why i have leave elite shroud

[Camarde]

I was on a elite shourd this night, just for fun, i have done elite shroud a long time ago (with nearly all my alts).
I was on my cleric Immortel-1 (2rogue/2pala/16cleric).
Every thing goes well until part 3-4.
I was regenning mana in pool in part 3 then run to portail to go to part 4 and all the group have clear trash, other cleric was close to 0 mana, boss was coming realling soon and i said ' why didnt u wait me to regen mana?".
They accuse me ' it s not time to craft, craft at end...." and i was just regening mana in part 3 pool.
If u do a elite shourd, and dont have the patience to wait ur cleric regening mana, then accuse him to being crafting, u have missed something!
I have said "if u cant wait the cleric, it s that u dont need me, bb" and leave.
Some people are upset about that.
I have no regret.
And will never have.

PQ: in fact i hate to be rude, for me the game is have fun, be good, and be NICE! i could have easily just go on, drink a lot of pots and do it well until end....... but people dont wait, then accuse me, is too much to just say "nvm i go on", the only thing hard (not really hard but ressoucres intensive) in elite shroud is healing part, have a few respect for u healer that accept to join ur elite pug sounds a basis for me !

For ur blacklist : Uman-1 / Menta-1 / Immortel-1 / Amnu / Vieuxsage / Bhouda / Amelune / Camarde / Immortel / Malfonction .... and a few other

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It takes about well under 30 seconds to regenerate SP in the pool... sounds like you were behind a lot longer that that.

And good you abandoned and entire group for the words of a couple people, I'm sure you have made lots of friends.

[Camarde]

It takes about well under 30 seconds to regenerate SP in the pool... sounds like you were behind a lot longer that that.

And good you abandoned and entire group for the words of a couple people, I'm sure you have made lots of friends.
It seems that the 30 second to regen mana was too long for them to wait so yes i m happy to have make friend, and ty for ur really good comment.

[Keybreaker]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.

[Camarde]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.
Useless comment imo

[NinjaCereal]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.

^this^

[grandeibra]

+1 keybreaker.

I have never understood why people don't do this.

And regardless. Op, leaving a raid bc of comments of a couple is beyond lame. Even in your subjective version of what happened you come off as unfriendly

[Camarde]

+1 keybreaker.

I have never understood why people don't do this.

And regardless. Op, leaving a raid bc of comments of a couple is beyond lame. Even in your subjective version of what happened you come off as unfriendly

They all have not wait, and it was too late for comment when ur facing the part4 boss fight, specially when u are healing.
It s not subjective at all, doing a elite shroud and not waiting ur cleric to be rdy before rush in part4, is definitly something bad.
I had to sell repair and regen 400sp and they couldnt wait that, in a ELITE pug shroud.

[chrisgina39]

would have done the same well i would have done something much much worse but sounds like they where ________

never make a healer mad

[Haikusamurai]

okay, first off, 30 seconds to regen in the pool? maybe if you just did some light buffing yeah, but not when you are putting out a ton of buffs. Second, buff before you shrine? what a jerk thing to suggest. Oh, you don't need any buffs at all, but I do. So selfish on your part there, but then who cares if the cleric or favoredsoul gets to keep his buffs. I have left plenty of runs with my healer when people are zerging, or just plain being jerks, a healer is not something to toss around and not care about.

[chrisgina39]

theres a fine like between annoying a healer and annoying a healer

[Dark-Gulrak]

for the people (non-WF),

Hey WF are people too! .. we just want to enslave the human race, that's all :D



and Elves


and Dwarves

and Horcs

and Helfs .. no wait .. now those .. those aren't people, they are Martians in disguise

and drow ..

Halflings cant be enslaved sorry :confused:

[jdawg70]

Sorry, but how much SP were you regenning? Part 3 is just a lil healing (ok maybe a little more on elite).
But you or another cleric should be by the pool anyways healing ppl as they run in.
There is a shrine close by as well. Shouldn't take very long at all. bad form on there part for leaving you.
Bad form on your part for quitting. A bad Cleric rep gets around very fast (faster than you can regen SP).

[Keybreaker]

Hey WF are people too! .. we just want to enslave the human race, that's all :D

I only wish Harry would cast Hold Rohobos instead of Hold Person... I'd never give out FoM... NEVER!

:)

[Camarde]

Sorry, but how much SP were you regenning? Part 3 is just a lil healing (ok maybe a little more on elite).
But you or another cleric should be by the pool anyways healing ppl as they run in.
There is a shrine close by as well. Shouldn't take very long at all. bad form on there part for leaving you.
Bad form on your part for quitting. A bad Cleric rep gets around very fast (faster than you can regen SP).
And so what was i slow or fast? did i take time or not? did i have good reason or not?
---> would u go in part 4 elite pug shroud without ur cleric rdy?

[donfilibuster]

Chances are OP is right and the shroud leader started without waiting, which could have been a delay of mere seconds.

Usually the cleric buffs then shrines, but then self buff and go to the pool which dun take long.
While that happens the group gathers for haste and begin zoning in BUT dun start the fight.

The shroud leader checks if everyone is in and since the healer is by then moving to the portal they begin with the trash.
The healer, however, has only so much time to spend in the pool and must tell the group to wait if there's delay.

It is still the leader's duty to make sure ppl is rdy for part 4, the leader could have asked the OP to hurry up.
On the other side, the OP could have told them in chat to wait a bit.
After all, part 4 is a team effort.

[alcosebahair]

Chances are OP is right and the shroud leader started without waiting, which could have been a delay of mere seconds.

Usually the cleric buffs then shrines, but then self buff and go to the pool which dun take long.
While that happens the group gathers for haste and begin zoning in BUT dun start the fight.

The shroud leader checks if everyone is in and since the healer is by then moving to the portal they begin with the trash.
The healer, however, has only so much time to spend in the pool and must tell the group to wait if there's delay.

It is still the leader's duty to make sure ppl is rdy for part 4, the leader could have asked the OP to hurry up.
On the other side, the OP could have told them in chat to wait a bit.
After all, part 4 is a team effort.

i agree with this guy!:) and i agree with the OP in some ways, and i also disagree a bit in some ways.. yes, they should wait:) but imho, i repeat imho, the only buffs needed by cleric for part 4 is fom and resist fire... 50 sp max to be used, since you will just heal from afar:) but also, if the other healer has 0 sp left and attrae is still coming, i agree that no point in healing it, number 1: you are 16 cleric only so no mass heal... and number 2: if they drain all the sp of cleric 1, then that means THAT group is not that good, meaning why waste sp pots:) but for me, you should have let them die instead of recalling and leaving group:) ehehe but still, play the game for fun, if you fail, its a lesson learned:) so chill out and relax:)

[sweez]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.

This. I *never* understood refilling mana in part 3. Just blow all your mana on people before shrining (if you're out of mana by the end of part 3, even with 5 minutes of the wall, reroll), then shrine and buff yourself. If giving fire res/fom to yourself significantly decreases your mana pool, reroll.

If I'm on my FvS I'll just jump into part 4 as soon as possible and hope other people follow me, who cares if we're missing an arcane or a divine for the trash.

[Krag]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.

This.
Refilling mana in pt3 is a waste of everyones time.

[PNellesen]

Chances are OP is right and the shroud leader started without waiting, which could have been a delay of mere seconds.

Usually the cleric buffs then shrines, but then self buff and go to the pool which dun take long.

While that happens the group gathers for haste and begin zoning in BUT dun start the fight.

The shroud leader checks if everyone is in and since the healer is by then moving to the portal they begin with the trash.
The healer, however, has only so much time to spend in the pool and must tell the group to wait if there's delay.

