got to the lvl 16+ quests/raids. As soon as I hit the vale, then people were more willing to explain stuff but prior to that I just had to try to keep up and not die. May be I was just unlucky and hit the wrong pugs up to that point? Dunno.

I do remember having some pretty dire experiences in the sands that almost made me quit and I did take a bit of a break because it just wasn't fun being new to a quest there. What I ended up doing was just gritting my teeth to get through that part, get the xp to level and then going back later on to redo them with a pocket healer so I could learn them. And yeah, watching the vids on youtube and reading the wiki guides helped out also with that. But I didn't expect to have to do so much 'homework' for a game :D

But sure, I would still advocate speaking up if you're new. At least there is a chance that someone will throw you advice or guidance, as opposed to no chance if you say nothing.

[Lanuric]

I can remember being a newbie all those years ago. Grabbing fire resist potions and not fire protect for my first ever Tempest Spine. Spending my first 15 minutes in the bag of a party member till we hit the shrine. And the lack of support for my ranger, denied joining groups because people "couldnt play rangers", or rangers were a crappy class. But over time, people learned some of us were good at playing rangers. As was said previously, I forget some of the quest content/method. But always happy to help out new people in quests, because I remember the rejection I got as a newbie. Lets see all the elitists and uber zergers first few runs as newbies......guarenteed they made plenty of mistakes before they got to where they are. Its a game, and the point of a game is fun.

As I said in a Genesis Point run I joined when the others were at the end (and they were struggling to complete it) anyone can have a good clean run. Its how you handle the ones that go fubar that tests you, and those are usually the most fun, because you have to think more than follow strict orders. And that brings us back again to the point of the game........fun!

[ThePrisoner]

Tempest Spine is a raid made for grease. The mad dash to the fire reaver, the sudden outdoor cliff, the end fight, new players, cranky "pros" - it's the perfect storm.

Embrace this fact, invest in a clicky, and begin enjoying the quest much more.


AGW.
Welcome.

[perylousdemon]

I remember running ToD for the first time. I managed to get into a PUG even after I sent the leader a tell saying I was new to the raid. Everyone--leader included--explained things every step of the way for me, and we owned Horoth. :)

[KillEveryone]

My take on this topic, as a newbie, is that it's really important to send a tell to the group leader before you ask to join his group, when you don't know the quest/raid. (Especially true for quests after level 12/14, when doing something wrong can mean put the whole group into trouble). I always ask :"Hello is it ok for a first timer to join your group ?"

I have been kicked from PUGs many times for saying it was "my 1st time on this quest". It's not fun and it's a frustrating feeling. You wonder "what is wrong with this guy? why being rude ?". BTW, I never even join "byoh" or "know it dont die" kind of LFMs even if i know the quest. I figured i probably was better off not running with these rude Vet/TRs. It's a game after all.

There were exceptions to that and it's the Shroud, ToD and Hound raids. Leaders always want people that "know what they are doing" and even if i send a nice tell to the leader i have never been accepted in one of these raids this way. So i "sneaked" my way into these raids, not telling anyone i was a newbie. Playing a bard (people mostly expect you to sing and haste/rage and that's it) maybe helped me here. I tried to stick to the leader and did everything i could not to die. It went well and i've never been caught doing "something wrong". I just died once in my first ToD but i wasn't the only one and i was raised soon. These were also the most exiting DDO experiences for me ^^. First time ToD when you dont want to get caught dying or doing something wrong (but you dont want to pick either) guaranties a nice adrenalin rush !

My guild is quite small, with a lot of newbie and only a few veterans. When they're online, they come to the raids with me and send me tell to explain what is going on, but i'm lucky i have them, not all newbie know helpful experienced players i guess.

Something that surprised me is the cheer amount a newbies that obviously have no idea what they are doing, are not self sufficient at all and, even when the leader ask if there is someone new, will not tell it. These are the same people that run off and get killed really fast. So i understand experienced players want to be careful with who they will group with. (Off topic but i noticed half of them play monk, maybe i'm wrong but i've learned to be very careful when following a HOrc Monk that rushes ahead of everyone : these guys die and ragequite a lot !)

