hound changes dumb

[United]

I understand the reaver cause it was way to easy but the hound wasnt that easy now we had beholders out before we even got 3 charm stones please change the hound back this is just dumb now

[esoitl]

Why exactly is it 'dumb'?

If you ever want a change to take place, having a good reasoning and actually stating it is always a good start. Simply saying "this is dumb because we had a beholder" doesn't really illustrate any point other than you are a very whiny player and need the easy button.

[KoboldKiller]

Why exactly is it 'dumb'?

If you ever want a change to take place, having a good reasoning and actually stating it is always a good start. Simply saying "this is dumb because we had a beholder" doesn't really illustrate any point other than you are a very whiny player and need the easy button.


LOL.

/signed.

[Aspenor]

we Will Not Revisit Old Quests.

™

:d

[Impaqt]

™

:d


a Quote Similar to that was said in reference to Changing the Flagging mechanic for Velah and DQ.

TUrbine makes adjustments to quests all the time. Changing Spawns and CR's doesnt take much time at all. COmpletely revamping the way a quest is flagged is major work.

A List of quests that have been altered in XP, Spawn Rate and CR since their inception would be quite the hefty list for sure.

[Durack]

In my own opinion all raids should be scaled according to difficulty selection. Meaning a normal hound should be able to be completed by most level appropiate P.U.G.S.Not necessairly the most uber geared characters of super special builds.

Hard-Should probally be more difficult and require some special gearing or builds to accomplish the task.

Elite-Should be the A-Team where only the best & baddest can get the job done. However the limits should still be obtainable by a class build. Meaning don't make the Intimidate DC so high that it's almost a waste to have the intim fail in there like it does now.

I am also aware that the difficulty was scaled previous to MOD 8 but to almost revamp the spawn rate, drop rate of gem stones, beholder spawn, along with increased DC's of Xxyyzz's ability to be effectively intim'd should have been more balanced in my opinion.

What I mean by what I said above is if a person has designed a character with a specific raid in mind and they build a character, and grind them to 16 knowing all along that it was designed to be able to perform a certain task they should be able to continue to complete this task. I.E> a way of the acrobat build rogue or a high intimidate a/c meele build. I think the recent increase to the dc check on the hound may have been a little unecessary for normal difficulty.

I saying scale it to norm,hard,elite if the uber elite wanna run it on norm great. But remember the more casual players wont have the rare and best gear .

I'm not saying that strageties can't be adjusted and I am well aware that there are methods to beat the raid without intim. But I mean if someone designed a character with a mid 50's Intim to specifically be able to intim the hound and not fail even on a 1 then a recent change to the raid jus made that persons build that much less effective.
If you want to make the checks exponentially harder on hard & elite so be it but Norm difficulty should have at least a base success rate that most pick up groups (players that don't player together all the time)be able to complete this raid with fairly moderate success baring that the players have a basic understanding of the raid.

[SteeleTrueheart]

We will not revisit old and difficult to do quests.*

Fixed that for you.















* We will however adjust easy quests to reflect what was Originally Intended™ because we here at Turbine always implement a quest how it is not intended to be firstly and then correct it later to accurately reflect our intentions, while not revisiting unintentional hard quests as that may unintentionally make the game to easy which is not our intent.

[Impaqt]

Fixed that for you.


















* We will however adjust easy quests to reflect what was Originally Intended™ because we here at Turbine always implement a quest how it is not intended to be firstly and then correct it later to accurately reflect our intentions, while not revisiting unintentional hard quests as that may unintentionally make the game to easy which is not our intent.

THere have been plenty of quests that were Scaled down as well.... Like Proof is in the poison and the Abbot for example (Not that the abbot is anywhere near where it should be yet)

People always tend to forget about things like that whenthey complain.

[SteeleTrueheart]

THere have been plenty of quests that were Scaled down as well.... Like Proof is in the poison and the Abbot for example (Not that the abbot is anywhere near where it should be yet)

People always tend to forget about things like that whenthey complain.

You mean 1. Proof is in the poison. Because even the Devs had to admit it was stupidly overly difficult for a level 4 quest.

Abbot is still ridiculously hard which I admit, is scaled down compared to almost impossible. But that is like saying being shot with 45 bullets is scaled down compared to 50... Either way sucks for you.