It is still the leader's duty to make sure ppl is rdy for part 4, the leader could have asked the OP to hurry up.
On the other side, the OP could have told them in chat to wait a bit.
After all, part 4 is a team effort.

^^ This.

In Bold is exactly how I do it - buff party before shrining, then self-buff, then hit pool. Knowing the trick to fast regen in the pool helps speed it up, but still - is it going to KILL them to wait an extra minute or 2 or 3? (We know it kills them if they DON'T...)

[ToKu]

Useless comment imo

Translation - someone does not agree with me thus must be wrong!

Yeah your on the fast track to alot of peoples "friends to remember" list. ;P

[sweez]

^^ This.

In Bold is exactly how I do it - buff party before shrining, then self-buff, then hit pool. Knowing the trick to fast regen in the pool helps speed it up, but still - is it going to KILL them to wait an extra minute or 2 or 3? (We know it kills them if they DON'T...)

Please explain how casting fire res and fom on yourself without regaining that mana significantly affects your ability to heal effectively in part 4.

[Tarnoc]

something smells fishy.....

you took so long the other cleric blew all his mana?

that is the one thing that makes no sence here.....was the other cleric lvl 6 cleric or something?

[ToKu]

something smells fishy.....

you took so long the other cleric blew all his mana?

that is the one thing that makes no sence here.....was the other cleric lvl 6 cleric or something?

Either that or the raid was fail, either the other cleric was almost OOM after initial trash, or he took so long that a round had already happened... because he said that the boss was just comming down.

[lugoman]

You should have just went in and healed what you could with what sp (and not wasted pots) you had and just let the party wipe. Same effect but you wouldnt have looked petty. Maybe they would have learned a lesson this way.

[stille_nacht]

okay, first off, 30 seconds to regen in the pool? maybe if you just did some light buffing yeah, but not when you are putting out a ton of buffs. Second, buff before you shrine? what a jerk thing to suggest. Oh, you don't need any buffs at all, but I do. So selfish on your part there, but then who cares if the cleric or favoredsoul gets to keep his buffs. I have left plenty of runs with my healer when people are zerging, or just plain being jerks, a healer is not something to toss around and not care about.

swim into the wall where the slope meets the floor, 1500 sp in a few seconds :P

[Logicman69]

something smells fishy.....

you took so long the other cleric blew all his mana?

that is the one thing that makes no sence here.....was the other cleric lvl 6 cleric or something?

That's what I'm wondering. If they are at that point, there is really nothing the OP could have done anyway because the portal is closed. IMO the party leader was at fault for not waiting for ALL party members to zone in before starting the fight. Though I do think the OP may have handled it badly. I would love to hear the other side of this issue from the Party Leader or another member of the run.

[Hutoth]

would u go in part 4 elite pug shroud without ur cleric rdy?
no

[jwdaniels]

Do you not have a SP item? Buff everyone, shrine (with spell point item equipped) and then buff yourself and cast group buffs. I've never needed to go back for mana on my 16 cleric, nor have I ever run out of mana in part 3 - I barely even use mana in part 3, just the occasional heal as needed.

EDIT: And the reason why you unequip your SP item is to either vorpal trash or equip a devotion item/ardor clicky if needed. Otherwise, keep it equipped at least until you burn through all of the bonus SP.

[Thriand]

I've never in all my shrouds seen someone use the pool in part 3 to get mana back regardless of difficulty since there is a shrine available. It is most likely that they saw you shrine and assumed you were ready, and not some big conspiracy to be rude to a healer.

On a side note if you have some 400 sp worth of mana to regen on a cleric after shrining then you may be over buffing a bit, contrary to popular belief you don't actually need spawn screen in the shroud.

[voodoogroves]

I've never in all my shrouds seen someone use the pool in part 3 to get mana back regardless of difficulty since there is a shrine available. It is most likely that they saw you shrine and assumed you were ready, and not some big conspiracy to be rude to a healer.

On a side note if you have some 400 sp worth of mana to regen on a cleric after shrining then you may be over buffing a bit, contrary to popular belief you don't actually need spawn screen in the shroud.

Yes on overbuffing, but I often use and see others use the pool. It takes very little time if you know what you're doing.


Here's the deal though, and this is meant for the OP:


You are part of a team. You may be filling a specific role that is only shared with one other, but you're still part of the team. Expecting the group to wait for you and run things on your schedule makes YOU THE ELITIST. I say this with capped characters of every disposition.



I also believe this started when multiple people made assumptions, then when someone noticed things didn't match an assumption instead of communicating openly and pleasantly were immediately indignant at one or the other party for not doing what they assumed they should do.

State your plans and communicate better and all this goes away.

[Sirea]

I may have missed it in all the rambling and whining, but OP can I have your character names? I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group, only for you to find out I'm not going to kiss the ground you walk on so you can waste the party's time by swimming around in a pool while we're fighting the boss. Kthxbai.

[painindaguild]

Honestly no idea why uve came to the forums with this. if the group had such an enormous lack of communication that they cannot wait for their healers and then also suspect them to be crafting (on an elite run. lol)
can only conclude that ur leader didnt lead.




I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group,

have fun on ur "zerg" of 30 minutes.

[Bloodstealer]

I may have missed it in all the rambling and whining, but OP can I have your character names? I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group, only for you to find out I'm not going to kiss the ground you walk on so you can waste the party's time by swimming around in a pool while we're fighting the boss. Kthxbai.

Now this post I had to laff at :D

Maybe he was just a learner swimmer and his armbands kept slipping...
or... maybe a giant squid had grabbed his foot and was holding him back from getting to the portal... it happens you know, really it does :)

[PNellesen]

Please explain how casting fire res and fom on yourself without regaining that mana significantly affects your ability to heal effectively in part 4.

While I might cast a couple others that probably don't have significant benefit, I do see your point. However, I like to have every single point of SP I can get before entering Part 4. The cleric I have at Shroud level right now isn't the strongest character (he was my very first) so he needs all the help he can get. He has yet to run out of SP in a Shroud, but there have been a couple pretty close calls...

[Veileira]

I may have missed it in all the rambling and whining, but OP can I have your character names? I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group, only for you to find out I'm not going to kiss the ground you walk on so you can waste the party's time by swimming around in a pool while we're fighting the boss. Kthxbai.

Character names are in the OP.

Elite shroud is usually a zerg? I've only done pugs on normal, some zerg some not, but I'd think elite might be a bit different and if one healer is at 0 sp then waiting 30s for the other healer to get to full may possibly be a good idea. To then accuse the healer of crafting just because they're not fast enough for you... is petty.

So the OP responded to pettiness with pettiness. Have you never done that? Of course not, even in the face of false accusations and sheer vitriol, you are above all that.

Let me get this straight, people are objecting to a cleric dropping after being insulted when the situation was already tough, and the OP should have pretended to heal while letting the party wipe, just to not look bad to people who had already been insulting?

Remind me never to play on Ghallanda, I like my drama honest.

[alcosebahair]

btw, just pop in my head... when you look at the map... the water area and crafting zone in part 3 are very very far from each other.., so, if they look at the map and saw you there, then maybe... you know:) hehe and 16 cleric levels only for elite shroud meaning no mass heal, maybe around1.5k-1.7k sp depending on gear... no way imho, could you have healed or saved the party without using a single pot:) also the party leaders fault in a way i think, for taking a 16 cleric levels for an elite shroud:) but thats just imho, you may or may not agree with me hehe

[wax_on_wax_off]

Sorry, but how much SP were you regenning? Part 3 is just a lil healing (ok maybe a little more on elite).
But you or another cleric should be by the pool anyways healing ppl as they run in.
There is a shrine close by as well. Shouldn't take very long at all. bad form on there part for leaving you.
Bad form on your part for quitting. A bad Cleric rep gets around very fast (faster than you can regen SP).