But please : if someone sends you a tell saying he's new but he'll be careful, please consider accepting him, even in your raids :)

I've never been booted, never have booted anyone, never will boot anyone for being new.

I just want to know if you are new.

[nolaureltree000]

i find more people will speak up if after you say 'is anyone new to this raid?' you qualify it with 'i dont care if anyone is new, i wont kick you or anything, i just need to know how detailed of directions i need to give'.

[Doomcrew]

Try waiting for everyone to be inside the quest, where thay are safe
from the "boot", ask, and explain why you are asking. Won't be 100%
but might get a few newer folks in the loop.

[Rian]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. (or was it force? action? great...)

While there are many willing to teach, there are also many who refuse to.
Same for the students.
While there are some willing to learn, others will refuse to...

Sounds like highschool...

[Miahoo]

Try a different aspect: Ask who know the quest, and how many times he have done it.

So anyone who's not replying probably dont know it :) (Or too elitish to response, which is not the problem)

[Gremmlynn]

My experience with being asked that question in raids, granted it being limited to the 4 TS runs I've done that lead me to decide raids are not for me, just means the leader wants to know how many will be doing the raid and how many will have to be rounded up (though given a chance to loot chests) whenever it seems convenient.

In regular quests things tend not to be so bad in my experience and it likely has more to do with TS's horrid map situation (are all raids this way?) than leaders not caring. But the more detailed instructions in my few experiences have "been try to keep up".

[Zillee]

In regular quests things tend not to be so bad in my experience and it likely has more to do with TS's horrid map situation (are all raids this way?)

No, the map situation in the other raids is the same as in quests. It just seems to be in TS where you can't use the map to locate where you are.

[bkasavan]

Gremmlynn, Dont let Tepest Spine discourage you. Almost all the other raids are better, especially the higher level raids, were someone zill almost always explain.

Otherwise, unless i Really want to do a raid, i always tell the leader that i dont know the raid ( even when i've done it 10-20 times. ) If he doesnt let me in, ill start a new lfm, with All Welcome. It almost always works better, and fills quicker then the other group.
( Also if i get refused, have alot of time, and got anoyed, i take another toon, and correct every single error that the leader makes:rolleyes::D

[Claver]

BTW, I never even join "byoh" or "know it dont die" kind of LFMs even if i know the quest. I figured i probably was better off not running with these rude Vet/TRs. It's a game after all.


Give the BYOH "Bring Your Own Healing" description another chance. I post this on LFMs to let people know we will not be waiting for a healer per se. I consider myself very patient and helpful. I do however appreciate it when party members can bring just a few healing/repair potions or wands to get them through the rough spots. I don't demand this on Korthos but by 6th/7th/8th level everyone should have 10 potions for emergencies and if it is clear that no dedicated healer will be joining the party then people should go out and buy some more.

Again, I know lots of people who want to help - BYOH is just code for meeting us half way.

[Zillee]

Give the BYOH "Bring Your Own Healing" description another chance. I post this on LFMs to let people know we will not be waiting for a healer per se. I consider myself very patient and helpful. I do however appreciate it when party members can bring just a few healing/repair potions or wands to get them through the rough spots. I don't demand this on Korthos but by 6th/7th/8th level everyone should have 10 potions for emergencies and if it is clear that no dedicated healer will be joining the party then people should go out and buy some more.

Again, I know lots of people who want to help - BYOH is just code for meeting us half way.

For a long time, I assumed BYOH meant have some kind of healing option other than drinking pots - because having healing pots just seemed obvious if you didn't have other options. I still sorta avoid those groups though because I'm not sure folk would be happy seeing me lag behind while I chug pots to heal up when they're racing ahead.

Are there really players out there who'll step into a quest with no healing options available to them once you get past korthos/harbour?

