Questions about a 2-hand paladin build - a human with 18 strength?

[Ezekiah]

I'm rolling up a paladin to run with a regular group, and I plan on going the two-hand damage route.

Proposed stats are:
str 18
dex 8
con 8
int 8
wis 12
cha 16

I plan on taking toughness and the 4 toughness enhancements (as well as the save boost aura enhancements) to make up for the low scores, and taking PA, THF, GTHF, focus slash, and imp crit slash (plus toughness). human +1 to str and cha, paladin +3 cha, and 4/8/12 +3 to str. I plan to swing the biggest, meanest falchion I can find. I have zero gear, this is a fresh reroll on khyber


Are there any convincing reasons not to go this route? My thoughts were that the enhancements would make up for the hp, and of course I'd plan on wearing full plate, and rounding out scores with items, but a base str of 22 without items would be big fun. I'd just as soon not rely on any tomes (if a +2 drops, great). We will not be raiding - casual one night a week stuff.

[Blazer]

Pull that CHA down to 14 and push that CON up to 12. Starting with a negative to your HP is just plain silly.

Feats should be Toughness, THF, ITHF, GTHF, PA, and IC: Slashing. You won't be able to fit WF: Slashing since you need ITHF to get GTHF.

[binnsr]

I'm rolling up a paladin to run with a regular group, and I plan on going the two-hand damage route.

Proposed stats are:
str 18
dex 8
con 8
int 8
wis 12
cha 16

I plan on taking toughness and the 4 toughness enhancements (as well as the save boost aura enhancements) to make up for the low scores, and taking PA, THF, GTHF, focus slash, and imp crit slash (plus toughness). human +1 to str and cha, paladin +3 cha, and 4/8/12 +3 to str. I plan to swing the biggest, meanest falchion I can find. I have zero gear, this is a fresh reroll on khyber


Are there any convincing reasons not to go this route? My thoughts were that the enhancements would make up for the hp, and of course I'd plan on wearing full plate, and rounding out scores with items, but a base str of 22 without items would be big fun. I'd just as soon not rely on any tomes (if a +2 drops, great). We will not be raiding - casual one night a week stuff.


Personally, I would drop STR to 16 and shore up con and dex a bit..
Str 16
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 16

Also, falchions look cool, but great axes outdamage them by a significant amount..

[Ezekiah]

Personally, I would drop STR to 16 and shore up con and dex a bit..
Str 16
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 16

Also, falchions look cool, but great axes outdamage them by a significant amount..

Ah, I missed ITHF - I'm not that familiar with that line.

The thought about a falchion (or greatsword) is you have smaller crits, but more of them. This math makes sense for pnp, resulting in less "wasted crits" on weak enemies. I am unsure of how it plays out in ddo, as I have yet to get past level 3.4. The nice thing about this type of build though is I'm not tied to a particular weapon, just a particular damage type, so i can mix and match. I do prefer the appearance of a falchion, though.

The thought is, with something like a falchion and ic-slash, i'll see crits frequently, even if they aren't huge.

----

So, a vote to lower cha and raise con, and a vote to lower str and raise con - interesting.

I realize reducing hp right away is counterintuitive for a melee, but would I even notice with toughness at level 1 and the toughness enhancement at 1.1?

I guess it comes down to which will be worth more later, 2 str, 2 cha, or 4 -ish con (or 2con 2dex)

Er, hm, i seem to have counted my points wrong, too.

So:
16
10
10
8
12
16

H: PA
1: Toughness
3: THF
6: ITHF,
9: IC: Slashing
12: GTHF


I suppose I am not opposed to splashing fighter, either:
perhaps 10pal/4ftr
17
10
10
8
11
15

and take the paladin +3 cha, fighter +1 str, human +1 str, human +1 wis, and +3 str from levels, and I suppose I could pick up focus: slash, and specialization: slash, though I don't know what I'd do with the other feat. perhaps cleave?