Often people head straight into part 3 from part 2 without shrining and go through part 3 with only a little bit of SP to buff at end and heal people running water, if you misjudge that SP then you could find yourself shrining to be able to buff the party properly.

Not sure what happened, but a possibility.

[Bloodstealer]

hehe and 16 cleric levels only for elite shroud meaning no mass heal, maybe around1.5k-1.7k sp depending on gear... no way imho, could you have healed or saved the party without using a single pot:) also the party leaders fault in a way i think, for taking a 16 cleric levels for an elite shroud:) but thats just imho, you may or may not agree with me hehe

No I dont agree - Maybe you should have tried running Shrouds when the level cap was 16 anyway.... pots perhaps but nothing to overly resource hungry.. imho

[Micron]

I may have missed it in all the rambling and whining, but OP can I have your character names? I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group, only for you to find out I'm not going to kiss the ground you walk on so you can waste the party's time by swimming around in a pool while we're fighting the boss. Kthxbai.

The OP wasn't running a zerg Shroud, he was healing a random elite Shroud pug, presumably with people he didn't know and wanted to make sure he had full mana for part 4. Your post has no relevance to the topic.

[Moltier]

"The healer fault!"
Is this thread really became this? 400mana is overbuffing? Fom 25 fire res 15... in a raid. Count.
Rest after buffs? Yes works, no problem here, but swimming also an option, coz after rest, you have to rebuff yourself, and ask the arcanes for those buffs (which takes time again). Some people may dont know how to gain mana fast there, but if you know, it takes seconds to fill your mana.

[Zharfie]

Which arcane buffs do you need as a healer in shroud? all you need is fire and fom, seriously... just use the shrine.

I would've enjoyed the wipe, not chucking a single potion ;)

... I wonder if this was the elite shroud pug I saw and told the leader that I wish my healer was off timer at that time :(

[Daggaz]

OP is entirely rude and shoots down the vast majority of people who are disagreeing with him without thought or hesitation; frankly I am wondering why he even posted in the first place. Did you honestly expect unanimous support for your actions? Thats gotta suck real hard for everybody else in that group who were just doing their jobs, I know I would be pretty upset.

[phillymiket]

I also don't like to shrine because people don't wait for others to shrine before mass-buffing and then I'm wasting others SP for my own personal mass buffs and asking for the other counterparts buffs (arcane or divine) after they've done that bit already.

I also find that people do the same things on hard and elite shrouds that they do on normal zerg-it-out, don't stop - don't think shrouds.
Like jump ahead before the whole party is ready. Like not wait for buffs and bard songs or wait for casters to re-fill their mana.

Funny that it's most often not people with SP bars but people who depend on them who do this. :)
I've never seen a sorc, wiz, cleric or FVS kill Kesquik before their mana bar was filled on a non-normal shroud.

(disclaimer - many people are much much better than I and probably can do elite shroud with a half filled bar. I can't and one should probably assume an unknown pug'er can't either)

Still, I wouldn't drop a group half-way through no matter the situation.

[Moltier]

Which arcane buffs do you need as a healer in shroud? all you need is fire and fom, seriously... just use the shrine.

I would've enjoyed the wipe, not chucking a single potion ;)

... I wonder if this was the elite shroud pug I saw and told the leader that I wish my healer was off timer at that time :(

GH, Rage, haste...
Perhaps its unimportant for you, but i like these. +5 reflex, +20HP is good even for a healbot, and its really usefull for a melee cleric. So seriously, just wait that 5 extra sec.
Shrine, if you need ages to fill your mana, or just lazy. In an elite pug Shroud, i would take all the usefull buffs.

[andbr22]

"I don't know what is dumber":
- Cleric that shrined, buffed and wanted to refill his (around 1/4 or 1/5 of SP i think).
- Leader who didn't wait for cleric and rushed to part 4, and got his team butt kicked (by trash).

Beside if they are ripped by trash to 0 mana the raid would probably fail anyway at Harry.
On the other hand I don't know for sure how long they waited for you. If there happens to be doorbell, boiling water, quick bio on the way they could wait quite a bit for you (just don't take it to youself OP, it is an internet and it is quite easy to coloralize a bit).

[GreatOldOne]

I wouldn't quit Shroud because of some stupid comments, but I can feel at least a bit understanding for the OP. Sometimes I wonder in Shroud if people are worth healing, but usually these people are only a part of group and for the sake of the rest I keep healing.


I may have missed it in all the rambling and whining, but OP can I have your character names? I regularly run/participate in zerg Shrouds and I wouldn't want to inconvenience you by letting you in my group, only for you to find out I'm not going to kiss the ground you walk on so you can waste the party's time by swimming around in a pool while we're fighting the boss. Kthxbai.

Sirea can I have your character names please. Just so I can avoid bringing my healers to a group with you. And you don't need to ask. My healers are named Hyrkan and Soulforged-1. You don't need to kiss the ground healers are walking on, but with a comment like that I expect you to not need one.

And to the opinion that a cleric16 can't heal in a shroud because he has no Mass Heal and only 1600-1700 sp. Never heard of the fact that Shroud was done on elite when cap was 16 and noone had Greensteel because the raid was new? Maybe the healers were better back then or the manasinks today are worse.

[voodoogroves]

Let me get this straight, people are objecting to a cleric dropping after being insulted when the situation was already tough, and the OP should have pretended to heal while letting the party wipe, just to not look bad to people who had already been insulting?

Remind me never to play on Ghallanda, I like my drama honest.

Not my position. Mine is two wrongs don't make a right. Stepping into a 12-person raid with the idea that you're the most important person there and everyone needs to wait for you is arrogance. Better is to understand your role in the GROUP and act like a member of the group. If the group is headed in a different direction, whoever recognizes it has the responsibility to speak up and communicate.

The most valuable thing you can give someone is time. It sounds like this started off with at least a few people not willing to spend the time communicating with each other. The OP isn't blameless nor solely at fault.

[paulyne]

i can totally understand the op
its beside the point how long it takes to take the pool/shrine or how much mana he spent on buffing or even if its an elite or normal shroud... ppl need to wait for the healer. happens all the time that ppl just rush to part 4 and start the fight and the half the folks dont even have buffs. if you want to be healed you need to check where the healer is. simple as that.

and its one thing if you are doing an elite shroud and you get lag and someone dies or something else happens which is nobodys fault and you need to take manapots because of that.. but i wouldnt take pots because they couldnt wait another min. for me to regen mana. and you can bet that he would have needed to take some because of that

and to everyone who is saying how awesome they are and how they dont even need buffs and solo elite shroud:
you folks need to distinguish between guild runs and pugs. in a guild run you need half the buffs and can even do shroud elite without shrining at all.. but in a pug you need to ensure that everyone is fully buffed and has full mana, because there are even shroud pugs on normal that regularly fail on ghallanda... i know its crazy and i know a lot of ppl havent seen a failed shroud in a long time (in europe i havent seen one fail in 1 year or so) - but pugs here are not as reliable as your guildmates and for the sake of waisting pots and time, just check if everyone is ready before running to the next part

[Lorien_the_First_One]

okay, first off, 30 seconds to regen in the pool? maybe if you just did some light buffing yeah, but not when you are putting out a ton of buffs. Second, buff before you shrine? what a jerk thing to suggest. Oh, you don't need any buffs at all, but I do. So selfish on your part there, but then who cares if the cleric or favoredsoul gets to keep his buffs. I have left plenty of runs with my healer when people are zerging, or just plain being jerks, a healer is not something to toss around and not care about.

