I hope you realize...

[GeneFrenkle]

Mod 9 - there is no timeframe / release date yet.

What that means to us: At some point in the future, could be soon, or could be month(s) from now they will announce the "target" release date. The actual release date will likely be 2-3 months from the time of the announcement. There will be updates to the test servers, additional beta testing an bug fixing, etc during that waiting period. In all likely hood they will do everything in their power to get the release for mod 9 out by the announced date just because it's been so long overdue.

If you think Turbine is going to come back next week and say "Here it is guys, mod 9 ready to go for download", you are mistaken. If they were to make an announcement this month, expect the date to be somewhere in the August to September time frame. So, just accept that they are doing what software developers do, creating software and it takes a lot of time to make it robust enough for commercial use.

It's going to be a while, at least a few months or longer before Mod 9 is up on the servers, so get used to the idea.

There's no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to stick around in the game, so if you don't like it then don't stick it out.

[die]

im going too vomit... we are so screwed:)

[BattleCircle]

Heh, and we just might get to preview mod10 before 9 is live :eek:

[WeaselKing]

My theory is that they will announce a new date less than one month from that date. You see if they announce a date further out than that then they run the risk of large numbers of players cancelling their subs until that time. With a month (billing cycle) or less this is not as likely. My theory anyway.

[Drwaz99]

My theory is that they will announce a new date less than one month from that date. You see if they announce a date further out than that then they run the risk of large numbers of players cancelling their subs until that time. With a month (billing cycle) or less this is not as likely. My theory anyway.

You make a good point, but I would also suspect that many also sign up for 6 mo or yearly plan (when you could get them for 9.99) and have no choice but to stick around. But The OP is correct, we are much further off than we think, there is no way they are going to pop up ans say SURPRISE Mod 9 is a week away. I hope for mid/late June, expect early Aug at the very earliest.

I just thank god I got in on 9.99. The $30+ I saved waiting for mod 9 is almost 2 tanks of gas! :)

[TheGreatEye]

I agree with the OP. Why not just relax about it. If you cant do that, then cancel. Come back when mod 9 is out... or not. If you truly think Turbine is screwing the pooch here, talk with your feet.

I for one took an extended break from the game back when level cap was 10. Did me a world of good, and put an end to the frustration of logging on and being bored.

[Strakeln]

Sitting back and taking it is not effective at all, as we have repeatedly proven over and over.

However, one person can't make them wake up, and we've shown next to no ability to organize and express our dissatisfaction (see: attempted forum boycott due to removal of WDA).

The real problem here is that people think that taking things laying down is the only option. That's a rather poor way to go through life. Reminds me of something that happened just last week:

A buddy of mine needed a ride to the dealership to pick up his vehicle from an inspection. We arrived at 5:35, he asked me to wait just in case something goofy happened. About 10 minutes later, he comes back and asks if I can drive him home. Apparently he spoke to a service guy, who told him that they have a hard stop at 5:30, all computers are shut down, he's SOL, no vehicle for you.

AND MY BUDDY JUST TOOK IT LAYING DOWN!!!!

So I reminded him who the boss was. It's not the service guy, it's the customer. And I told him to follow me back in, that I'd straighten this out.

Ten minutes later, he drove away in his car (I used the "I'm not going away until you fix this" approach, worked like a charm).

We can make Turbine shape up, but not if you're willing to let them walk all over you.

I wonder what Turbine would think about the fact that they are the butt end of many jokes here at my place of employment. So far as I know, I'm the last remaining DDO player here... and everyone seems to take particular delight in asking me questions like:

"Did that mod come out yet? Is it ever coming out? Are you sure it exists? Why do you still play that game?". I typically can't answer the last question very well.

This is the opinion that people who DON'T PLAY THE GAME have developed as a result of Turbines handling of mod 9. Way to go, Turbine!

[Drwaz99]

Sitting back and taking it is not effective at all, as we have repeatedly proven over and over.

However, one person can't make them wake up, and we've shown next to no ability to organize and express our dissatisfaction (see: attempted forum boycott due to removal of WDA).

The real problem here is that people think that taking things laying down is the only option. That's a rather poor way to go through life. Reminds me of something that happened just last week:

A buddy of mine needed a ride to the dealership to pick up his vehicle from an inspection. We arrived at 5:35, he asked me to wait just in case something goofy happened. About 10 minutes later, he comes back and asks if I can drive him home. Apparently he spoke to a service guy, who told him that they have a hard stop at 5:30, all computers are shut down, he's SOL, no vehicle for you.

AND MY BUDDY JUST TOOK IT LAYING DOWN!!!!

So I reminded him who the boss was. It's not the service guy, it's the customer. And I told him to follow me back in, that I'd straighten this out.

Ten minutes later, he drove away in his car (I used the "I'm not going away until you fix this" approach, worked like a charm).

We can make Turbine shape up, but not if you're willing to let them walk all over you.

I wonder what Turbine would think about the fact that they are the butt end of many jokes here at my place of employment. So far as I know, I'm the last remaining DDO player here... and everyone seems to take particular delight in asking me questions like:

"Did that mod come out yet? Is it ever coming out? Are you sure it exists? Why do you still play that game?". I typically can't answer the last question very well.

This is the opinion that people who DON'T PLAY THE GAME have developed as a result of Turbines handling of mod 9. Way to go, Turbine!

Interesting analogy, but totally different circumstances and unfortunatley there really is one way we can force a hand, cancel superscriptions. Do you know what happens then? No mas DDO. We could all right letters, which promptly get thrown in thrash. Email or Pm's are easier to be rid of.

Since you used a dealership as a analogy, say you want a very specific car and only one dealership has it, but they tell you they won't have any in stock for another 3 months, which turns into 6, but you REALLY want the car. I'd bet you wait, no matter how frustrated you got becuase you know there is nothing you can do, other than retract and hope for your deposit back. In the end you have nothing. Is that what you want here?

So instead of coming up with analogies that don't accurately portray the situation, how about coming up with an idea that no one else has?

[Strakeln]

Interesting analogy, but totally different circumstances and unfortunatley there really is one way we can force a hand, cancel superscriptions. Do you know what happens then? No mas DDO. We could all right letters, which promptly get thrown in thrash. Email or Pm's are easier to be rid of.

Since you used a dealership as a analogy, say you want a very specific car and only one dealership has it, but they tell you they won't have any in stock for another 3 months, which turns into 6, but you REALLY want the car. I'd bet you wait, no matter how frustrated you got becuase you know there is nothing you can do, other than retract and hope for your deposit back. In the end you have nothing. Is that what you want here?

So instead of coming up with analogies that don't accurately portray the situation, how about coming up with an idea that no one else has?Hate to inform you, but the example wasn't an analogy. It's talking about taking things laying down and considering that the only option - much like you are doing here, not about specific methodology to follow.

I notice you used the phrase "...and hope you get your deposit back". That's exactly the kind of way of thought I'm talking about. And if they say "no", let me guess, you'll say "okay" and lose the deposit, right? In other words, you'd take it laying down, wouldn't you...

As far as coming up with an idea that no one else has... really? You can't think of a single thing? Do you really want to admit that? Well, no worries, there are plenty of ways to get Turbine to listen. Unfortunately, most require participation from people on these forums, who apparently prefer to take things laying down. One person cannot make Turbine change, but as a group we can. You just have to get off your ass. Something this community has shown it will not do. (Here's an example for you... (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=153832)) might have even worked if more than one person (me) participated. But no, the community would prefer to sit on their ass and whine rather than do something about it... and here we are, almost a year later, no WDAs.

Maybe next time, when someone tries to step up and do something, you'll actually lend a helping hand instead of taking it laying down. I won't hold my breath.

Edit: because I know you'll be saying "you didn't provide a solution!!": you seem to forget that canceling one's subscription is not an overnight task. One way we could get Turbine's attention would be to organize a mass "recurring payment" cancellation. Since the only way to kill off recurring payments is to cancel your account, we could round up everyone with a month or more left and ask them to cancel their recurring payments (cancel their account until payment becomes due). Organize it so that everyone who participates inputs the same thing in the "why did you cancel" box. Say, something like "LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM TURBINE." All it would take is maybe 100 participants for Turbine to take notice... but if we could get 1000, I bet we'd see change immediately.

Can you imagine that executive meeting?
Tolero: "1000 subscribers canceled on Tuesday, they all gave the same reason: lack of communication."
Turbine CEO: "From here on out, I expect every dev to post three times daily on the forums."

It's one example off the top of my head, it catches their attention without hosing us out of the game. There are plenty more ideas where that came from.

[soupertc]

Hate to inform you, but the example wasn't an analogy. It's talking about taking things laying down and considering that the only option - much like you are doing here, not about specific methodology to follow.