[binnsr]

You can look at it this way:
-2 Cha =
-1 to all saves
less LoH power
less Smite damage
less intimidate (if you go that route)

-2 Str =
-1 to attack
-1 to damage

+2 Con =
14 more hp at lvl14

As to the 'will I notice' thing -- I don't think you really notice that your hitpoints suck until you play a character with better hitpoints and then come back to the one with lesser .. :cool:
For the feats you list, I would swap power attack and toughness around -- mostly because at lower levels, you feel the bite of the minus to your attack rolls from PA more.

If you want to splash fighter levels, I would go 3 fighter now (increase to 4 after the cap goes up again if you want), which gives you your 30-pt resists at pal11, as well as giving you the 3rd level fighter enhancements, which I think are pretty nice.

[juniorpfactors]

binnsr

has good advice......paly 11 fight 3.... pa should be taken later at any fighter lvl splash...with it on at lower levels you will miss very often unless you have a bard to buff....starting with a con lower than 12 is a mistake...i would find a way to start at 13 eat a tome+1 con ...that way you will be at 20 with a +6 item

[binnsr]

binnsr

has good advice......paly 11 fight 3.... pa should be taken later at any fighter lvl splash...with it on at lower levels you will miss very often unless you have a bard to buff....starting with a con lower than 12 is a mistake...i would find a way to start at 13 eat a tome+1 con ...that way you will be at 20 with a +6 item
regarding tomes, even if this is a 'fresh-off-the-boat-with-no-friends' character, you should plan your build around odd tomes and even items, because that's what's availabe at the end-game, as well as at the lvl20 endgame (at least that's what a Dev has stated previously). Just because you don't have one now, doesn't mean that you won't eventually have access to those tomes and items.

[Ezekiah]

So, I'm now to
pal11/ftr3
base:
15 str
10 dex
13 con
8 int
12 wis
15 cha

to end at:
20 str +3 levels, +1 ftr, +1 human
10 dex
14 con +1 human
8 int
12 wis
18 cha +3 pal

Any +2 tomes will plug right in, of course (this also lets me leave the +1 tomes for my less-planning-ahead-neurotic groupmates), as will +4 and +6 items, of course.


Also, according to my build calculator, enhancement attribute bonuses don't count towards feat prereqs. is that true?

[juniorpfactors]

i personally see no reason to have a wisdom of more than 9 or 10....you can pick up a +4/5 wis item anywhere to help you cast paly spell you only need a 13-14...easily had wisdom items +5 everywhere....drop wis to 9-10 or lower...keep str at 17

some may say thats not much mana...but reality is i just started a paly with 9 wis ate a +1 tome and already have a +6wis hat in bank so a 16 wis is more than enough and popx items are everywhere to give you more mana to cast 30 point resists

[Ezekiah]

that would mean...


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Paladin)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 94
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 17 22
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 9 9
Charisma 14 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 0 0
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 3 6
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 4 (Paladin)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I

Level 7 (Paladin)

Level 8 (Paladin)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)

Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV




Any particular issues with this build? (some enhancements are just to fill space)

[Fallout]

The one weapon for 2H is the carniflex. Its good till L10ish. If you can get it at low levels, it will be your weapon of choice until the SOS.

[ErgonomicCat]

binnsr

has good advice......paly 11 fight 3.... pa should be taken later at any fighter lvl splash...with it on at lower levels you will miss very often unless you have a bard to buff....starting with a con lower than 12 is a mistake...i would find a way to start at 13 eat a tome+1 con ...that way you will be at 20 with a +6 item

In the pen and paper game, fighter 3 is regarded as being worse than only one other level, and that's fighter 5.

Are there any enhancements that kick in at fighter 3 that make it worth taking? If not, I'd drop fighter 3 for Paladin 12.

[Ezekiah]

In the pen and paper game, fighter 3 is regarded as being worse than only one other level, and that's fighter 5.

Are there any enhancements that kick in at fighter 3 that make it worth taking? If not, I'd drop fighter 3 for Paladin 12.

apparently none that I plan on taking - some of the more tank-oriented ones, perhaps.