If you buff and then shrine you only have to get the handful of SP back required in buffing yourself. Should only take 10 seconds tops.

And if it takes you more than 30 seconds to regen in the pool from 0SP you don't know how to do it. Ask a more experienced person to show you the next time you are in ths shroud

[alcosebahair]

btw, just pop in my head... when you look at the map... the water area and crafting zone in part 3 are very very far from each other.., so, if they look at the map and saw you there, then maybe... you know:) hehe and 16 cleric levels only for elite shroud meaning no mass heal, maybe around1.5k-1.7k sp depending on gear... no way imho, could you have healed or saved the party without using a single pot:) also the party leaders fault in a way i think, for taking a 16 cleric levels for an elite shroud:) but thats just imho, you may or may not agree with me hehe

btw, i would like to quote myself, i didnt say a cleric 16 cant heal it, i said " no way imho, could you have healed or saved the party without using a single pot:) " and comparing from before and now..., as what i heard from the most veteran of the players i know, shroud before was like tod when it first came out or like echrono now, and they needed scrolls of cure mods and some pots to do so and maybe just maybe a good group where 2-3 puggers may be in:) and also imho, dont take this personal as it is my opinion, but players from before are way better than players now(including me as i just played this game a year ago).. and you guys should know the quality of pugs nowadays:) but its my opinion:) hehe=p

[Pape_27]

okay, first off, 30 seconds to regen in the pool? maybe if you just did some light buffing yeah, but not when you are putting out a ton of buffs. Second, buff before you shrine? what a jerk thing to suggest. Oh, you don't need any buffs at all, but I do. So selfish on your part there, but then who cares if the cleric or favoredsoul gets to keep his buffs. I have left plenty of runs with my healer when people are zerging, or just plain being jerks, a healer is not something to toss around and not care about.

actually, there is a method to regen sp very quickly in part 3. If you are jumping up and down, you are doing it wrong. Swim underwater and find the dividing line between the ramp and the floor and hit that spot along the wall, your sp regens very fast.

But regardless, some of the other posters have said it. Buff everyone first, then shrine. The only mana you need to regen is the small amount you expend buffing yourself.

[Krag]

I am curious, is the "fast refilling" wai or is it an exploit?

[dredre9987]

swim into the wall where the slope meets the floor, 1500 sp in a few seconds :P


QFT I can fill a 2600sp wiz in less than 20 seconds.

[toukai]

I am curious, is the "fast refilling" wai or is it an exploit?

Its the same exploit that run across the corner in the part 5, but more faster :)

[Krag]

Its the same exploit that run across the corner in the part 5, but more faster :)

I have a peculiar feeling that the "corner" in pt3 is not supposed to exist. Might be wrong though.

[phillymiket]

But regardless, some of the other posters have said it. Buff everyone first, then shrine. The only mana you need to regen is the small amount you expend buffing yourself.

And then stop an arcane and ask for GH and Rage or stop a devine and ask for FOM and DW or just pop over to the pool and refill while people pause at the portal a second.

I'd rather refill. It's almost as quick. I don't have to have someone recast spells making them go in a little short on SP.

Normal? Whatever, I'll catch up, go without a buff or two or go short-barred.

Elite? I'm taking any and all precautions.

The real point is, if you are in an Elite Shroud pug and the healers are taking too long to re-gen do you just go in and start the fight anyway because they should be quicker?

Doesn't it take longer to wipe and reform then to wait or even show someone how to re-gen their mana?

[Nich]

I would have done the same as the OP.

Waiting 2 or 3 minutes for your healer to rebuff himself after having used the shrine then to use the pool should not be a problem at all.

[Krag]

And then stop an arcane and ask for GH and Rage or stop a devine and ask for FOM and DW or just pop over to the pool and refill while people pause at the portal a second.

GH - use clicky
Rage - drink a pot
DW - useless
FOM - 25mana
----
total mana cost 25

Sorry, this does not sound like a big deal to me.

[justagame]

I've only heard one side of the story, but I sympathize with the cleric OP a little here:

1. On an elite pug shroud, I'm going to part 4 on full mana, period. No matter how little down I am, I am going back to pool.

2. On an elite run, it's up to the leader to not start part 4 without everybody in, especially the healers. It's funny how clerics are out of sight, out of mind, until you need them. Either the cleric was needed right away or he wasn't. If was needed, why didn't they wait? This is related to something I see all the time in quests (non-shroud) -- you blow your remaining mana buffing everyone before you shrine, then while you're shrining, eveyone takes off. By the time you shrine and rebuff (even on the run), everyone is gone -- only to give you **** for falling behind, blaming you for having the nerve to shrine. Unless you're on a zerg, this isn't a cool move, but it happens all the time.

3. As others have pointed out, you can easily tell from the map if someone lagging behind is pooling or crafting. Unfortunately, I've run into a few people who are really quick on the trigger when it comes to accusations during a quest. If the cleric isn't there, ask what's holding him up. When you throw down an unsubstantiated accusation in front of the entire raid, you put that person on the defensive.

Without knowing any more, this sounds like a case of a cleric who was probably a little slow/inefficient refilling his mana, a party that stupidly started part 4 without the healers on board, and a leader who was incosiderate and pulled a d__k move with that quick accusation.

[PopeJual]

If you buff and then shrine you only have to get the handful of SP back required in buffing yourself. Should only take 10 seconds tops.

And if it takes you more than 30 seconds to regen in the pool from 0SP you don't know how to do it. Ask a more experienced person to show you the next time you are in ths shroud

I actually never shrine in part 3 on my FvS or on my Wizard. It takes longer to run to the shrine, wait to rest and then rebuff and run to the pool to top off than it does to just spend the extra few seconds in the pool, swimming at the wall.

I do see people sometimes jumping up and down in the pool, though, so I know that not everyone knows the faster way to refill (and I do always at least *try* to show them how to swim at the wall).

[PopeJual]

1) GH - use clicky
2) Rage - drink a pot
3) DW - useless
4) FOM - 25mana
----
total mana cost 25

Sorry, this does not sound like a big deal to me.

1) How many level 16-18 Clerics have a GH clicky? I expect that everyone should eventually have a GH clicky from Amrath, but I'd also expect that most people will be capped (possibly for a while) before they happen to get one.
2) I've occasionally seen a Shroud part 4 that lasts longer than the 30 seconds that a pot gives you...
3) agreed
4) I ended a part 4 with 1 spell point once. It's only happened once, but that last mass heal kept 4 or 5 people from dying. I want my blue bar to be FULL when I go into part 4 in a PUG.

I'm not going to demand that everyone run at my pace and I'm certainly not a flower sniffer, but if you can't wait a few extra seconds for one of your healers to top off in a PUG, then you can enjoy spending an extra half hour on a shroud after that one fails when the cleric gets ****y and recalls. The OP went overboard on his reaction as far as I'm concerned, but I'm sure as hell not going to drink a pot in part 4 if people are trying to rush me and keep me from topping off for free at the end of part 3.

[PopeJual]

I am curious, is the "fast refilling" wai or is it an exploit?

I actually got reported for "exploiting" in the Shroud when I tried to show a new player this method and I can say that I did not get a free DDO vacation.

[UnderwearModel]

I wrote a thread like this in March 2010 on this very server.

March 31 Shroud Run (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=240508)

OP, you are not alone in these circumstances.

