HoX: The PUG Gods cursed me

[AltheaSteelrain]

Today: Failed HoX five times in a row, always the dogs dying. Normal

Yesterday: Failed HoX six times in a row, always the dogs dying. Normal

Conclusion. I'm cursed, I'm fated to be w/ bad PUGs this weekend.

No +2 loot for me.

Then again I did my first elite shroud today w/ a PUG so it was a good experience though I know people did it better (level 12 - 16 as I read it right on the other thread)

/rant off.

[stille_nacht]

ive only failed 2 HoX runs outa 8 o-O, though those two were because of the dogs dying, no i dont want to PUG it anymore...

[biggin]

So, 11 failed hound runs, all PUGs. Were you the only common factor in all 11 tries? Hmmm........







:)

I won't PUG HOX anymore unless it's with channel friends. Not worth the time to run out there, but I do like collecting Planar shards. Sounds like you should be getting close to a Large Ing bag.

[Wurmheart]

blacklist those healers then?


and how much healers did your party bring?
2 is usually enough but risky, but with 3 it should be easy as hell

[AltheaSteelrain]

ive only failed 2 HoX runs outa 8 o-O, though those two were because of the dogs dying, no i dont want to PUG it anymore...

You have 25% success rate then. :P


So, 11 failed hound runs, all PUGs. Were you the only common factor in all 11 tries? Hmmm........

:)
I won't PUG HOX anymore unless it's with channel friends. Not worth the time to run out there, but I do like collecting Planar shards. Sounds like you should be getting close to a Large Ing bag.

Yep. I'm getting 5 shards each failed run so prolly this is what the gods are telling me: get your bag! Mercy for your cluttered inventory!



blacklist those healers then?


and how much healers did your party bring?
2 is usually enough but risky, but with 3 it should be easy as hell

I always run HoX w/ two healers and a bard (me) and request all wizards to load up recon scrolls/spells for the WF, tank or non-tank. Did half of the failed runs w/ three healers and a bard (me) but still faildom.

and I don't like to blacklist people. I always give chances unless they really **** everyone off w/ their retardness :)

[Purgatory]

Learn to put a raid together properly and you wont fail it. Ofcourse that assuming you know how to lead the raid and if not then you have no room to complain about failing raids you cant lead yourself...

Don't buy into the take first 11 people that hit the lfm BS some left wing hippie want you to swallow cuz that the only way they can get into a group is if someone blindly take them in.

That doesnt mean exclude people that are new but deffiently excluse people that are trying to hide the fact they are new (these the ones that cause you problems) and ofcourse the ones from those guilds (you know wich guilds they are) they never bring nothing to the table except for death and disaster.

Puting something in your lfm like send tell for invite will help you weed out people that cant seem to read and are in-capable of following simplest instructions

[AltheaSteelrain]

Learn to put a raid together properly and you wont fail it. Ofcourse that assuming you know how to lead the raid and if not then you have no room to complain about failing raids you cant lead yourself...

Don't buy into the take first 11 people that hit the lfm BS some left wing hippie want you to swallow cuz that the only way they can get into a group is if someone blindly take them in.

That doesnt mean exclude people that are new but deffiently excluse people that are trying to hide the fact they are new (these the ones that cause you problems) and of course the ones from those guilds (you know wich guilds they are) they never bring nothing to the table except for death and disaster.

Puting something in your lfm like send tell for invite will help you weed out people that cant seem to read and are in-capable of following simplest instructions

You assume too much and judged me as though I did a first 11 omg who cares motley group on the LFM for HoX. That is not fair.

As I said, I know the "basic" raid composition on every possible raid I can do (Vod, HoX, TS and Shroud) but will not hesitate to bring along newbies that do listen. What I do complain about is the fact that a even TR'ed to whatever clerics/fvs brought into my raid group I fail to comprehend the rapid deaths of Puppies on normal.

And what did I do? I adjust of course. I stopped buffing GH on the dogs the next run I did yesteday (my 2nd run afterwards) because maybe it is I to blame. But no, dogs still kept dying. I brought another cleric/fvs into the group (3rd run afterwards) but still nada, failure dogs kept dying. Maybe I should backup heal (4th run afterwards). Nada, dogs kept dying because I'm a gimped bard that can only cycle spot healing Cue Crit Cure Serious Cure Mod Scroll Heal Scrolls. So blame the bard then? :)

So tell me is it the tanks? I know my tanks for HoX. I'm no math genius but I know w/c icon is the best possible chance of accepting a proper intimitank for HoX Normal, and had never failed so far in getting a intimitank into my group.

Is it the bard(me)? I know my stone duties, i even know all the superstitious beliefs about bards and non-bards using the stone.

Is it other people then? I don't know, I don't want to blame, all I know is I always remind people both Jaded and New to not use vorpals, dont kill dogs, bring puppies in the middle and try not to bring stuff in the middle that doesn't have four legs and spits green stuff at their mother.

Is it pugging in general? Maybe.

Will I stop pugging HoX? Probably.

But will I discriminate people (unless they are retards?) No.

That is why I am cursed because I refuse to be an elitist and reject people unless they are really retards and will waste our time.

:P

[NinjaCereal]

I've never been in so many failed raids as I have in HoX. Maybe the raid itself is cursed...

[AltheaSteelrain]

I've never been in so many failed raids as I have in HoX. Maybe the raid itself is cursed...

I know. That's why I posted this because I found it odd to kept failing a very easy raid. :P

[Kmnh]

This week, it's not the healer's fault. The game is having HUGE lag spikes from the mabar event

[AltheaSteelrain]

This week, it's not the healer's fault. The game is having HUGE lag spikes from the mabar event

Funny though I get the lag spikes in part 1 of shroud always instead of randomly and or during the dragon summoning this week. I guess its different for everyone experiencing the mabar faildom :(

[Blackbird]

No +2 loot for me.


I did an elite Hound and Shroud this weekend for loot. Trust me, you didn't miss anything. I got better loot from the end rewards of the couple casual Preys I ran for Tempest runes. :)

[AltheaSteelrain]

I did an elite Hound and Shroud this weekend for loot. Trust me, you didn't miss anything. I got better loot from the end rewards of the couple casual Preys I ran for Tempest runes. :)

but i want my tumbleweed @_@

[biggin]

I've never been in so many failed raids as I have in HoX. Maybe the raid itself is cursed...

It isn't cursed, it's just the only raid in the game that requires self sufficient players. Everyone around the outside needs to be able to keep themselves healed up and whoever is in the middle needs to be able to take care of any mobs that make it in. I can't tell you how I want to tear my hair out watching people's health bars slowly drop down, or even worse get one shotted by a beholder. Also, if your cleric or fvs in party don't regularly lead raids, you need to either be in there to babysit or make sure you trust whoever is. Dog healing is no different than healing any other raid, just timing and using your SP efficiently.

