Fighter or Pally PrE tank?

[BrightAsh]

With the whole new intim coming up soon where it will be very necessary to get some proper DPS as well as high intim and AC as a tank... what should one pick, when choosing between fighter StD or pally DoS (not considering some very nice monk/pally builds to intim/hate).

For the sake of usefullness to everyone, let's speculate on a medium player, not a hardcore supergrind with all gear slots maxed out on epics.

I myself am planning to TR my fighter into a 34 point build Pally DoS with about 75 AC and 80 Intim (not überleet geared with all kinds of epic sets, but some decent gear nonetheless, GS, ToD, Hound, Vod, etc. gear).

I chose a DoS instead of a fighter StD, for it's ability to burst damage (thus hate) on a boss to generate loads of aggro in short amounts of time. On the other hand, a fighter's base damage is probably a tad higher which will make getting to level 20 somewhat easier i think. Also a fighter get's load more feats, but has to spend a few more on getting a bigger intim (assuming Cha is dumped). O and i like the self healing aspect of pally's + better saves. To compensate for the feat problem i'll probably take 2 levels fighter (cancelling Pally capstone)

So with the new tanking system coming up. I don't really see much advantage in playing a StD if you want to be a great tank. Am i sorely mistaking? Let me know before I TR :)

[elujin]

i don't have mutch knowlage on this but
paladins seems better at hate genatating but lack feats for all the nice stuff coming out

fighters more feats no class hate gen can take a racial one but so can a pally and i do think they stack.

the pre them selfs i don't know i think its probebly minor in the grand scheme of things:)

[Failedlegend]

Here's the two build I (with some help) came up with...ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter...I'm still working on a Paladin/Monk (All 18/2 btw...maybe 18/1/1 for the monk version) my only issue Is how to calculate a "reasonable" max AC for each version (ie. no epic items, anything else fair game, Self-Buff)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 232
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 15

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 14
Bluff 1 5
Concentration 6 35
Diplomacy 1 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 5
Heal 0 2
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 5 32
Jump 3 7
Listen 0 1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot 0 1
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 3 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I




The Fighter version I haven't actually finished but I got a bit done...mostly it's a question whether to go Dwarf (Higher AC if you can fit the enhancements in & free D-Axe access) or Half-Elf (FvS Dilletante for awesome self-healing) personally I prefer H-Elf due to AP being WAY too tight.

Fighter18/Pally2

Str 16
Dex 14
Con16
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 12

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 Greater Weapon Spec:Slashing

Fighter Feats

1 Greater Weapon Focus:Slashing
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 SF:UMD or B. Sword if not Dwarf


The main issue with Paladin/Monk is that...correct me if I'm wrong...wielding a shield negates your Wis bonus to AC...also Dex/Wis would need to become your focus as opposed to Str/Cha with a side of Con...Dex and Wis only high enough to meet MDB and Lvl 4 spells.

Overall I prefer the Paladin version mostly for its much superior ability to generate hate and the aura helps you as well as any party members...not to mention the various spells and LoH to use

[BrightAsh]

I personally planned more S&B on my 18pally/2fighter. So i chose shield mastery and improved shield bash for the extra bit of DR and Damage, dropping the weapons foc/spec feat.

[Failedlegend]

I personally planned more S&B on my 18pally/2fighter. So i chose shield mastery and improved shield bash for the extra bit of DR and Damage, dropping the weapons foc/spec feat.

Are you referring to my post...I take all of those on my Fighter version and I take the same ones you took on my Pally version

[lord_of_rage]

Here's the two build I (with some help) came up with...ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter...I'm still working on a Paladin/Monk (All 18/2 btw...maybe 18/1/1 for the monk version) my only issue Is how to calculate a "reasonable" max AC for each version (ie. no epic items, anything else fair game, Self-Buff)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 232
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 15

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 14
Bluff 1 5
Concentration 6 35
Diplomacy 1 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 5
Heal 0 2
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 5 32
Jump 3 7
Listen 0 1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot 0 1
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 3 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I




The Fighter version I haven't actually finished but I got a bit done...mostly it's a question whether to go Dwarf (Higher AC if you can fit the enhancements in & free D-Axe access) or Half-Elf (FvS Dilletante for awesome self-healing) personally I prefer H-Elf due to AP being WAY too tight.

Fighter18/Pally2

Str 16
Dex 14
Con16
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 12

Regular Feats

1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 SF: Intim
4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
6 Force of Personality
7 Greater Weapon Spec:Slashing

Fighter Feats

1 Greater Weapon Focus:Slashing
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 IC:Slashing
8 Improved Shield Bash
9 Shield Mastery
10 SF:UMD or B. Sword if not Dwarf


The main issue with Paladin/Monk is that...correct me if I'm wrong...wielding a shield negates your Wis bonus to AC...also Dex/Wis would need to become your focus as opposed to Str/Cha with a side of Con...Dex and Wis only high enough to meet MDB and Lvl 4 spells.

Overall I prefer the Paladin version mostly for its much superior ability to generate hate and the aura helps you as well as any party members...not to mention the various spells and LoH to use

With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.