I notice you used the phrase "...and hope you get your deposit back". That's exactly the kind of way of thought I'm talking about. And if they say "no", let me guess, you'll say "okay" and lose the deposit, right? In other words, you'd take it laying down, wouldn't you...

As far as coming up with an idea that no one else has... really? You can't think of a single thing? Do you really want to admit that? Well, no worries, there are plenty of ways to get Turbine to listen. Unfortunately, most require participation from people on these forums, who apparently prefer to take things laying down. One person cannot make Turbine change, but as a group we can. You just have to get off your ass. Something this community has shown it will not do. (Here's an example for you... (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=153832)) might have even worked if more than one person (me) participated. But no, the community would prefer to sit on their ass and whine rather than do something about it... and here we are, almost a year later, no WDAs.

Maybe next time, when someone tries to step up and do something, you'll actually lend a helping hand instead of taking it laying down. I won't hold my breath.

I think maybe you should just quit or take a break for a bit if this game and the lack of the MOD or WDA's or any type of communcation is causing you the kinda grief it seems to be. I'm not a lay down kinda guy....and I'll stand up for my rights....but I have to say in the grand scheme of things DDO is pretty far down on my list of things to be taken care of. Yeah I spend $60 every 6 months...and yeah I'm a bit bored from time to time...but this whole thing is getting out of hand. When it's time to call something quits you normally get clear signs....I think you are there sir....of course that is just my opinion.

[Strakeln]

I think maybe you should just quit or take a break for a bit if this game and the lack of the MOD or WDA's or any type of communcation is causing you the kinda grief it seems to be. I'm not a lay down kinda guy....and I'll stand up for my rights....but I have to say in the grand scheme of things DDO is pretty far down on my list of things to be taken care of. Yeah I spend $60 every 6 months...and yeah I'm a bit bored from time to time...but this whole thing is getting out of hand. When it's time to call something quits you normally get clear signs....I think you are there sir....of course that is just my opinion.My grandfather told me something years ago that struck me as incredibly wise:

"Opinions are like ********, everyone has at least one."

I like your method of standing up for your rights: "When the going gets tough, I quit".

You, sir, are incorrect. You are very much a lay down kinda guy.

[soupertc]

My grandfather told me something years ago that struck me as incredibly wise:

"Opinions are like ********, everyone has at least one."

I like your method of standing up for your rights: "When the going gets tough, I quit".

You, sir, are incorrect. You are very much a lay down kinda guy.

lol.....coming from a grown man talking about a video game that really hurts man. I'm glad you got it so figured out.....now I can live easier knowing I really have seen a man act like a child. Perhaps you should heed your grandfathers advice a little more when posting.

[Drwaz99]

Hate to inform you, but the example wasn't an analogy. It's talking about taking things laying down and considering that the only option - much like you are doing here, not about specific methodology to follow.

I notice you used the phrase "...and hope you get your deposit back". That's exactly the kind of way of thought I'm talking about. And if they say "no", let me guess, you'll say "okay" and lose the deposit, right? In other words, you'd take it laying down, wouldn't you...

As far as coming up with an idea that no one else has... really? You can't think of a single thing? Do you really want to admit that? Well, no worries, there are plenty of ways to get Turbine to listen. Unfortunately, most require participation from people on these forums, who apparently prefer to take things laying down. One person cannot make Turbine change, but as a group we can. You just have to get off your ass. Something this community has shown it will not do. (Here's an example for you... (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=153832)) might have even worked if more than one person (me) participated. But no, the community would prefer to sit on their ass and whine rather than do something about it... and here we are, almost a year later, no WDAs.

Maybe next time, when someone tries to step up and do something, you'll actually lend a helping hand instead of taking it laying down. I won't hold my breath.

Edit: because I know you'll be saying "you didn't provide a solution!!": you seem to forget that canceling one's subscription is not an overnight task. One way we could get Turbine's attention would be to organize a mass "recurring payment" cancellation. Since the only way to kill off recurring payments is to cancel your account, we could round up everyone with a month or more left and ask them to cancel their recurring payments (cancel their account until payment becomes due). Organize it so that everyone who participates inputs the same thing in the "why did you cancel" box. Say, something like "LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM TURBINE." All it would take is maybe 100 participants for Turbine to take notice... but if we could get 1000, I bet we'd see change immediately.

Can you imagine that executive meeting?
Tolero: "1000 subscribers canceled on Tuesday, they all gave the same reason: lack of communication."
Turbine CEO: "From here on out, I expect every dev to post three times daily on the forums."

It's one example off the top of my head, it catches their attention without hosing us out of the game. There are plenty more ideas where that came from.

No, it's just that I am very good as choosing which battle I fight and those that aren't worth the cause. My time is more precious to me than to get X number of subscribers who aren't month to month together to cancel. That's not laying down, that's is prioritizing my time.

And to your "Hope" to get your deposit back comment; makes you look like the guy that blows his lid when things don't go his way, you can throw the biggest tantrum you want, you many never get it back, PERIOD. Get more with honey than vinegar all the time.
Obviously you haven't been in a corporate executive meeting anytime soon. DDO is 3 years old, long for any game, I can almost guarantee you the conversation would go like this:

"1000 people just canceled subscriptions for DDO last week."
"How much revenue we going to lose from that?"
" X Amount of money"
"Well we will just have to slash DDO budget somehow, Fernando, I want a TPS report on this on my desk By Weds!
"How are the other games going?"
"LoTRO is going great!"
"Well pull off some of the lesser needed debs and throw them onto LoTRO since it's bringing in more money."
Fernando and Kate respond "Well people are leaving DDO because of less content and communication, so pulling some people off is just going to hurt it more."
"What do you expect? It's three years old, I'll set up a meeting with Senior Devs to see if we can get a new game in the works."

Bottom line $ talks and BS walks. The head people don't care that we have been playing DDO for 30 yrs and we think it's the best game we've played. They are going to invest were they believe the will get the best return on their investment. Canceling is the exact opposite of what people should do to show their disdain for this snafu od SS V&M. If your just sick of the game and don't want to play, sure canceling is the correct option. Other wise my solution (or beginning I should say) is below.

Doubt me on any of this? Here's my experience: I have started 6 companies, sold them for many, many times they are worth and am retired at 29 (partially due to my disability, partially due to I have enough money to last me the rest of my life in the fashion I want to live {including inflation} and can do really whatever I want that my disability allows.) Masters in Business (thinking of going for PHD in something, just for the heck of it) and occasionally consult on the side with the new owners of my old businesses if I want to take a free vacation. If I didn't have a disability that prevents me from walking much (or driving, et, etc.) I would not even take the time to post here, I want the game to survive for those friends I have made that love this game millions of times more than I. Mod 9 comes when it does and there is nothing, you or any of us can do to make it come faster without killing the game completely. Ask around, I think many people will also tell you I am one of the most giving and nice guys around.

To start, we as a group on the forums need to start writing posts that are intelligent, non-insulting, and constructive. Until we can prove that we can do that, I guarantee you no information is going to get to us. Tolero, Tarrant, Eladrin, all of them all know that Mod 9 is going to have to be blockbuster or we are going to have the holocaust equivalent of people leaving. If it's not I guarantee you I will be on the phone getting my money back for my subscription. But I won't be screaming and yelling. All that get you is ignored.

[Thrudh]

You have TWO options...

Take this "terrible service" lying down...

Or quit...

You may think "standing up for yourself" on these forums is an option, but it's not.

A real man would have quit by now... without whining and crying... Have none of you ever played a MMO before? There comes a time when you've done everything, and it's not fun anymore. That's when you quit...

Someone with some internal honesty would probably thank the company for a couple of thousand hours of fun instead of hating them for not providing another couple of thousand...

It's not that big of a deal to be done with a GAME... A GAME!!!!!

[Strakeln]

lol.....coming from a grown man talking about a video game that really hurts man. I'm glad you got it so figured out.....now I can live easier knowing I really have seen a man act like a child. Perhaps you should heed your grandfathers advice a little more when posting.Let me get this straight...

If you say "I'm not a lay down kind of guy" and I say "yes you are", I'm acting like a child?

Sounds to me like someone is unable to actually come up with a valid argument, and are instead resorting to middle-school arguments about who is more mature. While moderately amusing, I highly recommend a different approach. You see, most adults stop being concerned about appearing mature the second they become an adult...

And really, pick up some better arguments than the ones you learned in 7th grade.

[Delacroix21]

Mod 9 isnt even close... Until the new content (not just the explorer) get released on Lamania for testing, will we even have a hope that it is coming soon. My guess? 3 months...


I have taken a break from DDO to wait... may even cancel while I wait to save money but logging in for the occasional raid is keeping my subsrciption current, for the moment at least.

[soupertc]

Let me get this straight...

If you say "I'm not a lay down kind of guy" and I say "yes you are", I'm acting like a child?