I'm not taking a shot at you, my last 2 tries have failed because for whatever reason the people running the outside can't seem to keep themselves alive, even after being told if they can't handle the aggro then just take a swing and run. I think new players run Shroud and VoD and think to themselves, "I don't need to worry about anything, the clerics will keep me alive." Basically I wouldn't take anyone on a HOX raid that I wouldn't take in a BYOH group.

[NinjaCereal]

In a pug for HoX right now, we'll see how this goes...

[Purgatory]

There is your problem you alredy stated it, you take anyone and everyone that hit your lfm (especialy your healers) and then wonder why you fail all the time.....

you can call me an elitest all you want but im not the one failing raids and then complaining about it.

When I host a raid and lead it, I feel that im responsible to make sure that everyone in the raid has a fair chance of completing it to begin with and could not live with myself if I got lazy, irresponsible and continue to waste 11 other people time due to incompitance by just accept anyone and everyone that was capable of having a internet connecion at that moment of time. If your alright with wasting 11 other poeple time that just want to get a completion in, shame on you. Good raid leader not only knows the raid well, but also knows how to form one up. If you have players that cant follow simple directions (and there tons of them out there), you know the type those are the ones usualy tossing out the "Elitest" in defence of there mess-ups or my favorite "It's just a game dude" so its ok to run around act like a complete idiot making other people playing experiance less then enjoyable. There just no respect for other people time and for some that time is very limited. I find it funy how people can say thing like "It's just a game dude" or call other Elitest for placing value in something they have and are investing there time into. Once you start joining and forming groups with other players its no longer your time and its no longer "just a game" when you incorprate other people time to the equation and that time has value. No game in the world is "just a game" when it involves more then one person. Anyone that thinks differntly is self-centerd, lazy and someone i dont want anything to do with as they obviosly have no respect for me and my time.

Any healer worth anything can solo heal hound simply by pushing the same button every few seconds (mass heal)
Its not hard to do....

[AltheaSteelrain]

There is your problem you alredy stated it, you take anyone and everyone that hit your lfm (especialy your healers) and then wonder why you fail all the time.....

As I said I know how to put a proper raid composition for the said raid. To be honest though after two healers a bard and a intimitank, what's left to do w/ the other slots? Shortman it?

I rather use those slots to teach other people. What I am complaining about is not the noobs/newbs, is the healers not healing the dogs properly, regardless if they are TR or not, newbie or noob.

you can call me an elitest all you want but im not the one failing raids and then complaining about it.

I'm not even calling you that. All I am saying is that you are being unfair to your judgment on me as though I brought 11 tag alongs.

I played long enough thank you to even make a "WoW-like" raid group when I'm too lazy to make grinding completions fun and full of drama :)

When I host a raid and lead it, I feel that im responsible to make sure that everyone in the raid has a fair chance of completing it to begin with and could not live with myself if I got lazy, irresponsible and continue to waste 11 other people time due to incompitance by just accept anyone and everyone that was capable of having a internet connecion at that moment of time. If your alright with wasting 11 other poeple time that just want to get a completion in, shame on you. Good raid leader not only knows the raid well, but also knows how to form one up. If you have players that cant follow simple directions (and there tons of them out there), you know the type those are the ones usualy tossing out the "Elitest" in defence of there mess-ups or my favorite "It's just a game dude" so its ok to run around act like a complete idiot making other people playing experiance less then enjoyable. There just no respect for other people time and for some that time is very limited. I find it funy how people can say thing like "It's just a game dude" or call other Elitest for placing value in something they have and are investing there time into. Once you start joining and forming groups with other players its no longer your time and its no longer "just a game" when you incorprate other people time to the equation and that time has value. No game in the world is "just a game" when it involves more then one person. Anyone that thinks differntly is self-centerd, lazy and someone i dont want anything to do with as they obviosly have no respect for me and my time.

While I agree to your sentiments, you are too hostile in your manner of approach :)

Any healer worth anything can solo heal hound simply by pushing the same button every few seconds (mass heal)
Its not hard to do....

While it is true, puppies still die even on norm, even with a WOW-like raid composition and capped toons as long as its a PUG :)



answer in purple

[Elaril]

Op, tell your dog tank to take his guards off.

I'm a bit dissapointed in this thread, the drama is basically non existent.

Where are all the "IwasinthatraidFUmyguyisgreatyourguysucksitwasyourf aultwefailedPMPLZ" posts?

[Nich]

Puting something in your lfm like send tell for invite will help you weed out people that cant seem to read and are in-capable of following simplest instructions

This. Plus, I love to decline people who apply w/o sending a /tell then messaging me that I really must have no clue of this game since I declined them.

This is usually followed by a: 'Welcome to the retards' list, do not hesitate to learn how to read it's never too late!' :p

[NinjaCereal]

In a pug for HoX right now, we'll see how this goes...

Annnnnnd fail. Then again, what did I expect in a pug on hard with a new guy...

[phalaeo]

blacklist those healers then?


and how much healers did your party bring?
2 is usually enough but risky, but with 3 it should be easy as hell

:rolleyes:

Cause nobody ever swings a sword at a puppy, do they? :p

[Shishizaru]

Annnnnnd fail. Then again, what did I expect in a pug on hard with a new guy...

My second HoX was a PUG on hard (I'm pretty sure the LFM listed normal but w/e). The bard was new. We still completed, somehow. Possibly because I think we had 3 good healers. 2 in the middle, one circling the outside saving people's behinds. Wasn't the smoothest HoX ever (heck, quite the opposite, stones left on outside, people kiting dogs everywhere BUT the middle, not buffing dogs at first, only one dog charmed), but somehow we got through it.

Still hope. Then again, I've had pretty good luck with pug raids on Cannith.

[Purgatory]

This. Plus, I love to decline people who apply w/o sending a /tell then messaging me that I really must have no clue of this game since I declined them.

This is usually followed by a: 'Welcome to the retards' list, do not hesitate to learn how to read it's never too late!' :p

LOL sometimes i think i put that in my lfm just so i can lol at people who do that very thing you described.

LFM= Send tell for invite
pugger "how come you declined me"
Me "re-read the lfm"
Pugger "ok... so how come you declined me"
Me "cuz you cant follow simple directions"
Pugger "but i did re-read the lfm"
Me "but did you understand it?"
Pugger "Elitest @#$@#$@#@#$#$@$%#$%@"

[bartosy]

nps with hox whatsoever on thelanis last 4 times i did a hox i got a complete on all 4 counts. And those were in pugs. And tanked them all 4

The only thing that starts to annoy me that how in pug raids in the sub there's always this one guy thats holding up 11 people for over 15 minutes.

And the anti social tards that need to spice up there l33t lfm but i just stop hitting those altogether. I rather join a fail party once or twice,then to need to listen to a nerd rage out in a virtual world because someone died and he lost 10% exp.

[sirgog]

Don't PUG failable raids during American long weekends. It's that simple.

The number of terrible players that log on during those weekends is incredible.

