Upcoming Lag from Module 7

[SaintJonathan]

So I hate to be the instigator of bad tidings, but, due to the track record of this game, I feel it's an appropriate question, so here goes:

"What sort of precautions are being implemented to guard against debilitating lag with the release of Mod 7? Are you anticipating a return of massive amounts of players? Has everything actually been tested? Have you consulted your notes from previous mishaps in order to make an educated guess as to what might cause lag with the release of this highly anticipated patch? And how long to do you think the servers will remain unplayable until you resolve the lag from this forthcoming update?"

[Club'in]

If my gaming session from last night is any indicator, they still haven't fixed the lag from the last patch. My party was in Cabal and Feast last night, and getting the usual; rubberbanding, multisecond freezes, inability to receive a 'to hit' roll followed by a rush of red numbers all at once. Many party members agreed that the game was approaching unplayable. This is within an hour of me checking the Who list, and seeing maybe 200 people on. Maybe closer to 100.

[JacknCoke]

Lag Is Fine Get A New Pc!

[Ransacked]

I was in a 3 person party (Wife, brother, and myself) and we all hit a short duration lag spike last night which lasted about 5 seconds. Nothing major but it was definately noticable.

For what it's worth it's not my PC...

[JacknCoke]

lag is fine call your ISP and have them up your BW

[Club'in]

Multiple people in voice chat complained about it at the exact same time.

[Borrigain]

Lag Is Fine Get A New Pc!

Lag is NOT fixed Jack.

I have brand new top of the line PC, 2 months old, custom build that can play anything on the market right now.

Last night I took a spike against Velah, received none of the buffs, the group went on haste and I stood there Nekked. Needless to say I died because when you are a second behind, you don't get buffs, you don't get heals, all you get is DEAD.

So then, cuz it was late a few of us in different areas of the country monitored our latency rates. In CA, with cable modem that speedtest clocked with 3.5Mpbs down from Portland ME (close to Turbine) I was running an ave of 120ms with 2% loss, and I normally run around 30ms ave. with 0% loss.

I was spiking at various times to 2,400ms and around 5% loss. Guildee of mine in FL was having similar spikes but his ave was 80ms with almost no loss, and a buddy in Maryland was only spiking to about 500ms with 0% loss.

Now, that said, my tracert to ddo showed a slowdown in Chicago (AT&T), but only 140ms, everything else was in the 30-60 range as my signal traveled across US. As it should be. My guildee was not traveling thru Chicago, so that would explain my averages compared to his. As I used to have just 30 or so, those jackholes at AT&T must be working on something in that area.

However, that does not explain the spikes. My wife working on similar high-end computer next to me was NOT experiencing any delays (I don't want to hear it was the other computer's fault because the numbers I'm giving are with her sitting there playing "collapse" and watching me play). The problems are new and only started after the last offical "hotfix". As my buddies were experiencing similar spikes at the same time I was (not quite as bad as I'm farther away and my delay is magnified), so it's NOT our computers.

As we could play fine, and then BANG! spike!, it's my opinion there is a Mynock running around in Turbine's servers chewing on the power cables..... :D Yes, some network problems are interferring with my connection, and are compounding the lag from Turbine's servers, but the problem is still there.

Don't get me wrong, the most recent "patch" at least made the game playable (as it was not before), but the underlying problem is STILL there.

Please don't berate posters just because YOU are not experiencing the problem (I guess living in Puff's magic land has magical connections...:D, I kid, I kid, or are you in Thailand?), have a little more compassion and maybe post your numbers so Turbine can get a feel for what's happened to who and where.


Borr.

Edit: Oh, and it's not Service Pack 3 either, as I am running it but the wife is not (still SP2 atm), and she plays DDO also. And we are both experiencing the spikes at same time. And before hot fix we could play together and have ZERO problems with the connection.

[bnrilfun]

Please Please Please figure out what is causing the lag. Since they made traps deadlier, its kind of a pain to lag overtop of a jumped trap and then find out you took several seconds of damage from the trap while you were waiting for your animations to complete the jump which failed.

