AC Evasion Tanks Rejoice!

[Jadeare]

Our Dragon Touched Armor options now are:

1. Wear leather and loose some AC to gain some of the new super cool, slot reducing, waited for months to see, effects.

2. Wear Breastplate and loose evasion.

3. Reroll your character. If you had this knowledge before hand you would have built differently. You can make better now.

There is no armor here for an AC Evasion Tank. We already sacrifice AC and Build Points to have evasion. Now, to wear DT Armor, we sacrifice more.

So Devs, if you had an evasion tank, what armor would you choose? Remember to consider you have been building this Evasion tank for three months and had no knowledge of what to come.

Feel free to set me straight if i am wrong here.

Be prepared to defend your statements.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Our Dragon Touched Armor options now are:

1. Wear leather and loose some AC to gain some of the new super cool, slot reducing, waited for months to see, effects.

Isn't this leather a higher base AC than normal leather, putting it pretty much on par with MBP?



Feel free to set me straight if i am wrong here.

Be prepared to defend your statements.

You forgot option 4... don't get DT armor. Not everyone saw a useful Dragon scale or Necro armor for their build either....

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

What DEX does your evasion tank have?

Garth

[Dexxaan]

Dude - Paying with some AC to have evasion is well worth it and makes sense...what's next evasion-tanks in Lt. Armor out AC'ng Heavy Armor-clad AC Tanks.... geesh. EDIT: WAIT! - That's already happening!

You have the BP of Destruction which is a HUGE advantage at a -1 to AC, yet saves a slot and so easy to get...

[Rilean]

Once again this proves that no matter what turbine does someone will complain. I feel sorry for the DEVs they work hard to try and improve our game and get no thanks.

Well here I am saying thanks (oh and I have an evasion tanks too)

Welldone turbine you have made a great game.

[Jadeare]

Isn't this leather a higher base AC than normal leather, putting it pretty much on par with MBP?



You forgot option 4... don't get DT armor. Not everyone saw a useful Dragon scale or Necro armor for their build either....

No, the leather is Higher max dex bonus.

I can not use DT armor, true.

[Jadeare]

What DEX does your evasion tank have?

Garth

26 with a +2 tome.

[Jadeare]

Dude - Paying with some AC to have evasion is well worth it and makes sense...what's next evasion-tanks in Lt. Armor out AC'ng Heavy Armor-clad AC Tanks.... geesh.

You have the BP of Destruction which is a HUGE advantage at a -1 to AC, yet saves a slot and so easy to get...

I agree, Light armor tanks should not have as high an AC as heavy armored. it is worth it to pay some AC for Evasion. How much is enough? 1? 2? 3?

I already pay 3 AC for evasion, -1 for MBP over MFP, -2 for Large Shield against Tower shield. Worked these out a while ago so my memory could be a bit off there, but i believe that is correct.

How does BP of Destruction save a slot? +4 protection doesnt save a slot. It reduces your AC by 1 against a prot item.

[Goldeneye]

I think this is the reason Turbine made the Icy Rainments so easy to obtain in the Subterrain. icy rainments might be a little less the dragontouched, but they're pretty good

[Jadeare]

Once again this proves that no matter what turbine does someone will complain. I feel sorry for the DEVs they work hard to try and improve our game and get no thanks.

Well here I am saying thanks (oh and I have an evasion tanks too)

Welldone turbine you have made a great game.

Once again someone comes in to stand on their soapbox rallying against the injustice of the fool who would dare to question and ask for explanation.

Yes the devs do a good job. Yes this is an excellent game.

I don't feel sorry for them at all Mr high up there on his soap box. I expect that many of them love what they do, working on one of the best game concepts since Tiggy. I just want to know why they did it, if it was a conscious decision or an oversight. Also if anyone can see a way around this and justify this.

[Gol]

Isn't this leather a higher base AC than normal leather, putting it pretty much on par with MBP?


Dude - Paying with some AC to have evasion is well worth it and makes sense...what's next evasion-tanks in Lt. Armor out AC'ng Heavy Armor-clad AC Tanks.... geesh.
No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.

[ThrasherGT]

26 with a +2 tome.

You lost me here. The new Leather is 8 armor/ 7 dex , right? if You take 1 level of ftr. armor mastery that equals 16 armor, which is exactly the same as a Mith. chain shirt.

Throw in the +3 dodge bonus on the new armor (unless You've got a Chattering ring, of course) and this is inferior how?

Or is this that You are feeling cheated because Full Plate got a boost?

I don't get it.......

[Jadeare]

Clearly if i have 26 Dex and am Using MBP i also have FAM3.

Does that clear things up a little mate?

It isnt about a boost to AC, it is about the three tiers of effects you can stack on an item to compact you slots.