Sounds to me like someone is unable to actually come up with a valid argument, and are instead resorting to middle-school arguments about who is more mature. While moderately amusing, I highly recommend a different approach. You see, most adults stop being concerned about appearing mature the second they become an adult...

And really, pick up some better arguments than the ones you learned in 7th grade.

your replies sir are showing your maturity level. I was never stating anything other than what your grandfather said we all did. You said it was wise....perhpas you didn't listen. I'm not here to argue with you.....but I've noticed in all your post if someone diagrees with you you tend to blast em and go to childish lengths. All I said was maybe you just need to quit....that you are expending alot of energy on something as simple as a Video Game....I have better things to do then worry about when the next MOD is coming out......yes I do get bored like I said from time to time.....but I'm not joining some self rightouess campaign agaisnt Turbine cause I simply at this point don't care.

So if bashing people for saying what they feel like is somehow only your right and your right alone than by all means keep doing it. I never stooped to your level and named called I was simply stating an opinion.....not absoulte facts like you seem to do.....but once again....ending in the 7th grade sentence was classic....good job.

I guess I did name call....lol. But come on man......are you really freakin this ****ed about DDO??

[Drwaz99]

Guys, please just for once, you can disagree all you want, but make your post mature. I am not implying that any have not been yet, I just am sick of topics getting locked when people can't control their emotions...over a game nonetheless.

[Strakeln]

No, it's just that I am very good as choosing which battle I fight and those that aren't worth the cause. My time is more precious to me than to get X number of subscribers who aren't month to month together to cancel. That's not laying down, that's is prioritizing my time.

And to your "Hope" to get your deposit back comment; makes you look like the guy that blows his lid when things don't go his way, you can throw the biggest tantrum you want, you many never get it back, PERIOD. Get more with honey than vinegar all the time.Look, I'd love to have this discussion with you, but you're going to have to stop putting words into my mouth.

For someone who claims to have bundles of business experience and acumen, it strikes me as odd that you think the only way to get things done is to blow your lid. Anyone in possession of the knowledge you lay claim to knows there's many other approaches that are equally if not more effective.


Obviously you haven't been in a corporate executive meeting anytime soon.I think you mean "...anytime recently". While I think this has little bearing on the argument, I will admit that it has been a few days. Of course, I work for a large company, one where the CEO doesn't moonlight as the developer... so perhaps my experience is more relevant...


Doubt me on any of this? Here's my experience: I have started 6 companies, sold them for many, many times they are worth and am retired at 29 (partially due to my disability, partially due to I have enough money to last me the rest of my life in the fashion I want to live {including inflation} and can do really whatever I want that my disability allows.) Masters in Business (thinking of going for PHD in something, just for the heck of it) and occasionally consult on the side with the new owners of my old businesses if I want to take a free vacation. If I didn't have a disability that prevents me from walking much (or driving, et, etc.) I would not even take the time to post here, I want the game to survive for those friends I have made that love this game millions of times more than I. Mod 9 comes when it does and there is nothing, you or any of us can do to make it come faster without killing the game completely. Ask around, I think many people will also tell you I am one of the most giving and nice guys around.While I'd love to be impressed with the couple little online startups you sold, I'm afraid that it really doesn't give you the business experience you seem to think it does. Not exactly a good representation of a business when it's you bossing yourself around.

(kind of annoying when someone puts words in your mouth, isn't it?)

Gratz on the MBA. I share similar qualifications. Doesn't really change the argument, does it? If you do a little research, you will find that I am one of the best known people in the game, and am known far and wide for my generosity. And once again, this still doesn't impact the argument, does it? So what is the point of all of this?


To start, we as a group on the forums need to start writing posts that are intelligent, non-insulting, and constructive. Until we can prove that we can do that, I guarantee you no information is going to get to us. Tolero, Tarrant, Eladrin, all of them all know that Mod 9 is going to have to be blockbuster or we are going to have the holocaust equivalent of people leaving. If it's not I guarantee you I will be on the phone getting my money back for my subscription. But I won't be screaming and yelling. All that get you is ignored.How is it that you can suggest what has already been done, something that has been proven to not work? We used to do what you suggest, before they stopped communicating (to be clear, I'm talking about the overall problem that started about a year ago, not the recent disappearances).

So let me get this straight: if Turbine stops communicating with us, we should continue on as if nothing happened, and we should avoid at all costs voicing our dissatisfaction. Sure sounds like taking it laying down to me...

[Mithran]

Sitting back and taking it is not effective at all, as we have repeatedly proven over and over.

However, one person can't make them wake up, and we've shown next to no ability to organize and express our dissatisfaction (see: attempted forum boycott due to removal of WDA).

The real problem here is that people think that taking things laying down is the only option. That's a rather poor way to go through life. Reminds me of something that happened just last week:

A buddy of mine needed a ride to the dealership to pick up his vehicle from an inspection. We arrived at 5:35, he asked me to wait just in case something goofy happened. About 10 minutes later, he comes back and asks if I can drive him home. Apparently he spoke to a service guy, who told him that they have a hard stop at 5:30, all computers are shut down, he's SOL, no vehicle for you.

AND MY BUDDY JUST TOOK IT LAYING DOWN!!!!

So I reminded him who the boss was. It's not the service guy, it's the customer. And I told him to follow me back in, that I'd straighten this out.

Ten minutes later, he drove away in his car (I used the "I'm not going away until you fix this" approach, worked like a charm).

We can make Turbine shape up, but not if you're willing to let them walk all over you.

I wonder what Turbine would think about the fact that they are the butt end of many jokes here at my place of employment. So far as I know, I'm the last remaining DDO player here... and everyone seems to take particular delight in asking me questions like:

"Did that mod come out yet? Is it ever coming out? Are you sure it exists? Why do you still play that game?". I typically can't answer the last question very well.

This is the opinion that people who DON'T PLAY THE GAME have developed as a result of Turbines handling of mod 9. Way to go, Turbine!

The resources Turbine has that are devoted to DDO have been diminishing for some time (by necessity, from a business perspective). My impression is that the Necropolis expansion was almost a game killer for DDO and that it's only because of its very loyal core players that the game has survived the Necropolis work.

For this reason, I've been positive about developments that have made this game more friendly for new players and I haven't added my voice to the rising volume of Forums complaints about the apparent delays regarding the release of Mod-9.

I've rerolled probably more than anyone else, and while I did dutifully prepared a new roll of my Paladin main for the new expansion, I'm forced to admit that I'm getting bored with the game.

[Strakeln]

I was never stating anything other than what your grandfather said we all did.

All I said was maybe you just need to quit....that you are expending alot of energy on something as simple as a Video GameGo re-read your posts, that was not all you stated (it appears that later in this post, you did exactly that, and realized that your post was not as constrained as you apparently thought it was).

You should note that it requires minimal energy from me to type a few forum posts. You should probably also note that you've expended almost the same amount of energy telling me that you think expending energy in such a way is foolish. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.


I have better things to do then worry about when the next MOD is coming outExcellent! Why are you here arguing with me then? I thought it wasn't worth wasting your energy?


but I'm not joining some self rightouess campaign agaisnt Turbine cause I simply at this point don't care.Did someone ask you to join? Is there even a campaign to join? Or are you referring to the link I posted, which was about a year old?


So if bashing people for saying what they feel like is somehow only your right and your right alone than by all means keep doing it. I never stooped to your level and named called I was simply stating an opinion.....not absoulte facts like you seem to do.....but once again....ending in the 7th grade sentence was classic....good job.

I guess I did name call....lol. But come on man......are you really freakin this ****ed about DDO??No. I'm three posts worth of ****ed.

I'll make three posts on almost any topic you can think of. So either I'm "really freakin this ****ed" about everything, or this is just another forum with another topic on something I enjoy discussing. I'll let you decide which.

[Drwaz99]

Look, I'd love to have this discussion with you, but you're going to have to stop putting words into my mouth.

For someone who claims to have bundles of business experience and acumen, it strikes me as odd that you think the only way to get things done is to blow your lid. Anyone in possession of the knowledge you lay claim to knows there's many other approaches that are equally if not more effective.

I think you mean "...anytime recently". While I think this has little bearing on the argument, I will admit that it has been a few days. Of course, I work for a large company, one where the CEO doesn't moonlight as the developer... so perhaps my experience is more relevant...

While I'd love to be impressed with the couple little online startups you sold, I'm afraid that it really doesn't give you the business experience you seem to think it does. Not exactly a good representation of a business when it's you bossing yourself around.

(kind of annoying when someone puts words in your mouth, isn't it?)

Gratz on the MBA. I share similar qualifications. Doesn't really change the argument, does it? If you do a little research, you will find that I am one of the best known people in the game, and am known far and wide for my generosity. And once again, this still doesn't impact the argument, does it? So what is the point of all of this?