[binnsr]

12 Paladin Concentration IV Grants a +4 bonus to Concentration skill.
Action Points: 4 (must have spent 40 action points)
Prerequisites: Paladin Concentration III
12 Paladin Diplomacy IV Grants a +4 bonus to Diplomacy skill.
Action Points: 4 (must have spent 40 action points)
Prerequisites: Paladin Diplomacy III
12 Paladin Energy of the Templar III Grants an additional 20 spell points, bringing your total increase to 60 points.
Action Points: 3 (must have spent 41 action points)
Prerequisites: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
12 Paladin Extra Turning III You gain 3 additional turn undead attempts per rest.
Action Points: 3 (must have spent 41 action points)
Prerequisites: Paladin Extra Turning II
12 Paladin Heal IV Grants a +4 bonus to Heal skill.
Action Points: 4 (must have spent 40 action points)
Prerequisites: Paladin Heal III
vs.


3 Fighter Armor Mastery I Gives you the ability to move better in armor, increasing the Maximum Dexterity Bonus on your armor by +1. You may still be restricted by your tower shield's max Dex bonus.
Action Points: 2 (must have spent 6 action points)
3 Fighter Flanking Mastery I You gain an additional +1 bonus to attack rolls when flanking an enemy.
Action Points: 2 (must have spent 6 action points)
3 Fighter Mobility I Mobility grants you an additional +2 Armor Class bonus while tumbling.
Action Points: 1 (must have spent 7 action points)
Prerequisites: Mobility
3 Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I Gives you the ability to move better with a tower shield, increasing the Maximum Dexterity Bonus on your tower shield by +1. You may still be restricted by your armor's max Dex bonus.
Action Points: 2 (must have spent 2 action points)

The only reason that fighter 3 is considered a waste in PnP is because it is the first level that doesn't include a feat.
Depending on what you want to do with your character, the different enhancements available at different levels definately do play into what split you decide to go with..

[Slayer918]

Personally I wouldn't sepnd 10 aps for paly cha 2 and 3...

for those 10 aps you gain:
+1 to saves... your a palidan yours are gonna be high anyways not a huge deal
+21-24 points per LoH nice perk hardly necassary (equal to 3 cure serious wounds potions/charges per shrine if you take extra LoH)
-2 to hit on your smite evils (although your already at +10 - +14 so this isnt huge either as your base to hit first swing should be around +30 which is plenty to hit almost anything... let alone +40 smites... damage is (or should be) based on paly level not cha

Non of these scream out at me as worth the 10 aps but just my opinion...

I would put str over cha personally... you swing a lot more then you try to make saves so 1 extra hit over 20 swings on average and 1-2 damage (Since your THF this will vary) may not look like a lot... but it does add up...

And while yes falchions mathmatically do more damage in DDO they swing a lot slower then greataxes

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

For a build without any Tomes, and 2-handed fighting, try this:

Yes, it has more Dex than you can use in your armor, but it will help keep your reflex save up, and if you ever find +3 Mithral Full Plate or better, you will have better overall AC

11 Paladin / 3 Fighter

Level 14 Human

Stats:
---------------
STR: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 1 (Human Adapt 2 STR) + 1 (Fighter's STR 1) + 6 (Item) = 28 (+9)
DEX: 12 + 6 (Item) = 18 (+4)
CON: 15 + 1 (Human Adapt 1 CON) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
INT: 8
WIS: 9 + 5 (Item) = 14 (+2)
CHA: 14 + 2 (Paladin Cha 2) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
---------------


Level Progression:
---------------
Level 1: Fighter
Level 2-12: Paladin
Level 13-14: Fighter
---------------


Feats:
---------------
1) Two-Handed Fighting
1B) Power Attack
3) Toughness
6) Improved Two-Handed Fighting
9) Improved Critical: Slashing
12) Greater Two-Handed Fighting
13B) Weapon Focus: Slashing