But then Reaver, Hound, DQ, Dragon, Tempest spine have all had their difficulty increased.

I tend to agree with the changes that they have made in most situations, but I hate when they use "we don't revisit old content" as an excuse to not fix things.

[bobbryan2]

™

:d

You know what I love? Sure, they'll adjust difficulty... whatever. But in this mod they actually messed with quest chains and flagging issues, when they said they wouldn't do that.

Take a character that has done a couple of the Korthos island quests, and take 'em onto Korthos. It was interesting trying to play catchup after the mod came out. Knowing I had done my version of old road, but not the new one, etc. Not being able to do the Jacoby quest until I had finished the previous House D quest.

All in all.. I was under the impression that this was exactly why they didn't want to revisit flagging on DQ and dragon.

[Impaqt]

I tend to agree with the changes that they have made in most situations, but I hate when they use "we don't revisit old content" as an excuse to not fix things.
You need to find that quote and Quote it in CONTEXT if your going to throw it around like this.

THat was in reference to changing the flagging mechanic for old raids. It had NOTHING to do withthe content of the raid or adventure at all....

You want more quess that have been made easier?

Titan (Was near immpossible to beat when it was introduced)
EE3 (And ANY quest that requires you to keep someone alive)
Reaver elemental spawn was REDUCED.. No one complained when that happened did they?
Trap DC were lowered accross the board after they Raised em a couple mods ago.
Cabal Trap has been adjusted down several times

I'll come up with more if ya need em.

fact is, they NEVER made that comment in reference to the difficulty of any given quest or function within a quest. THey comment was directly related to doing a major code revamp to change the flagging mechanic for a couple Old school raids.

[Qzipoun]

THere have been plenty of quests that were Scaled down as well.... Like Proof is in the poison and the Abbot for example (Not that the abbot is anywhere near where it should be yet)

People always tend to forget about things like that whenthey complain.

I HOPE people forget about good things when they complain. Why would we complain about a good thing? There's a whole list of good changes that came to Mod 8, you want a thread about all of them with people just saying "good change?" :/

It's when really stupid moves happen that people complain. It's when the devs don't sit and think for a second that they do stuff this stupid, if they only did stupid stuff people wouldn't play the game.

The two examples you mentioned are why people keep on complaining. The devs released the two quests you mentioned and had them at levels too hard for completion with the expected characters, people complained, they were scaled down (abbot being scaled up and down several times and still not right :()

[bobbryan2]

fact is, they NEVER made that comment in reference to the difficulty of any given quest or function within a quest. THey comment was directly related to doing a major code revamp to change the flagging mechanic for a couple Old school raids.

Enter my point about them changing the flagging order for Harbor quests...

[Impaqt]

You know what I love? Sure, they'll adjust difficulty... whatever. But in this mod they actually messed with quest chains and flagging issues, when they said they wouldn't do that.

Take a character that has done a couple of the Korthos island quests, and take 'em onto Korthos. It was interesting trying to play catchup after the mod came out. Knowing I had done my version of old road, but not the new one, etc. Not being able to do the Jacoby quest until I had finished the previous House D quest.

All in all.. I was under the impression that this was exactly why they didn't want to revisit flagging on DQ and dragon.

Kothos Island is for all practical purposes, a new area. Just because the quests are based off of old content doesnt mean they are exactly the same. If you havent noticed, Graphics get reused ALL the time.

[bobbryan2]

Kothos Island is for all practical purposes, a new area. Just because the quests are based off of old content doesnt mean they are exactly the same. If you havent noticed, Graphics get reused ALL the time.

No.. they're the same quest. They share favor, and they share progression with the old quests.

For instance, I had one of the quests completed, but didn't pick up my end reward. After mod 8, I had to go to Korthos to find my end reward.

You can say they're new quests, but they're not according to the system. But they did alter the flagging, and the order of the chain quests, which is EXACTLY what they said they wouldn't do.

[LawstCawz]

No.. they're the same quest. They share favor, and they share progression with the old quests.

For instance, I had one of the quests completed, but didn't pick up my end reward. After mod 8, I had to go to Korthos to find my end reward.

You can say they're new quests, but they're not according to the system. But they did alter the flagging, and the order of the chain quests, which is EXACTLY what they said they wouldn't do.