How is it that you can suggest what has already been done, something that has been proven to not work? We used to do what you suggest, before they stopped communicating (to be clear, I'm talking about the overall problem that started about a year ago, not the recent disappearances).

So let me get this straight: if Turbine stops communicating with us, we should continue on as if nothing happened, and we should avoid at all costs voicing our dissatisfaction. Sure sounds like taking it laying down to me...

A. Re-read my post. Just as you think I am putting words in your mouth, you really just skimmed or skipped over most of my post. I said blowing you lid gets you no where and the tone of your previous posts makes me think that you could possibly that of that personality type.

B. I used you hypothetical possible solution to express why I think that is the wrong thing to do, I am not putting words in you mouth, and if it seems that way, my apologies.

C. You must work for a company that actually cares about what their customers think. In reality (from my experience at least) most don't. They make decisions based off of what will make them the most money, usually I find that the customer's input means very little unless it makes them more money.

D. Implying that I started small Internet start-ups was a cute little jab. I honestly know enough about computers to say I am an above average user of Windows and Office. All my businesses were free standing, real life (instead of Internet) businesses. I just worked my butt off working going to school full time and the rest getting them going. I honestly don't remember if I slept much at all in that time period. Bossing myself around means nothing. If I sucked, they would have never got off the ground, nor would they have been bought for more than I invested. So yes, being your own boss does have it's way of showing whether you were successful at it.

E. Tarrant (I believe but don't quote me on that) has explicitly came out and said if all they were going to be is torn up after releasing info they weren't going to so anymore. Hence my statement.

F. And finally, to show you only skimmed my post. I am not laying down, I choose my battles. Nothing we can do can change anything as this very moment that will get people what they want. Mod 9 and communication. This forum was one of the worst moderated forums until recently. It's nice to see that they FINALLY took action to those that had nothing constructive to say and just decided to make every post of theirs a mockery of someone trying to get an honest answer or ask a question. Did you not see where I said that they already know that if Mod 9 isn't spectacular, it's more than likely a game killer? No, because you didn't read it (or you ignored it).

Nothing personal, but your opinion isn't shared by the majority of the people in the thread. There have been many many posts on how disappointed in Turbine we are. You know what happens then? They get locked. I am not going to spend time tying to find the upper managements emails or phone numbers (which I can do through family that works with one of their partners), becuase THEY ALREADY KNOW, and if they cared, we would have something other than Soon (Tm), VM, and SS.

My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.

[sisterjinx]

Though the OPs post makes more sense than I care to admit and does make me a bit queasy as well, I have to say that in this one case I disagree.
With the grand exodus already begun I don't think Turbine dares to make a date announcement. I don't even think they will at all. I believe that what will happen is one night the servers will go down, not so unusual, and we will get all the standard excuses. However we will come back to have updates downloading. I think they will hit us with this one as a suprise because to do any different they are going to risk losing MORE of their DEDICATED player base. So many have already left and others are planning to do so. I think ANY kind of date announcement or the inevitable disappointment to follow would be too risky at this point.
Look for this mod as a suprise and nothing else. I also believe there will be more to it than they have shared with us on notes or on the test server. So before you cancel that subscription or give your stuff away, stick around and at least see what is on the horizon. If it doesn't turn out to be something MORE than we expected or something you can live with then pack up and go but at least wait and see. I think we are in for a suprise.
(and no I'm not defending Turbine. I think that the way they have handled this Mod and their customers recently is appalling but I don't believe they are stupid enough to announce a date this time. I could be wrong but I think that would be a fatal mistake and if they do it then it is on purpose because they want to kill the game)

[soupertc]

I think maybe you should just quit or take a break for a bit if this game and the lack of the MOD or WDA's or any type of communcation is causing you the kinda grief it seems to be. I'm not a lay down kinda guy....and I'll stand up for my rights....but I have to say in the grand scheme of things DDO is pretty far down on my list of things to be taken care of. Yeah I spend $60 every 6 months...and yeah I'm a bit bored from time to time...but this whole thing is getting out of hand. When it's time to call something quits you normally get clear signs....I think you are there sir....of course that is just my opinion.


Go re-read your posts, that was not all you stated (it appears that later in this post, you did exactly that, and realized that your post was not as constrained as you apparently thought it was).

You should note that it requires minimal energy from me to type a few forum posts. You should probably also note that you've expended almost the same amount of energy telling me that you think expending energy in such a way is foolish. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Excellent! Why are you here arguing with me then? I thought it wasn't worth wasting your energy?

Did someone ask you to join? Is there even a campaign to join? Or are you referring to the link I posted, which was about a year old?

No. I'm three posts worth of ****ed.

I'll make three posts on almost any topic you can think of. So either I'm "really freakin this ****ed" about everything, or this is just another forum with another topic on something I enjoy discussing. I'll let you decide which.

My 1st post is included.....it doesn't state an arguement. It just says what I felt. Sometimes the written word is hard to interpret from the otherside...but you sir took it as attack when it wasn't. It does seem to me you need a break......or just quit. Banging against a brickwall is just that. I'm no fanboi....but I see your post all over the place griping about the game.....it seems kinda pathectic to me. I love this game...love all the friends I made....but in the long run it's just a game to me......I'm not a rich man by any means, but the amount I spend in this game isn't that much to me. If this game inpacted my life in anyway then perhaps I would take a stand......but it doesn't. Like I said ealrier it was never about an arguement....you just took it that way in your pent up DDO anger I guess.

I think you might be better served if you argued a little less....I mean not all of us are from Kyhber so were not use to the drama. Keep on keeping on though.

[Strakeln]

A. Re-read my post. Just as you think I am putting words in your mouth, you really just skimmed or skipped over most of my post. I said blowing you lid gets you no where and the tone of your previous posts makes me think that you could possibly that of that personality type.When the situation calls for it, sure. As you noted, it's typically not the best method. I'm a fan of the "I'm not leaving/hanging up until this is fixed" method.

I understood what you were saying. I spoke to the way of thinking ("hope you get your deposit back") and your response twisted that into making me "look like the guy that blows his lid when things don't go his way". You made no mention of the tone of my previous posts until now, instead, you stated that not having the "hope you get it your deposit back" attitude was the sole cause of your assumption.


C. You must work for a company that actually cares about what their customers think. In reality (from my experience at least) most don't. They make decisions based off of what will make them the most money, usually I find that the customer's input means very little unless it makes them more money.Those that make decisions in favor of making more money while disregarding their customer's input will often succeed at their goal... in the short term. There's much more money to be made over the next 30 years than there will be in the next 3.


D. Implying that I started small Internet start-ups was a cute little jab. I honestly know enough about computers to say I am an above average user of Windows and Office. All my businesses were free standing, real life (instead of Internet) businesses. I just worked my butt off working going to school full time and the rest getting them going. I honestly don't remember if I slept much at all in that time period. Bossing myself around means nothing. If I sucked, they would have never got off the ground, nor would they have been bought for more than I invested. So yes, being your own boss does have it's way of showing whether you were successful at it.So, uh, "obviously you haven't been in a corporate executive meeting anytime soon", eh?

The Internet start-up wasn't a jab in terms of what it was (a business is a business, you have my respect for accomplishing that (multiple times)). It was a response to your "executive meeting" comment (implying that you have been). I found it funny to hear, because the reality was exactly the opposite. While you can technically call a 1 or 2 person company meeting a "corporate executive meeting", we all know it's not even close to the same thing.


E. Tarrant (I believe but don't quote me on that) has explicitly came out and said if all they were going to be is torn up after releasing info they weren't going to so anymore. Hence my statement.The communication was cut off long before Tarrant's recent post that you reference. It started almost a year ago with the death of the WDAs and has been steadily getting worse ever since.


F. And finally, to show you only skimmed my post. I am not laying down, I choose my battles. Nothing we can do can change anything as this very moment that will get people what they want.A matter of perspective. You consider it choosing your battles because you consider this one un-winnable; I say that the only reason it's un-winnable is because there are too many people willing to lay down and give up without a fight.


Mod 9 and communication. This forum was one of the worst moderated forums until recently. It's nice to see that they FINALLY took action to those that had nothing constructive to say and just decided to make every post of theirs a mockery of someone trying to get an honest answer or ask a question. Did you not see where I said that they already know that if Mod 9 isn't spectacular, it's more than likely a game killer? No, because you didn't read it (or you ignored it).Sure, I saw it. It didn't seem particularly relevant, and I agreed with it - so I didn't quote and respond to it. I know they know it had better be blockbuster. But by this point, we're not talking about mod 9's quality, we're talking about the lacking communication with their customers... something that has been an ongoing problem, it is not at all new.


