Observations on Permadeath Play with the Sublime.

[Sydril]

My observations of permadeath gameplay.

With the recent server merge and the transition from Xoriat to Thelanis I discovered that the largest permadeath guild in DDO was now on my home server. With an 8th character spot and a deep desire to find a profound new level of fun and challenge I decided to give it a go.

The first thing I noticed immediately was the terror and excitement I felt in quests that were in the past mundane and merely seen as stepping stones on the road to 14. The fear instilled by a kobold shaman on a hard or elite quest, for example, is nearly palpable.

The second thing I noticed was that what you find actually matters. With no character pimping that masterwork longsword is your best friend and you really appreciate the boxes you smash for ransack because that usually going right to your potion fund.

A third thing I noticed is how much this style of play makes the party members really communicate and work together to overcome greater and overwhelming odds. The excitement you feel at drawing an ambush is great. The style of gameplay really makes you think about your actions and what effects they will have. One poorly considered attack and you could cause not only your own death but the deaths of other party members.

Another thing is the kind of accomplishment you feel on leveling your character. You survived. My first permadeath character, a pure 32 point elven rogue has scratched and clawed his way to level 4 and I wonder where his fate will lead. It definitely makes me think of the fun of my old PnP days.

Finally, there is a transience and substance to the game when played like this. I saw a level 3 wizard get obliterated by a raging ogre and I ran my ass off. A named spider in part one of Waterworks incapacitated two party members and they were left bleeding to death (ok only one was left bleeding the other was warforged) while the survivors had to run for high ground. Mundane events and passing moments become profound and epic and the game takes on a whole new level of enjoyment.

Its not for everyone, and you have to be willing to accept that your character may die and you'll have to delete him (or at least stop playing him in the permadeath groups) but I for one think I'll have a hard time going back to the old grind.

[loki523]

Yeah a couple of us in Legion were talking about trying permadeath for fun. Then we started thinking about it rationally lol. Personally, I would never step foot in any quest that had a beholder or mindflayer, for instance. Probably wouldn't do any raids either. All it takes is a single "1" and it's curtains...

[Sydril]

I hear ya loki. I was thinking the same thing myself. but I think with a high level group with a cleric and a ressing rogue I'd be willing to give some of those quests a try. Check out the link in the sig, theres some basic guild rules there. if you actually manage to get a character to a higher level you do have a *little* (and I mean *little*) breathing room for death. Its really a lot more like a pnp feel.

[Uamhas]

I strongly urge ANYone to try permadeath, at least once.
Be aware, however, that if you're anything like me, it will hurt when your character dies... but you will remember what made you love the game in the first place.
R.I.P my little baby pally. I loved her perhaps more than I should have.

[smodge13]

permadeath is great to try at least once, i did ages ago, funny enough im starting to get bored again and debating whether or not to give permadeath/roleplaying a shot.

[Haras]

Sydril! You're alive I thought you died in the server merger crash.

But seriously I have tried permadeath in other games, like ADOM, Castlevania, Frogger, Pitfall and found that my games didn't last that long.

But really Seriously I have a character I believe is ready for the permadeath fun. I will be getting in touch with the Sublime guild very soon, if they will accept me.

[Scarsgaard]

I must admit.. it does sound intruiging...

[Jundak]

*nods in agreement with Scars*

I've been kicking around the thought of doing it for awhile, now. I'm just unsure as to what sort of build I'd go for, though...it would have to be something that could survive mindflayers and beholders, that's for sure. Or at least a build that could help others survive them. I don't think I could stand avoiding a dungeon because "it might be too dangerous"...because THAT doesn't smack of the PnP sessions that I used to be involved in.

Okay...giving it some more thought, now...

[Vua]

*nods in agreement with Scars*

I've been kicking around the thought of doing it for awhile, now. I'm just unsure as to what sort of build I'd go for, though...it would have to be something that could survive mindflayers and beholders, that's for sure. Or at least a build that could help others survive them. I don't think I could stand avoiding a dungeon because "it might be too dangerous"...because THAT doesn't smack of the PnP sessions that I used to be involved in.