The same AC would do nicely thanks.

Would just like an even shake of the branch.

[Jadeare]

No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.

Spot on.

[Braegan]

I was a little disappointed as well with the new armor. More than likely something my characters will never have need of. And while I don't begrudge those that are able to make use of this new stage of crafting, it would be nice to be excited about something in DDO. Oh well I guess it's KDS for life!

[manfredshw]

AC is not the only thing in this game.
And dt armor is just a kind of choice, you need it, you get it, if not, just pass it.
Do not confuse yourself, ask yourself what you need indeed.

I chose a dt outfit for my ranger, as well as my friend. We plan to put +5res, +5pro and destruction on it for combat use. If we need AC someday, we will put on our IR, no big deal.

The last thing I complained is dt leather armor looks like a piece of ****, that's ridiculously ugly. I can't express it with any words in this world. Eveytime I put on the leather armor, my friends are all laugh at me with tears in their eyes I can imagine.

[Riminy]

Our Dragon Touched Armor options now are:

1. Wear leather and loose some AC to gain some of the new super cool, slot reducing, waited for months to see, effects.

2. Wear Breastplate and loose evasion.

3. Reroll your character. If you had this knowledge before hand you would have built differently. You can make better now.

There is no armor here for an AC Evasion Tank. We already sacrifice AC and Build Points to have evasion. Now, to wear DT Armor, we sacrifice more.

So Devs, if you had an evasion tank, what armor would you choose? Remember to consider you have been building this Evasion tank for three months and had no knowledge of what to come.

Feel free to set me straight if i am wrong here.

Be prepared to defend your statements.

Your clearly unaware of the benefits of evasion. Pure pallys and fighters have been waiting for something like this to give them a reason to stay pure. It's not the greatest reason but its adequate. Your complaining that a person who didn't take the evasion option is benefiting in another way? No way, that can't be true. You get 100's of damage evaded every high level quest and they get more armor class for staying pure? How unreasonable is that argument. You took advantage of something and got a consequence?

From turbines selection of armours, I imagine they have done two things here:

#1 - You want the highest AC and evasion you will have to make two armors, one for AC and no evasion, one for evasion with less AC. Basically i think this is because there isn't much of a penalty to multiclassing and I see this as them setting a small penalty.

#2 - This is a counter balance of the icy rainment. Currently still more armor class then the DT robe or outfit, however the DT obviously has greater effects and will save item slots. To gain the highest armor class the character would have to remain with the icy rainment.

In a nutshell, they are providing pure class fighters, clerics and paladins (mainly fighters and paladins) with the possibility at a slightly higher armor class, while the evasion tanks remain sitting on the fence with two options: Make the leather to remain with evasion and a little less AC, or make a fullplate and a leather and switch between the armors for when evasion is wanted, or the higher armor class is wanted. Evasion is a big thing..

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.

Precisely.

[Nyvn]

No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.



QFT

The lore doesn't really allow the dragon touched armor to be Mithril but if they added the full range of light armors it would be a huge boon.

[Ganidel]

You Icy Raiment users need to get over your selves you cant always be all end all.

Realy if you use the Choasguards you only lose 3-4, if you use a protection +5 item or put it on you dragontouched you only lose 3 ac, add +5 resistance in your eldritch rune slot and or _______ to you Sovereign rune:

+4 Natural AC(frees up one ring slot)
+4 Insight(dont have to use shroud item for your AC)
Tharne's Wrath
Destruct
Crippling
Smite (smite on melee attacks)

So please stop whining and either lose like 3 ac, and have +2 more saves and the bonus of the sovereign rune.

[Gennerik]

No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.

No, Gol. We get to use the same Kundarak Delving Suit that we've been wearing since Module 1 (Well, since the changed the actual requirements to needing to wear light armor).

[Gol]

No, Gol. We get to use the same Kundarak Delving Suit that we've been wearing since Module 1 (Well, since the changed the actual requirements to needing to wear light armor).
My bad. ;)

KDS is still the strength-based Ranger uniform for me as well.

[Jadeare]

Your clearly unaware of the benefits of evasion.

Yes thats right mate, i made an evasion tank and i am unaware of the benefits i get from evasion. It was all an accident. "OMG i am 16 and strueth! if i make a reflex save i take no damage, how did that happen?"

Your complaining that a person who didn't take the evasion option is benefiting in another way?

People don't "take" evasion, they build around it. I'm not complaining that they have a benefit, im complaining that if i use DT armor and want to keep evasion my AC goes backwards.... get it?

You took advantage of something and got a consequence?

Yes, the penalty i currently pay is 15% lower chance to avoid being hit, people put 6 levels of ranger into their build to get tempest... that's 10%. We are talking about a big difference here.