[Gkar]

My take on this topic, as a newbie, is that it's really important to send a tell to the group leader before you ask to join his group, when you don't know the quest/raid. (Especially true for quests after level 12/14, when doing something wrong can mean put the whole group into trouble). I always ask :"Hello is it ok for a first timer to join your group ?"

Maybe its just me but I'd rather you just join and then let me know. I find tells when I'll getting ready annoying because I'm often doing something (clearing inventory, buffing, going to grab a drink, whatever) and as a result the tells often get ignored. Just hit the LFM :)


BTW, I never even join "byoh" or "know it dont die" kind of LFMs even if i know the quest. I figured i probably was better off not running with these rude Vet/TRs. It's a game after all.

You are probably best to ignore the know it or die lfms...heck I'm a vet and I ignore "don't die" ones because I think it speaks negatively about the LFM poster and I've also noticed that is likely the first person to die.

As for be self sufficient and byoh, consider joining those. Just...bring along a 100 stack of pots (or wands/scrolls if you can use them). I often post those LFMs myself, not because I mind new players, but because I have no intention of waiting 20 minutes for a "healer". (Also from my own experience that actually tends to ENCOURAGE clerics and fvs to join the LFM, while "we just need a healer" LFMs are poison). In most quests I just take the first 5 random people to join and we go. Heck, if it is taking a while to fill, I'll start short handed and mark it "IP". Unless you can't afford the potions because you are new, this type of questing can actually be a lot of fun. Also don't be afraid to ask if you can bring a pocket healer. It's cheaper than pots and often the group leader doesn't mind, especially if you are also topping up others between battles.

[coolpenguin410]

Make a party where you are the leader. When Everyone enters don't ask if it's their first time. Simply Start taking command.

Tell who's casting what, who's running where and let them know what's happening. Put something of this effect in the LFM.

This.

I rarely lead pugs anymore, but when I do, I don't ask for volunteers anymore. I'll say "Bob, can you do this? Joe, can you take care of this?" If they say no, then we adapt, but most of the time people are happy to have clear and defined expectations of what they need to do.

Once I've assigned rolls I ask if any new timers want an explanation. By then I've established that were on our way and rolling and the newbs are less afraid of speaking up.

[Miow]

Anyone can do things with proper direction, given they listen :P i can't stand it when the party leader won't talk in his mic.(I tend to open my big mouth)

[Dark83]

some people don't even put a space after a period (let alone two, as is standard in many professional documents)
<random tangent>
Actually, you're only supposed to have two spaces after a period in monospace fonts. Most typing nowadays is done on computers, and not only is two spaces unnecessary with variable-width fonts, but most programs automatically increase the whitespace after a full stop. (Therefore replicating the effect of breaking up sentences, which was the point of a double-space after a full stop.)

Where monospace fonts were more legible with a double space after a full stop, putting in two spaces in variable-width fonts not only look ugly, but will confuse the program when it's trying to justify or set alignment. (This is because most programs treat single-spaces and double-spaces differently for formatting.)

In any case, I feel proper paragraph breaks are more important than spacing for most forums. :p
</random tangent>


Are there really players out there who'll step into a quest with no healing options available to them once you get past korthos/harbour?
I was in a party where I ended up acting as a "healer" to someone with my CLW and Aid clickies from Korthos. It was ridiculous, he was running around with like 10% of his hp, constantly asking people for heals - in spite of the group having no healers. :rolleyes:

[Claver]

Are there really players out there who'll step into a quest with no healing options available to them once you get past korthos/harbour?

Yes, I'm afraid there are. One of my recent memories involved being one of three rangers in a Tear of Darkhaan (spelling) quest. We had no clerics, I ended up playing healer with a cure wand. The other two rangers hadn't bothered to bring any wands OR any healing potions for themselves.

This is not the only time this has happened; by level 8 it should never happen.

Since that experience I always state BYOH in LFMs