Hit Points:
---------------
20 - Heroic Durability
110 - Paladin 11 Base
30 - Fighter 3 Base
84 - CON Bonus
16 - Toughness
50 - Paladin Toughness 4
10 - Draconic Vitality
---------------
320 Hit Points


Saves:
---------------
33 / 25 / 23 - With Greater Heroism & +4 Resistance Item
---------------


To Hit:
---------------
14 - BAB
9 - STR
5 - Weapon
4 - Greater Heroism
1 - Weapon Focus
1 - Haste
1 - Rage Potion
3 - Divine Favor
4 - Paladin Attack Boost 3
---------------
42 To-Hit / 37 w/ Power Attack


Damage:
---------------
9 - Str
5 - Weapon
1 - Rage Potion
3 - Divine Favor
---------------
18 / 23 w/ Power Attack


Enhancements:
---------------
Fighter:
Armor Mastery 1
Strength 1
Critical Accuracy 1
Item Defense 1
Tower Shield Mastery 1

Paladin:
Attack Boost 3
Bulwark of Good 2
Resistance of Good 2
Extra Lay on Hands 2
Charisma 2
Energy of the Templar 1
Toughness 4

Human:
Adaptability 1: CON
Adaptability 2: STR
---------------

[juniorpfactors]

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning.....dump this for Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


extra turning....i would never take it... for a paly.....I would take toughness as many times as possible

and in response for going fighter 3.....going forward fighter 4 at lvl 15 another feat(toughness#3)....at 16 probably fighter again...paly after 11 is very soft..unless they add alot more to the paly

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

@juniorpfactors - I would go as far as to recommend Level 15-19 all be Fighter, leaving only Level 20 as the question mark. Unless some DRASTIC changes are made to high-level Paladins (and Holy Sword is nowhere near enough), there are virutally no reasons to go beyond Paladin 11. I would say Pal 11 / Fighter 8 as the goal for Level 19, leaving a few options for Level 20.... I don't think Fighter 9 adds much for Enhancements, nor does Paladin 12... but maybe a single Rogue or Sorc splach might be in order for the Skill Points or the SP

[llevenbaxx]

I also just started a paladin 2 handed weapon character. I started with a 16 str but will likily be taking 4-6 levels of fighter to gain more feats and str. You have to remember, one undeniable fact of 2 handed fighting is that you will draw alot of aggro.

At low levels this will be a good thing as you can just kill everything all the faster. At later levels, without having a 40+ str you will not be killing things as lickidy split as WW but you will still be drawing alot of aggro. This is what lead me to lower str and bump up my con and will also be getting the WF con bonus.

With little room to get some of the tactics or other melee forms of CC you will have to do something to handle all the aggro. Just some food for thought.

[nbhs275]

str 18
dex 10
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 14


Don't take the two handed fighting feats, they take up too many of your limited feats. Go Power attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Toughness, Improved Crit. And that extra human feat? Either get khopesh if you got em, because face it, you'll be using a shield more then you think, OR something like Skill forcus: UMD for the added bonus of high umd.

[bandyman1]

str 18
dex 10
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 14


Don't take the two handed fighting feats, they take up too many of your limited feats. Go Power attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Toughness, Improved Crit. And that extra human feat? Either get khopesh if you got em, because face it, you'll be using a shield more then you think, OR something like Skill forcus: UMD for the added bonus of high umd.

Solid advice.

[Blazer]

str 18
dex 10
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 14

Don't take the two handed fighting feats, they take up too many of your limited feats. Go Power attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Toughness, Improved Crit. And that extra human feat? Either get khopesh if you got em, because face it, you'll be using a shield more then you think, OR something like Skill forcus: UMD for the added bonus of high umd.


Solid advice.

I guess I'm a bit confused how this can be considered solid advice since the OP specifically stated he is building his paladin to be a two-handed weapon user. The advice given says to not bother with the THF feats, but instead actually spend a feat on an exotic 1-hander. A max STR paladin built for glancing blows (read: all THF feats) is actually a very potent melee character.