[Kourier]

Pugged a HoX on normal today. Halfway through, all the dogs broke out except one and we had 1 stone left, so we just killed em (YES, we killed most of the dogs on purpose). Our tank might have died at some point. :) Easy completion.

I dunno, normally Thelanis pugs are pretty good.

[sirdanile]

Don't PUG failable raids during American long weekends. It's that simple.

The number of terrible players that log on during those weekends is incredible.

This combined with mabar event means most of the decent players are off doing something else.

[Tiro]

I was also in failed pug and funny thing, I was the first time person and I was the cleric (lvl 17). I just bought the adventure pack and this was my first subt quest. Yes I did send the leader a tell and asked him if I could join because it was my first time.

Even after reading the quest guide on wiki and my raid leaders instructions (his French accent kinda messed me up), I felt ill prepared for that chaotic fight. Everyone all around me was getting their buts whupped (all out of range) there was only two healers and a bard. The two of us were trying to keep the dogs alive and failing and trying to keep those inside the circle alive and the tank. Needless to say we both ran out of sp and I was left to using heal scrolls then the inevitable wipe.

I would love to hear some good advice on how the dogs should have been healed. Should I have ignored everyone else that was dying? Should I use mass cures vs single point, etc.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Don't PUG failable raids during American long weekends. It's that simple.

The number of terrible players that log on during those weekends is incredible.

I wasn't aware that Thanksgiving day is a long holiday.

[Purgatory]

I wasn't aware that Thanksgiving day is a long holiday.

cuz 4 days is not a long weekend? compared to the normal 2 day weekend...


Thanksgiving is on thursday then you have friday,saturday, and sunday most people will have off. = Long weekend

Not much to understand

[Thrudh]

There is your problem you alredy stated it, you take anyone and everyone that hit your lfm (especialy your healers) and then wonder why you fail all the time.....

you can call me an elitest all you want but im not the one failing raids and then complaining about it.

When I host a raid and lead it, I feel that im responsible to make sure that everyone in the raid has a fair chance of completing it to begin with and could not live with myself if I got lazy, irresponsible and continue to waste 11 other people time due to incompitance by just accept anyone and everyone that was capable of having a internet connecion at that moment of time. If your alright with wasting 11 other poeple time that just want to get a completion in, shame on you. Good raid leader not only knows the raid well, but also knows how to form one up. If you have players that cant follow simple directions (and there tons of them out there), you know the type those are the ones usualy tossing out the "Elitest" in defence of there mess-ups or my favorite "It's just a game dude" so its ok to run around act like a complete idiot making other people playing experiance less then enjoyable. There just no respect for other people time and for some that time is very limited. I find it funy how people can say thing like "It's just a game dude" or call other Elitest for placing value in something they have and are investing there time into. Once you start joining and forming groups with other players its no longer your time and its no longer "just a game" when you incorprate other people time to the equation and that time has value. No game in the world is "just a game" when it involves more then one person. Anyone that thinks differntly is self-centerd, lazy and someone i dont want anything to do with as they obviosly have no respect for me and my time.

All that ranting above... then this...


Any healer worth anything can solo heal hound simply by pushing the same button every few seconds (mass heal)
Its not hard to do....

So why again do you have to screen your hound raids?

I have never heard of 11 Hound raids failing in a row... All it takes is one healer casting mass heal... Like Purg said, it's easy...

Was the leader in ANY of these 11 tries communicating at all?

[Purgatory]

So why again do you have to screen your hound raids?



Because dispite how stupidly easy the raid is, some just try and make it 100x harder then it needs to be.

Sreening peopel to a make sure they can

1. undertand and flw simple instructions (this key for time like hey you got dog agro bring to middle)
2. Are capable of pushing one button every few secs so dogs dont die. with out doing anything stupid in the process

Dispite how simple it is to mass heal the dogs you get the idiot that trys to do more then that, like get this big bright idea of playing leap frog of zyx to get to the other side or think its a good idea to run up and do self targeted aoe spells to heal the dogs or buff them then wonder why they got bees and cant heal and cast anylonger. stupid people will do stupid things and a few simple questions will bring that stupidity to light.

Sadd trueth is there is a large # of players that playing healers that cant seem to manage 1 and 2

I even witness whole guilds that routinely cant do either 1 or 2 (they are on auto decline now)

flw simple instructions and dont do anything stupid in the process.

[sirgog]

I was also in failed pug and funny thing, I was the first time person and I was the cleric (lvl 17). I just bought the adventure pack and this was my first subt quest. Yes I did send the leader a tell and asked him if I could join because it was my first time.

Even after reading the quest guide on wiki and my raid leaders instructions (his French accent kinda messed me up), I felt ill prepared for that chaotic fight. Everyone all around me was getting their buts whupped (all out of range) there was only two healers and a bard. The two of us were trying to keep the dogs alive and failing and trying to keep those inside the circle alive and the tank. Needless to say we both ran out of sp and I was left to using heal scrolls then the inevitable wipe.

I would love to hear some good advice on how the dogs should have been healed. Should I have ignored everyone else that was dying? Should I use mass cures vs single point, etc.

Probably not your fault.

In a decent Hound run, your task is simply to avoid 'the bees' (Xy'zzy has a frontal cone breath weapon that applies a nasty damage over time on the players hit, and prevents them casting spells) and to heal the tank first, then the charmed dogs, and yourself (if you take damage). You can heal other players as well if you have healing cooldowns free (so if using Mass Heal on the dogs, you can use your Heal spell cooldown to heal a player).

Usually the bard (and if present, second/third Clerics or FvS's) will be assigned to healing the raid.

I'd say your group failed because the melees and arcanes could not kill the trash mobs quickly enough, not because of any mistake you made. Failed runs that are healers' faults usually involve dogs dying, often after a cleric gets 'the bees'.

[Irinis]

I was also in failed pug and funny thing, I was the first time person and I was the cleric (lvl 17). I just bought the adventure pack and this was my first subt quest. Yes I did send the leader a tell and asked him if I could join because it was my first time.

Even after reading the quest guide on wiki and my raid leaders instructions (his French accent kinda messed me up), I felt ill prepared for that chaotic fight. Everyone all around me was getting their buts whupped (all out of range) there was only two healers and a bard. The two of us were trying to keep the dogs alive and failing and trying to keep those inside the circle alive and the tank. Needless to say we both ran out of sp and I was left to using heal scrolls then the inevitable wipe.

I would love to hear some good advice on how the dogs should have been healed. Should I have ignored everyone else that was dying? Should I use mass cures vs single point, etc.

Yeah definitely use quickened mass heal on the puppies, maybe also heals in between if they have bees. There shouldn't be trash mobs in the center and people on the outside need to mostly take care of themselves. (Or have a melee fvs who can throw the occasional heal on the outside.)

[AltheaSteelrain]

cuz 4 days is not a long weekend? compared to the normal 2 day weekend...


Thanksgiving is on thursday then you have friday,saturday, and sunday most people will have off. = Long weekend

Not much to understand

I'm not from America so how should I know?