[Braegan]

Sounds like some over buffing. I follow the trinity of buffs for shroud: Fire, Freedom, Poison. Anything else is gravy and all that can and should be covered by a ranger.

That aside both parties were in the wrong IMO. Another case of lack of communication I'm sure.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Some guilds particularly raiding guilds regularly run Elite shrouds and may be used to requiring their members to be self sufficient and race from part 3 to part 4 with minimal if any buffs. Perhaps that was the case in this run, perhaps not.

To the OP, did the lfm give you any indication of the type of run besides being elite? Were you listening to the group or reading party chat? Usually the party leader would have said something toward the end of part 2 or in part 3 to indicate/remind folks what the plan was.

As others have stated, pass out buffs, then shrine. After you shrine, hit yourself with fire and sonic resist and protect, fom, and maybe stalwart pact, that should be a very small amount of mana used. Yes it's nice to have a gh clickie for yourself, I would also hope with your build that you could UMD a scroll as well. If the group was waiting, as a healer I would have then used the pool as in an elite run you want all your mana to start with. However, if I saw the group had already started and especially if the other healer was almost out of mana (how the heck are they out of mana after just killing trash is a whole other story), I would just jump right in.

Try to be more pro-active in the future, and ask how they plan on running things. Also when part 3 ends stand by the portal and pass out buffs and go shrine as quick as possible, don't lolligag around. The crafting altar and the pool are apart from one another, if you were accused of crafting, I would suspect either they were just stating that to give you a quick reminder to get going as you were not refilling mana quick, or they looked at the mini map and saw you were at the altar, not the fountain pool.

Somehow, I have the feeling you are no longer reading or will be replying to this thread, as that first reply of yours appears to indicate your outlook on things.

P.S. Thanks to those who posted about the hot spot to get mana, never knew about it, although aside from when shroud first came out, I don't recall the last time I used the fountain to regen mana for part 3.

[Razcar]

I think the OP should be commended just for bringing a healer into an Elite Shroud pug at all. I wouldn't do that in a million years here on the US service, seeing the amount of players/characters in Shroudest Spine pugs (on Normal) that seem to be built and played by intoxicated geese.

[Krag]

1) How many level 16-18 Clerics have a GH clicky? I expect that everyone should eventually have a GH clicky from Amrath, but I'd also expect that most people will be capped (possibly for a while) before they happen to get one.
2) I've occasionally seen a Shroud part 4 that lasts longer than the 30 seconds that a pot gives you...
3) agreed
4) I ended a part 4 with 1 spell point once. It's only happened once, but that last mass heal kept 4 or 5 people from dying. I want my blue bar to be FULL when I go into part 4 in a PUG.

I'm not going to demand that everyone run at my pace and I'm certainly not a flower sniffer, but if you can't wait a few extra seconds for one of your healers to top off in a PUG, then you can enjoy spending an extra half hour on a shroud after that one fails when the cleric gets ****y and recalls. The OP went overboard on his reaction as far as I'm concerned, but I'm sure as hell not going to drink a pot in part 4 if people are trying to rush me and keep me from topping off for free at the end of part 3.

1. Planar Gird is ML9 item. Undergeared toons have no business in elite raids underlevel.
2. Drink a second pot between heals.
4. Use Archivists Necklace if you are concerned about 25 mana. Or Twisted Talisman. It's not like you are going to use all your mana clickies during an actual fight anyway.

Anyway the time it takes to beat trash is more than enough to refill 25 mana.

[Bloodstealer]

btw, i would like to quote myself, i didnt say a cleric 16 cant heal it, i said " no way imho, could you have healed or saved the party without using a single pot:) " and comparing from before and now..., as what i heard from the most veteran of the players i know, shroud before was like tod when it first came out or like echrono now, and they needed scrolls of cure mods and some pots to do so and maybe just maybe a good group where 2-3 puggers may be in:) and also imho, dont take this personal as it is my opinion, but players from before are way better than players now(including me as i just played this game a year ago).. and you guys should know the quality of pugs nowadays:) but its my opinion:) hehe=p

Hmm is your full stop key broke or something "." tends to work better than :) for grammatical purposes.... just saying.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I am curious, is the "fast refilling" wai or is it an exploit?

Any time you cross a barrier in the pool it ticks. It also ticks if you wait long enough. This is true of the pools in 3 & 5 and the trees in 2. The mechanic has been unchanged since the release of Shroud and people quickly figure out which are the fastest ways to use each pool so I assume its WAI.

If its not WAI, its cheese at best, not an exploit, as it doesn't give you any of the advantages mentioned it the famous KK thread.

[Bloodstealer]

1) How many level 16-18 Clerics have a GH clicky? I expect that everyone should eventually have a GH clicky from Amrath, but I'd also expect that most people will be capped (possibly for a while) before they happen to get one.
2) I've occasionally seen a Shroud part 4 that lasts longer than the 30 seconds that a pot gives you...
3) agreed
4) I ended a part 4 with 1 spell point once. It's only happened once, but that last mass heal kept 4 or 5 people from dying. I want my blue bar to be FULL when I go into part 4 in a PUG.

I'm not going to demand that everyone run at my pace and I'm certainly not a flower sniffer, but if you can't wait a few extra seconds for one of your healers to top off in a PUG, then you can enjoy spending an extra half hour on a shroud after that one fails when the cleric gets ****y and recalls. The OP went overboard on his reaction as far as I'm concerned, but I'm sure as hell not going to drink a pot in part 4 if people are trying to rush me and keep me from topping off for free at the end of part 3.

Curious... why would you wait till Amrath for ur GH clicky when Xorian Cipher drops the Planar Gird - i normally try and get that sorted at lvl 6 or 7

[Thrudh]

The real point is, if you are in an Elite Shroud pug and the healers are taking too long to re-gen do you just go in and start the fight anyway because they should be quicker?

I don't like the OP's tone either, and guess he's leaving out something. but I have to agree 100% with this... You have to be a real idiot to start Part 4 in an elite PUG without checking to make sure everyone is there (especially one of the healers)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Curious... why would you wait till Amrath for ur GH clicky when Xorian Cipher drops the Planar Gird - i normally try and get that sorted at lvl 6 or 7

/grumbles

As if I could pull one

[Bloodstealer]

/grumbles

As if I could pull one

Eeerm sorry no exploit to help ya there, just good old fashioned lucky loot rolls..... wait should'nt we be discussing this in the *" this game is too hard and too much grind for nice loot - nerf it so we can all get it "* thread :D

[PopeJual]

Curious... why would you wait till Amrath for ur GH clicky when Xorian Cipher drops the Planar Gird - i normally try and get that sorted at lvl 6 or 7

Because 50+ runs through Xorian Cipher have taught me that Planar Girds both fear and hate me and will not drop for me in the quest.


...on the other hand, I got a Royal Guard Mask on my first run through Ghola Fan. :)

[Bloodstealer]

Because 50+ runs through Xorian Cipher have taught me that Planar Girds both fear and hate me and will not drop for me in the quest.


...on the other hand, I got a Royal Guard Mask on my first run through Ghola Fan. :)

Eeek Gola Fan is in Amrath, dang I've been flagging the wrong raid for years, why has no-one told me this.. **** you all to hell :D

[Diarden]

A lot of you are missing the big picture here. Let me spell it out for you...




I had to sell repair and regen 400sp and they couldnt wait that, in a ELITE pug shroud.

Why oh why did you need to sell and repair? Could you not have been prepared enough BEFORE entering the Elite shroud to sell and repair? Why do it before part 4, when the entire raid is waiting for buffs before jumping through?