[thatguy]

So I hate to be the instigator of bad tidings, but, due to the track record of this game, I feel it's an appropriate question, so here goes:

"What sort of precautions are being implemented to guard against debilitating lag with the release of Mod 7? Are you anticipating a return of massive amounts of players? Has everything actually been tested? Have you consulted your notes from previous mishaps in order to make an educated guess as to what might cause lag with the release of this highly anticipated patch? And how long to do you think the servers will remain unplayable until you resolve the lag from this forthcoming update?"


Debilitating lag with mod 7? Last night was the laggiest for me in the game ever. At one point I was getting 25% packet loss. Terrible. I hope it was just because of the storm we had last night and nothing else.

[Theboz]

Lag is NOT fixed Jack.

I have brand new top of the line PC, 2 months old, custom build that can play anything on the market right now.

Last night I took a spike against Velah, received none of the buffs, the group went on haste and I stood there Nekked. Needless to say I died because when you are a second behind, you don't get buffs, you don't get heals, all you get is DEAD.

So then, cuz it was late a few of us in different areas of the country monitored our latency rates. In CA, with cable modem that speedtest clocked with 3.5Mpbs down from Portland ME (close to Turbine) I was running an ave of 120ms with 2% loss, and I normally run around 30ms ave. with 0% loss.

I was spiking at various times to 2,400ms and around 5% loss. Guildee of mine in FL was having similar spikes but his ave was 80ms with almost no loss, and a buddy in Maryland was only spiking to about 500ms with 0% loss.

Now, that said, my tracert to ddo showed a slowdown in Chicago (AT&T), but only 140ms, everything else was in the 30-60 range as my signal traveled across US. As it should be. My guildee was not traveling thru Chicago, so that would explain my averages compared to his. As I used to have just 30 or so, those jackholes at AT&T must be working on something in that area.

However, that does not explain the spikes. My wife working on similar high-end computer next to me was NOT experiencing any delays (I don't want to hear it was the other computer's fault because the numbers I'm giving are with her sitting there playing "collapse" and watching me play). The problems are new and only started after the last offical "hotfix". As my buddies were experiencing similar spikes at the same time I was (not quite as bad as I'm farther away and my delay is magnified), so it's NOT our computers.

As we could play fine, and then BANG! spike!, it's my opinion there is a Mynock running around in Turbine's servers chewing on the power cables..... :D Yes, some network problems are interferring with my connection, and are compounding the lag from Turbine's servers, but the problem is still there.

Don't get me wrong, the most recent "patch" at least made the game playable (as it was not before), but the underlying problem is STILL there.

Please don't berate posters just because YOU are not experiencing the problem (I guess living in Puff's magic land has magical connections...:D, or are you in Thailand?), have a little more compassion and maybe post your numbers so Turbine can get a feel for what's happened to who and where.


Borr.

I have a slow Athlon 64 3500+ computer and I dont get lag, some but nothing to complain about(few sec.), im even dowloading torrents while playing and i have never seen any packet loss, except when my Internet provider cut a cable down south and it effect all the mid west with insight or comcast

Your gaming experience is only good as your connection to DDO.

If you have a faulty driver for your Nic, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty firewall, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty router, how will turbine fix that
if you have a fualty modem, how will turbine fix that
if you have a slow connection, how will turbine fix that
if you have a connection that is over saturated(cable), how will turbine fix that
if you have a screwed up routing table(out of your control to fix), how will turbine fix that


Have I forgotten anything,

Have you posted anything so turbine can try to diagnose the problem, like your DX diag, tracert, connection type.

How will turbine know what to fix, if anything to help you. You have not given anything to help them at all.

[DelScorcho]

I have a slow Athlon 64 3500+ computer and I dont get lag, some but nothing to complain about(few sec.)

Your gaming experience is only good as your connection to DDO.

If you have a faulty driver for your Nic, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty firewall, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty router, how will turbine fix that
if you have a fualty modem, how will turbine fix that
if you have a slow connection, how will turbine fix that
if you have a connection that is over saturated(cable), how will turbine fix that
if you have a screwed up routing table(out of your control to fix), how will turbine fix that


Have I forgotten anything,

Have you posted anything so turbine can try to diagnose the problem, like your DX diag, tracert, connection type.

How will turbine know what to fix, if anything to help you. You have not given anything to help them at all.