Okay...giving it some more thought, now...

WF Pally/Rogue.

[Uamhas]

*nods in agreement with Scars*

I've been kicking around the thought of doing it for awhile, now. I'm just unsure as to what sort of build I'd go for, though...it would have to be something that could survive mindflayers and beholders, that's for sure. Or at least a build that could help others survive them. I don't think I could stand avoiding a dungeon because "it might be too dangerous"...because THAT doesn't smack of the PnP sessions that I used to be involved in.

Okay...giving it some more thought, now...

No, man... you're approaching it alll wrong. Build your character with an eye to how they survive NOW! You may not live long enough to even smell a beholder, let alone see one. Evolution will weed out the ones that don't work for you. That, and the blade trap in Garrison's.

[ErgonomicCat]

I'm giving PD a try as well. My luck hasn't been quite as good, as I ran a quest I'd never done, and pretty much just wallowed behind as my team mates cleared everything out.

But I'm intrigued....

[teddok]

Ive been contlating it as well but i dont know sonds scary.

[Jundak]

No, man... you're approaching it alll wrong. Build your character with an eye to how they survive NOW! You may not live long enough to even smell a beholder, let alone see one. Evolution will weed out the ones that don't work for you. That, and the blade trap in Garrison's.

I'm testing a build right now, that I'm thinking about taking through Permadeath, actually. Now, normally I twink the characters out and solo the build through level 4 or 5, before joining a group to hit the more difficult content...

This time there is no twinkage. I'm still soloing the build as far as I can until he dies...once he/she is rerolled with whatever adjustments that I believe are required, I'll take this build into a Permadeath venue.

So you see? I am thinking about survivability NOW. But I also plan for my first character to meet a beholder, shake its eyestalk, drive my sword through its center eye...then walk away with a trophy. :D

[Sydril]

For me i just chose a character that I knew I would really enjoy playing. If you do try PD I suggest rolling a character you know you will like and be attached to. It gives you a feat you cannot get in game called "sensibility" It allows you to really think about what situations you end up in because you really don't want to get killed. Of course for some people that character may actually be an immunity laden powerhouse like a warforged paladin or something. I wouldn't bother so much planning out and testing a build out for PD. Just play.

[~Zornochio]

I create builds for some of my characters to about level 5, sometimes higher but I usually change it several times before they get to 5 and just wing it after that.

I don't think builds really matter much in PD (or in normal play for that matter).

[Memnir]

Honestly - right now I'm starved for something that will put the pazazz back into playing. I've thought a lot about trying Permadeath, as it seems like a huge challange - even more so than speed-running everything in sight or short-manning every raid in existance.

Just not sure if I have the guts to give it a go, though. It's a ballsy way to play - and I admire those who do so greatly.

[lostinjapan]

Well I took the plunge. Created my character, ran the solo quests.

Problem is there is NEVER anyone in The Sublime or The Phoenix Society online when I check. The following is from The Sublime's website:


What do I do to join?
Just roll up a new character on Thelanis and look for 'Sublime' guild members online. Send a tell letting them know you're interested in joining the guild and we'll get you in. If there are no Sublime members online, look for 'The Phoenix Society' members (our non-permadeath guild). They may be able to get you in if they are not busy.

So what do I do now?

[Sydril]

when were you on? I was on most of the day yesterday and there were between 2 and 14 people online at any given time. The guild is fairly active, its shouldnt be a problem getting you in. Whats your character's name? I'll have someone extend an invite.

[5footStep]

Permadeath ROCKs! It totally saved me from burnout on DDO and was a nice fresh adrenaline rush. I wish I had more time to do it now, but it is one of my favorite playstyles.. one thing I truely enjoy is the people who play it are into taking risks and pushing the envelope. Nothing like putting it ALL on the line and running an overpowered quest at an elite setting with a possibly underpowered group build and SURVIVING.. with NOOB gear.

as far as builds.. DUDE.. um.. just try and survive the Ogres and lightning bolt throwing Kobolds on elite in the harbor first. Next in order.. try surviving Arcane skellies ... or... the hobgoblin clerics on elite in tangleroot that cast Slay living.