[Failedlegend]

With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.

The main issue with that is no shield means you can't take advantage of any of this stuff.

- When using a shield, intimidate will get a longer lasting and more effective threat multiplier applied.

- Improved Shield Bash now grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

- Shield Mastery's feat benefit has been changed to, "You are now skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 10% when using a buckler or small shield, 15% when using a large shield, or 20% when using a tower shield."

- B-Swords and D-Axes now benefit from the THF feats when weilding a sheild or nothing in your off-hand and also produce glancing blows.

[BrightAsh]

The main issue with that is no shield means you can't take advantage of any of this stuff.
*snip

- B-Swords and D-Axes now benefit from the THF feats when weilding a sheild or nothing in your off-hand and also produce glancing blows.

Ow reaheaheaaaaly? now there's some usefull info then i will recheck my featselection thanks!


Are you referring to my post...I take all of those on my Fighter version and I take the same ones you took on my Pally version

Yup i was, i didnt see them so i assumed you took another route. Thanks for confirming


With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.

Perhaps, but with the new shield thingies going on, S&B gains some DPS and good extraintim/hate aggro. Plus, i just want to play a fullplated-shield-carying-axe swinging-charismatic dwarf :) I dont necessarily want the superbestbuild around, but a proper build character that i have fun playing with.

[SkullJug]

ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter

Sorry, but personal pet hate. That's not ironic.

[unbongwah]

Fighter18/Pally2
FWIW, here's a dwarf SD tank I'm leveling based on this split:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
(18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 12
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


The pally splash adds a nice boost to survivability while leveling, between higher saves & pally wands (Cure, Resist Energy, etc.); FoP lets me dump WIS and not care about it (in fact the +2 WIS tome is basically a waste). But it is sacrificing the capstone; that may well adversely affect its endgame hate-tanking enough that I'll probably either TR or LR into pure ftr.

Note that I cooked up this build quite a while ago. With the U9 changes to the shield feats, I'm debating adding them to the mix.

[Failedlegend]

Sorry, but personal pet hate. That's not ironic.

Yeah I probably butcher the use of "Ironic" alot...whats the proper term to use there?

[BrightAsh]

FWIW, here's a dwarf SD tank I'm leveling based on this split:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
(18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 12
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


The pally splash adds a nice boost to survivability while leveling, between higher saves & pally wands (Cure, Resist Energy, etc.); FoP lets me dump WIS and not care about it (in fact the +2 WIS tome is basically a waste). But it is sacrificing the capstone; that may well adversely affect its endgame hate-tanking enough that I'll probably either TR or LR into pure ftr.

Note that I cooked up this build quite a while ago. With the U9 changes to the shield feats, I'm debating adding them to the mix.

Yup, that is basicly why i doubt between a 18/2 pally/ftr or a 18/2 ftr/pally. The loads of feats i will miss as main pally that would otherwise increase damage. I dont know if the smites will compensate enough the get enough damage/aggro going on...

[grodon9999]

Both the capstones look really good though with the fighters giving 10% double-strike (10% more hate) and the pally allowing you to bypass devil DR with an Epic Brigand's Cutlass or Choas Blade.

[Failedlegend]

Yup, that is basicly why i doubt between a 18/2 pally/ftr or a 18/2 ftr/pally. The loads of feats i will miss as main pally that would otherwise increase damage. I dont know if the smites will compensate enough the get enough damage/aggro going on...

I fit all the feats quite well IMHO into my Pally18/Fighter2 build a few posts up....also Divine Righteousness definitely compensates for the difference in DPS due to the extra feats.


Both the capstones look really good though with the fighters giving 10% double-strike (10% more hate) and the pally allowing you to bypass devil DR with an Epic Brigand's Cutlass or Choas Blade.

The main issue with the Fighter capstone DS stuff is If I understand double strike correctly it requires an off hand weapon..yes? I don't think a shield counts.

[Syerson]

Why on earth would you take FOP with 2 pali levels. your CHA bonus is already applied to all of your saves. makes it a wasted feat slot.

[unbongwah]

The main issue with the Fighter capstone DS stuff is If I understand double strike correctly it requires an off hand weapon..yes? I don't think a shield counts.
??? Where did you hear that? Doublestrike applies to main hand only, regardless of THF, TWF, or S&B. A big part of why TWF builds complained about the change from +10% atk speed is it nerfed their DPS relative to THF.

Why on earth would you take FOP with 2 pali levels. your CHA bonus is already applied to all of your saves. makes it a wasted feat slot.
FoP uses CHA instead of WIS for Will saves; Divine Grace applies CHA to all saves. They're considered separate effects, so they stack, which lets me dump-stat WIS without totally gimping my Will saves. :) EDIT: so adding a +6 CHA item gets me +3 Reflex & Fort and +6 Will.

[Failedlegend]

??? Where did you hear that? Doublestrike applies to main hand only, regardless of THF, TWF, or S&B. A big part of why TWF builds complained about the change from +10% atk speed is it nerfed their DPS relative to THF.