We dont have thanksgiving in our country, but with the many "official" and "unofficial" holidays, we get more longer weekends that you do.

do forgive my uncultured idea of how long thanksgiving is in your country.

[Thorzian]

As I said, I know the "basic" raid composition on every possible raid I can do (Vod, HoX, TS and Shroud) but will not hesitate to bring along newbies that do listen.:P

dude, you're not helping your case here. ToD isnt on this list and you actually count tempest spine as a raid?? not earning many credibility points here. get yourself 2 healers, 1 bard, 1 caster, 1 solid fog clickie with hitpoints (or a high intim) and 7 monkeys you found in the street and you can hound in your sleep.. but the non-monkeys need to know what they're doing... especially the bard. that was you wasnt it?

[AltheaSteelrain]

dude, you're not helping your case here. ToD isnt on this list and you actually count tempest spine as a raid?? not earning many credibility points here. get yourself 2 healers, 1 bard, 1 caster, 1 solid fog clickie with hitpoints (or a high intim) and 7 monkeys you found in the street and you can hound in your sleep.. but the non-monkeys need to know what they're doing... especially the bard. that was you wasnt it?

Because I don't have Amrath yet?

And yes tempest spine is still a raid.

That is a good plan, except the fact that the dogs kept dying even with that strategy in place.

Why can't you understand that is my problem: the dogs kept dying while doing everything by the book.

And you assume I didn't know what I'm doing and that is unfair. This is an isolated case brought by the combination of mabar + thanksgiving + bad pug luck. I only posted this out to read other people's opinions on what the heck is wrong with HoX runs lately and I got an answer thanks to Purgatory and others.

But then again maybe you are right and I am too blame after all I am THE BARD and bards are uber and are expected to be godly in imminent wipe scenarios. :)

[Doomcrew]

Because I don't have Amrath yet?

And yes tempest spine is still a raid.

That is a good plan, except the fact that the dogs kept dying even with that strategy in place.

Why can't you understand that is my problem: the dogs kept dying while doing everything by the book.

And you assume I didn't know what I'm doing and that is unfair. This is an isolated case brought by the combination of mabar + thanksgiving + bad pug luck. I only posted this out to read other people's opinions on what the heck is wrong with HoX runs lately and I got an answer thanks to Purgatory and others.

But then again maybe you are right and I am too blame after all I am THE BARD and bards are uber and are expected to be godly in imminent wipe scenarios. :)


Not only the bard, but the leader of 11 consecutive fails. Try joining a few HoX's
and see what's being done differently. If it comes down to poor healing, then either
screen your healers, or get used of failing the Hound.

[Tom_Hunters]

several months ago i think the HoX PUGs in thelanis were fine

like 8 out of 10 are successful, including some hard runs (i even did a 5-min run too on normal)

but recently the HoX runs are bad, I think it's a 1/2 chance now

some of the problems lie on connection, I mean there were several times when the charming bards d/c on the way collecting stones, or the clerics d/c during puppy heals

And I notice that ppl often can't stop the render mobs from entering the centre, and then messes things around

tanks are usually fine though


just what i have observed...

[Irinis]

Not only the bard, but the leader of 11 consecutive fails. Try joining a few HoX's
and see what's being done differently. If it comes down to poor healing, then either
screen your healers, or get used of failing the Hound.

In the 50 fail runs I had almost consecutively on Thelanis (about 1 success in HoX for every 5 attempts), I accepted healers, tank, and bard where I wasn't familiar with all of them. Some were definitely griefed, but I'm sure a few here and there were due to plain incompetence. The ones that succeeded were the ones where I knew I could count on the people in key roles. Unfortunately, that's just what the game's like. I don't know if it was really better in the golden age before f2p, but DDO does have a huge learning curve and the mechanics of many raids make it easier to grief than to complete.

[TigrisMorte]

...their retardness
The folks with the rights to this term do not deserve to be associated with the looser your are using it for. A gentleman whom I work with has legal right to the term, and he would play better.
Seriously, ******** is a medical term for a condition. Not an epithet to be used to describe folks with nothing but their ineptitude to blame. Please consider refraining from using the term.
thanks,

[Astraghal]

Failed runs that are healers' faults usually involve dogs dying, often after a cleric gets 'the bees'.


You make it sound like cooties or a disease.

I must go get my annual shot. :)

[Thorzian]

Because I don't have Amrath yet?

And yes tempest spine is still a raid.

That is a good plan, except the fact that the dogs kept dying even with that strategy in place.

Why can't you understand that is my problem: the dogs kept dying while doing everything by the book.

And you assume I didn't know what I'm doing and that is unfair. This is an isolated case brought by the combination of mabar + thanksgiving + bad pug luck. I only posted this out to read other people's opinions on what the heck is wrong with HoX runs lately and I got an answer thanks to Purgatory and others.

But then again maybe you are right and I am too blame after all I am THE BARD and bards are uber and are expected to be godly in imminent wipe scenarios. :)

not at all. the bards cant save imminent wipes.. they can properly set up to avoid them. the person playing the bard can do more then sing songs and click the charm stones. i do indeed understand your problem even though you dont seem to.. the dogs were underbuffed and underhealed is what it looks like to me. the party wasnt told to keep the renders out of the middle. you are using your inexperience and poor choice of key players in the raid as a victim of luck or some such thing.

go ahead and neg rep me for pointing out what your problem is.. i NEVER fail hound. always run hard with pugs. its the easiest raid in the game (except reaver i guess) this raid is all about 2 healers, 1 tank, a bard, and a leader who all have a clue. fill the rest of it with morons who can follow basic instructions and you wont fail. ever. getting there is harder.

what answers did you get from the others? dont pug? thats a cowardly answer from people without the leading skills to control a situation gone bad. if there are 1 or 2 players in a raid that seem determined to fail it let them die and dont raise them. if they succeed put them on your list and move on with your life.. dont assume all pugs are the same and limit your experience to the safe, cushy walls of the guild. whats wrong with HOX? nothing. if its pooly lead it will fail. if its poorly healed it will fail. if big dog aggro isnt controlled it will fail. if the doggy buffs are minimal it has a higher chance to fail.. honestly, on normal, all you need is someone with a shroud haste for them and you'll still pull it off with 4 stones. other then that keep the renders out of the middle. hell on normal keep everyone in the middle and pick off the few renders that wander in. you say "by the book" a lot without details. just how do you run this raid?

[Grecan]

I'll jump in this thread to ask a relative question...

What if the raid fails not due to dogs dying, but due to Xyzzy having lost only 25% of her health until the beholders come out? Who is to blame then? Maybe those who were supposed to buff the charmed puppies?

Also, i got a stone when the mess had already started, and meant to give it to the bard, but he was running around killing stuff (that had entered the middle) and wasn't responding to me, so i used it myself on a puppy, but instead of attacking Xyzzy (who was right next to it) it started running out, and the bard (then) told me i should have given him the stone cause such things could happen... (??)