#1 - You want the highest AC and evasion you will have to make two armors, one for AC and no evasion, one for evasion with less AC.

Or..... how about a DT Chain Shirt please, you can make it 4/6 5/5 or 6/4 idc



#2 - This is a counter balance of the icy rainment. Currently still more armor class then the DT robe or outfit, however the DT obviously has greater effects and will save item slots. To gain the highest armor class the character would have to remain with the icy rainment.

Yes, not asking for highest AC, or even second highest. Just don't want to go backwards.

In a nutshell, they are providing pure class fighters, clerics and paladins (mainly fighters and paladins) with the possibility at a slightly higher armor class, while the evasion tanks remain sitting on the fence with two options: Make the leather to remain with evasion and a little less AC, or make a fullplate and a leather and switch between the armors for when evasion is wanted, or the higher armor class is wanted. Evasion is a big thing..

You seem to have an armor wearing ac evasion intimitank confused with a monk/ranger splash. Can you see the distinction now?
[/LIST]


I believe there should be a middle ground somewhere. Evasion Shield using Armor wearing intimitanks are at least 3 AC behind. I am happy for us to remain 3 AC behind, just don't want to slip to 5 AC behind.

[Rilean]

Once again someone comes in to stand on their soapbox rallying against the injustice of the fool who would dare to question and ask for explanation.

Yes the devs do a good job. Yes this is an excellent game.

I don't feel sorry for them at all Mr high up there on his soap box. I expect that many of them love what they do, working on one of the best game concepts since Tiggy. I just want to know why they did it, if it was a conscious decision or an oversight. Also if anyone can see a way around this and justify this.

Dude seriosly step back and take a chill pill. If I insulted you I appolagise I was just doing what everyone else is and putting in my opinion. :)

As for what your toons need maybe next mod then again maybe not

[Riminy]

You seem to have an armor wearing ac evasion intimitank confused with a monk/ranger splash. Can you see the distinction now?
[/LIST]


I believe there should be a middle ground somewhere. Evasion Shield using Armor wearing intimitanks are at least 3 AC behind. I am happy for us to remain 3 AC behind, just don't want to slip to 5 AC behind.

Ok wait you dont understand, ill make it blindingly obvious: DT armour is not compulsory. That means no one is making you wear the leather to decrease you armour class.. This is just a mere case of you not getting exactly what suits you. You have no concern for game balance and think that you must wear the DT armour.

So you would end up 5 AC behind with evasion? That seems reasonable to me.. 100's of damage being evaded for 5 AC. Seems pretty fair..

Next people wearing icy rainment should start complaining because if they change from the icy rainment, they lose armor class too. They should right? Heck why not just throw game balance down the drain and we can all play clerics, sorcs and multiclass rangers. (Not saying clerics are overpowered, just pretty essential).

[Clay]

try being a WF.

Try getting a half decent docent from a raid, or mod or quest reward list...

[Jadeare]

Ok wait you dont understand, ill make it blindingly obvious: DT armour is not compulsory.

True, nor are green steel items. Everyone got something there though didn't they.... Tell you what, ill give up on trying to get some DT armor that suits a mid dex build, you destroy all your GS items.

That means no one is making you wear the leather to decrease you armour class.. This is just a mere case of you not getting exactly what suits you. You have no concern for game balance and think that you must wear the DT armour.

Yeah, im really messing up game balance by not wanting to go backwards while taking advantage of new content that most other builds can utilise. Don't worry though, when you give up your GS items we will both be a little gimped. We could form a club

So you would end up 5 AC behind with evasion? That seems reasonable to me.. 100's of damage being evaded for 5 AC. Seems pretty fair..

5 AC is 25%. Now that isnt 25% behind top, that is 25% behind armored tanks. Many who play a tank grind the hell out of titan for chattering ring, that is 15%..... It's a big deal.

Next people wearing icy rainment should start complaining because if they change from the icy rainment, they lose armor class too. They should right? Heck why not just throw game balance down the drain and we can all play clerics, sorcs and multiclass rangers. (Not saying clerics are overpowered, just pretty essential).

Icy Rainments are still the top AC in the game. I think they are probably still quite happy. If MBP wearing tanks had top AC in the game, they wouldnt be writing on the forums asking "what's the go?" We would be nodding our heads at the sagelyness of not improving the best



Do you see any problem with putting in a DT Chain Shirt with 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4? Is that in any way overpowered?

Don't compare evasion tanks asking for something to wear to an icy rainment wearer wanting something improved. It is just ridiculous.

[Jadeare]

try being a WF.

Try getting a half decent docent from a raid, or mod or quest reward list...

Yep, Valid.

[Aesop]

Well... they added more Weapons to the Shroud ... maybe they'll add Chain Shirt to the list of DT eventually...