[bandyman1]

I guess I'm a bit confused how this can be considered solid advice since the OP specifically stated he is building his paladin to be a two-handed weapon user. The advice given says to not bother with the THF feats, but instead actually spend a feat on an exotic 1-hander. A max STR paladin built for glancing blows (read: all THF feats) is actually a very potent melee character.

Cleave and Great Cleave > than THF, ITHF, and GTHF - on this build ( psst. He doesn't have a barbarian's Str. ). The khopesh is a good feat choice for when he opts to go sword and board for the AC boost.

[binnsr]

Cleave and Great Cleave > than THF, ITHF, and GTHF - on this build ( psst. He doesn't have a barbarian's Str. ). The khopesh is a good feat choice for when he opts to go sword and board for the AC boost.

With the limited number of feats that a pure paladin gets, I would shy away from exotic weapons proficiencies. I would take toughness, sf: UMD, quick draw, or some other feat in place of that -- something that he'll use all of the time, not just when he deviates from the purpose of this build..

[Blazer]

Cleave and Great Cleave > than THF, ITHF, and GTHF - on this build ( psst. He doesn't have a barbarian's Str. ). The khopesh is a good feat choice for when he opts to go sword and board for the AC boost.

Psst, I realize he doesn't have barbarian STR - he's a paladin. No reason to be condescending.

With Rage and a +3 from Divine Favor he can achieve a rather strong damage output via the THF chain. Yes, his glancing blows won't be in the 30s or more a la Shade/Maldini, but they'll be pretty good. The OP stated he wants to go THF and use falchions. Why do you want to change him from this course of action and have him pick up clicky-type attacks and an exotic weapon proficiency?

[bandyman1]

Psst, I realize he doesn't have barbarian STR - he's a paladin. No reason to be condescending.

With Rage and a +3 from Divine Favor he can achieve a rather strong damage output via the THF chain. Yes, his glancing blows won't be in the 30s or more a la Shade/Maldini, but they'll be pretty good. The OP stated he wants to go THF and use falchions. Why do you want to change him from this course of action and have him pick up clicky-type attacks and an exotic weapon proficiency?

I explained the khopesh feat. It he doesn't want to take it fine. I didn't say he had to take anything. I said the post I quoted was solid advice. I stand by that. Weather or not he decides to take it is up to him.

Regardless of his chosen style, there will be times when it's more advantageous to go sword and board.

Spalsh damage for this build will be better if he takes Cleave and Great Cleave over the THF line.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I explained the khopesh feat. It he doesn't want to take it fine. I didn't say he had to take anything. I said the post I quoted was solid advice. I stand by that. Weather or not he decides to take it is up to him.

Regardless of his chosen style, there will be times when it's more advantageous to go sword and board.

Spalsh damage for this build will be better if he takes Cleave and Great Cleave over the THF line.

How is this possible?
Can you please provide more information.

The 2-Handed Feats allow for Splash damage on 2 of the 4 swings per attack round (I think... but I could be wrong)... whereas Cleave and Great Cleave give 2 clickie-type attacks that cannot be used on each Attack Set... I don't know the exact timing, but I would assume every 3rd Attack Sequence... so out of 6 Attack Chains, you have 2 Cleave & 2 Great Cleave attacks vs. 12 Glancing Blows attacks... I have a hard time believeing the Cleave/Great Cleave damage would make up the 3x fewer attack opportunities.

Additionally, if the purpose of going 2-Handed for this build is to maintain Aggro, then wouldn't the more constant Glancing Blows damage output grab and hold that Aggor better than less-frequent but more-damaging Cleave/Great Cleave? I don't know myself, that's why I am asking for more details in this case.