Getting back the 400sp is trivial in comparison to the selling and repairing aspect. You may state that it takes no time at all, but some folks take a month of sundays to cherry pick what to vendor and what to hold on to. It is asinine for the OP to even remotely ponder as to why there was such anger towards him in the midst of battle.

Sell and repair on your own time, not during the raid's time.

[Bloodstealer]

A lot of you are missing the big picture here. Let me spell it out for you...




Why oh why did you need to sell and repair? Could you not have been prepared enough BEFORE entering the Elite shroud to sell and repair? Why do it before part 4, when the entire raid is waiting for buffs before jumping through?

Getting back the 400sp is trivial in comparison to the selling and repairing aspect. You may state that it takes no time at all, but some folks take a month of sundays to cherry pick what to vendor and what to hold on to. It is asinine for the OP to even remotely ponder as to why there was such anger towards him in the midst of battle.

Sell and repair on your own time, not during the raid's time.

Well he may of taken lots of damage in part 3 from all that swimming I guess,,, and heck have you not seen how much you are overcharged by the dude for repairing in there.. surely OP you could of passed on the repair.. not like you were gunna be meleeing Harry in 4 and 5 - you did say Healer not Battlecleric didnt you :D. Or was the PUG that bad that everythijng was so badly bust up in parts 1-3?

[Diarden]

If I had to repair before part 4 because 1-3 were that bad, then yes... I would have left too. That being said, I would need to have died 7+ times for my gear to be even close to breaking...

Dying in part 1? never. No one should ever die in part 1, even if there was an epic version.

Dying in part 2? Sure, it happens, even I admit I have died from time to time. On Elite, it can get hairy if folks don't do their jobs. But 7 times? As a healer?

Dying in part 3? Never. If you're doing an elite shroud run, you BETTER know how to do a puzzle. Should have been a cakewalk.

Thus, if part 2 went so badly you died 7 times, I wouldn't blame you for needing to repair. That being said, if you died 7 times in part 2, chances are the raid would not be able to finish part 4, let alone part 5 when you fight the same bosses you did in 3.

[shagath]

Repair takes like what 2sec max? Interact npc, click repair tab, click add all, repair -> done. I usually do that just to be certain that nothing is taking permanent damage like stack of major sp pots. Normal vendor interaction is a different thing but repair is so fast that it shouldn't even be discussed imo.

[Razcar]

Why oh why did you need to sell and repair? Could you not have been prepared enough BEFORE entering the Elite shroud to sell and repair? Why do it before part 4, when the entire raid is waiting for buffs before jumping through?

Repair I never do in there, but sell to the skellie I have to do on nearly all my characters after looting eight chests and going to loot four more. Especially on those toons that use UMD alot and have their inventories filled with wands and scrolls in addition to all the normal stuff.

Can't understand how a self-sufficient, well equipped character can not be forced sell in part 3 actually, unless you leave stuff in chests. On a related note it really bugs me that on Ghallanda mass buffs and songs are dealt out at the shrine instead of at the altar, which means those that sell miss them.

[Pape_27]

its cheese at best


how so?

[MalikiGoddess]

I've healed a few Shrouds before. I have never had a group that wouldn't wait on me to get my mana bar back to full. In PUGs, I almost always use my whole little blue bar to keep the group up.

It was rude for them to go on without you. This server is getting less and less patient...Its annoying. I don't mind people jumping into Part 4 without all the casters, but you better not agitate the pretty circle of mobs before the entire parties there.

I mean, everyone is tossing insults at the OP for expecting them to wait, but no one is remembering that on the other side of the situation is a bunch of melees (who obviously need a full blue bar per the other cleric being out of SP just after trash mobs) who can't sit tight for 30 seconds. Hell, sit your WF Barbarian butt down at the portal and go grab a drink.

I would have stayed in group though, probably only because its an SBA rule to never abandon unless under extreme circumstances. But, once that blue bar ran down it would have been every man/woman/child for themselves. If my SP is that worthless to them, then my mana pots can be saved for another day.

[Kovalas]

On a related note it really bugs me that on Ghallanda mass buffs and songs are dealt out at the shrine instead of at the altar, which means those that sell miss them.

Yes never understood this either, seems a bit counter productive, can self buff most things but still very very annoying.

Kov

[Micron]

On a related note it really bugs me that on Ghallanda mass buffs and songs are dealt out at the shrine instead of at the altar, which means those that sell miss them.

To make the buffers' life a bit easier I believe, if you buff at the skelly, you'll find that several people are still shrining or looting and out of reach, you have to skip them, remember who they are and then buff them when they come. Equally annoying. If you buff at the shrine, everyone is within casting range (unless they're paddling around in the pool).

Just buff/wait for buffs and sell afterwards?

[Tumarek]

There are different kind of players...

Some just want to get stuff done as quick as possible...

Some don't mind to wait a few min to get stuff all sorted or may have not 3 years of practice in shroud eg...

Problems start when these 2 groups mix. Good players of both kinds will sort the speed problems and work on a level everybody is comfortable with. Bad players will insist everybody does the thing their way.

[Razcar]

Just buff/wait for buffs and sell afterwards?Yes that's why I do now, but then the rest zone in for songs and haste and I miss those instead. And I stand alone there, crying on the skellie's shoulder about my missed 4 minute haste ;)

I guess I have to clean out my characters' inventories, oh the horror, some of the gibbous tentacled unnameables hissing from the darkest corners of my backpacks would better be left undisturbed.

/rolls 1d6 SAN loss

[RandomKeypress]

Had a similar incident last week with a pug on Argo, but embarrassingly, this was on normal. We were working through the shroud no problem, did the puzzles and then went into part 4. No-one noticed anything was wrong until Harry popped, we dived in... and no heal came. We had two clerics in the group and only one had come through. I don't know, but I think that cleric cast a mass heal early which we didn't need, queued up another and couldn't respond when our HP started dropping. My rogue only has 362HP - I'm still working on his gear; Harry decided he didn't like me so I was second person to drop. Heals arrived a little too late for me, but about half the raid was still standing, the cleric keeping them up, but with no backup. People were slowly getting killed off and the dead were asking where the other cleric was.
All I can say was that on the map he was standing directly in front of the altar, with a full mana bar. Not moving. Maybe he was unlucky with lag, but it looked for all the world like he was crafting. I didn't hear him deny the accusation, he just did what others have recommended one do in circumstances such as this - he came through the portal and started healing. Too late.
The other cleric ran OOM and died. There was a ranger, a sorc and a barb still going, but the ranger and then the sorc died, leaving the cleric healing himself and the barb, while the barb tried to solo Harry. I think they both did a great job to last as long as they did, but in the end the cleric ran out of mana before Harry ran out of hit points and we wiped.
So, the cleric stuck with the raid despite accusations and did his job. I've read a couple of people advising that route to prevent blacklisting. All I know is that despite all that, I'll still hesitate to raid with him again. I know he has the skills, but I'm only human.

[Arcaenium]

okay, first off, 30 seconds to regen in the pool? maybe if you just did some light buffing yeah, but not when you are putting out a ton of buffs. Second, buff before you shrine? what a jerk thing to suggest. Oh, you don't need any buffs at all, but I do. So selfish on your part there, but then who cares if the cleric or favoredsoul gets to keep his buffs. I have left plenty of runs with my healer when people are zerging, or just plain being jerks, a healer is not something to toss around and not care about.