Or maybe there will be an Eldrtitch Rune that increases the Dex and reduces the Type to a minimum of light for the Breastplate .

All things are possible.


Though you guys got a couple of "decent ones" last Mod with the BP of Destruction and the Crippling Chain... not customizable but they aren't too bad

I don't currently have a Evasion Tank ... but then again if I was to complain it would be that there are no DT Shields... who knows maybe they'll add DT Shields and Chain Shirt next Mod


Aesop

[Vivanto]

I think this is the reason Turbine made the Icy Rainments so easy to obtain in the Subterrain. icy rainments might be a little less the dragontouched, but they're pretty good

No, Icy Raiments are still the best cloth out there a Dex-toon can have AC-wise.

[Jadeare]

Well... they added more Weapons to the Shroud ... maybe they'll add Chain Shirt to the list of DT eventually...

Or maybe there will be an Eldrtitch Rune that increases the Dex and reduces the Type to a minimum of light for the Breastplate .

All things are possible.


Though you guys got a couple of "decent ones" last Mod with the BP of Destruction and the Crippling Chain... not customizable but they aren't too bad

I don't currently have a Evasion Tank ... but then again if I was to complain it would be that there are no DT Shields... who knows maybe they'll add DT Shields and Chain Shirt next Mod


Aesop

Yeah, guess ill just hold onto my runes.

Here is hoping. Do you think a DT Chain Shirt would be in any way over powered Aesop?

[ThrasherGT]

No, Icy Raiments are still the best cloth out there a Dex-toon can have AC-wise.

People Keep saying this, but You're assuming that EVERYONE That Has the Rainments has a Chattering ring?

Without the ring, The DT Robe/ Outfit and the +3 Dodge rune is +1 Armor over the Rainments!

9>8. simple math.

[Vivanto]

People Keep saying this, but You're assuming that EVERYONE That Has the Rainments has a Chattering ring?

Without the ring, The DT Robe/ Outfit and the +3 Dodge rune is +1 Armor over the Rainments!

9>8. simple math.

Apart from the dodge everything else can be aquired easy.

4>3, simple math.

[Gol]

People Keep saying this, but You're assuming that EVERYONE That Has the Rainments has a Chattering ring?

Without the ring, The DT Robe/ Outfit and the +3 Dodge rune is +1 Armor over the Rainments!

9>8. simple math.
Chattering doesn't matter.

Raiment 4 Dodge + Armor Bracers 8 = 12
DT Robe/Outfit 6 Armor + 3 Dodge + 2 Chaosgarde = 11

If you care about AC, you'll have at least 7 Armor bracers, and likely 8. And it doesn't even require LG alignment. It also stacks with Chattering if you ever do get lucky enough to pull one.

[brshelton]

But who cares cuz were still better in the new content than other builds...

[Gol]

But who cares cuz were still better in the new content than other builds...
Yeah, we just have no reason to run it because all the stuff you need for the armor binds. At least we could run shroud for ingreds to sell them.

[Paladin20]

*removed*

[Dexxaan]

No, you both missed the point. People with really high dex get the best of both worlds. People with really low dex get the heavy armor. People with in-between dex (24-26 land) get the shaft.


I agree, but the exception of every rule...or generalized statement:

Bruttus -my main has a 22 DEX and has undispellable-unbuffed-unboosted 69 AC. (of course he's a Dwarf with Leviks Combo Black DragonPlate for now Pal 12 Fighter 4)

I agree that Evasion Tanks that want to have the AC need to Carry a set of XYZ Full Plate in their packs for certain areas, Quests, etc....(My other 2 Evasion Tanks do exactly that for some instances)

[Aesop]

Yeah, guess ill just hold onto my runes.

Here is hoping. Do you think a DT Chain Shirt would be in any way over powered Aesop?

Not as far as I can tell. It would have a lower Dex max but +2 Armor Bonus thus making it about equal in effect.

Aesop

[Gol]

Not as far as I can tell. It would have a lower Dex max but +2 Armor Bonus thus making it about equal in effect.
Now if only all those Str-based Dwarf Rangers or Splashed Evasion Fighters could reach 32 Dex, you might have a point.

[Aesop]

Now if only all those Str-based Dwarf Rangers or Splashed Evasion Fighters could reach 32 Dex, you might have a point.

um... huh?

A Chain Shirt has a +4 Dex mod Dwarven Armor Mastery maxes at +3 and FAM Maxes at +3 that's a 30 Dex Maximum... a Mithril BP has a 5 Dex max ... that's the one that would need a 32 Dex...