So each subscriber of DDO should send DX diag, tracert, connection type info to Turbine and the lag problem would be fixed. Seems much easier than Turbine correcting what they did with the last patch.:D

[Hambo]

lag is fine call your ISP and have them up your BW

If you use broadband cable there have been some protocol improvements in the last couple of years... Check to see if they can push an update to your router or if they can swap in a new one with the updates.

[EDIT] I'm studying for my Cisco certifications, which is how I know about this... there hasn't been a whole lot of publicity about it but if your ISP supports the updates they should swap your router if they've moved to a newer model. As for myself, when I start re-building my home network to use "industrial grade" equipment I'll be replacing my cable modem with something I have complete control over.

[wrigghawk]

Look,
The lag problem is real, it is not peoples computers, as the problem is widespread, experienced at exactly the same time by all members of a party, and has been (in my mind at least) definitively proved to be a problem at Turbine. (By the fact that people in widely divergent geographic areas, experience the same lag, while thier wife sitting next to them on a similar or better machine, has no lag or lesser lag). This is probably a bandwidth problem at turbine resulting from poor coding resulting in many more packets being sent which occasionally overload thier bandwidth capabilities, or just plain bandwidth problems at thier server farm. Since the lag spike issue arose directly after a code update, I tend to lean towards the poor coding option. Yes it's turbine's problem, yes this is a pay to play game, and yes its up to the subscribers to determine what is playable and what is not. When it's not, we walk plain and simple. Turbine understands this, and know they need to fix the problem. The very fact that they are not responding to this issue makes me believe that they either are not experiencing the problem and hence dont believe in it, or that they are aware of the problem and dont have a fix and so have nothing constructive to offer. If the latter is the case, turbine, telling us that you acknowledge the problem exists, that you are working on it, and will keep us updated goes a long way towards alleviating customer concerns. A lesson you should have already learned but apparently have not....

Namanda - Khyber

[GreenGurgler]

As usuall, JacknCoke is here to provide 'usefull' feedback in the form of slams to others posted problems.


Lag Is Fine Get A New Pc!


lag is fine call your ISP and have them up your BW


If everyone in a party and other guildies all experience lag spikes at the same time, for the same duration, how can this be caused by the client side PC? It seems a reasonable thing to question. Rather than rush to slam the op for having an inferior PC or connection, maybe consider that it is POSSSIBLE the issue isnt on the client side but the server side?

Do you work for Turbine that you can say with such certainty that the server side isnt causing/experiencing lag? Have you been to the the OP's home, do you know that his computer and connection are in fact poor?

In my experience, I and the groups I have been in have been experiencing alot of lag spikes and stutters (all of us at the same time) since the last mod/update. It got a little better after their hotfix but it is still not as good as it was BEFORE the MOD. If the game ran just fine(on the whole) for the last 2 years, and all of a sudden IMMEDIETLY after a major mod/update things start getting laggy, it is reasonable to assume that the problem is due to some circumstance outside of the client side.

[Razvan]

Look,
The lag problem is real, it is not peoples computers, as the problem is widespread, experienced at exactly the same time by all members of a party, and has been (in my mind at least) definitively proved to be a problem at Turbine. (By the fact that people in widely divergent geographic areas, experience the same lag, while thier wife sitting next to them on a similar or better machine, has no lag or lesser lag). This is probably a bandwidth problem at turbine resulting from poor coding resulting in many more packets being sent which occasionally overload thier bandwidth capabilities, or just plain bandwidth problems at thier server farm. Since the lag spike issue arose directly after a code update, I tend to lean towards the poor coding option. Yes it's turbine's problem, yes this is a pay to play game, and yes its up to the subscribers to determine what is playable and what is not. When it's not, we walk plain and simple. Turbine understands this, and know they need to fix the problem. The very fact that they are not responding to this issue makes me believe that they either are not experiencing the problem and hence dont believe in it, or that they are aware of the problem and dont have a fix and so have nothing constructive to offer. If the latter is the case, turbine, telling us that you acknowledge the problem exists, that you are working on it, and will keep us updated goes a long way towards alleviating customer concerns. A lesson you should have already learned but apparently have not....