Nothing personal, but your opinion isn't shared by the majority of the people in the thread. There have been many many posts on how disappointed in Turbine we are. You know what happens then? They get locked. I am not going to spend time tying to find the upper managements emails or phone numbers (which I can do through family that works with one of their partners), becuase THEY ALREADY KNOW, and if they cared, we would have something other than Soon (Tm), VM, and SS.Considering that attempting to use "most of us feel this way" arguments will always get you a "less than 2% of the population comes to the forums" response, I hardly think that majority opinions in single threads qualify as anything even remotely close to a scientific measurement.

I'm not convinced that Turbine's leadership is aware of our dissatisfaction. Have any links or quotes from Turbine Execs mentioning it? (no, Kate doesn't even come remotely close).


My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.My response to your challenge was, I can't do it without help from you and everyone else. I know, because I tried. My attempt was an attention grab, something that wouldn't hurt DDO in the long run (and arguably not even in the short run).

Look, I can come up with plenty of ideas that fit into your qualifications. Ideas aren't the problem, apathetic "ah, nothing we do matters, so we shouldn't do anything" attitudes are the problem.

I say, put your money where your mouth is. I'm willing to give another shot at getting attention to our concerns without hurting the game, are you willing to put aside the apathy and fight for the game you love?

[Strakeln]

My 1st post is included.....it doesn't state an arguement. It just says what I felt.Uh-huh. Then below that you find a response from me, to which you responded, to which I responded, to which you responded...

Applicable definitions of argument:


- Discourse intended to persuade
- A coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion

Look, I can tell that you care about this game only enough to tell others to not fight for it and that they should quit. I understand that this effort is somehow less exerting for you than wasting that same energy trying to convince someone at Turbine to straighten things out. Thanks for doing your part, I'm certain that repeatedly attempting to talk people into quitting will somehow result in more subscriptions....

Nice plan. :rolleyes:

[Dark_Helmet]

I don't disagree with what people are saying as much as how they are saying it.


My analogy:

I went into a fast food restaurant. I ordered something simple and ate there. I watched as some orders came quick and others were missed (guess I was lucky?). As I was eating I saw a very annoying person complaining about the speed at which they were getting her meal. She was berating them. They only apologized and finally gave her the food.
Later, I decided to order something to take with me. It seems I was unlucky as I sat there 10 minutes as food went by. I finally went up to the counter and politely asked if it was ready or did I miss them calling my number (shared fault scenario). They noticed it should have gone out and apologized - giving me a coupon for a free item the next time I came back. I also noticed this happened more to understanding people than people who berated others.


Maybe the manner in which people are posting (which is against the forum rules) or using LFMs is not right. Maybe each person needs to send an E-mail through the proper channels to express their displeasure (kind of like a letter writing campaign, but format it politely). If quitting, properly fill out the survey like a reasonable human being and not like a spoiled brat demanding something.

The support staff in-game is different than the forum staff which is different than management.

..anyone got Kate's E-mail address and someone want to put together a sane form letter?

[soupertc]

Uh-huh. Then below that you find a response from me, to which you responded, to which I responded, to which you responded...

Applicable definitions of argument:



Look, I can tell that you care about this game only enough to tell others to not fight for it and that they should quit. I understand that this effort is somehow less exerting for you than wasting that same energy trying to convince someone at Turbine to straighten things out. Thanks for doing your part, I'm certain that repeatedly attempting to talk people into quitting will somehow result in more subscriptions....

Nice plan. :rolleyes:

I tell ya what man....I will just bow down to your vast forum intellect. I will do what most married men learned long ago to appease the women in thier lives....."Your Right." I know were not married....but since we both play the same game I thought it might apply.

[Strakeln]

Maybe the manner in which people are posting (which is against the forum rules) or using LFMs is not right.Not sure if you're referring to me or not, but if you are, I encourage you to report any of my posts you felt were in violation. The only violations I noticed were by soupertc, but they were really pretty mild and ignorable, IMO.

I applaud your non-apathetic stance. We need more people willing to lift a finger to save their game around here.

[Maegin]

Yeah, just unsub till it comes out. :/ Easy fix.

[Strakeln]

I tell ya what man....I will just bow down to your vast forum intellect. I will do what most married men learned long ago to appease the women in thier lives....."Your Right." I know were not married....but since we both play the same game I thought it might apply.You'll make someone a good housewife someday :p

No hard feelings, dude, at least on this end. You stated your piece. Know that it's not the game I'm sick of... I love this game, I don't want it to go away. I want it to grow, and continue growing... but Turbine's decision making sure makes it seem like they have different goals.

[Strakeln]

Yeah, just unsub till it comes out. :/ Easy fix.For many, that's not an acceptable option. Many are locked in the $9.99 special, canceling their subscription for any amount of time will cause them to lose that.

It also does nothing to address the communication issue.

It will certainly work for some, though.

[soupertc]

You'll make someone a good housewife someday :p

No hard feelings, dude, at least on this end. You stated your piece. Know that it's not the game I'm sick of... I love this game, I don't want it to go away. I want it to grow, and continue growing... but Turbine's decision making sure makes it seem like they have different goals.

Like I said man....it was never an attack. I know this whole MOD 9 thing is a sensitve subject. I'm glad people are passionate about it....but I'm a fence rider on this issue. I can see both sides from there....call me the Switzerland of DDO if ya will. I've read your post before Straklen....I know your M.O. I have no hard feelings....but I'm still right. :)(that was sarcasm so we don't start again by the way!!!!)

[stoc]

Let me start by saying that I side in this little discussion with Strakeln (I got your back bro).

If you look at other games (i.e. Guild Wars, Diablo, etc) you pay for your expansions as they come out. Otherwise the game time is free. In this scenario it is up to the company when to release mods, updates, expansions, whatever you want to call them.

The way I look at DDO is I pay a monthly fee mainly to promote the development of the game. If this money is not used to do this I am being taken advantage of. With the current hold ups and lack of communication on this I think that we, as a gaming community, are definitely being taken advantage of. I understand that things happen and at times are unavoidable but to remain silent and tell your customers tough **** if you don’t like it here is the door is ****. How many other businesses would exist with this type of attitude?

Below find just one example of if you don't like it leave posts I have seen many of from the Turbine Team as posted by Tarrant (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182400) at this link.

"Threats of canceling your service are not going to convince us to give out the information you want any more than politely worded requests are. We hope that you continue to subscribe and enjoy DDO, but we understand that your patience is wearing thin at this point. If you quit then we hope that you enjoy wherever you end up and that you'll return to DDO one day in the future."

In short Strakeln is correct in stating that some, including myself, are locked into a six month plan; three of them to be exact. The only reason I am not demanding my money back right now is that I like the game when it is taken care of but more than that I have a lot of friends here. But I am loosing both reasons to stick around. I am not having fun anymore as the content is old and stale and all of my friends log in very infrequently. So before all of you jump on Strakeln for his opinion, which I support, I suggest you look at what you are getting in return for your hard earned dollar. After all this is all that is being said here we are paying for something that is not forthcomming and there is 0 information about. If you are good with that fine but don’t bash someone else for finding a different conclusion.

[Strakeln]

My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.Okay, Drwaz99, I have come up with something that will both garner attention and not hurt DDO in the long or short run... in fact, it will benefit DDO.

Start a thread asking anyone who is on the $9.99/month special and unhappy with the <current situation> to sign up to cancel and immediately renew their subscription on <specific date>. Come up with a single message for everyone to input, like "more communication please", so that it is obvious everything is connected.

The net result? Each of these players is demonstrating to Turbine that they are serious about loving this game and want it to succeed, to the point that they will voluntarily pay $5 more per month. It's likely to be noticed. At the same time, it will get Turbine additional revenue.

It's a shot across the bow with some encouragement. My challenge to you: make it happen. Shake the apathy, take this idea, and try to make it happen.

[Cjarr]

I just thank god I got in on 9.99. The $30+ I saved waiting for mod 9 is almost 2 tanks of gas! :)

wow...... around here $30 would get you one tank of gas- if you only have a 12 gallon tank.

So either your riding around on a motorcycle.......or you live in an area with much cheaper gasoline prices.......

Either way....I'm jealous:D

[Cjarr]

but if we could get 1000, I bet we'd see change immediately.

Can you imagine that executive meeting?
Tolero: "1000 subscribers canceled on Tuesday, they all gave the same reason: lack of communication."
Turbine CEO: "From here on out, I expect every dev to post three times daily on the forums."

It's one example off the top of my head, it catches their attention without hosing us out of the game. There are plenty more ideas where that came from.

I bet we wouldn't.

Seems an odd approach, such as your boycott of the forums......that would accomplish what???? save them the time and energy of having to moderate??
Maybe we could all go on a hunger strike next?????

They have lost large numbers of subscripts (not all at once, but the numbers have left) and it has really changed nothing. A mass exodus would cause most likely and quick apology and maybe a loot weekend, unless it was too large, then the game just shuts down.