I think you may have mis read my post. I said that it is possible that they will either add Chain Shirt as an optional Armor set or have a Rune that makes improves the Dex Max and lowers the Armor Type... I didn't disparage anyones wish that they could have a more appropriate armor for their fighting style nor did I say they were wrong for doing so... I said that Turbine has been knbown to add more to a crafting table after the fact, so don't get too bent out of shape

Aesop

[Jadeare]

Yep, you might have misread that one Gol.

Aesop is just saying he doesn't think a DT Chain shirt would be over powered.

Can anyone truly argue with any credibility that this armor should not be included?

[Gennerik]

Just as a semi-explanation to those saying that evasion tanks just have to choose. For those of us that care about AC, we've pretty much been stuck with the same armor since Module 1. The Kundarak Delving Suit is the pinnacle of AC for armored evasion characters. It's been the best armor for almost two years now, and every time a new module is released with new armor, we all hope that we can finally trade it out for something without dropping our AC. This module we finally had the chance, but the only light armor released was Leather Armor, which means that once again we have no other AC option without dropping our AC (which is already under everyone else, including other classes that still have evasion and DPS *cough* Tempest Ranger/Monk *cough*). If they did release the Chain Shirt, then it would finally allow people that have the Kundarak Delving Suit to pick something else without suffering a drop in AC.

And also, a drop of 3 AC means that for most armored evasion builds, they actually get hit a lot more, because our AC doesn't tend to be the highest of the high (i.e., overkill), so we end up taking more damage. So it's not dropping AC to evade hundreds of points of damage, it's taking hundreds of points of damage to evade hundreds. And given that with protections/resists, you'll end up taking more melee damage than spell damage over a lifetime, so you'll really be losing out.

[BlackSteel]

try being a WF.

Try getting a half decent docent from a raid, or mod or quest reward list...

dont know about you, but my ac focused wf cleric is making out like a bandit with the DT items, considering he didnt have a chattering ring, and would have a hard time fitting it in anyway. He'll be netting 7 extra AC out of the new docents.

[Jadeare]

Just as a semi-explanation to those saying that evasion tanks just have to choose. For those of us that care about AC, we've pretty much been stuck with the same armor since Module 1. The Kundarak Delving Suit is the pinnacle of AC for armored evasion characters. It's been the best armor for almost two years now, and every time a new module is released with new armor, we all hope that we can finally trade it out for something without dropping our AC. This module we finally had the chance, but the only light armor released was Leather Armor, which means that once again we have no other AC option without dropping our AC (which is already under everyone else, including other classes that still have evasion and DPS *cough* Tempest Ranger/Monk *cough*). If they did release the Chain Shirt, then it would finally allow people that have the Kundarak Delving Suit to pick something else without suffering a drop in AC.

And also, a drop of 3 AC means that for most armored evasion builds, they actually get hit a lot more, because our AC doesn't tend to be the highest of the high (i.e., overkill), so we end up taking more damage. So it's not dropping AC to evade hundreds of points of damage, it's taking hundreds of points of damage to evade hundreds. And given that with protections/resists, you'll end up taking more melee damage than spell damage over a lifetime, so you'll really be losing out.

Bloody Oath

[Aranticus]

OP, if you build a toon around a feat, then i'm sure you are already aware of the pros and cons. if you do not have super dex, you would have used a mfp, mid dex then a mbp, robes if super dex. no one build is compulsory, neither is a feat or an equipment. you choose a particular dex, you choose a build, you choose the feats, no one forced you. when you make a build, by now, you would have realised how changes are inevitable but you choose to ignore certain potential risks. take PRCs as example. we know the are going to have PRCs enhancements for fighters, pallys coming up. it is very likely that the last tier will be at L18. are you going to complain coz you built your evasion toon as 12/2/2?

no matter what turbine comes up with, there is bound to be something that will not satisfy someone. i dun really understand why people these days feels that their needs (a want in your case) first....

[Amabel]

Aranticus

I don't think he's complaining about his build choice. He's complaining that they have introduced new end game "capstone" loot that is good for everyone except mid-DEX tanks (mostly evasion tanks).

It's also not much chop for clerics I suppose - blue dragonscale is probably better, but at least it's not much chop because there is something BETTER, not because they're stuck with the same old mod 1 armour.

I assume Turbine will expand the DT armour with new mods, but who knows?

[Riminy]

Do you see any problem with putting in a DT Chain Shirt with 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4? Is that in any way overpowered?

A chain shirt may not be so bad, but turbine has to be careful what they implement. Somethings benefit classes too much and they have to work around it which is what they have been doing since the game started. Evasion is a very powerful feat, It's value is similar to 5-10 AC I would say because it mitigates so much damage. I'm 50/50 on the idea. I think an evasion tank should eventually need two armors. One with less AC for evasion and one with best AC and no evasion.