Oh ok cool sorry i don't play melee toons much

[BananaHat]

Doublestrike only applies to your main hand. it is a straight percentage to strike again with your main hand weapon. Maybe you are thinking of two-weapon fighting.

A side note: improved shield mastery will increase the shield mastery bonus by 5% in the new update. Tower shields would then grant 25% DR on physical attacks. I think it applies after standard DR since it refers to physical damage vulnerability. This is the same way dungeon scaling works.

[Failedlegend]

A side note: improved shield mastery will increase the shield mastery bonus by 5% in the new update. Tower shields would then grant 25% DR on physical attacks. I think it applies after standard DR since it refers to physical damage vulnerability. This is the same way dungeon scaling works.

No its been confirmed it goes like this: 100 Damage dealt - 25% = 75 - 5 Dr/- = 70

[mournbladereigns]

This is the intimitank build I rolled for U9. I went Half-Elf with the Barb Dilletante, which let me squeeze out a 20 base con.

AFter reading the thread on Sword & Board & intimitanking on the Lam forums, I decided to go
12ftr/6pal/2rog Stalwart Defender II

This gives plenty of feats, evasion if I want to pajama style (Though I got a set of Epic calvary plate in bank for him), UMD, and a SA die, the tierI Pal abilities, including the uber Divine Righteousness.
With SDII and Divine righteousness, this build is sitting on +133% threat bonus w/o gear.
When Initiming with a Shield, he'll have +233% threat for 12 seconds, w/o any special gear.

I took intim, with the Half-Elf 2nd shot for extra usefulness.

Went Bastard Sword with Improved Shield bash (the 20% shield bash proc helps with DPS). Went full THF line for glancing bows with BS, plus I can always whip out a falchion if I'm straight DPSing. And took SHield Mastery for the Damage Resistance (which is taken off top).

Debating on whether to take Improved Shield mastery/Combat Expertise. I took WF Slashing and WS/GWS for more DPS with bastard sword or falchion. Plus with Fighter Haste Boost IV, DS I/ESI, and DMI, will have some respectable burst DPS.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

MherlhonFPR IrTreides D'Ilsemere
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 394
Spell Points: 25
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 29
Reflex: 20
Will: 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 11
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 3 7
Diplomacy 6 10
Disable Device 2 3
Haggle 2 4
Heal -1 0
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 6 35
Jump 7 18
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 0 1
Open Lock 4 5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 6
Spot 3 4
Swim 3 8
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 6 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

[stille_nacht]

I personally planned more S&B on my 18pally/2fighter. So i chose shield mastery and improved shield bash for the extra bit of DR and Damage, dropping the weapons foc/spec feat.

unless you plan to max intimidate or something, dont go S&B, your DPS will be too low to maintain hate from bosses.

[BrightAsh]

unless you plan to max intimidate or something, dont go S&B, your DPS will be too low to maintain hate from bosses.

I definetly plan on going max intim (80-ish)

[AylinIsAwesome]

This is the intimitank build I rolled for U9. I went Half-Elf with the Barb Dilletante, which let me squeeze out a 20 base con.

AFter reading the thread on Sword & Board & intimitanking on the Lam forums, I decided to go
12ftr/6pal/2rog Stalwart Defender II

This gives plenty of feats, evasion if I want to pajama style (Though I got a set of Epic calvary plate in bank for him), UMD, and a SA die, the tierI Pal abilities, including the uber Divine Righteousness.
With SDII and Divine righteousness, this build is sitting on +133% threat bonus w/o gear.
When Initiming with a Shield, he'll have +233% threat for 12 seconds, w/o any special gear.

I took intim, with the Half-Elf 2nd shot for extra usefulness.

Went Bastard Sword with Improved Shield bash (the 20% shield bash proc helps with DPS). Went full THF line for glancing bows with BS, plus I can always whip out a falchion if I'm straight DPSing. And took SHield Mastery for the Damage Resistance (which is taken off top).

Debating on whether to take Improved Shield mastery/Combat Expertise. I took WF Slashing and WS/GWS for more DPS with bastard sword or falchion. Plus with Fighter Haste Boost IV, DS I/ESI, and DMI, will have some respectable burst DPS.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

MherlhonFPR IrTreides D'Ilsemere
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 394
Spell Points: 25
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 29
Reflex: 20
Will: 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 11
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 3 7
Diplomacy 6 10
Disable Device 2 3
Haggle 2 4
Heal -1 0
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 6 35
Jump 7 18
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 0 1
Open Lock 4 5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 6
Spot 3 4
Swim 3 8
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 6 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I




I was thinking about a build similar to that for newer players, but I finally decided that 7 Paladin was more useful than 2 Rogue, so 12 Fighter/7 Paladin/1 Rogue in the end.

You lose Evasion, but you wouldn't be having that in fullplate anyway, and there just aren't any good epic robes or light armour for a tank to wear. 7 Paladin however would give you another +1 to all saves and another +1 AC from Aura enhancements, and Rogue 1 is still good for UMD, and 1d6+3 SA for when you don't have aggro.

EDIT: I didn't notice a Paladin PrE in there. Either HotD1 or KotC1 would be useful.