[Astars]

I think the basic problem for HoX:

There is no incentive to run it anymore for most power gamers
- many are on TR and got anything they need on their 1st incarnation
- the hound loot is relatively worthless in the end game/epics (don't see many healers using the shield in epics (except dq, but nearly any high DR shield will do); don't see many melees use a shield in epics and if i do i try to avoid them; and rings....ToD rules, epic baphomet and maybe the occasional abbot ring)

The only reason would be for +3 tomes on hard runs, but with the deterioration of PuG quality, no1 bothers anymore. (call it vicious circle)

So the hound pugs are left for the clueless to be lead by the clueless
VoD PuGs aren't much better in quality, but the quest is more forgiving.


Cheers

Ast

[DragonMageT]

Why can't you understand that is my problem: the dogs kept dying while doing everything by the book.

Let me help you point the finger at the person/persons that should be blamed.

You say the dogs keep dying, ok fine.

If the dogs are dying before they get charmed, then
A. It's the tank with guards on or B. the party running around the outside killing them.

If the dogs are dying after they get charmed, then
It's the clerics/fvs and bards fault (and yes the bard can help heal).

If beholders are getting you, then again it's the clerics/fvs and bard's fault for not properly buffing the dogs.
Hitting the dogs with Mass bulls and bears makes a huge difference, in a hard run, it can or will be the difference in success or failure.
Edit: Or the bard not charming the dogs quick enough.

It's that simple!

[petegunn]

One bard one healer 3 vorpalaires = happy days problem solved

[fuzzy1guy]

I can't imagine 11 fails in a row... It's just not that hard of a raid.
But the quality has gone downhill lately.

Usually end up in the center on a caster. buff/heal/masscures and kill anything that doesnt belong in there. Or at least let it beat on me where it can't hurt anyone.

And i've noticed ALOT of casters and healers lately who can't even take two hits from a render or protector before dying. Like supersquishy minos off squishy... idk.

And alot of clerics who do stupid things... like i've seen more than one run right into the mass and 'i'm letting my aura heal them'. They usually die of bees. It's funny when it doesnt cause a wipe.

Plenty of casters and healers who have no concept that the bees are a cone and stay the hell away from whichever direction she's facing.

Lots of arcanes who were told to bring globe.. So they cast globe ON THE DOGS! <facepalm>

Lots of lap runners who get all 'OMG IM DEAD! I AM THE UBER HERO! YOU'L FAIL WITHOUT ME! I NEED A REZ RIGHT NOW!' and healers who try to accomodate them intead of doing their job and keeping the dogs alive. If a lap runner died. Leave him dead till the end.

The worst tho is the number of people who can't understand 'don't move on zone in'. And start that timer up long before we're buffed. So the end of the fight is always with beholders around. fun fun.

[BlackSteel]

Two points:

Anyone can tank the big dog at the start. Intimidate is NOT required. Try a fog clickie. There's no reason for a lfm for hound to sit up looking for a "tank"

a single divine caster with mass heal should b able to solo heal the dogs. When the lvl cap was raised , healing the puppies became an absolute joke.

[taurean430]

not at all. the bards cant save imminent wipes.. they can properly set up to avoid them. the person playing the bard can do more then sing songs and click the charm stones. i do indeed understand your problem even though you dont seem to.. the dogs were underbuffed and underhealed is what it looks like to me. the party wasnt told to keep the renders out of the middle. you are using your inexperience and poor choice of key players in the raid as a victim of luck or some such thing.

go ahead and neg rep me for pointing out what your problem is.. i NEVER fail hound. always run hard with pugs. its the easiest raid in the game (except reaver i guess) this raid is all about 2 healers, 1 tank, a bard, and a leader who all have a clue. fill the rest of it with morons who can follow basic instructions and you wont fail. ever. getting there is harder.

what answers did you get from the others? dont pug? thats a cowardly answer from people without the leading skills to control a situation gone bad. if there are 1 or 2 players in a raid that seem determined to fail it let them die and dont raise them. if they succeed put them on your list and move on with your life.. dont assume all pugs are the same and limit your experience to the safe, cushy walls of the guild. whats wrong with HOX? nothing. if its pooly lead it will fail. if its poorly healed it will fail. if big dog aggro isnt controlled it will fail. if the doggy buffs are minimal it has a higher chance to fail.. honestly, on normal, all you need is someone with a shroud haste for them and you'll still pull it off with 4 stones. other then that keep the renders out of the middle. hell on normal keep everyone in the middle and pick off the few renders that wander in. you say "by the book" a lot without details. just how do you run this raid?

I agree strongly with this.

Problem is that if there was a bard present, the day isn't over once you charm and drop an inspire courage. Mass Bulls/Bears, displacement, haste, helping heal them all follow that. My bard is a WC without the slightest in healing spec and can cover the dogs well with just amrath belt/scroll mastery 4/ mass cure light/ mass cure moderate. Rotate the cycle. Cast mass cure mod, scroll scroll mass cure mod, cast mass cure light. Rinse and repeat.

The better you buff the dogs, the quicker the raid is over. The more effort you put into making sure they are kept healed, the quicker the raid is over....

[Irinis]

I can't imagine 11 fails in a row... It's just not that hard of a raid.
But the quality has gone downhill lately.

40 fails out of 50 here, all pugs on Thelanis.

It's easy to fail a hound when:

1. Someone "loses" the stones
1.a) someone not assigned to pick up stones grabs them, then either claims innocence or destroys them out of inventory (8 of 40 fails, deliberate griefing but hard to tell who did it and who to kick)
1.b) Bard picks up stones but kills around the outside before coming in and charming then decides to not sing for the puppies (2 fails out of 40, the next run with a better DIFFERENT non-griefing Bard succeeded)
2. Puppies aren't healed
2.a) Healers stand within overrun distance and attempt to cure with aura (never happened to me personally, that's a funny one lol)
2.b) Healer heals one dog at a time with the heal spell, 2 dogs die while the Bard is doing mass cure light and mod in masses and frantically tossing scrolls (5 fails)
2.c) Tank fails to get or maintain aggro and healers get it instead, both healers dead several times, Bard out of mana healing dogs while trying to raise healers and heal self (25 fails of 40)
2.c)1. Tank runs into the center before setting up fog, gets overrun, big dog goes straight for the healer after chewing the tank up a little
2.c)2. Tank decides to move for some reason before the puppies are charmed but after aggro is established and healers are settled into a rhythm, healing is blocked, tank dies.
2.c)3. Tank gets bees before puppies are charmed and healer doesn't have scrolls at all so tank dies while heal is on timer, or after healer wastes ALL mana on multiple types of cures because of not having scrolls (3 fails)
3. Renders in the middle killing healers and dogs
3.a) People running around the outside have to actually KILL stuff not let it trail behind them until it decides to cut through the middle and go "oh hey yummy puppies to chew on instead!"
4. Beholders dispelling charm
4.a) Good pugs don't get to this part. 14 fails out of 40.