[Jadeare]

OP, if you build a toon around a feat, then i'm sure you are already aware of the pros and cons. if you do not have super dex, you would have used a mfp, mid dex then a mbp, robes if super dex. no one build is compulsory, neither is a feat or an equipment. you choose a particular dex, you choose a build, you choose the feats, no one forced you. when you make a build, by now, you would have realised how changes are inevitable but you choose to ignore certain potential risks. take PRCs as example. we know the are going to have PRCs enhancements for fighters, pallys coming up. it is very likely that the last tier will be at L18. are you going to complain coz you built your evasion toon as 12/2/2?

no matter what turbine comes up with, there is bound to be something that will not satisfy someone. i dun really understand why people these days feels that their needs (a want in your case) first....

Aranticus,

We are not talking about a raid chest with no named loot that suits a particular build. We are talking about a crafting system with no base for a build style to work with. I said it before.

If you think it is ok for DT armor to exclude certain build types then i expect you to cough up all of your GS items. They introduced green steel items that could occupy every slot, they even eventually brought out every weapon. That is all i want, give us DT Chain Shirts soon, not today, or even tomorrow. Soon. They arn't over powered, anyone saying that just doesn't get it.

You see, you don't have to use GS, there is a GS item that would help every build. But hey, if its ok for us Evasion tanks not to use the new crafted armor because it is useless to us then you can martyr yourself to show how it is ok to give up capstone crafting items.

I expect with all of your capped characters and how well equipped they are you will be destroying lots of GS items in the next few days. Don't worry thought mate, i feel your pain. We are going through this together. You can join our club.

[Jadeare]

A chain shirt may not be so bad

Good man

but turbine has to be careful what they implement.

Very True

Evasion is a very powerful feat

true


, It's value is similar to 5-10AC

That just doesn't make any sense. 50% hit chance increase is a good trade off for Evasion? Evasion is extremely situational. Every point of AC counts. You may see a figure of 60 and go great, that is heaps of AC and if you loose 10 you are only loosing 16.6% of your ac. Not True, If the mob is in your Hit range (and in any content that matters they are) Then each point is 5%. 10AC can mean that you are no longer an AC tank, You are a Moderate HP Low DPS guy with a shield who is apologizing to the cleric because he can't work out how come everything is hitting him when his AC is absolutely maxed.

I think an evasion tank should eventually need two armors.

Switching armor can't be compared to switching anything else in the game. It isn't quick, it isn't light. We get encumbered and we aren't evading anyway. Again, we don't want to evade in Full plate, we just want our chain shirt with less AC, with a higher cost for us to fill out (Light DT armor is +2 dex bonus so CS is prob 4/6, most builds cant fill that out yet with FAM3 but it is reachable).

It seems we are close to a meeting of minds here. I can fully respect what you are saying, it is just a matter of degree.

You think that it is fine for an armored evasion character to pay 5-10 ac for the feat

I say it is fine to pay 1-3 AC, Some build points, A lower BAB and lower HP.

These builds have paid for the feat, they are currently paying with lower AC. We just don't want the AC to go any lower.

[Gennerik]

A chain shirt may not be so bad, but turbine has to be careful what they implement. Somethings benefit classes too much and they have to work around it which is what they have been doing since the game started. Evasion is a very powerful feat, It's value is similar to 5-10 AC I would say because it mitigates so much damage. I'm 50/50 on the idea. I think an evasion tank should eventually need two armors. One with less AC for evasion and one with best AC and no evasion.

It's called Full Plate. Full Plate still has a much better AC potential than the other armor types. And by using it, you don't get to use evasion. We've already to sacrifice our top-end AC to be able to use evasion. So now we would have to sacrifice another 3 AC just to be able to use the new armors coming out? That doesn't make sense.

And Riminy, the problem with your estimates of how much evasion is worth should actually be based on the role of the character. If you have a ranger that stays out of combat, then having a drastically lower AC makes sense because more than likely, what would deal damage to them is ranged and spells, so evasion may make a big difference. For melee tanks (like the ones that tend to use armor), getting hit for 30-40 damage every few seconds by melee attacks far outweighs any benefits from evasion in most cases, so a sacrifice of more than 5 AC would be a horrible trade-off.

[Aranticus]

Aranticus

I don't think he's complaining about his build choice. He's complaining that they have introduced new end game "capstone" loot that is good for everyone except mid-DEX tanks (mostly evasion tanks).

It's also not much chop for clerics I suppose - blue dragonscale is probably better, but at least it's not much chop because there is something BETTER, not because they're stuck with the same old mod 1 armour.