Congrats on saving your buddy's car but, seriously, not that impressive.
This is a situation where essentially, there aren't a whole lot of options. We can rant and accept it, silently accept it, or quit???? And even though I'm sure you will whine and scream that I just take things laying down, you would be wrong.....but that doesn't really matter to you.

[Kaldaka]

I remember plenty of MOD updates with less than a week's notice ...

[Strakeln]

I bet we wouldn't.

Seems an odd approach, such as your boycott of the forums......that would accomplish what???? save them the time and energy of having to moderate??
Maybe we could all go on a hunger strike next?????

They have lost large numbers of subscripts (not all at once, but the numbers have left) and it has really changed nothing. A mass exodus would cause most likely and quick apology and maybe a loot weekend, unless it was too large, then the game just shuts down.

Congrats on saving your buddy's car but, seriously, not that impressive.
This is a situation where essentially, there aren't a whole lot of options. We can rant and accept it, silently accept it, or quit???? And even though I'm sure you will whine and scream that I just take things laying down, you would be wrong.....but that doesn't really matter to you.You must have learned to argue from Quanefel.

There are options, lots of them, but without a united approach towards exercising said options, nothing will happen.

Two posts above yours, I have provided an option that does the following:
1) Lets Turbine know that as a group we are not satisfied with how things are currently
2) Lets Turbine know that as a group we love this game and want to see it succeed
3) Provides Turbine additional revenue to help with #2.

But even this will fail miserably without community support. That's right, even giving Turbine money will not work if people like you refuse to try.

Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the plus side, at least you know who to blame.

Regarding my buddy's car... hello? The point of that story was not to impress, the point was to show that if you take things laying down, you don't get results. About the only impressive thing about that story is how the service guy somehow convinced my buddy that he couldn't get his car back until the next day.

[Aspenor]

So I guess the statements Turbine made saying "new years 2009" or "around the anniversary" weren't real statements....

interesting.

[Drwaz99]

You must have learned to argue from Quanefel.

There are options, lots of them, but without a united approach towards exercising said options, nothing will happen.

Two posts above yours, I have provided an option that does the following:
1) Lets Turbine know that as a group we are not satisfied with how things are currently
2) Lets Turbine know that as a group we love this game and want to see it succeed
3) Provides Turbine additional revenue to help with #2.

But even this will fail miserably without community support. That's right, even giving Turbine money will not work if people like you refuse to try.

Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the plus side, at least you know who to blame.

Regarding my buddy's car... hello? The point of that story was not to impress, the point was to show that if you take things laying down, you don't get results. About the only impressive thing about that story is how the service guy somehow convinced my buddy that he couldn't get his car back until the next day.

1. Is the tailgate party sticky thread.
2. Almost every goodbye thread and even many of the frustration posts say we love the game.
3. We cannot provide them revenue when they cannot produce a product. I renewed on the premise/"hinting" that Mod 9 was imminent (within a a month or so in February), so I have wasted 3 of my 6 months doing the same thing over and over. They already have my money, and many others people many for many more months, yet we have nothing.

They need new players, but I guarantee you if a new player even scans the first page of the General forum, there is no way they are going to subscribe. I would doubt that many people would recommend it to a friend.

I applaud your attempts to get the community together, but really as some other people have mentioned, on this are hands are tied.

[Strakeln]

I applaud your attempts to get the community together, but really as some other people have mentioned, on this are hands are tied.They're tied alright, but with invisible rope that we applied ourselves.

Your original challenge:


My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want.

I have met your challenge, and I believe I have passed it with flying colors. At the same time, I feel I have proven my point: the problem here is apathy. There are plenty of potential ways to push Turbine into being the gaming supplier we want and deserve, but if no one is ever willing to lift a finger, nothing will change.

[Drwaz99]

Did you ignore the part where I listed where the items you brought up were and we are still in the exact same spot after each one? Come on now, this is no time for selective reading.


I have met your challenge, and I believe I have passed it with flying colors. At the same time, I feel I have proven my point: the problem here is apathy. There are plenty of potential ways to push Turbine into being the gaming supplier we want and deserve, but if no one is ever willing to lift a finger, nothing will change.

My apologies I must have missed this because I haven't seen it.

[weyoun]

Eating our own it seems. DDO Jebus, please grant us Mod 9.

[Strakeln]

Did you ignore the part where I listed where the items you brought up were and we are still in the exact same spot after each one? Come on now, this is no time for selective reading.Are you talking about this?


1. Is the tailgate party sticky thread.
2. Almost every goodbye thread and even many of the frustration posts say we love the game.
3. We cannot provide them revenue when they cannot produce a product. I renewed on the premise/"hinting" that Mod 9 was imminent (within a a month or so in February), so I have wasted 3 of my 6 months doing the same thing over and over. They already have my money, and many others people many for many more months, yet we have nothing.If so, no, I didn't miss it... I just ignored it for its obvious dismissive nature. You're essentially trying to say "we've already done everything, and none of it worked". You know as well as I do that a few random comments scattered across a forum does not equate to what can be gained through organized cooperation.

In other words, you're making excuses as to why you aren't going to lift a finger (instead of simply admitting you don't want to lift a finger).

Keep in mind, your original stance was "there's nothing we can do". I'm only attempting to show you that the real problem is "there's nothing we will try", and doing so within the bounds you suggested (finding something no one has tried that won't hurt DDO and works towards getting what we want).


My apologies I must have missed this because I don't want to see it.I think this is a more correct version of that statement.

[Magnicallus]

Sitting back and taking it is not effective at all, as we have repeatedly proven over and over.

However, one person can't make them wake up, and we've shown next to no ability to organize and express our dissatisfaction (see: attempted forum boycott due to removal of WDA).

The real problem here is that people think that taking things laying down is the only option. That's a rather poor way to go through life. Reminds me of something that happened just last week:

A buddy of mine needed a ride to the dealership to pick up his vehicle from an inspection. We arrived at 5:35, he asked me to wait just in case something goofy happened. About 10 minutes later, he comes back and asks if I can drive him home. Apparently he spoke to a service guy, who told him that they have a hard stop at 5:30, all computers are shut down, he's SOL, no vehicle for you.

AND MY BUDDY JUST TOOK IT LAYING DOWN!!!!

So I reminded him who the boss was. It's not the service guy, it's the customer. And I told him to follow me back in, that I'd straighten this out.

Ten minutes later, he drove away in his car (I used the "I'm not going away until you fix this" approach, worked like a charm).

We can make Turbine shape up, but not if you're willing to let them walk all over you.

I wonder what Turbine would think about the fact that they are the butt end of many jokes here at my place of employment. So far as I know, I'm the last remaining DDO player here... and everyone seems to take particular delight in asking me questions like:

"Did that mod come out yet? Is it ever coming out? Are you sure it exists? Why do you still play that game?". I typically can't answer the last question very well.

This is the opinion that people who DON'T PLAY THE GAME have developed as a result of Turbines handling of mod 9. Way to go, Turbine!


Are you the one whom writes all those dumba$$ chainletters that fill up my yahoo ??

[stewy1956]

i hear the new star wars is in beta testing now

[Strakeln]

Are you the one whom writes all those dumba$$ chainletters that fill up my yahoo ??lol

****, busted.

[Damionic]

Reading through most of the thread..

Its mostly this..group A moaning to group B that (In which group B is sadly the majority) all they do is **** and moan..but when it comes to action..they just don't want the hassle.

I am more of the alpha in this respect..even though to some mud slingers im treated as a "troll"

I have been very active in trying to change are lot..(my last thread was Eye of the Storm)

But sadly..the mantra is correct

One person can not change this BS.

But in teaching the "others" to stand up for what they care about...one person will "empower" the "others" into action..

And with the masses speaking as one..nothing can ignore the thunder.

You have had the power all along..you just need to "use" it.

[Drwaz99]

Are you talking about this?

If so, no, I didn't miss it... I just ignored it for its obvious dismissive nature. You're essentially trying to say "we've already done everything, and none of it worked". You know as well as I do that a few random comments scattered across a forum does not equate to what can be gained through organized cooperation.

In other words, you're making excuses as to why you aren't going to lift a finger (instead of simply admitting you don't want to lift a finger).

Keep in mind, your original stance was "there's nothing we can do". I'm only attempting to show you that the real problem is "there's nothing we will try", and doing so within the bounds you suggested (finding something no one has tried that won't hurt DDO and works towards getting what we want).

I think this is a more correct version of that statement.