[5footStep]

..

This time there is no twinkage. I'm still soloing the build as far as I can until he dies...once he/she is rerolled with whatever adjustments that I believe are required, I'll take this build into a Permadeath venue.


bah.. the fun in permadeath aint how you solo, baby. Its the teamwork and knowing all 5 or 6 of you are soiling your armor as the warforged tanks is kneeling over your incap bodies and trying to roll high enough to utilize a healing kit.

My advice... put skill points into areas you aren't used to putting them.. no matter what the build.. ie.. Move silently.. Heal.. Repair.. feats towards absorbing blows an surviving.. ooo and DIPLOMACY.. Diplomacy is your friend... its saved my bacon more times than I can count... or if you are truely brave.. make a tank that is all about intimidation.. suck the mobs to you and pray you and your pals take em down quick enough so that you survive.

[Jundak]

Hehe...soloing is the anti-socialist in me coming out. Yah know...just one of those times where I want to play DDO, but I don't want to deal with anyone else via VC or otherwise. Those are the times I like to test build ideas and concepts. I see where everyone is coming from, though...I'll create a character to do this with, then check for the Sublime.

Gawd...I hope I reign in my zerging tendencies. :(

[BUpcott]

Hehe...soloing is the anti-socialist in me coming out. Yah know...just one of those times where I want to play DDO, but I don't want to deal with anyone else via VC or otherwise. Those are the times I like to test build ideas and concepts. I see where everyone is coming from, though...I'll create a character to do this with, then check for the Sublime.

Gawd...I hope I reign in my zerging tendencies. :(

Then stop sending me tells!!!

(Tell) Jundak tells you, 'Come play with me. I am lonely and want to hold you.'

[lostinjapan]

when were you on? I was on most of the day yesterday and there were between 2 and 14 people online at any given time. The guild is fairly active, its shouldnt be a problem getting you in. Whats your character's name? I'll have someone extend an invite.

<Points to her username>

I'm in Japan, so my hours are off from a lot of US players. One of your aussie players logged on before I went to bed and extended me an invite. Thank you kevlar!

Looking forward to the next time. :D

[Uamhas]

Then stop sending me tells!!!

(Tell) Jundak tells you, 'Come play with me. I am lonely and want to hold you.'

Jammie, you were supposed to make our new neighbors feel at home... but... um.... oh my.
Note to self: Bring lots of duct tape when tagging after Erda.

[binnsr]

or if you are truely brave.. make a tank that is all about intimidation.. suck the mobs to you and pray you and your pals take em down quick enough so that you survive.

now that sounds like fun.. i might have to think about that ..

[Jundak]

Then stop sending me tells!!!

(Tell) Jundak tells you, 'Come play with me. I am lonely and want to hold you.'

Huh!? You been stealing from your Mom's liquor cabinet again, Cambel? :D

Well, I created a spur-of-the-moment character for Permadeath Play this morning, since I'm not working. Have the flu...*cough cough*...or something equally terrifying to get a day off work...*sniffle sniffle*...

I saw only one guy from Sublime on, and he logged off pretty quick, so I'm not sure how long I'll last. Soloing through 2nd level, now...with a freaking Masterwork light mace and a chain shirt. I have an Iron Companion buddy to help me through the worst of the fights, though. *crosses fingers*

[Wotansdottir]

Jammie, you were supposed to make our new neighbors feel at home... but... um.... oh my.
Note to self: Bring lots of duct tape when tagging after Erda.

RAWR!!! I heard you say it! I heard you say DUCT TAPE!! But to quote sweet but Smells like Cheese Sadira, "I prefer steel bands..." ROFL!!!

[VonBek]

I have an Iron Companion buddy to help me through the worst of the fights, though. *crosses fingers*

Avoid assembling him up on a ledge. <*sigh*>

[Uamhas]

RAWR!!! I heard you say it! I heard you say DUCT TAPE!! But to quote sweet but Smells like Cheese Sadira, "I prefer steel bands..." ROFL!!!