I assume Turbine will expand the DT armour with new mods, but who knows?

alistair, what i'm saying is no matter what kind of builds, there are trade ins and trade outs. sometimes you get favorable mods, other times you suck thumb, this is how it goes


Aranticus,

We are not talking about a raid chest with no named loot that suits a particular build. We are talking about a crafting system with no base for a build style to work with. I said it before.

If you think it is ok for DT armor to exclude certain build types then i expect you to cough up all of your GS items. They introduced green steel items that could occupy every slot, they even eventually brought out every weapon. That is all i want, give us DT Chain Shirts soon, not today, or even tomorrow. Soon. They arn't over powered, anyone saying that just doesn't get it.

You see, you don't have to use GS, there is a GS item that would help every build. But hey, if its ok for us Evasion tanks not to use the new crafted armor because it is useless to us then you can martyr yourself to show how it is ok to give up capstone crafting items.

I expect with all of your capped characters and how well equipped they are you will be destroying lots of GS items in the next few days. Don't worry thought mate, i feel your pain. We are going through this together. You can join our club.

let me put my post in another way. you dun have to always use whatever is just introduced and if you dun get it, just suck up and stick with it. wait for turbine to introduce something or provide feedback


Our Dragon Touched Armor options now are:

1. Wear leather and loose some AC to gain some of the new super cool, slot reducing, waited for months to see, effects.

2. Wear Breastplate and loose evasion.

3. Reroll your character. If you had this knowledge before hand you would have built differently. You can make better now.

There is no armor here for an AC Evasion Tank. We already sacrifice AC and Build Points to have evasion. Now, to wear DT Armor, we sacrifice more.

So Devs, if you had an evasion tank, what armor would you choose? Remember to consider you have been building this Evasion tank for three months and had no knowledge of what to come.

Feel free to set me straight if i am wrong here.

Be prepared to defend your statements.

in your OP, there isnt any feedback as much as i can see. it comes across as a kid asking his daddy to buy this and that just because his classmate's dad bought stuff. if your post were to say, "how about adding some chain shirts to give the evasion tanks some love?". the responses on this thread would have been so much better

now if you want to talk about GS items, its the same issue. when the 1st items came out, there were no G-axe, rapiers etc. did i scream for one? no, i sucked up and made a greatsword

i'm surprised at how you brought your issue of GS up coz they are clearly both different issues. i'm sorry but you are the one who dun get it. would i agree with a DT chainshirt? yes, i fully agree with the idea, but if you re-read my post, its not about whether i agree or not. its about your mentality...

[Jadeare]

provide feedback

Doing that, Granted im annoyed and that comes accross in my writing. Plenty of feed back in my writing, analysis, critical thinking. The only thing im missing to make me the ultimate forum poster ever is the use of the word "dun". Ill work on that.

"how about adding some chain shirts to give the evasion tanks some love?"

Yes, where would we all be without you to police our posts and tell us exactly how we could have phrased it better. I wonder... have i been reported for my distinct lack of respect for my fellow posters.....

now if you want to talk about GS items, its the same issue. when the 1st items came out, there were no G-axe, rapiers etc. did i scream for one? no, i sucked up and made a greatsword

How do you know that it wasnt the forum community in an uproar that induced the devs to introduce those uber of uber weapons? Now, i don't think calling the devs names will work.... I do think clearly stating the options of a segment of the community and asking for the devs to put themselves in a hypothetical situation to try and feel the same way we do is quite mature. Thankyou very much.


i'm surprised at how you brought your issue of GS up coz they are clearly both different issues.

How exactly?

i'm sorry but you are the one who dun get it. would i agree with a DT chainshirt? yes, i fully agree with the idea,

So why did you post here officer aranticus? Shed your sagely wisdom upon me

but if you re-read my post, its not about whether i agree or not. its about your mentality...

Yes yes, i am abrasive and confrontational. I gotta say though that i am more than happy with the responses here. We have created lively debate, one person has even been slightly convinced. Yep, what a failure of a thread this is.



If you agree about the chainshirt, and you agree with the fact that it should be put in... i dont know, soon? like was posted before.... perhaps you have no reason to be in this debate.....

unless it is to police....

Kinda like the hall monitor.

Were you the hall monitor at school? Just checking because it would explain alot.

[Dexxaan]

Man.....still arguing over the non-existence of an armor type?

OP you make it sound like the DT armors are a goverment program and you have a right to get what you want........ (Sorry can´t support that)

I have 2 words for you: Icy Rainments (if your a High DEX Build of course); If you are not then get +5 MFP (if non Dwarven) throw an Eldritch upgrade, and enjoy Higher AC when you need it, Switch to KDS or DT Leather when you want Evasion.

OR; keep making a whining stink about the matter until Turbine decides to make a Mithril DT BP or CS for you..... of course then all Armors would be Mithral....right?