Putting words in someones mouth (again, wasn't there and agreement about that): $0
Ranting and raving that the community has done nothing to voice their displeasure.: $0
Ignoring parts of posts that point out your ideas are being done to no avail: $0
Not getting the fact no matter what we do we will get Mpd 9 when we get it: $0

Having someone else call you and email spammer due to crazy posts: Priceless

[Stealthdog]

I don't think I have ever even posted on these threads. But I have been with the game since late 2006. The simple fact is that hundreds (or even thousands) of players apparently still enjoy the content and have fun with the game - a delay in a relase of a mod (even if it is a few months) is not going to drive those casual players away. Those who post on these boards probably represent a small faction of hard-core everyday players. I sympathize because it probably does suck for those who feel that the game doesn't offer anything more to them. I play somewhere between 4-6 hours per week. At this rate, I would probably lose interest with the game in about 3-4 years if there are no updates. The best thing for those who don't have interest in the game anymore is probably to cancel your account and restart when mod 9 hits. I don't think the financial hit to the game would be significant to force them to do something, but you never know.

[Strakeln]

Not getting the fact no matter what we do we will get Mpd 9 when we get it: $0Still thinking this has anything to do with making mod 9 come out on any other day: clueless. In case I haven't mentioned it before: this is about


The communication

the communication issue.

"more communication please"

lack of communication

lacking communication with their customers

[Drwaz99]

Still thinking this has anything to do with making mod 9 come out on any other day: clueless. In case I haven't mentioned it before: this is about

They can't/won't tell us. What is there to debate? Tolero said she would love to but can't. They won't even tell us why they can't tell us. I have asked, numerous people have asked. We just have to wait and see in this instance. They did and awesome job of giving up some of what is to come in Mod 9 back in December when they tricked us into thinking it was February-ish for the release date. Many people don't remember that. They also have us a partial release notes. Granted nothing on there was anything we felt needed to be added, the Suggestion forum is just a place invented to make them think we might have a say of what goes into the game.

I will make a post asking what we, as a player base can from the Turbine teams opinion to see how we can improve the lack of communication. See how long it lasts, my bet is before I get up (I sleep in).

[GlassCannon]

Cool. That gives me time to outfit some newer characters for the MOD 9 blitz.


To those b*tching about communication: Ever think that they might just lose a $20,000,000 sponsorship(or more) by telling the players too soon? By the way, they wouldn't be able to mention that either, due to the same problem. Thus, they are forced to remain tight-lipped as we whine, gripe, leave, come back and whine some more, leave, then get back to playing, then leave again.

They might also have some major pending contracts(again, I know nothing, purely speculative), with some "Game Hardware Developers" that might just be tying their already noosed hands even further regarding the communication issues.

[Strakeln]

Cool. That gives me time to outfit some newer characters for the MOD 9 blitz.


To those b*tching about communication: Ever think that they might just lose a $20,000,000 sponsorship(or more) by telling the players too soon? By the way, they wouldn't be able to mention that either, due to the same problem. Thus, they are forced to remain tight-lipped as we whine, gripe, leave, come back and whine some more, leave, then get back to playing, then leave again.

They might also have some major pending contracts(again, I know nothing, purely speculative), with some "Game Hardware Developers" that might just be tying their already noosed hands even further regarding the communication issues.I'm not saying they have to tell us the details they can't share such as what you suggest above. There are lots of things they can still talk about, such as an honest assessment of their release schedule going forward (ex: "looks like mod 9 may be 3 months or more out still").

[VirieSquichie]

So I guess the statements Turbine made saying "new years 2009" or "around the anniversary" weren't real statements....

interesting.

Somebody deceived somebody, that's for sure. Whether it was between people at Turbine or between Turbine and the playerbase remains to be seen.


I'm not saying they have to tell us the details they can't share such as what you suggest above. There are lots of things they can still talk about, such as an honest assessment of their release schedule going forward (ex: "looks like mod 9 may be 3 months or more out still").

The absence of this makes me think it was the second of the possibilities I mentioned above. Sure, some forumites would cancel their subs if they were told a time frame like this, but some would retain their subs anyway and be a bit less trollish for a while because they'd actually gotten some useful communication.

Compare:

"Are we there yet?" "No." "Are we there yet?" "No." "Are we there yet?" "No." "Are we there yet?" "No." "Are we there yet?" "No. Auuugh!" ".....Are we there yet?" "No. [whimper]" [repeat until we actually are]

"Are we there yet?" "No, we still have about 45 minutes to go still." "Oh. [pause, slightly disgruntled silence] I'm hungry, got a snack?"

[Demoyn]

call me the Switzerland of DDO if ya will.

Your posts seem to indicate that you lean a little closer to the France of DDO style.

[soupertc]

Your posts seem to indicate that you lean a little closer to the France of DDO style.

No if I was France I would say everyone else was wrong and hold my nose up in the air. I would also never acknowledge the fact I was saved by a great country and it's men in the armed forces who helped liberate it with thier blood. So I beg to differ.

Nice try on being witty though.

[Demoyn]

Nothing personal, but your opinion isn't shared by the majority of the people in the thread.


There have been many many posts on how disappointed in Turbine we are. You know what happens then? They get locked.

Did you ever stop to think that these two quotes may be directly related? There's plenty of people that agree with Strakeln. Probably over half the people left (would be a lot more if we could count all the people who've already cancelled), but we've reduced our posting because of the forum moderators, and are only holding off our cancellations by a thread of hope which is hastily diminishing?

[Riorik]

Hate to inform you, but the example wasn't an analogy. It's talking about taking things laying down and considering that the only option - much like you are doing here, not about specific methodology to follow.

I notice you used the phrase "...and hope you get your deposit back". That's exactly the kind of way of thought I'm talking about.

I agree with your example. In actuality, the deposits are mostly just a way of demonstrating that you can actually cover the costs. Considering that many states mandate a multi-day cooling off period during which you're entitled to 100% back out of the purchase contract and be made whole as if it'd never happened...no penalties...no fees...how can they actually hold onto your deposit unless you let them.

I do disagree with your premise (at least I think this is your premise) that everybody has to prioritize the quality of their DDO gaming experience in the same way you do. Not everyone values the same features & attributes identically. I firmly believe that there are significant numbers of players who aren't merely accepting of the current status quo...or even compliant or tolerant...they're enjoying their expeirence.

I think there are different views/priorities for individuals and they're all correct, for those individuals. Take that as me saying you're right, Strakln, but so is that other player that say's he/she wants to stay & play. They aren't necessarily just a tool or "taking it".

[Angelus_dead]

Still thinking this has anything to do with making mod 9 come out on any other day: clueless. In case I haven't mentioned it before: this is about
Repeating yourself five times doesn't stop you from being wrong.

It's foolish to pretend that communication is a higher priority than actually finishing their projects.

[Vyr_Vandalous]

I have played many games. Age of Conan, Everquest 2, Ultima Online, Eve Online And Others.

Out of all the online games.. DDO has the most complex combat system (IMO) And the Most Customizable Character Ability.

This is why I keep coming back to DDO.

However!.............. In Comparison with other games on the features and options this game is placed LAST of them all.

No Guild housing.. This should have been introduced on Game launch.. Not us waiting and hoping for it. Guild Banks... Guild Colors, Guild Rewards for Favor... And Alot more for guilds.

So far all a guild means on this server is having a group of people to hang out with easier to get groups. There are many people on Khyber who are in 2 to as much as 8 different guilds. Why is this?

Its because being in a guild does not mean or stand for anything other than what we effort to make it. Sure we can be an elite guild.. Looters and such, But it's up to our imaginations to compensate to make the community work instead of also having to assist us other in game-guild functionalities such as guild housing and more.

A guild and support for guilds are a staple of MMO'S. On DDO release there was a contest to offer a prize to the guilds who in the first 2 days had a guild of 30+ Members... That prize was a guild Helmet.

Even back at release.. a lesser false life helmet? that was the reward?

The collectors edition gave you boots of striding 5 %.. What the heck is this about?
And the + 1 AC Necklace... Doh...

Maybe a natural (Unhindered and stackable) armor class bonus of + 1 to your characters would have been much better instead of it taking up an inventory slot.

The eternal titan wand? Gm Events?....

Ultima Online had GM sponsored events and they were awesome.. Turbine does not even come close. I Attended a Gm event and i was the first one there and i waited 2 hours for sir lawrence to finally give me my turn. Until that point (No Joke) he was giving vorpal sickles and titan wands to anyone who rolled a 99 or a 100. Right before my turn he changed the rules and said now only on a natural 100 could you win both. I rolled a 99 and I got nothing. No vorpal sickle, No titan wand.

Now it was not a big deal about the vorpal as i got 20 of them but the point is that i was there first and waited for 2 hours and seen all these players get vorps and wands and when it came to me i got screwed. This is typical of turbines events. (Its the principal of the matter)

The patches.. updates, Expansions...

Every Mod takes Months and Months to release. The game rewards for downtimes, and problems on turbines end are ridiculous at best.

I love DDO and i love what it "Could Become"... Unfortunately its now becoming a tough love and I dont know how much longer I can hold on. I have cancelled my account three times now and just recently again renewed it for Mod 9 play. Where is Mod 9?