Namanda - Khyber


I never (read that 99.99999% of the time) had lag in Mod 1, never in Mod 2, never in Mod 3, never in Mod 4, never in Mod 5, NEVER IN MOD 6...and I don't have lag now...

What can I say, I love ROgers Cable!

[tuttman1234]

Lag is definitely a big problem. I was running through STK last night, and right at the end the entire party got about 2 seconds of lag, and when we came back into sync, 3 people were incap (from full health) and the rest of us were not far behind. We got lucky and didn't TPK, but it was closer than I am usually comfortable with, and it causes 2 people to miss out on the chest at the end. Please fix this problem. It's hard enough being the only cleric on a quest in a fight like that. It's even worse when the game system help the bad guys.


Prenia - Thelanis

[Borrigain]

I have a slow Athlon 64 3500+ computer and I dont get lag, some but nothing to complain about(few sec.), im even dowloading torrents while playing and i have never seen any packet loss, except when my Internet provider cut a cable down south and it effect all the mid west with insight or comcast

Your gaming experience is only good as your connection to DDO.

If you have a faulty driver for your Nic, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty firewall, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty router, how will turbine fix that
if you have a fualty modem, how will turbine fix that
if you have a slow connection, how will turbine fix that
if you have a connection that is over saturated(cable), how will turbine fix that
if you have a screwed up routing table(out of your control to fix), how will turbine fix that


Have I forgotten anything,

Have you posted anything so turbine can try to diagnose the problem, like your DX diag, tracert, connection type.

How will turbine know what to fix, if anything to help you. You have not given anything to help them at all.

Umm.....maybe the FACT that I play multiple MMO's and don't seem to HAVE ANY PROBLEM with them last night. ONLY DDO!

It's not a figment of my imagination and it is NOT my computer, the ONLY time I experience it with ANYTHING is with DDO.

/sheesh.

And it's not ALL THE TIME. It's spotty. So you may not be experiencing it at the times you play.

Borr.

[Hambo]

I have a slow Athlon 64 3500+ computer and I dont get lag, some but nothing to complain about(few sec.), im even dowloading torrents while playing and i have never seen any packet loss, except when my Internet provider cut a cable down south and it effect all the mid west with insight or comcast

Your gaming experience is only good as your connection to DDO.

If you have a faulty driver for your Nic, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty firewall, how will turbine fix that
if you have a faulty router, how will turbine fix that
if you have a fualty modem, how will turbine fix that
if you have a slow connection, how will turbine fix that
if you have a connection that is over saturated(cable), how will turbine fix that
if you have a screwed up routing table(out of your control to fix), how will turbine fix that


Have I forgotten anything,

Have you posted anything so turbine can try to diagnose the problem, like your DX diag, tracert, connection type.

How will turbine know what to fix, if anything to help you. You have not given anything to help them at all.

Not to discount anyone elses' issues, but every time I've seen any kind of lag in relation to Turbine the tracerts that I have run place the slowest connections within AT&T... Generally my routes bounce from Sac, Ca. to SF and back to Sac within Comcast's network, all at <25ms, then to San Jose into Level3 at similar speeds, and finally into AT&T in Chicago at never less than 95ms, often a lot higher. This does not mean that Turbine is perfect, but that any minor spikes they have can be amplified by various interconnects, and if I recall correctly, Turbine uses AT&T for connectivity.

I don't know what the competitive environment is in Turbine's area, but it's always a good practice to have backup connections, and best practice "rules" are to use a completely seperate ISP.

[scampb]

I never (read that 99.99999% of the time) had lag in Mod 1, never in Mod 2, never in Mod 3, never in Mod 4, never in Mod 5, NEVER IN MOD 6...and I don't have lag now...

What can I say, I love ROgers Cable!

I have Rogers too. It is not your provider as I do experience lag.

[BurnerD]

Lag Is Fine Get A New Pc!

I hope you are being sarcastic...