Hmmmmm maybe Sovereign Upgrade could be Mithral Quality?

[suitepotato]

You want whining? Imagine Turbine implementing an armor that gives all the benefits of +5 mithril fp, but has NO dex cap and lets evasion work. Imagine it being called Skin of Steel, and being a head to toe suit of magical mithral that selectively hardens like plate on impact but flows with the user. Imagine the screaming about it. Now imagine it falling 1/20th of the time on average in some easy guaranteed ten minute loot run.

Oh the gnashing of teeth and wailing then!

[Milolyen]

To those *****ing about the loss on ONE ac ... What belt are you wearing? What enhancements do you have in the way of increasing max dex?

As for me personally ... even if I had enhancements to max dex out with DT and KDS I think I would still go with DT for the ability to condense some items and improve the over all ability of my char.

Milolyen

[spyderwolf]

Aranticus,

We are not talking about a raid chest with no named loot that suits a particular build. We are talking about a crafting system with no base for a build style to work with. I said it before.

If you think it is ok for DT armor to exclude certain build types then i expect you to cough up all of your GS items. They introduced green steel items that could occupy every slot, they even eventually brought out every weapon. That is all i want, give us DT Chain Shirts soon, not today, or even tomorrow. Soon. They arn't over powered, anyone saying that just doesn't get it.

You see, you don't have to use GS, there is a GS item that would help every build. But hey, if its ok for us Evasion tanks not to use the new crafted armor because it is useless to us then you can martyr yourself to show how it is ok to give up capstone crafting items.

I expect with all of your capped characters and how well equipped they are you will be destroying lots of GS items in the next few days. Don't worry thought mate, i feel your pain. We are going through this together. You can join our club.


the only problem with them putting in the chainshirt would be if they did so the medium armor they put in would be useless since breastplate and chainshirt are very similiar. and since they started the precedent in mod 4 with the dragonscale armors with leather armor being the light armor they put out you cant really say you didnt see this coming and you cant really be upset. everytoon you make you need to adapt to the changing situations. and dont throw out that garbage about destroying your GS item cause that makes ya look like a kid who cant have candy so he doesnt want his friends to have candy either :)

[Jadeare]

Man.....still arguing over the non-existence of an armor type?

Yep, that is why im here.


Hmmmmm maybe Sovereign Upgrade could be Mithral Quality?

I could even get behind that. You do realise that this would make the armor much much more powerful right?



Responses in red

[Jadeare]

As for me personally ... even if I had enhancements to max dex out with DT and KDS I think I would still go with DT for the ability to condense some items and improve the over all ability of my char.

It is a very nice thing you can do with the DT armor. Personally, i dont feel like my evasion tank can afford to loose any AC and still be viable. Especially not with this new content. Mobs AB has gone up again. Can't afford to go backwards with AC

Milolyen

Responses in red

[Milolyen]

Responses in red

Sorry don't see how losing one ac will suddenly make your build less viable. As we go up in lvl things are going to have a better attack just like we do. If you don't feel you can afford to lose that one ac then don't. They are not going to create new gear for every build every mod ... I mean how many named bows do we have out there hehe.

Milolyen

[Mindspat]

Our Dragon Touched Armor options now are:

1. Wear leather and loose some AC to gain some of the new super cool, slot reducing, waited for months to see, effects.

2. Wear Breastplate and loose evasion.

3. Reroll your character. If you had this knowledge before hand you would have built differently. You can make better now.

There is no armor here for an AC Evasion Tank. We already sacrifice AC and Build Points to have evasion. Now, to wear DT Armor, we sacrifice more.

So Devs, if you had an evasion tank, what armor would you choose? Remember to consider you have been building this Evasion tank for three months and had no knowledge of what to come.
Feel free to set me straight if i am wrong here.

Be prepared to defend your statements.

In your regards you built a Flavor of Three Months! :D

If items don't work around your build then find a new way to play your character. This whole attitude of entitlement is getting quite old.

I'll likely not be getting Dragon Touched armor either, but that is a choice and not an option. Regardless of this I'm sure I'll still be playing with the new content with people that enjoy the game and don't spend their time whining about the newest build that can't utilize every new item. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[Jadeare]

Mindsplat: What armor are you wearing instead of trying to get DT armor?

It seems that i have managed to turn popular opinion against me with my whining. Fair enough, I didn't intend for it to be whining, but hey call a spade a spade.

I believe there is no reason for there not to be DT Chain Shirts.

AC Characters are especially looking forward to new armor options and are very slot heavy atm I.E. Chat ring, Chaos Guard, Prot item.

If anyone can put forward a reason why there shouldn't be a DT chain shirt, im ready to hear it.

I can wait for a DT Chain Shirt, Just like to know that it is coming.