Wait, there's an old raid tied to korthos island? :rolleyes:

[bobbryan2]

Wait, there's an old raid tied to korthos island? :rolleyes:

Right... because I said there was a raid... Try to have your sarcastic comments slightly more accurate in the future.

Just because Co6 and Threnal have flagging components doesn't mean they're raids either.

Flagging != Raid

[LawstCawz]

Right... because I said there was a raid... Try to have your sarcastic comments slightly more accurate in the future.

Just because Co6 and Threnal have flagging components doesn't mean they're raids either.

Flagging != Raid

I think you quoted the solution to your problem already.


You need to find that quote and Quote it in CONTEXT if your going to throw it around like this.

THat was in reference to changing the flagging mechanic for old raids. It had NOTHING to do withthe content of the raid or adventure at all....

~snip~

fact is, they NEVER made that comment in reference to the difficulty of any given quest or function within a quest. THey comment was directly related to doing a major code revamp to change the flagging mechanic for a couple Old school raids.

[Impaqt]

Right... because I said there was a raid... Try to have your sarcastic comments slightly more accurate in the future.

Just because Co6 and Threnal have flagging components doesn't mean they're raids either.

Flagging != Raid
THe only thing Irecall in the old harbor that could remotely resemble a "Chain Quest" was Old Sullys Grog and then Jacoby Drexelhand.

THey "New Versions" may be similar to the old ones.. THey may Share Favor with the old quests.... But they are NOT the same.

Thanks for bringing up THeranal though... Because the devs did fix/adjust the flagging there from wha I hear. I dont see anyone complaining about "Not revising" tat quest chain.

[bobbryan2]

THe only thing Irecall in the old harbor that could remotely resemble a "Chain Quest" was Old Sullys Grog and then Jacoby Drexelhand.

THey "New Versions" may be similar to the old ones.. THey may Share Favor with the old quests.... But they are NOT the same.

Thanks for bringing up THeranal though... Because the devs did fix/adjust the flagging there from wha I hear. I dont see anyone complaining about "Not revising" tat quest chain.

Umm... what is not the same? They changed the quest giver to a new person and altered the scenery a bit. They're exactly the same quests. They share your favor, they share your progression as what you had before. It's not like they even had to physically 'move' the quest... just change where the portal used to be.

Believe me, if they were at ALL new quests... I guarantee the devs would have said... Mod 8, TEN NEW QUESTS!!! Which didn't happen.

And as far as flagging goes... yes, there is a flagging system now. You have to do The Ancient Daggers, the House D harbor quest, and I think the Ancient Scrolls in order to do what used to be Jacoby's old quest, now called Collaboration.

But since you think they changed Threnal... then yes... that would also be an example of them going back and changing flagging mechanics. No one complains about Threnal because it's bad that they change flagging mechanics... Read very carefully, people complain because they DIDN'T change DQ or VoN.

Why would people complain about something they wanted to happen? You need your coffee this morning, man.

[Impaqt]

Umm... what is not the same? They changed the quest giver to a new person and altered the scenery a bit. They're exactly the same quests. They share your favor, they share your progression as what you had before. It's not like they even had to physically 'move' the quest... just change where the portal used to be.

Believe me, if they were at ALL new quests... I guarantee the devs would have said... Mod 8, TEN NEW QUESTS!!! Which didn't happen.

And as far as flagging goes... yes, there is a flagging system now. You have to do The Ancient Daggers, the House D harbor quest, and I think the Ancient Scrolls in order to do what used to be Jacoby's old quest, now called Collaboration.
I had several characters where WW was the first thing I did after The 2 wavecrest quests. Not sure what your talking about there. SOunds like a New way to do things in Mod 8 NPE. Not a carry over from the OPE.

But since you think they changed Threnal... then yes... that would also be an example of them going back and changing flagging mechanics. No one complains about Threnal because it's bad that they change flagging mechanics... Read very carefully, people complain because they DIDN'T change DQ or VoN.

Why would people complain about something they wanted to happen? You need your coffee this morning, man.

I see people complaining because they they said "We wont revist old Quests" not that they dont like the DQ and Dragon flagging. Its come up over and over in this thread and others as well. Stop whining about turbing saying they wont revisit old stuff and start bringing up the actual problems. When TUrbne realizes people are not doing new content over and over, perhaps they will see the mistake they made and remove the Reflagging for Sorjak.