Actually you can blow 2700 plus mana, and there is a soft spot in part 3 pool, at the corner of the bevel of the ramp, where YOU CAN KEEP YOUR BUFFS AND GET YOUR MANA BACK IN THE SAME TIME IT TAKES TO SHRINE> this way EVERYONE CAN GET BUFFED TOGETHER and the few casters have their mana back and don't have to throw anything else after (except a haste)

I do this all the time on my healer, and my wiz. Hell I even get my exploiters mana back if a caster is in the pool. May as well.

[DelverRootnose]

...I have no sympathy for zergers who do not wait whatever the reason. Even if he was crafting they should have waited. Granted they could give him an earfull because of it, but they should have waited.

However I also would not have left the group. I would have done the best I could to complete with normal SP bar and bauble clikie and maybe a few scrolls but i wouldn't have used mana pots because they couldn't wait. If it fails it fails.

[LuckyLuke2]

Sorry, but how much SP were you regenning? Part 3 is just a lil healing (ok maybe a little more on elite).


Standard mass buffs + some individual buffs are about 700-800 sp's for a full raid (depending of the needs). I usually buff individually, shrine and cast mass buffs whilst warning people that I am going to "top off" in the pool (if I shrine in between I lose my own mass buffs). On norm it will not matter much, on hard you will want to manage sp's a bit more carefully, on elite you really want to prepare up to the last sp. Some people will just too easily assume that a raid healer is ready to use several pods to keep them alive if you ask me.

[LuckyLuke2]

The OP wasn't running a zerg Shroud, he was healing a random elite Shroud pug, presumably with people he didn't know and wanted to make sure he had full mana for part 4. Your post has no relevance to the topic.

/signed

[Thriand]

Standard mass buffs + some individual buffs are about 700-800 sp's for a full raid (depending of the needs). I usually buff individually, shrine and cast mass buffs whilst warning people that I am going to "top off" in the pool (if I shrine in between I lose my own mass buffs). On norm it will not matter much, on hard you will want to manage sp's a bit more carefully, on elite you really want to prepare up to the last sp. Some people will just too easily assume that a raid healer is ready to use several pods to keep them alive if you ask me.

If you buff individually and then shrine, how in the world are you spending 700-800 sp on buffs.

I can't even reach that number going overboard with buffs.

freedom + fire + sonic +nightshield +stalwart pact + prayer + recitation + mass protection + mass aid.

All that is only 200 sp, and that overbuffing for even an elite Shroud

*edit* I suppose to be fair we should make that 220 sp since you would want to extend prayer and recitation, extending anything else would be silly

[Llewndyn]

I have recently rerolled my gimped bard into a pretty snazzy cleric. I haven't gotten him to Shroud levels yet, but there are a few things that I have learned that may help those of you out there who are not healers (I was going to say those without a blue bar but lets be honest here if you are a healer you have more to pay attention to than even other casters, so...)

1. Heal who you can: I don't heal around corners. I don't chase down kiters. I don't ask people to group up. I don't tell others what to do because I am no one's keeper. If you miss out on a heal or a buff because you zerged ahead, that's your problem.

2. Rest: I send a message to the party when I am going to hit a shrine. If while at said shrine I decide I need to swap out my ENTIRE spell repertoire, I will do so. If you don't want to wait on me, what happens happens. If I was in that shroud run (and I JUST got my FVS flagged so I will be in one shortly) I would have taken my sweet time as soon as the crafting accusation came about. If as a healer I am part of a team and no more important than anyone else then you can go on without me until I am ready. I have an FVS and a cleric. The SP for those classes is VASTLY different. If I pass out FOM and FR with extend on 10 other people that takes a significant chunk out of my mana, mana which I already have to conserve as a cleric as I have just a little over half what I do as an FVS. I also need buffs. To think that I am a jerk because I wanna regain my sp after buffing the party, shrining, then buffing myself only goes to show that you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't care if you have capped every class, you obviously benefited from a steady stream of fantastic PUGs, because I have yet to buff the party, shrine, and then not need or want buffs for myself. If the party can't wait for me to get back HOWEVER much or little SP I lost, then they are in too much of a hurry and I would have left too. If I see a free way to fill my SP bar I am going to take it, every time, whether I am doing elite shroud or Information is Key.

3. If 2 or 3 people get snotty with me in a raid, buhbye. We all play this game to have fun, not to get b****** at by other people. As recent threads have gone on here, randomly kicking people to invite guildies, randomly kicking to let more preferential people into your party is an accepted norm, it should go both ways. If I get annoyed enough with ONE person, yes, I will leave the entire party. "You are part of a group" THAT. Find someone else who will accept your insults and quietly take it.

to OP though: Sometimes you gotta ignore the peanut gallery. While I stand by me statement that if someone annoyed me enough I would have no qualms with dropping party because I am not getting paid to have to deal with other's BS, if you are going to get butt hurt and drop every time someone says something stupid you are going to be a lonely, lonely cleric.

Peace, Llewndyn.....out.

[Llewndyn]

If you buff individually and then shrine, how in the world are you spending 700-800 sp on buffs.

I can't even reach that number going overboard with buffs.

freedom + fire + sonic +nightshield +stalwart pact + prayer + recitation + mass protection + mass aid.

All that is only 200 sp, and that overbuffing for even an elite Shroud

*edit* I suppose to be fair we should make that 220 sp since you would want to extend prayer and recitation, extending anything else would be silly

FOM = 25.
FR = 15.
That equals 40. Multiply that by each person in a raid and you do NOT get 220. Unless at higher levels you get mass FOM and Resists (I don't know yet but even if you did they would cost even MORE SP) your statement does not hold water.

[taurean430]

Seems kinda strange that people couldn't wait for a min at most to get mana back using the pool. From what I've read the run in question wasn't a speed run. I would guess if it's a speed run giving buffs, shrining, and going directly to part 4 would be appropriate. But in a non speed run it doesn't make sense to put people in a position like that. Not everyone can/does play for speed.

While I don't think that putting the OP into a position to have to drink pots right off is cool... I wouldn't have dropped over it. If the group wiped, I would have reminded them that waiting for a multiclass cleric to have a full blue bar is actually a good thing.

[DrNuegebauer]

FOM = 25.
FR = 15.
That equals 40. Multiply that by each person in a raid and you do NOT get 220. Unless at higher levels you get mass FOM and Resists (I don't know yet but even if you did they would cost even MORE SP) your statement does not hold water.

So you're saying there's some reason to shrine BEFORE passing out buffs?


This is roughly what it should look like for a divine in part 3:
Do puzzle, run to pool. If OoM, swim quickly to fill. Run water.
Loot chests, pass out FoM
Shrine
Fire/FoM self (sp cost 40) --> on to part 4.

[Thriand]

FOM = 25.
FR = 15.
That equals 40. Multiply that by each person in a raid and you do NOT get 220. Unless at higher levels you get mass FOM and Resists (I don't know yet but even if you did they would cost even MORE SP) your statement does not hold water.

I believe I said after you pass buffs THEN shrine meaning you only need buff yourself and pass out masses, and my estimate is still very generous considering the insane amount of overbuffing that entails.

[Bobthesponge]

I don't know the specific circumstances of your particular Shroud... but I have never understood the fountain SP regen at the end of pt3. Sure, it's unavoidable at the beginning of pt5 to regen SP in fountains... but at the end of pt3, buff BEFORE you shrine.

If every single cleric, fvs, bard, ranger is down to 0 mana having exhausted all their SP clickies, and absolutely can not buff without shrining... something is very hinkey. No need to overbuff: FoM for the people (non-WF), FR for those without FR ship buff, and GH for those without GH clickies. Tear it up.

agreed, with an exception. i have run with speed groups and sometimes don't shrine at the end of part 2 and just jumpo straight into part 3 to do puzzles. sometimes i don't have the mana to buff before shrining.

in any case, back to the OP's post, if you are in an elite group it is only prudent to wait for the mana bars. this isn't a normal run. don't necessarily agree with his response, though.