[Hambo]

Look,
The lag problem is real, it is not peoples computers, as the problem is widespread, experienced at exactly the same time by all members of a party, and has been (in my mind at least) definitively proved to be a problem at Turbine. (By the fact that people in widely divergent geographic areas, experience the same lag, while thier wife sitting next to them on a similar or better machine, has no lag or lesser lag). This is probably a bandwidth problem at turbine resulting from poor coding resulting in many more packets being sent which occasionally overload thier bandwidth capabilities, or just plain bandwidth problems at thier server farm. Since the lag spike issue arose directly after a code update, I tend to lean towards the poor coding option. Yes it's turbine's problem, yes this is a pay to play game, and yes its up to the subscribers to determine what is playable and what is not. When it's not, we walk plain and simple. Turbine understands this, and know they need to fix the problem. The very fact that they are not responding to this issue makes me believe that they either are not experiencing the problem and hence dont believe in it, or that they are aware of the problem and dont have a fix and so have nothing constructive to offer. If the latter is the case, turbine, telling us that you acknowledge the problem exists, that you are working on it, and will keep us updated goes a long way towards alleviating customer concerns. A lesson you should have already learned but apparently have not....

Namanda - Khyber

It all depends on whether or not both players are running the same game... One person might be running DDO (near Boston, Ma.) and the other might be running something else, say in Atlanta. Ga. Can you see how this would put both computers on completely seperate routes? The Boston route may be laggy as heck, but the Atlanta route could be clear as a bell, thus the different results.

In another thread on lag, I posted a link to http://speedtest.net/, a sitet set up to test broadband speeds. I also suggested using "Ping" and "Tracert" to check the route directly to Turbine. One person who used these tools found that AT&T couldn't even return an ICMP echo packet without CRC errors to his ISP. An ICMP echo is simply a response to the digital "Can you hear me know?" command from "Ping". This person's ISP was definitely having issues with AT&T.

Whenever you have more than one Service provide involved, there can also be "border disputes", especially when it's time to negotiate interconnect contract fees. Sometimes, the company wanting more money can let the interconnects degrade a bit, trying to put pressure on the other company. I'm not saying this is the case, but I have personally seen a company I worked for let an issue sit around for a little while before fixing it, just to prove a point.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

lag™ has been determined by Turbine as copyrighted and protected.
To use the term lag™ without the express permission of Turbine is against the EULA and may result in a permanent ban™ or other penalties™ ...have a nice day™.
(Trebucket...I have found you!)

[juniorpfactors]

I have experienced essentially 0 lag for 20+ months of ddo BUT since the patch I finally see what people are talking about

Last night in GH quests and Elite Shroud we kept getting it.....I would throw a Heal ...my mana gone....tank gets nothing....my bard registers no swings..........................

ITs the patch and its NOT fixed


jrp

[Helstrom]

What do all the people who experience lag at the same time have in common ?

Same ISP's ?
Same route to the DDO server ?
Same computer hardware ?
Same bandwidth ?
Same home router ?
Same video cards ?
Same monitor ?

Nope, none of it is the same.

The only common factor is the DDO server.

I know rocket science is actually much easier than what you all at Turbine do, but please try to fix it.

[Razvan]

I have Rogers too. It is not your provider as I do experience lag.


And I don't...uhm, what does that tell you?

[jaitee]

lag is there for sure

pretty sure its on DDO's side aswell

[esoitl]

all i can say is in my year plus of playing i have rarely had any serious lag issues

the massive stackables used to cause some lag when opening chests but thats it and seems to be fixed..... i don't know what other people are doing to get lag issues but i don't really see them

i'm playing off a laptop with a shat factory video card and using Vista.....
i don't even think i am much above the reccomended systems requirements besides RAM and processor speed

[jaitee]

all i can say is in my year plus of playing i have rarely had any serious lag issues

the massive stackables used to cause some lag when opening chests but thats it and seems to be fixed..... i don't know what other people are doing to get lag issues but i don't really see them

i'm playing off a laptop with a shat factory video card and using Vista.....
i don't even think i am much above the reccomended systems requirements besides RAM and processor speed

tbh with you, i play on a laptop, which when i run it through, CanYouRunit? it fails.... LOL the check for DDO, well the only thing that fails is my vid.card

and i barely lag, i think what most people are talking about is...

Fighting Pit Fiend.... all of a sudden 10 people hit a lag spike, 8 of them die!!!!

now that cant possibly be everyones BW, PC all at the same time can it? maybe? but that would be weird..