Yes that adds up to more than 40. Most fail pugs have more than one problem going on at once.

Leadership means nothing when people are incapable of following basic instructions for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink, or some such proverbial bit of nonsense.

Being called an incapable player on a level 20 that was in there successfully at 14 is always fun isn't it?

[FreudoBaggins]

... my last 2 tries have failed because for whatever reason the people running the outside can't seem to keep themselves alive, even after being told if they can't handle the aggro then just take a swing and run. I think new players run Shroud and VoD and think to themselves, "I don't need to worry about anything, the clerics will keep me alive." ...

FWIW, in the Hounds I've been on (all PUGS, and this was close to a year ago), we used chew toy (I've been the chew toy and I've been the cleric). CT and healer go in center first, everyone else makes one run around the outside, and comes into the middle, little or no CC on the spokes. We let spawns run around the ring, and only attack them if they come into the center. Hound usually died before beholders arrived; if it didn't, we usually failed. For the record, most times we succeeded.

Maybe stuff has changed (what hasn't, in this game?), but if you still can use that strategy, it solves the party being away from the cleric issue.

If this isn't done anymore, I'd be happy if someone let me know, and the reason why; thanks! [Astars, fuzzy1guy, and Irinis seemed to have answered my question, tks!]

[BlackSteel]

What if the raid fails not due to dogs dying, but due to Xyzzy having lost only 25% of her health until the beholders come out? Who is to blame then? Maybe those who were supposed to buff the charmed puppies?



just to point out:

the beholders spawning in no way mean a wipe, even if they uncharm the puppies. This even includes the second wave of big daddy beholders.

granted from the looks of it, alot of these groups from these PuG horror stories beholders = dead just about sumz it up then.

[AltheaSteelrain]

...

just how do you run this raid?

I gsing and buff haste, run with people after tank gets aggro. pick up stones. YELL if I have to to stop people from touching the stone. Once 3/4 stone is grabbed I assess the situation if the middle team is doing well I'll grab the 4th before I dive into middle, if not I'll steer ASAP into mid while telling whoever I am familiar w/ in the run to get 4th stone for me.

I start to charm dogs, haste them, stoneskin them, sing them, Mass Bull/Bear them, caress them, throw a heal or two; I'm not heal specc'd and I don't have reliable mass cures but I throw a scroll of cure mod mass in the mix to help the healers. But this is where it gets interesting that dogs still die so its either my GIMP bard that has no proper HJEALS spells or the other healers don't heal properly.

I also am doing the fascinate/kite/pull of whatever mob some person dragged along when they decide to pike or take a break from running lapses in the middle. Did I mention I was typing out command while doing all of these?

But then again nobody reads the party chat or I have bad english.

Pick one. :)


Let me help you point the finger at the person/persons that should be blamed.

You say the dogs keep dying, ok fine.

If the dogs are dying before they get charmed, then
A. It's the tank with guards on or B. the party running around the outside killing them.

If the dogs are dying after they get charmed, then
It's the clerics/fvs and bards fault (and yes the bard can help heal).

If beholders are getting you, then again it's the clerics/fvs and bard's fault for not properly buffing the dogs.
Hitting the dogs with Mass bulls and bears makes a huge difference, in a hard run, it can or will be the difference in success or failure.
Edit: Or the bard not charming the dogs quick enough.

It's that simple!

AS I mentioned above, I think I did what I had to do regardless of buff redundancies. The more redundant the better and smoother the raid will be.


...

The better you buff the dogs, the quicker the raid is over. The more effort you put into making sure they are kept healed, the quicker the raid is over....

The only problem is no matter how much you put effort in not making this easy raid fail as long as the rest of the team feigns ignorance or do something silly it'll drag long and will be brutal.


40 fails out of 50 here, all pugs on Thelanis.

It's easy to fail a hound when:

1. Someone "loses" the stones

I am always stone duty. I insist this position. I'd rather be squelched than have somebody else take the stones on my watch.

1.a) someone not assigned to pick up stones grabs them, then either claims innocence or destroys them out of inventory (8 of 40 fails, deliberate griefing but hard to tell who did it and who to kick)

This. Some people love shinys and refuses to listen.

1.b) Bard picks up stones but kills around the outside before coming in and charming then decides to not sing for the puppies (2 fails out of 40, the next run with a better DIFFERENT non-griefing Bard succeeded)

Like I said above, I always dive ASAP into the middle when I reach 3/4 mark unless the middle team is doing well, which at this point I proceed to collect all 4 before proceeding to charm and buff the dogs.

2. Puppies aren't healed

I am sorry that I insist on playing a 12 bard splash that can only throw a cure mod scroll and spot healing. My apologies for playing a sub-optimal build that tries to be main healer when the real healers are sub-par in their duties and/or neglecting them.

2.a) Healers stand within overrun distance and attempt to cure with aura (never happened to me personally, that's a funny one lol)

I observed this behavior lately.

2.b) Healer heals one dog at a time with the heal spell, 2 dogs die while the Bard is doing mass cure light and mod in masses and frantically tossing scrolls (5 fails)

And this. Although I am not excusable even with my sorry 12 bard state, the fact that I kept throwing mass mod scrolls in vain proves that I know the importance of healing efficiency.

2.c) Tank fails to get or maintain aggro and healers get it instead, both healers dead several times, Bard out of mana healing dogs while trying to raise healers and heal self (25 fails of 40)

This. Especially when he said tank brags his whatever number intimidate beforehands but fails to establish aggro the second he steps inside the middle.

I am clueless in intimitanking. Don't ask me why.


2.c)1. Tank runs into the center before setting up fog, gets overrun, big dog goes straight for the healer after chewing the tank up a little

This happened after the wizard has been told of and had said beforehand that he loaded fog spells. I have fog clickies but its limited and used only in desperate times.

This window of "desperate time" is a fraction of a second; before i can go into the middle the big dog is already running rampant outside.



2.c)2. Tank decides to move for some reason before the puppies are charmed but after aggro is established and healers are settled into a rhythm, healing is blocked, tank dies.

This happened too.


2.c)3. Tank gets bees before puppies are charmed and healer doesn't have scrolls at all so tank dies while heal is on timer, or after healer wastes ALL mana on multiple types of cures because of not having scrolls (3 fails)

Healers not having scrolls in PuGs is normal lately.


3. Renders in the middle killing healers and dogs

And pikers too that refuse to lift a finger to solve the problem.


3.a) People running around the outside have to actually KILL stuff not let it trail behind them until it decides to cut through the middle and go "oh hey yummy puppies to chew on instead!"

This, or to better translate the people that believe clerics possess a +1000 morale bonus on their survivability before they fight instead of sticking together and focus fire.


4. Beholders dispelling charm

Good pugs don't even see a beholder


4.a) Good pugs don't get to this part. 14 fails out of 40.

but unfortunately the 11 I pugged with are not.

Yes that adds up to more than 40. Most fail pugs have more than one problem going on at once.

Agreed.