[TipsyDrow]

I was on a elite shourd this night, just for fun, i have done elite shroud a long time ago (with nearly all my alts).
I was on my cleric Immortel-1 (2rogue/2pala/16cleric).
Every thing goes well until part 3-4.
I was regenning mana in pool in part 3 then run to portail to go to part 4 and all the group have clear trash, other cleric was close to 0 mana, boss was coming realling soon and i said ' why didnt u wait me to regen mana?".
They accuse me ' it s not time to craft, craft at end...." and i was just regening mana in part 3 pool.
If u do a elite shourd, and dont have the patience to wait ur cleric regening mana, then accuse him to being crafting, u have missed something!
I have said "if u cant wait the cleric, it s that u dont need me, bb" and leave.
Some people are upset about that.
I have no regret.
And will never have.

PQ: in fact i hate to be rude, for me the game is have fun, be good, and be NICE! i could have easily just go on, drink a lot of pots and do it well until end....... but people dont wait, then accuse me, is too much to just say "nvm i go on", the only thing hard (not really hard but ressoucres intensive) in elite shroud is healing part, have a few respect for u healer that accept to join ur elite pug sounds a basis for me !

For ur blacklist : Uman-1 / Menta-1 / Immortel-1 / Amnu / Vieuxsage / Bhouda / Amelune / Camarde / Immortel / Malfonction .... and a few other

Here's the deal. They were'nt rude for not waiting, they were STUPID!!! There's a difference. Rudeness gets repaid with the cleric saying oh, that's cool, have a nice day *recall*, Stupid gets repaid with oh, lemme just heal a lil bit then let you dumb ****ers wipe and also, have a nice day. After all they were soooo uber they didn't need you right? Right? It annoys me to no end when I fully buff an entire group then go regen and or shrine and they zerg on ahead while I'm shrining regening. Stupid or rude, either way gets paid back in kind. Have a nice day.

[Fancy_A_Fling]

first of all, squelching 1 toon will squelch the account, IE. they squelch ur cleric, means all your other toons will be. 2ndly, ive noticed with EU players, u guys typically rest with 1k mana left, before buffing and then buff then go to the pools, i am not suprised they went on. Although i see your aspect its nice to wait for your cleric on an elite setting... just saying though...i wasnt in that party, i dont often pug elite shroud (even though its a cakewalk of a quest). Not saying you had mana when u rested, just saying what ive seen in typical EU players.

[shdrex63]

Dissapointing how some are unable to understand that a PUG is not an guild run. Or the fact that you can practically have clickies for everything, but how many people are actually using them (or have them/know of their existance) in a PUG, not your guild or group of friends? To talk about them is one thing but lets be realistic please.
I personally wouldent have done what the OP did. However as an cleric I am not your hireling I dont follow you on command, neither do I expect you be an gibbering (insert desired adjective) who just keeps his right button clicked and runs around in circles blindly swinging (insert desired weapon).

[Dogchair]

And this is the **** people are discussing?

Seriously?

I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt, most people I know try to play with some self-reliance.

My first inclination is to suggest you at least hang out and watch them all die without you. Don't drop. If they live, you are the weak link and buck up and learn to keep up or run slower groups by forming the LFM yourself.

Learn to walk with 2 legs and your eyes open. Form groups to your specs if they **** you off enough to whine on the forums and get all passive aggressive like. Seriously, who trolls these things looking for people to avoid or ban? Word of mouth tells me that everyone does something crappy from someone else's perspective at somepoint, so either care too much and be butthurt all the time, or let it go, realize its a game, and seek your fun with people who think and play like you.

The beauty of the AD&D model game is that there are 4 bazillion ways to accomplish 4 billion objectives. Like life.

Complaining about why people don't view life and this game like you do is a practice in futility.

Find your destiny luke....oh, I am not your father, son.

~Dogchair

[MAP1974]

self reliance in an elite shroud. i'm inclined to suggest you take another break.

[Dogchair]

self reliance in an elite shroud. i'm inclined to suggest you take another break.

If you are suggesting I take a break because I feel that there are many trivial things that one can do for themselves instead of relying on others to do it for you, is a bad thing, then the only break I need is from players like yourself.

However, it is a free country so you are entirely justified in posting your opinion.

Enjoy your version of the game, because I surely enjoy mine.

/chair

[morticianjohn]

They probably assumed you'd be 30 seconds behind them (which would have been a non-issue) but you didn't tell anyone that you had to pick through your full inventory to decide what to keep or not. Maybe one day you'll learn to keep the party informed about anything that might delay you. IMHO as a team member you should stay with the group. If you have a suggestion that the party should wait for you to regen SP then post it. If they disagree let them know you will not be using any pots. This way only the party leader can get blamed if you run out.

As others have mentioned there are probably between 9 and 11 players whowere just doing their best to complete the quest (following the leader) who didn't accuse you of anything. You abandoned those players too in addition to getting your "revenge" on anyone who left you or accused/insulted you in any way.

[jonsump]

that is a load of **** i was one of those people that was in that shroud! And it was a lot longer than 30 sec we were already fighting the boss which takes a while. Not to mention when we went in it was typed and spoke "is everyone ready " and no one said anything we all just went in and the only thing that was said was what are you doing crafting or something... so, the point is bailing is bailing and you sir "SUCK"! just like when we started the quest and someone had just left saing he was getting his fvs but found out he was on timer so we let you in. and someone asked what about the fvs you got but hurt and started throwing a fit saying ill just leave then if you dont like clericks so grow up and learn to play the game its not just about you! there were 11 other people that wasted alot of time because you bailed!


Mackdoom, Bosifas, and several others

[Dendrix]

[QUOTE=Camarde;3507789
If u do a elite shourd, and dont have the patience to wait ur cleric regening mana, then accuse him to being crafting, u have missed something!
I have said "if u cant wait the cleric, it s that u dont need me, bb" and leave.
Some people are upset about that.
[/QUOTE]

You didn't tell anyone what you were doing.
So you had a snit when questioned and then you ragequit?

That's exactly what you did.

That's the actions of an 8 year old child.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think the Op and his party deserved each other. :cool:

[Dogchair]

I think the Op and his party deserved each other. :cool:

+1

The problem with people is they forget how sharp people can be when it comes to sniffing out how it really went down. This is an example of why it doesn't serve much purpose to /rant after you /ragequit when you really should just /pokesmot and relax a minute.

/chair

[bryanmeerkat]

SO you arrived just as the other cleric was about to OOM , that sounds like just about on time for you to take over . Whats the Beef ?

[LuckyLuke2]

freedom + fire + sonic +nightshield +stalwart pact + prayer + recitation + mass protection + mass aid.

All that is only 200 sp, and that overbuffing for even an elite Shroud

*edit* I suppose to be fair we should make that 220 sp since you would want to extend prayer and recitation, extending anything else would be silly

That is more or less the amount of sp's that I will need to regen after shrining indeed.

The total of 700-800 sp's mentioned were for ALL buffs (individual + mass on full raid) so you will have to add 40 (fom+fire res) *11= 440 + 220. I usually cast an extended divine power + divine favor + holy aura on myself as well (getting near the 700-800 mark here).

[wax_on_wax_off]

I like this thread, it's taught me how to swim into the bit of the floor that lets me get my SP back really quickly, at least something good has come of it, thank you.