In reality PA --> Cleave --> Great Cleave is the same number of feats as 2HF --> I2HF --> G2HF. It only saves a feat if the 2HF chain is taken with PA as well... for a savings of 1 Feat. Paladin 14 (non-human) gets 5 Feats. 1 is Toughness, pretty much a given. Then either PA/THF/ITHF/IC or THF/ITHF/GTHF/IC, or PA/Cleave/Great Cleave/IC. Is there really that much of a difference?

[bandyman1]

How is this possible?
Can you please provide more information.

The 2-Handed Feats allow for Splash damage on 2 of the 4 swings per attack round (I think... but I could be wrong)... whereas Cleave and Great Cleave give 2 clickie-type attacks that cannot be used on each Attack Set... I don't know the exact timing, but I would assume every 3rd Attack Sequence... so out of 6 Attack Chains, you have 2 Cleave & 2 Great Cleave attacks vs. 12 Glancing Blows attacks... I have a hard time believeing the Cleave/Great Cleave damage would make up the 3x fewer attack opportunities.

Additionally, if the purpose of going 2-Handed for this build is to maintain Aggro, then wouldn't the more constant Glancing Blows damage output grab and hold that Aggor better than less-frequent but more-damaging Cleave/Great Cleave? I don't know myself, that's why I am asking for more details in this case.

In reality PA --> Cleave --> Great Cleave is the same number of feats as 2HF --> I2HF --> G2HF. It only saves a feat if the 2HF chain is taken with PA as well... for a savings of 1 Feat. Paladin 14 (non-human) gets 5 Feats. 1 is Toughness, pretty much a given. Then either PA/THF/ITHF/IC or THF/ITHF/GTHF/IC, or PA/Cleave/Great Cleave/IC. Is there really that much of a difference?

Because this build isn't doing a barbarian's glancing blow damage. Probibly about 20 maximum. Cleave and greatcleave are both a full damage attack to every opponet in range. When was the last time you saw a 14th lvl 2-handed weapon user with power att. do less than 40 damage on a swing? Add in greatcleave and that already beats 2 full attack sequences with GTHFing.

Considering base weapon damage, 28 Str on a 2-hander, + 10 PA, + whatever damage mods the weapon has, that's going to equate to more splash damage.

You do raise a good point with aggro, but as long he remembers to spam them both, I think his chances of holding aggro are just as good, maybe better.

[llevenbaxx]

Cleave and Great Cleave > than THF, ITHF, and GTHF - on this build ( psst. He doesn't have a barbarian's Str. ). The khopesh is a good feat choice for when he opts to go sword and board for the AC boost.

Would it be crazy to take an 8/6 paly/ftr split? You could, feat wise, get the cleaves, Power attack, progression all the way to Greater 2-hand fighting, one toughness and still be able to pick up imp crit at 9th.

Not to mention you could still get paly's cha +2 enhancement, ftr str +2 enhancement and(in my case) WF con +2 enhancement. Bad idea?

[juniorpfactors]

crzy no...but a good idea no...11 paly 30 pt resists and much more powerful LOH

[Ezekiah]

one point: this is fresh off the boat on a new server. 28 point build only - and no drow.

which prevents several of the builds posted from being useful.

I've seen the sword/board and khopesh builds many times. I have no khopshes available, though, would rather not build for the most in-demand weapon out there.

I could, of course, with the 2/3 level fighter splash, go THF -and- still get cleave/greatcleave. I strongly dislike the intimidate mechanic, and so I am not interested in playing a sword and board intimitank.

the group does have a barbarian too though, so some differentiation wouldn't be terrible... If i'm not going 2hander myself I'll never get agro off him, though.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Just shave off a little Dex and Cha... 12 starting Cha is fine.

Also, a 7/7 Split can be Very Interesting... Fighter STR 2, Armor Mastery 2, with BoG 2 & RoG 2 & Paladin Cha 2... Can make for one helluva build. Check out my "Basic Paladin Build Guide v1.0" Post in the Paladin Forums (or the link in my Sig).... look in post #3 a few pages down for the "Vindicator" build... 7/7 split w/ 2-Handed Fighting. One heckuva DPS machine template.