On DDO's Anniversary date what did we get? + 10% XP... + 1 loot?.. on what? outdated items?. You see.... If the content was constantly being updated and there were more levels and prestige classes then perhaps a + 1 loot weekend or xp would be great.. But since we are all bored to tears and keep running the same content over and over again we have not only everything in the game as far as loot goes but we have like 10 of them each. So what is the reward of the + 1 loot? or the lame + 10% to xp?

On Risia they had a + 900 % xp once. Im not asking for this much but to offer us let's say... + 100% to xp? or 200%? that might make leveling a toon less painful and not be so bad. But of course turbine wont do this since it lowers their staying power for subsribtions and longevity.

Point is... If you want to keep delaying things, mods and such.. Then you need to give us players something to work with while we patiently wait for you guys to get your content released. Give us guild housing.. Push it through... I know you have it coded and made you just need to release the code. Give us features of guild housing and some new favor tables for guild customizations.. colors and such. At least then we will have something new to do and work towards that will help the gaming community and guilds.

Guilds are HUGE in MMO's and it needs the proper support structure and without that you lose players. Don't you see? understand? realise this Turbine?

I guess at the end of the day you guys (Turbine) just want to keep your cash revenue going and put as little into this game as possible for the profit.

I did however notice one very smart thing you guys did. You used the tilesets/graphics from lord of the rings in our new module 9. The walls , mordor tiles and swamps and such. This was a good cost effective idea.

My friend who played on the mourlands server and also played DDO and lord of the rings said this to me:... " All the complaints and ideas of guild housing, crafting and the spacious enviorment ideas that we mentioned to turbine plus every other good idea we had in beta testing and on the mourlands server, Turbine went and took all those ideas and implemented them in their lord of the rings game instead of putting them into here on DDO."

He is right... And It's sad... We are not a test subject for your people to learn from then implement our advice/input and hard work into another online game. We worked hard to give you input and such so it would be implemented in this game here for us.

I was a full time beta tester for DDO and played Alpha (stage 1) and i did not do this to see you just abandon us for LOTRO or some other product.

Delete this post if you want.. but at least have the moral fortitude to take this post and show this to someone in turbines staff who can do something about this that actually cares to make this a better game.

L8TrZ!~

[Missing_Minds]

So I reminded him who the boss was. It's not the service guy, it's the customer. And I told him to follow me back in, that I'd straighten this out.

Ten minutes later, he drove away in his car (I used the "I'm not going away until you fix this" approach, worked like a charm).

So... What property of yours have you lent turbine? Ah.. thought so. NONE.

[bandyman1]

So... What property of yours have you lent turbine? Ah.. thought so. NONE.

Sure he has...

3 years of his life :D.

[Strakeln]

Repeating yourself five times doesn't stop you from being wrong.Hi! Care to explain how you know what I was trying to express better than I do?

For me, this has been about communication, as I have repeatedly stated. Drwaz forgot that and instead implied that I'm trying to somehow change the mod 9 release date. I corrected him by pointing out the exact places where I have stated otherwise.


It's foolish to pretend that communication is a higher priority than actually finishing their projects.I wouldn't expect you to understand the importance of communicating with one's customers.

[Strakeln]

I do disagree with your premise (at least I think this is your premise) that everybody has to prioritize the quality of their DDO gaming experience in the same way you do. Not everyone values the same features & attributes identically. I firmly believe that there are significant numbers of players who aren't merely accepting of the current status quo...or even compliant or tolerant...they're enjoying their expeirence.I certainly don't think that everyone else should be expected to prioritize their experience like I do, and I'm cognizant of the fact that there are likely plenty of players who are perfectly happy with the way things are.

My intended audience (or rather, those who I accuse of "laying down and taking it") is the group of people who are unhappy with the way things are, who refuse even consider doing anything about it.

[Quanefel]

I have played many games. Age of Conan, Everquest 2, Ultima Online, Eve Online And Others.

Out of all the online games.. DDO has the most complex combat system (IMO) And the Most Customizable Character Ability.

This is why I keep coming back to DDO.

However!.............. In Comparison with other games on the features and options this game is placed LAST of them all.

No Guild housing.. This should have been introduced on Game launch.. Not us waiting and hoping for it. Guild Banks... Guild Colors, Guild Rewards for Favor... And Alot more for guilds.

So far all a guild means on this server is having a group of people to hang out with easier to get groups. There are many people on Khyber who are in 2 to as much as 8 different guilds. Why is this?

Its because being in a guild does not mean or stand for anything other than what we effort to make it. Sure we can be an elite guild.. Looters and such, But it's up to our imaginations to compensate to make the community work instead of also having to assist us other in game-guild functionalities such as guild housing and more.

A guild and support for guilds are a staple of MMO'S. On DDO release there was a contest to offer a prize to the guilds who in the first 2 days had a guild of 30+ Members... That prize was a guild Helmet.

Even back at release.. a lesser false life helmet? that was the reward?

The collectors edition gave you boots of striding 5 %.. What the heck is this about?
And the + 1 AC Necklace... Doh...

Maybe a natural (Unhindered and stackable) armor class bonus of + 1 to your characters would have been much better instead of it taking up an inventory slot.

The eternal titan wand? Gm Events?....

Ultima Online had GM sponsored events and they were awesome.. Turbine does not even come close. I Attended a Gm event and i was the first one there and i waited 2 hours for sir lawrence to finally give me my turn. Until that point (No Joke) he was giving vorpal sickles and titan wands to anyone who rolled a 99 or a 100. Right before my turn he changed the rules and said now only on a natural 100 could you win both. I rolled a 99 and I got nothing. No vorpal sickle, No titan wand.

Now it was not a big deal about the vorpal as i got 20 of them but the point is that i was there first and waited for 2 hours and seen all these players get vorps and wands and when it came to me i got screwed. This is typical of turbines events. (Its the principal of the matter)

The patches.. updates, Expansions...

Every Mod takes Months and Months to release. The game rewards for downtimes, and problems on turbines end are ridiculous at best.

I love DDO and i love what it "Could Become"... Unfortunately its now becoming a tough love and I dont know how much longer I can hold on. I have cancelled my account three times now and just recently again renewed it for Mod 9 play. Where is Mod 9?

On DDO's Anniversary date what did we get? + 10% XP... + 1 loot?.. on what? outdated items?. You see.... If the content was constantly being updated and there were more levels and prestige classes then perhaps a + 1 loot weekend or xp would be great.. But since we are all bored to tears and keep running the same content over and over again we have not only everything in the game as far as loot goes but we have like 10 of them each. So what is the reward of the + 1 loot? or the lame + 10% to xp?

On Risia they had a + 900 % xp once. Im not asking for this much but to offer us let's say... + 100% to xp? or 200%? that might make leveling a toon less painful and not be so bad. But of course turbine wont do this since it lowers their staying power for subsribtions and longevity.

Point is... If you want to keep delaying things, mods and such.. Then you need to give us players something to work with while we patiently wait for you guys to get your content released. Give us guild housing.. Push it through... I know you have it coded and made you just need to release the code. Give us features of guild housing and some new favor tables for guild customizations.. colors and such. At least then we will have something new to do and work towards that will help the gaming community and guilds.

Guilds are HUGE in MMO's and it needs the proper support structure and without that you lose players. Don't you see? understand? realise this Turbine?

I guess at the end of the day you guys (Turbine) just want to keep your cash revenue going and put as little into this game as possible for the profit.

I did however notice one very smart thing you guys did. You used the tilesets/graphics from lord of the rings in our new module 9. The walls , mordor tiles and swamps and such. This was a good cost effective idea.

My friend who played on the mourlands server and also played DDO and lord of the rings said this to me:... " All the complaints and ideas of guild housing, crafting and the spacious enviorment ideas that we mentioned to turbine plus every other good idea we had in beta testing and on the mourlands server, Turbine went and took all those ideas and implemented them in their lord of the rings game instead of putting them into here on DDO."

He is right... And It's sad... We are not a test subject for your people to learn from then implement our advice/input and hard work into another online game. We worked hard to give you input and such so it would be implemented in this game here for us.

I was a full time beta tester for DDO and played Alpha (stage 1) and i did not do this to see you just abandon us for LOTRO or some other product.

Delete this post if you want.. but at least have the moral fortitude to take this post and show this to someone in turbines staff who can do something about this that actually cares to make this a better game.

L8TrZ!~

The guild housing, real crafting and spacious environment comments are interesting. Those things would help boost this game up more to draw in more people but....they gave all that to LOTRO instead of us. Almost like they want DDO to fail.

[Strakeln]

So... What property of yours have you lent turbine? Ah.. thought so. NONE.


<snip> ...the example wasn't an analogy. It's talking about taking things laying down and considering that the only option <snip>, not about specific methodology to follow.Sorry you can't see the relevance of the example.

/facepalm