The Artemis

[spifflove]

Edit: Purpose of post was originally to get feedback on three possible layouts: However, post evolved into discussion on what is better, ranger or barbarian on a primarily melee character who occasionally ranges only in appropriate situations.

Edit 2: In conclusion, a 14/6 barb with arcane archer gear is top ranged dps, but come mod 9 it will no longer be available. The tempest capstone ranger retains its place as DDO's most versatile fighter. An 18/2 build can come close but does not gain evasion and loses out on its own important capstone, cannot use the arcane archer gear.

Race Elf

St 18 + level ups
Dex 16 +1 tome
Con 14
Int 08
Wis 08
Char 08

Skills
jump full progression
Balance half progression
UMD half progression
Spot 7-14 ranks

three possible layouts to compare:

Ranger2/barb18
1: point blank shot
3: PA
6: multishot
9: ic ranged
12: cleave
15: ic pierce [to be switched out to itwf at level 20]
18: stunning blow [to be switched out to gtwf at level 20]

fb III [+6 str raging, crit will be on a 20, x5]

Ranger 6/barb 14
1: point blank shot
3: PA
6: wf ranged
9: ic pierce
12: ic ranged
15: stun [to be switched out to gtwf at level 20]
18: mt

Crit Rage II, Arcane archer III [expands threat range to 18-20 x3, gives 1d6 force arrow, ram's might]


possibly

Ranger 6/barb 14
1: dodge
3: mobility
6: SA
9: ic pierce
12: ic ranged
15: PA
18: stun [to be switched out to gtwf at level 20]

Crit Rage II, tempest I
Which one is better and why?

[spifflove]

comparing crits vs ranger capstone for 20 attacks:

Ranger with capstone
20 + 4 extra (two x3 crits with improved crit) plus 5 (25%) plus 1 (possible crit from 25%, rounded up) = 30 attacks vs 22 for non ranged spec.

Barbarian with crit rage:
20 + 4 ic + 8 crit rage (or two more crits per 20 for x3 each) = 32 attacks per 22 non ranged spec.

Barbarian with FB III

20 + 4 ic + 4 crit multiplier (or two crits total for x5 each) = 28 attacks per 22 non ranged spec.

[for a 3x crit, im counting that as 1 attack plus 2 extra attacks so one crit in 20 would be 22 attacks]

[spifflove]

Possible favored enemy extra damage mod 9: 11, so [assuming 18 str, all level ups str]

For 30 attacks x 11 favored damage = 330 damage bonus.

Crit rage at level 14 would be +6 str with +4 damage crit damage IV or

+7 x 32 = 224.

Not certain for FB III but should be around +11 for 308.


Although the 14/6 Crit barb falls behind the pure ranger and 18/2 Frenzied barb in bonus damage by 84 points (not considering 2 favored enemies for crit barb) the extra 2 attacks = a plus 6.25% increase in dps [-those 84 points]

Interestingly the FB III falls behind the capstone ranger.

[Shade]

Option 3.
Because the bow stuff barely matters. The real advantage to taking any rangers levels would be the tempest enhancement, and option 3 is the only one that qualifies.

Also take power attack early, not late. The other feats can wait, it can't. Your a DPS class, you have power attack at lvl1/3, not 15.

The bow str feat is all you really need for ranged damage. It's not like ranged DPS will ever be that great so you shouldn't put much focus into it.

Unless your really looking to make a pure ranged max dps type build just for fun.. In which case probably option 1, and maybe even drop some strength for more dex so you can hit the tougher targets with the bow.

Tho to me it seems that part of the purpose of ranged is more survivability as you don't need to be up in their face.. In which case having a high UMD to self heal is rather important, so you'd need a rogue level or 2.

Dunno. Not a big fan of ranged.

[spifflove]

Option 3.
Because the bow stuff barely matters. The real advantage to taking any rangers levels would be the tempest enhancement, and option 3 is the only one that qualifies.
.
I heard elswhere that a tempest crit II barb would not outdamage a Frenzy III barb. Is it actually an advantage?


The bow str feat is all you really need for ranged damage. It's not like ranged DPS will ever be that great so you shouldn't put much focus into it.

.

Trying to make a strong dps barb in the same build. Will you be able to take the bow str feat by itself next mod?

[QuantumFX]

Is there any way you could fit an extra feat in there? If so you may have the option of getting Bow Strength as a selectable feat and staying pure as a barbarian. I remember Eladrin doing a bug post on it a while back and one of the prereqs was Power Attack.