What I'm saying is Dont complan about something they said in an unrelated article 6 months ago. Complain about the actual problem you see TODAY. Turbine has shown us countless times that they do indeed revist old content for a number of reasons. THe case just needs to be strong enough.

[DoctorWhofan]

Impaqt, he's talking about the new quests in the new newbie area. Which is a nice revamp. Nice stuff too. I bet the PD'ers are happy!:p

[Impaqt]

Impaqt, he's talking about the new quests in the new newbie area. Which is a nice revamp. Nice stuff too. I bet the PD'ers are happy!:p
I know that. I have a character in there now. I'm just having a hard time grasping where the "Changes" in order you "Must do things" is comng from. I can only recall the 2 wavecrest quests having any requirement at all to progress. anything else is just a new way to do things. Turbine wants new players to experience certain aspects of the new area.... I dont see a problem with that at all. Its just back to headstart actually. You HAD to do lowroad or the three goodblade quests in order to get into the Harbor back then. there was a Gate. They removed that requirement. It must of become evident that new players were not getting the introduction to the game they needed... They would join a "Lowbie" group for something like WW as soon as they got out of the wavecrest and hte experience was Horrible because of all us zergers. I have no problem with forcing people to actually learn the game first.

[bobbryan2]

I see people complaining because they they said "We wont revist old Quests" not that they dont like the DQ and Dragon flagging. Its come up over and over in this thread and others as well. Stop whining about turbing saying they wont revisit old stuff and start bringing up the actual problems. When TUrbne realizes people are not doing new content over and over, perhaps they will see the mistake they made and remove the Reflagging for Sorjak.

What I'm saying is Dont complan about something they said in an unrelated article 6 months ago. Complain about the actual problem you see TODAY. Turbine has shown us countless times that they do indeed revist old content for a number of reasons. THe case just needs to be strong enough.


An UNRELATED article? Please, it was in direct response to a request for them to change the flagging method of getting into the raids. They're showing with the newb area that they're willing to alter some flagging methods... but apparantly only when it's their idea.

Obviously they'll revisit quests... they just say that they won't.

That's my point.

You're telling me, that during the entire revamp process, no one posed the quest... what about people that are already on some of these quests? How do we deal with people that have finished ancient scrolls, but not done House D quests? How do we make it so that not everyone is screwed.

They had to have asked those quests at some point during the revamp. And before, we were told they wouldn't alter the DQ and Vons, because they didn't want to address those questions... "how do we deal with people that are currently on Von 2...?" Flagged or not flagged?

[Pyromaniac]

/signed for the OP

[Mindspat]

Meaning don't make the Intimidate DC so high that it's almost a waste to have the intim fail in there like it does now.

I am also aware that the difficulty was scaled previous to MOD 8 but to almost revamp the spawn rate, drop rate of gem stones, beholder spawn, along with increased DC's of Xxyyzz's ability to be effectively intim'd should have been more balanced in my opinion.

What I mean by what I said above is if a person has designed a character with a specific raid in mind and they build a character, and grind them to 16 knowing all along that it was designed to be able to perform a certain task they should be able to continue to complete this task. I.E> a way of the acrobat build rogue or a high intimidate a/c meele build. I think the recent increase to the dc check on the hound may have been a little unecessary for normal difficulty.

I'm not saying that strageties can't be adjusted and I am well aware that there are methods to beat the raid without intim. But I mean if someone designed a character with a mid 50's Intim to specifically be able to intim the hound and not fail even on a 1 then a recent change to the raid jus made that persons build that much less effective.


Flavor Of The Month!

On the other hand, a character with a high Intimidate is still as effective. Just because there's a Super Bad Ass Elite MoFo Hound From Hell Raid Boss that you cannot use that single skill on where as ALL other lesser denziens are otherwise affected is fine. This is like crying about not being able to Trip this <insert name> raid boss.


The fotm is what it is, good till the 1st of the next month. :D

[TheGladiator]

but I hate when they use "we don't revisit old content" as an excuse to not fix things.

Strange, I thought I seen a new harbor area :D

[Mindspat]

::make believe stuff::

I thought the official word of "will not revist quests" was directly related to how flagging raids was done. They've always changed, modified and improved older stuff so I think your quote was pulled out of your backside. :rolleyes: