Is there hope for WarForged Barbs?

[avatar28]

Hey guys.

Well I have a multiclass Barb, I love playing him.. and i'm almost at 1750 favor, so when I build 32 point toon, I want him to be PURE Barb. No 2 splashes of fighter, just 16 all the way. I was in a PUG group and 2 guys said they have 4 or 5 capped toons (including barbs). I told them of my plans to build a pure WF barb ( 2WF ). They laughed and said I was going to regret making a WF cause by the time I get around to running high end quests, NOBODY was going to invite me into quests like the shroud. They said WF were too much of a mana sponge, and clerics or sorcerers couldn't be bothered keeping them up. I thought about a couple of enhancements in healer's friend, but mostly I want all of the rage enhancements. According to them, Dwarf was the way to go. And they swore up and down that HP was where it's at. DR means nothing, and DPS means nothing when the pit fiend hits you with a delayed fireblast for 350+ points of damge, or melees you with 100+ per hit. They said toughness, dwarven toughness, and barb toughness to beef HP high as possible ( or at least above 450 unbuffed ) They said 150 extra HP means the difference between living and dieing, and even 30 DR means nothing.

I really love WF, but I don't want to waste all that time building him, if i'm going to be soloing everything. I like being in parties, and I don't want people to reject me cause i'm too much maintaince.


I would love for capped WF barbs to defend these statements, and let me know if there is hope for WF end game.

[Averroes]

Those puggers are clearly noobs.

Barbs don't have enough action points left over after taking the useful enhancements to waste any on garbage like toughness. Maybe 1 rank in one of the lines, but certainly not multiple ranks in multiple lines.

Not being a noob means far more than any number of hitpoints, anyway. Carrying a stack of fire pro pots means you won't ever eat a 350-pt fireball (although, even if you do, a barb with no con item and 16 con will have more than 350 hitpoints...), and having at least one cleric that isn't afk or asleep (or, like, watching your own health and backing out) means those extra 150 hitpoints don't really matter either.


And, uh, DR and DPS > everything else when you're a barb.

[Cowdenicus]

You want to be a two weapon fighting pure barbarian? Go human. The same 2 points you invest as a WF for that healers friend can be used as a human the same way, except you dont have the WF penalty. Your to be healed is 110%.

Humans are the only race that can add a point of strength through enhancements.

Humans start off with no bad stats in Dex or Con. A huge plus to a two weapon fighting Barbarian.

Humans get a bonus feat, and as we know Barbarians are feat starved.

My opinion, but I love my TWF HUMAN Barbarian.

[Illuminati]

I've been looking at them a bit again since I deleted Illuminum. I even scored a Docent of Defiance and some other stuff off the auction pretty cheap.

The problem I see , and I see it often, is the healing animus. The one thing I could recommend is to partner with a caster and it would probably be an awesome combo and you would get a ton of groups. Unfortunately, but the time you take healers friend III, etc. you watered yourself down too much and lose what you are.

Have a caster duo with you though, and its a different story. I have seen guys pass our Reconstruction scrolls, etc. but it slows the group down and there is some resistance. I would recommend just off healing as much as possible and putting something in your bio regarding what your heal % is at, etc.

Good luck

[TommyBoy]

Dude you want a WF barb role a WF barb. To hell with everyone else. WF get a con line, nat dr, and nat fort. What good are HP for the pit fiend when you cant do enough dmg to even get there. The shroud is only one quest there are a ton of others that dmg well mean alot even if there arguement was even remotely right (which it most likely isnt).

[Halpo]

People are dumb yes I said DUMB if they think you will not find a group at high levels. I play a 16 Warforged barb on Sarlona. There are very few people who can out DPS me. Heck I am easier to heal than any fleshie. I have a DR/20 on every end boss for almost the duration of any fight due to my docent. who can beat DR/20. lets talk damage I hit for 240- 280 on a crit. HMMMM people grab me as soon as I log on with him because they know yes Grunaxe is going to take out what ever is needed. People who hate warforges and complain about healing them need to wake their NOOB butts up. Warforge Barb's are the BEST DPS in the game for the healing they will need when done right.

[Oreg]

Good points by the reply posters.

However, I will answer what seemed to me to be your main concern with an agreement of your buddies' comments. You will be less desired than a fleshie barb. Period. You will still get invites but in a PUG group if it is you and someone else capable of doing any dps at all - they will take him. For the simple reason that you will be a pain in the butt to heal. Plan on chugging lots and lots and lots of pots.

This thread has some more similar info http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=144423

*edited* Changed the healers friends feats. Never played a wf :)

[LOUDRampart]

I say if you want a WF twf Barb, go for it. I can see the benefits of WF as clearly as everyone else can. But here are the negatives:

Player prejudice. I had no idea to what degree this is until I built a WF Ranger and started getting those statements. As someone who has played healers, I never thought less of WF other then noticing some are more difficult to heal then others.

Rust monsters hate you. I can't believe how fast my WF Ranger and WF Wizzy are eaten alive by those things. Grant it it is situational, but when you are near them, they will find you.

I think if I ever would make another barb (and I don't plan too) I would make a WF twf. (My Dorf 2hf is enough fun :) )

BTW, at the end game, I see lots of WF so the belief by those noobs that WF can't play in the end game is clearly inaccurate, at least from my perspective.

[BlackSteel]

healer friend FEATS????

its an enhancement line tyvm, and you get plenty of APs to burn. And most wf barb would only recommend taking the first line of it anyway, as tier 2 n 3 are really really expensive for the benefit.

all in all i'd have to agree with halpo, at cap i've never noticed someone choosing another race over myself.

and that docent surely does rock, and i recommend it to about every wf i talk to.

[Qzipoun]

Is there hope for a WarForged Barb? Yes.

Is there hope for a PUG-friendly WarForged Bad? No.

If you run mostly in guild groups it shouldn't be a problem to find a mage to repair you, but if you're going in PUGs, don't be surprised if people don't want to heal you.

[Halpo]

Pug friendly warforges everyone crying cracks me up. OMG I pug alot with Grunaxe. I fill groups fast when I am on with Grunaxe. PUG friendly not hahahaha. Believe me warforges can be friendly. As for healing lets get over it as a 16th or 15th level cleric your heal spells do what 250-280 on a non crit so you heal a warforge for around 180-200. Sniff sniff I think I have a tear for you some where let me find it. ah heck no I don't and YES I do play a cleric. Do I cry heck no I would rather have a warforge before almost any fleshie. WHY? Because he knows how to play in most cases because people refuse to support him for some dumb reason. So in the end that makes almost any warforge player the better player. Think about it.

[Averroes]

Pug friendly warforges everyone crying cracks me up. OMG I pug alot with Grunaxe. I fill groups fast when I am on with Grunaxe. PUG friendly not hahahaha. Believe me warforges can be friendly. As for healing lets get over it as a 16th or 15th level cleric your heal spells do what 250-280 on a non crit so you heal a warforge for around 180-200. Sniff sniff I think I have a tear for you some where let me find it. ah heck no I don't and YES I do play a cleric. Do I cry heck no I would rather have a warforge before almost any fleshie. WHY? Because he knows how to play in most cases because people refuse to support him for some dumb reason. So in the end that makes almost any warforge player the better player. Think about it.

Plus, a 16th level cleric with empower healing is looking at non-crit heals of ~450 -- so unless they're letting fleshy barbs drop to ~10% health before healing them, they're often over-healing.

And really, except in raids you should pretty much plan on healing yourself regardless of whether you're a human, dorf, warforged, or kobold. If you find that you're taking more damage in a given fight than you can heal with potions while running to the next one, you should most likely re-evaluate your tactics. There are a few places where actual in-combat healing is nice, but there are probably under 10 encounters in the entire game that really require it.

[esoitl]

Good points by the reply posters.

However, I will answer what seemed to me to be your main concern with an agreement of your buddies' comments. You will be less desired than a fleshie barb. Period. You will still get invites but in a PUG group if it is you and someone else capable of doing any dps at all - they will take him. For the simple reason that you will be a pain in the butt to heal. Plan on chugging lots and lots and lots of pots.

This thread has some more similar info http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=144423

*edited* Changed the healers friends feats. Never played a wf :)

i have to disagree
as a cleric i often enjoy and will always get in the group of a certain WF Barb when i see his name up in the LFM
i've run with him enough to know i can heal him just the same as a dwarven Barb

[Mhykke]

As the previous posters indicated, the people you ran with didn't really know what they were talking about (2 toughness lines for a barb? Great use of APs there :rolleyes:. And DPS doesn't matter? I'd rather be the sole cleric in a group full of warforged barbs built for DPS than w/ their gimped 900 hit point barbs doing no damage.)

All they proved is that it's too easy to cap multiple characters. My suggestion, if you group w/ those guys again, don't listen to them.

[transtemporal]

People are dumb yes I said DUMB if they think you will not find a group at high levels. I play a 16 Warforged barb on Sarlona. There are very few people who can out DPS me. Heck I am easier to heal than any fleshie. I have a DR/20 on every end boss for almost the duration of any fight due to my docent. who can beat DR/20. lets talk damage I hit for 240- 280 on a crit. HMMMM people grab me as soon as I log on with him because they know yes Grunaxe is going to take out what ever is needed. People who hate warforges and complain about healing them need to wake their NOOB butts up. Warforge Barb's are the BEST DPS in the game for the healing they will need when done right.

You da man!

[Forceonature]

You da man!

I think you mean "Non-gender specific sentient construct." :D

[Kris_P._Letus]

too many good replys in here.

wf barb worth it? hecks yeah. my lvl 13 is a monster. i know that kill counts dont mean anything, and its only the last person to score the hit, but....it has to mean something when id say 90 percent of the time i have about 10-20 more kills then the person behind me in line. yes. sometimes i have off days when the rogue beats me. or even the ranger. but. like i said. 90 percent of the time.

forget what those other people say about dwarf bein the only way to go. they were dwarves that said that, werent they? yeah. thougt so. the same thing happens to me. people ask me what race is best to make a barb with. and of course i say wf. im a little biased i guess. :)

when i first made thudul, i was a little concerned over where to put my str/con score, wanting my con to be higher for more hp. but had a few people tell me that the best way to run him is to "kill them before they have a chance to hit you". i.e. damage (str) is more important then hp (con).

as ive seen posted in other places where they say high hp is the only way to go. you want me to have 1000 hps and do 20-30 points of damage per swing? or would you rather have me have 350 hp and doing 60-70 damage per swing, 200-250 on crits?

[Varr]

I can understand there being a bit of trouble for that first time player cleric at level 8 trying to heal a wf. Other than that, an experianced and endowed cleric should have no problem keeping a wf or couple wf healed esp after they have use of heal scrolls. As a cleric I will only slight a warforged inthat if that nasty flamestrike or delayed blast fireball comes and the entire party is instatly at 25% health the wf gets healed last typicaly of the fighters, in turn I would expect the first to be healed to be back in combat holding agro as the rest are healed back up. I cant remember the last time I ran into a Warforged with the unhealable fort option.

[maddmatt70]

I have to say this and yes I do play pretty frequently and tend to like to play elite raids and the like, but there needs to be more wf tanks out there especially if they keep producing shroud like raids. I have been on my guildies and friends case to make more warforged tanks because arcanes can be their primary healers. This is absolutely tremendous for elite shroud as it frees up party slots for arcanes, reduces cleric dependency and often gives the party more damage overall. It doesnt sound like you plan to be running elite shroud runs 2-5 times a week or something, but I thought I would give the people in this thread an example of where warforge have a huge advantage.

[Pyromaniac]

If you find some WF sorcs, or any type of mage out there to heal you, it should be no problem getting high level groups. If you're depending on clerical healing....well its going to be rough.

[Depravity]

Speaking from the experience of a lvl 16 wizard, one of my first questions upon getting into a group is "Anybody WF?", followed by me packing reconstruct. Level 6 spells aren't too hard to shuffle around for it, not like trying to squeeze in all the good level 4 spells.

I'll admit I'm not too good about following the little red bars, but I'm happy to try.

[Hvymetal]

Just try and make sure your Barb is in a group with The Mithril Hand if you're on Arggo, we all pack Reconstruct & scrolls and will watch ya if the worthless fleshies won't ;)

[Blind_Skwerl]

Do what you like. If you are weighing opinions in your descision and go with a fleshie (like I did for my re-roll), Do yourself a favor and try Illuminati's TWF human barb. It's a dps god!

[Shade]

Really WF have gotten allot better later due to the gear they can get.

Some of it is very rare/expensive so most WF do not even know about it or use it - but if you do you can be a very solid barbarian.

Namely the items/enhancements that negate the healing penalty:
- 50% base
- Healer friend III brings you to 75%
- Docent of flesh is -10% fort, +10 healing, so 85%
- Fleshmaker necklace +10%, for 95%

So 95% - your basicly as good as a dwarf now healing and hp wise. You lose 2 slots - but there rather unimportant slots because a) WF get free poison/disease imunity, so in cases where wearing those is important there equal to dwarf jewlery slots now. The armor slot really doesn't do much for a barb anyways - you do lose the docent of defiance, but I don't think it's that hot anyways, i've seen more WF get killed by wearing it then saved.

HP wise a WF barbarian should be equal to a dwarf. You do not need toughness at all, it's just a complete waste on a barbarian.. So thats what evens it out, I think come lvl20 cap where there are really no more dps feats to get more hp might matter which can bring the dwarf up by landing him the feat + the xtra AP to max it out.. But for now, 500+ hp is where its at and its very attainable without toughness.

Wear that equip (easier said then done) then the differences are small:
- lose a few AP for the healers friend, not a huge deal as really WF racial enhancements aren't great anyways
- no good racial weapon enhancement, while dwarf get the excellent axe enhancements
- WF get better power attack enhancement - howevr TWF cannot handle more then 2-3 anyways so its not a big benefit for you. But it does save 1-2 AP since you can mix the lines.
- Dwarven spell resist, +5 saves (+6 will) vs WF is major.. Biggest difference imo once you solve the healing problem.
- Dwarven axe feat for free - considering non-human TWF barbs can't really afford a weapon feat this is pretty huge.
- other minor benefits of dwarf: +4 ac vs giants, +4 balance

[Nick_RC]

Really WF have gotten allot better later due to the gear they can get.Disagree with some of your points shade. It is clear you havnt played an endgame WF barb.Firstly you shouldnt spend any action points past the first tier of healers friend. 1st =15% 2nd and 3rd is 5 apiece. Not worth it at all. Secondly never EVER remove the docent of defiance except for things like coalescence chamber and offering. That 20 dr procs very often - pit fiend fights i am permanently 20dr* far better than the boost in healing considering at 75 % - a decent cleric heals me nearly full anyway. That docent - IS THE BEST piece of kit for a barb atm - on par with madstone boots. I generally wear the choker when in static boss fights but finger necklace in other. In a way a wf tank is a boon in a run vs the pitfiend as you can get the wiz to reconstruct you while clerics heal the fleshies. turn a part where casters are less important and make one of them an impromptu cleric.Couple of ur points i jsut want to comment on.
Wear that equip (easier said then done) then the differences are small:- lose a few AP for the healers friend, not a huge deal as really WF racial enhancements aren't great anywaysAgain dont go past the first rank. secondly wf racial enhancements while not having the scope of a dwarf offer awesome benefits to a barb. Tactics same as dwarf for stun/trip. Power Attack enhancements - Max them. 2wf or 2 handed. Alot of people dont realise that too hits arnt that high in 99% of the content. The other 1% elite shroud orthons etc (non red-naed) ur faster using a vorpal...switch off PA. I have my 2wf 14 barb 2 ftr wf who has full PA enhancements maxed. There is not a single place i regret it. Shroud you should have a bard in there. Plain and simple the extra to hit puts you at the necessary too hit for the fiend. I run with the steady handed arm bands and never swing a weapon without being fully raged/hasted etc. Ur too hit is sufficiently high for any quest. DDO mellee is about the crits end game elite. WF allow you to crit higher than anyone...which brings me to this...
- no good racial weapon enhancement, while dwarf get the excellent axe enhancementsAxe enhancements are great...but at this stage in the Game crafted khopeshes are where its at. WF and dwarf using Khopeshes are at the same advantage - cue WF PA. WF >Dwarf and human. Like i said before crits are the big thing endgame elite and with a bloodstone you will confirm them. as a 2wf WF those 2 ftr levels are vital for Oversized 2wf and the khopesh feat. You said that a 2wf 2-3 PA enhancements are about all they can handle...O2WF and steady handed armbands make up for the 3 wfPA enhncements. Then looking at Crafted khopeshes vs Dwarven axes....
- WF get better power attack enhancement - however TWF cannot handle more then 2-3 anyways so its not a big benefit for you. But it does save 1-2 AP since you can mix the lines.See above.
- Dwarven spell resist, +5 saves (+6 will) vs WF is major.. Biggest difference imo once you solve the healing problem.This is where i think you have a valid point although saying that properly equipped barbs can get a good will save even if they are not dwarf as the +4 vs enchantments covers nigh on all will based saves. Not to mention immunity to hold. Also one of the best things about being wf is immunity to enervate and exhaustion. NOTHING slows these guys down. Having played both a fleshie and a wf barb those immunities are amazing. Not to mention disease and poison (goes without saying vs the fiend...). When you play them they just do not slow down....
- Dwarven axe feat for free - considering non-human TWF barbs can't really afford a weapon feat this is pretty huge.If they dont have 2 lvls of ftr.....itl be interesteing endgame to see what they do with mighty rage etc etc. But if they just keep it at another +2 you are only losing +1 str as ftr str1 and also gain two important feats.Who knows what the future will hold tho. In summary some of your points are well said but lack of experience with a wf barb engame leaves u lacking in the intracacies of them.N