[spifflove]

Is there any way you could fit an extra feat in there? If so you may have the option of getting Bow Strength as a selectable feat and staying pure as a barbarian. I remember Eladrin doing a bug post on it a while back and one of the prereqs was Power Attack.

If we are getting bow str it could fit but I would feel funny not having twf on an elf build and making a dedicated archer without improved precise shot (though some bows have it)

Perhaps 2 rogue/18 barb:

1: PA
3: bow str
6: rapid shot
9: ic ranged
12: point blank shot
15: Multi shot
18: cleave

[QuantumFX]

If we are getting bow str it could fit but I would feel funny not having twf on an elf build and making a dedicated archer without improved precise shot (though some bows have it)

Perhaps 2 rogue/18 barb:

1: PA
3: bow str
6: rapid shot
9: ic ranged
12: point blank shot
15: Multi shot
18: cleave

I’ve been playing with this in Ron's character generator and realized you'll need a level of a spellcasting class to open up AA. :(
Maybe the Ravager PrE will be less feat intensive. For melee you have the option of a Falchion now.

[Shade]

Theres no plans for allowing Bow strength to be taken as a regular feat.

And yea pure berserker will outdps the tempest splash.

[QuantumFX]

Theres no plans for allowing Bow strength to be taken as a regular feat.

It's on Lammania right now.

[Shade]

It's on Lammania right now.

Interesting. Could be a bug tho, wasn't in release notes.

[Demoyn]

Trying to make a strong dps barb in the same build. Will you be able to take the bow str feat by itself next mod?

Which is it? Are you trying to make a strong DPS barb, or do you want to use a bow? You can't have both.

[spifflove]

Which is it? Are you trying to make a strong DPS barb, or do you want to use a bow? You can't have both.

Yes you can. Its called martial weapon proficiency.

Not sure if rangers get 25% for captone anymore. What is epic %?

[QuantumFX]

Not sure if rangers get 25% for captone anymore. What is epic %?

If you fit arcane archer into the build the set bonus is +10% ranged speed bonus that doesn't stack with the ranger capstone.

[SimVerg]

The real problem with archery is that its baseline is extremely slow(think its 56 shots/minute at 20) and it has three times as much overhead as the next slowest animation(THF). This means it receives a great deal less benefit from haste effects and even if you found a 100% haste boost(which would reduce your delay to 0, excluding overhead) would still only allow you around 100 attacks/min.

[spifflove]

this is not a ranged is über thread it is a best possible ranged on a melée toon thread. If ranger cap is nerfed then they might fall behind a barb.

[Demoyn]

Yes you can. Its called martial weapon proficiency.


A martial weapon proficiency cannot make up for the fact that archery in DDO is pure ****.

[spifflove]

A martial weapon proficiency cannot make up for the fact that archery in DDO is pure ****.

So if a mob was ranging you and you couldn't strike back you would just stand there and take it? Perhaps run around helplessly?

[Demoyn]

So if a mob was ranging you and you couldn't strike back you would just stand there and take it? Perhaps run around helplessly?

Why couldn't I strike back? I have destruction, searing light, meteor swarm, etc.

I could also have my arcane caster throw firewalls, or lightning bolts, or flesh to stone, or..... you know.... things that DON'T suck.

[spifflove]

Why couldn't I strike back? I have destruction, searing light, meteor swarm, etc.

I could also have my arcane caster throw firewalls, or lightning bolts, or flesh to stone, or..... you know.... things that DON'T suck.

Oh so you only play one toon? Probably on the wrong forums then.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, if you want to go pure archery, PA is unnecessary, though that comes with its own problems.

Also, Crit Rage II, w/ Improved Crit: Ranged and a Silver Longbow would have a threat range of 15-20, which is pretty nice on a x3 weapon.

[Noctus]

best possible ranged on a melée toon thread.


---> Tempest Ranger 20.
Great melee capabilities, while also getting most archery feats for free, as well as getting the unmatched Archery capstone.

[spifflove]

---> Tempest Ranger 20.
Great melee capabilities, while also getting most archery feats for free, as well as getting the unmatched Archery capstone.

But is the capstone still 25%?

[spifflove]

If you fit arcane archer into the build the set bonus is +10% ranged speed bonus that doesn't stack with the ranger capstone.

That would put barbarian 14/6 over the top. You have to have arcane archer to get the bonus?