Leadership means nothing when people are incapable of following basic instructions for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink, or some such proverbial bit of nonsense.

This.

Being called an incapable player on a level 20 that was in there successfully at 14 is always fun isn't it?

Yes it is fun especially when they assume that you don't know anything and had not researched/experienced/played/rerolled/minmaxed/roleplayed/guild runned/whatever on what to do prior in posting a complain/drama thread.




answers in purple.

[sigtrent]

It's a technique and knowledge over power raid.

I actually find I learn a bit more about it being in failed raids. In a successful one you may not realize all the things that went right in it. Then when a point of practice fails you get to find out.

I think our guilds hound record is 8 to 1 or so success to fail and I can't think of much we do that a decent pug couldn't. But I will say that at least half the fails are someone doing something they didn't know about, such as getting Bees on you. If no one tells you what to expect, then its going to cause problems.

And that kind of goes for everyone. Recovering from an error is about someone knowing how to fill in for someone else or what it is that needs to get fixed to get things back on track.

I'n a pug, if i were leading, I'd not expect that everyone knows whats what. I think you have to go over the game plan in some detail even if its boring for some. Its less boring than doing the whole run over again.

So you have to explain....
Layout
There is an inner circle and an outer ring connected by spokes, like a wagon wheel.

The outer ring has portals that spawn flenzers, mind flayers and beholders. The flayers drop charm gemstones. The spawning monsters get harder and more plentiful as time goes on.

Tanking and Healing
The inner ring spawns up to 3 small hounds and the momma raid boss hound starts there. Keeping them all in the center is important to avoid the outer ring spawns.

You can't hurt the momma, only the small hounds can and they must be charmed using the charm stones the mind flayers drop. This also means you want to keep the hounds alive at all costs, don't hurt them.

You will have a tank who's job it is to get the attention of the momma and the little hounds initially. They can use intimidate if they are really good at it, if not they should use a solid fog clickie which will get the dogs attention. If you get a dog on you, bring it to the tank or his cloud until its agro changes. Hitting a dog will make that much harder to do. You want to get all the dogs interested in the tank.

The momma breathes a cloud of bees that will do a very nasty ticking DOT on you that makes it really hard to cast spells. Unless you are the tank, avoid the momma's breath at all costs. Also she will trip anyone that touches her body, so stay away from direct contact with her especially the tank or healer. Unless you are tanking just stay away from her!

The healer initially should keep the tank alive at all costs, dead tank = momma on the loose = big trouble. Later, when the hounds are charmed you should keep the small hounds alive, they will become your tanks.

Clearing the Ring and getting stones
Everyone but the healer and tank will start by circling the outer ring killing everything you find and picking up nothing. Its important you don't pick stuff up as you might get a charming stone, that would be bad. One person (usually a bard) will be selected to pick up the first three charming stones. As soon as they get those they should head to the inner ring and let everyone know. A second person is designated to pick up any remaining stones.

When the ring is cleared return to the center where your job is now to keep monsters from coming into the center room.

Setting the Dogs
Next the stone holder (bard) will use the charm stones to charm the dogs. It helps if you hot bar the stones. This will put a charm on the dogs and they will attack the momma so long as she is the nearest monster.

The charmed dogs should be buffed heavily. Bears endurance, bulls strength, inspire courage, iron-skin chant, Rage, Blur, Displacement, Stoneskin, Barkskin are all helpful.

The healer should now focus on keeping the dogs alive, even if the tank goes down, the dogs will tank the momma for you so long as they live. Unless the tank has intimidate strong enough for the mother he should step away when he looses agro.

The person carrying the extra stones should hand them to the primary stone holder when they are done charming and buffing dogs.

If a dog breaks, kill it. A new dog will drop in. keep it sort of near the momma and charm it so it will attack her. If you get to the fourth dog, you should send a team to get more stones from the outer ring.

Defending
Everyone but the healer keeps the other monsters away from momma and pups. An arcan can set clouds in the spokes to get agro of anything coming in (and stand well away from the mom and pups.) Protect the healer, protect the dogs. The healer should not be distracted healing other players.

Teams can go to the outer ring to clear monsters but if they do they need to be self reliant and fast at killing. If the quest goes well this should not be needed. Do anything you can to keep other monsters away from the dogs.

Finishing
Eventually momma dog will be weak enough anyone can attack her. When this happens just DPS her quickly and you will win. Its unlikely you will loose the quest once you get to this point as she is fairly easy to kill.

[Faent]

HoX PUGs require more leadership than most raids. Most failed HoX PUGs I have been in have failed because of bad leadership. If you are leading a HoX PUG, you *cannot* assume that everybody who has run HoX at least once before knows what's up. Not getting a response to "Is this anyone's first time here?" is not a license to fail to provide highly detailed instructions.

I would never lead a PUG Titan raid without telling people in advance not to summon pets (or take off their ooze guard if they happen to have that). Would you? Do you want to fail? I joined a Normal HoX today that failed. I can't say I was impressed when the leader threatened to kick a relative newbie who antecedently stated he was pretty new to the run, for summoning a pet. Clear and comprehensive directions *need* to be provided in any HoX PUG (well, unless you know that you and your friends can complete without any help).

The PUG HoX raid fail percentage would easily be cut in half with good leadership.

[Thorzian]

I gsing and buff haste, run with people after tank gets aggro. pick up stones. YELL if I have to to stop people from touching the stone. Once 3/4 stone is grabbed I assess the situation if the middle team is doing well I'll grab the 4th before I dive into middle, if not I'll steer ASAP into mid while telling whoever I am familiar w/ in the run to get 4th stone for me.

I start to charm dogs, haste them, stoneskin them, sing them, Mass Bull/Bear them, caress them, throw a heal or two; I'm not heal specc'd and I don't have reliable mass cures but I throw a scroll of cure mod mass in the mix to help the healers. But this is where it gets interesting that dogs still die so its either my GIMP bard that has no proper HJEALS spells or the other healers don't heal properly.

again, its the details that you miss. the order you give here is charm the dogs then haste.. do you do nothing while the charm is cooling down? the proper order is charm/haste, charm/haste, charm/haste, inspire courage, rage, others.. (truth be told the others are not really needed but dr from a song or stoneskin helps. bulls strength helps, though you will be too busy to cast it that should be a healer) you shouldnt need to heal but if you do its yer bad luck that you are in a **** pug.

why in the name of all that is holy would you let someone else grab the 4th stone? tell them to leave it. get the songs out and get the 4th stone yourself. always charm after 3. the events in the raid are timed. here's where the difficulty of the raid dictates what happens next.

- on normal, after you get stone 4, call the entire party to the center. no cc, the mobs will just chase a caster who will be running cuz he has no hp. watch you party here, if someone is on the outside after you tell them to get in the middle, call him by name and let him know in no uncertain terms that in your party people will listen or they will not be welcome in the next, or future, runs. keep them in the middle, keep haste, rage and mass heals on the dogs. have the melee's watch the spokes for aggro and have someone with voice call the direction of it when it comes.

- on hard/elite, after you get the 4th stone let the party know to stay on the outside.. no coming into the center for any reason untill "now is the time to strike" they stay together at all times.. no camping portals waiting for beholders/ flayers. if someone is near death and needs a heal that is your job, meet them at the next spoke from the center and toss it, then return to the center. any aggro to the middle is also your job. irrisistible dance and vorpal ftw.

-if you have a high enough intimitank, get him to keep up the intim on xyzzy in all difficulties. he probably has enough ac also. intim is 70/75/80 norm,hard,elite. ac for 95% miss is slightly less.

you wont fail. the healers are for the tank and the little dogs, everybody else better have self healing or enough hp to last until you have time as a bard to get them.

absolutely most important.. if people are not listening to instructions, punt them. make it known in no uncertain terms that this is YOUR raid and you dont care at all how their guild does it or what they read on a forum page. then watch for people who think they werent who you meant and remember them. 11 straight fails.. nobody needs that and its not fair to blame all pugs when it really isnt that bad.

anyway, when I say i run hound "by the book" that's my book right there. i lead every hound just like that, but when i join someone else's, i do listen to them. i firmly believe that the guy with the star is in charge... though ill pay attention to that too. if he leads like a moron, i wont be joining too many of his runs, that would be a sin :)

[Purgatory]

Did I mention I was typing out command while doing all of these?

But then again nobody reads the party chat or I have bad english.



no you didnt mention that, Well that probly one your bigest problems right there, get a mic!

No one takes the TYPEing leader very seriously and they 100x easy to ignore over the guy that going

"ARE you always this incompitent or today just a special day for you?" over voice chat to realy grab there attention.

[fuzzy1guy]

Normal/Hard.. As a caster i run one lap to the 3rd stone drop. Either picking them up as i'm the charm guy. Or not as the case may be. Either way i'll be the first to the stone and either pick it up or watch/try to see who does.

At the 3rd stone drop i head into the middle and kill anything that doesnt belong there. Charm/Buff what i can. And either head out for the 4th stone or start tossing out buffs/heal/mass cure/globe as needed.

If anything comes into the center i **** it off so it goes after me. I can take the hits and deal with it.
After the 3 stones expire and we're down to 1 charmed dog off the 4th. The other dogs are killed off.

At this point it doesnt matter what anyone else is doing. I can keep 1 dog up attacking xyzzy and healed.
Once she's open to attack i dump all sp with chain disintigrate/cyclonic blast. Dead doggy.


Hard/elite is usually 2 dogs. and the other killed. And then 2 dogs. And the other killed. So theres always 2 attacking. Flesh to stone works as well. Just so the extra/uncharmed is not in the way and not a target for the charmed dogs.

Fails are rare... Only seen a handful. And usually due to the healers doing something weird. d/c, bees, not healing, ect... Or someone running into the middle with a ton of **** chasing them.. I can only deal with about 3 targets at once. You can usually spot the fail groups on the way to the quest too.

[Purgatory]

absolutely most important.. if people are not listening to instructions, punt them. make it known in no uncertain terms that this is YOUR raid and you dont care at all how their guild does it or what they read on a forum page. then watch for people who think they werent who you meant and remember them. 11 straight fails.. nobody needs that and its not fair to blame all pugs when it really isnt that bad.

anyway, when I say i run hound "by the book" that's my book right there. i lead every hound just like that, but when i join someone else's, i do listen to them. i firmly believe that the guy with the star is in charge... though ill pay attention to that too. if he leads like a moron, i wont be joining too many of his runs, that would be a sin :)


Agreed! tell them pujjers who big daddy is and your not takeing no BS from some tree huggin hippy sissy that starts to cry when a bit of testostrone gets slung there way. In this group there only one way of doing things and that way is my way or you can take that poor of excuse gimp of yours back down the street with its thumb in the air looking for next free ride down pujjer highway.

[AltheaSteelrain]

It's a technique and knowledge over power raid...


Thanks for the breakdown of the HoX, I learned something from this. :D

Some additional comments though:

1. It is rare for me to send someone to get the 4th stone; when this happens, its usually I sense the middle team is in danger and I naturally assume that I will be needed there to heal/buff and save the raid. But usually I get all stones before proceeding.

2. I will probably try to haste before I sing, or maybe haste + stoneskin before songs and whatever else needed.

3. I will let the group know that killing the dogs when they broken free from charms is better and more efficient than tanking them; prolly just within Guildies since we'll be almost at raid strength (horaay for more members!!!!~ :) )



no you didnt mention that, Well that probly one your bigest problems right there, get a mic!

No one takes the TYPEing leader very seriously and they 100x easy to ignore over the guy that going

"ARE you always this incompitent or today just a special day for you?" over voice chat to realy grab there attention.

Probably. I guess I haven't adjusted yet on a MMORPG that is primarily voice over keyboard. Usually MMO's in SE Asia are still a keyboard based communication system and I learned to type fast and concise through this.

I think its time to level up... LOL



Agreed! tell them pujjers who big daddy is and your not takeing no BS from some tree huggin hippy sissy that starts to cry when a bit of testostrone gets slung there way. In this group there only one way of doing things and that way is my way or you can take that poor of excuse gimp of yours back down the street with its thumb in the air looking for next free ride down pujjer highway.

LOL!~

Thanks guys for the insights >:)

Will do better next time!

[ZodacBKB]

Don't PUG failable raids during American long weekends. It's that simple.

The number of terrible players that log on during those weekends is incredible.

As a corollary, don't PUG epics during the Mabar event + American long weekend. You may end up with people who are quietly new to epics getting one token for their upgrade; longest Big Top I've ever done.

[Irinis]

Agreed! tell them pujjers who big daddy is.

Sorry big daddies you'll have to go back to the kitchen for this run, momma bear is running the show and she WILL show you who's boss if you get all uppity like. :D

[Grecan]

just to point out:

the beholders spawning in no way mean a wipe, even if they uncharm the puppies. This even includes the second wave of big daddy beholders.

granted from the looks of it, alot of these groups from these PuG horror stories beholders = dead just about sumz it up then.
Yeah, but as i said Xyzzy had lost only about 25% of health or maybe less when the big Beholders came out (so she was at about 75% health) and you have to actually kill her to win the raid, right? So i supposed that they hadn't buffed the puppies well, cause the stones where gathered fast and the puppies where charmed quickly... And i asked if this assumption is wrong or right.*

I also asked something about me (melee) charming a puppy when the mess had started (see my post above if u care to explain if i did something wrong)..

(*)I'm not saying this is the only thing that went wrong, but i think it was the major fail-factor

[Doomcrew]

Sorry big daddies you'll have to go back to the kitchen for this run, momma bear is running the show and she WILL show you who's boss if you get all uppity like. :D

Didn't you say you failed 40 of 50 HoX's?

[Thorzian]

didn't You Say You Failed 40 Of 50 Hox's?

+1