[Strykersz]

- Dwarven spell resist, +5 saves (+6 will) vs WF is major.. Biggest difference imo once you solve the healing problem.

WF get an enhancement line that does the +3 bonus to will saves. The fort save part of dwarven spell resist is kind of irrelevant for a barb although I'm not sure how many reflex enchantments there are.


- Dwarven axe feat for free - considering non-human TWF barbs can't really afford a weapon feat this is pretty huge.

Stunning blow isn't that great of a feat.

[brshelton]

People are dumb yes I said DUMB if they think you will not find a group at high levels. I play a 16 Warforged barb on Sarlona. There are very few people who can out DPS me. Heck I am easier to heal than any fleshie. I have a DR/20 on every end boss for almost the duration of any fight due to my docent. who can beat DR/20. lets talk damage I hit for 240- 280 on a crit. HMMMM people grab me as soon as I log on with him because they know yes Grunaxe is going to take out what ever is needed. People who hate warforges and complain about healing them need to wake their NOOB butts up. Warforge Barb's are the BEST DPS in the game for the healing they will need when done right.

Bah Grunaxe is a gimp :P People grab you for your charming personality :)

[Nick_RC]

WF get an enhancement line that does the +3 bonus to will saves.* The fort save part of dwarven spell resist is kind of irrelevant for a barb although I'm not sure how many reflex enchantments there are.Stunning blow isn't that great of a feat.Reflex saves are REALLY important for a barb. Id say 60% of the damage you take during regular questing is AOE spells. Get a barb with a good reflex save and ul notice a hell of a difference. Stunning blow is sick on a barbarian. After the respective lines + PA and impr crit its the best choice.N

[Strykersz]

Reflex saves are REALLY important for a barb. Id say 60% of the damage you take during regular questing is AOE spells. Get a barb with a good reflex save and ul notice a hell of a difference. Stunning blow is sick on a barbarian. After the respective lines + PA and impr crit its the best choice.N

For some reason i was thinking it was a +save against enchantments. Yeah, the -5 to reflex saves is going to hurt but oh well.

[Chorus]

I have 3 WF’s and have no regret what so ever. I dominate on my WF Fighter / Barb / Wizard, and anyone who has run with me can’t tell you anything else. WHY? It’s not because I’m a WF, Dwarf, Human, etc. etc. etc….. It’s cause I know the limits of my characters, and I PLAY THEM RIGHT. Those noobs that were downing WF’s have no clue in the area of skills and its SAD that a lot of players out there are giving you bad advice.

Some “noobs” were making cracks about WF’s a little while ago in a shroud group I was in and I told them we would see what happened. Not only did I never die and out kill all of them, the 3 of them died a total of 12+ times. Just as we were breaking group I messaged them all, “nice job dying noobs, try rerolling as a WF”.


What is comes down to is understanding the advantages and disadvantages of your build and learning to play him right.

[soupertc]

I think any race is OK to play if ya want to play it. PUGs will be hard to get into. And I have to disagree that people who play warforged barbs or tanks tend to be good players. I've grouped with alot who might think they are.....but far from it.

Toasters are fun.....but some of the playing behind the toons are what ruins it for them.

[Verlock]

hey dont listin to them i used ot have a capped cleric and im remakeing one atm and loved wf barbs why more dps more dps is where its at wf get wf pa and most clerics will heal a wf the ones that dont our dumb or a noob so make your wf bard that does 250+ crits and see the dorf barbs doing 240s

[Hanam]

Reflex saves are REALLY important for a barb. Id say 60% of the damage you take during regular questing is AOE spells. Get a barb with a good reflex save and ul notice a hell of a difference. Stunning blow is sick on a barbarian. After the respective lines + PA and impr crit its the best choice.N

Only works if you hit them :D


P.S. reroll/buff people/kung fu