*shifty eyes*

[Jundak]

Avoid assembling him up on a ledge. <*sigh*>

Hehe. I've thought that, already. But I have assembled him in a wall...not so fun. :p

I feel like such a n00b, again. I've already hit lvl 3, but I've left my doggie to attack my PD teammates after one quest, and then I invited a Sublime guildie into the party while he was in the middle of a fight. Two big no-no's in the space of two hours. Ugh. :(

[5footStep]

Hehe. I've thought that, already. But I have assembled him in a wall...not so fun. :p

I feel like such a n00b, again. I've already hit lvl 3, but I've left my doggie to attack my PD teammates after one quest, and then I invited a Sublime guildie into the party while he was in the middle of a fight. Two big no-no's in the space of two hours. Ugh. :(

oh I so wish I had Musicman's lyrics to Like a Noob. OMG.. *pounds head*

[DDO_Ironwolf]

Guild Ironwolf started a permadeath group within the guild and it is pretty intense.

First off no character xfers of plat or Items .

No buying from venders or Auction House.

You must use only what you find in quests and what others trade to you during the quests .

You must do all lvl 1 quests before going to lvl 2 and so on.

No rez shrines only heal shrines and a cleric rez.

Must find potions but clerics can buy wands. Pretty harsh rules but alot of fun.

What was really neat was the fact that collectibles are worth alot now. And the excitement when someone finds a +1 mace of rightousness is neat.

In my opinion this method of play brings the real feel of dnd. enjoy!

[~Zornochio]

Permadeath in DDO seems to be doing quite well now. I remember a time not too long ago that any thread with permadeath in the title turned into an 8 page argument :)

[Hvymetal]

Created a character on Thelanis, and joined Sublime and ran a few quests with them. Must honestly say it is a totally different experience. You will not be running in optimal parties, you will not be taking the easy way through quests.

My poor WF Rogue/Ranger, Ignot almost bought the farm a few times, hell a blown trap on goodblades elite almost killed me, left me w/ 10 HP. Ended up being the door blocker and almost killed a few times by ogres, luckily was saved by some timely heals from my teammates. Unfortunatly we had one loss on sewer rescue (Hard I believe).

Well level 3 currently and still kicking so we will see. But yea any of you been considering this (like I was for a loooong time) I would suggest giving it a try it just might add some spice back into your gaming experience.

[Wxob]

Nice thread. I found the guild by searching guild forum sticky on top. I love the experience I just started in DDO an Thanis and I can't see any other way of playing.. I came over from EQ and this is by far more intence then anything I had experienced in EQ... (with exception to when EQ first started back in 1999). I guess I just like being a newbie rather then a level 80 player with my 2.0 on faction quest...

[sago]

I am new to DDO, I have noticed that some perma players seem to be a tight nit group with in thier guilds(6-10). They except all players new and old (thier favorite being new) and help them build up a character ( 3-6 lvl ) then put them in deadly situations on purpose so they can loot your dead corpse. Also those in the tight group (we will call them the A crowd CHEAT like no other)I perma play and have seen officers in my guild equipped with gear they could not have gotten without CHEATING. You and I know use what you loot only and one transfered item from a former toon that has died. I have seen toons from the A crowd at 3rd Level with top end gear somrthing that makes their strength 21 ,come on man ! We know your cheating,we know your friends cheat and I know you sucker players in to futher your own toons. They do the work with you and soon you will get twice the reward. Anyone who plays perma and your not a officer in your guild be very wary.

[Bunker]

I am new to DDO, I have noticed that some perma players seem to be a tight nit group with in thier guilds(6-10). They except all players new and old (thier favorite being new) and help them build up a character ( 3-6 lvl ) then put them in deadly situations on purpose so they can loot your dead corpse. Also those in the tight group (we will call them the A crowd CHEAT like no other)I perma play and have seen officers in my guild equipped with gear they could not have gotten without CHEATING. You and I know use what you loot only and one transfered item from a former toon that has died. I have seen toons from the A crowd at 3rd Level with top end gear somrthing that makes their strength 21 ,come on man ! We know your cheating,we know your friends cheat and I know you sucker players in to futher your own toons. They do the work with you and soon you will get twice the reward. Anyone who plays perma and your not a officer in your guild be very wary.

1. You say you are new to DDO, so you think it is wise to roll up on the server and flame perma players.
2. You say you have witnessed shady perma players in times past, so WE should be wary of any perma players on our server?

This reminds me of a story of a guy who got burned bad buy his GF, and now he is just wary of all women in general. Did you have a bad experience in permaland? If you are new, let me throw you a coin, it is better to support your server early on, then to discard it.

My 2 cp

P.S. Lets here it for bringing back a really old post. /cheers to forum ressurection

[LawstCawz]

Sold. I'll be rolling up an intimitank for pd. I'll toss you some change for the rez scroll.

[Uamhas]

That has not been my experience. Hope you find happier times in DDOland.
I am new to DDO, I have noticed that some perma players seem to be a tight nit group with in thier guilds(6-10). They except all players new and old (thier favorite being new) and help them build up a character ( 3-6 lvl ) then put them in deadly situations on purpose so they can loot your dead corpse. Also those in the tight group (we will call them the A crowd CHEAT like no other)I perma play and have seen officers in my guild equipped with gear they could not have gotten without CHEATING. You and I know use what you loot only and one transfered item from a former toon that has died. I have seen toons from the A crowd at 3rd Level with top end gear somrthing that makes their strength 21 ,come on man ! We know your cheating,we know your friends cheat and I know you sucker players in to futher your own toons. They do the work with you and soon you will get twice the reward. Anyone who plays perma and your not a officer in your guild be very wary.

[LawstCawz]

That has not been my experience. Hope you find happier times in DDOland.

I've never been able to loot a dead corpse... and trust me, I tried. :(

[~Zornochio]

I am new to DDO, I have noticed that some perma players seem to be a tight nit group with in thier guilds(6-10). They except all players new and old (thier favorite being new) and help them build up a character ( 3-6 lvl ) then put them in deadly situations on purpose so they can loot your dead corpse. Also those in the tight group (we will call them the A crowd CHEAT like no other)I perma play and have seen officers in my guild equipped with gear they could not have gotten without CHEATING. You and I know use what you loot only and one transfered item from a former toon that has died. I have seen toons from the A crowd at 3rd Level with top end gear somrthing that makes their strength 21 ,come on man ! We know your cheating,we know your friends cheat and I know you sucker players in to futher your own toons. They do the work with you and soon you will get twice the reward. Anyone who plays perma and your not a officer in your guild be very wary.



Did you write a letter to DDOCast a few weeks ago? :D

[Citymorg]

I am new to DDO, I have noticed that some perma players seem to be a tight nit group with in thier guilds(6-10). They except all players new and old (thier favorite being new) and help them build up a character ( 3-6 lvl ) then put them in deadly situations on purpose so they can loot your dead corpse. Also those in the tight group (we will call them the A crowd CHEAT like no other)I perma play and have seen officers in my guild equipped with gear they could not have gotten without CHEATING. You and I know use what you loot only and one transfered item from a former toon that has died. I have seen toons from the A crowd at 3rd Level with top end gear somrthing that makes their strength 21 ,come on man ! We know your cheating,we know your friends cheat and I know you sucker players in to futher your own toons. They do the work with you and soon you will get twice the reward. Anyone who plays perma and your not a officer in your guild be very wary.

I have organized a permadeath guild on Khyber. It was my first permadeath experience. I believe it has been a success. We get 1-2 groups going on a regular basis. I cannot disagree with this post more. The best things I have been able to loot of a corpse have been on the order of +3 skill items, a ring of rage and several thousand GOLD pieces (~8kgp). This is hardly the type of stuff worth screwing new players over. If anyone in the guild did that for any length of time, we would stop getting new members. (Which we get about 2-3 per week) Yes, there is a certain amount of honor system that is necessary for Permadeath. If you assuming people are cheating, then there is no way to play Permadeath at all. In all honesty, it is usually obvious if someone is cheating. They are simply too good, heal too much, and have too many things. I am sorry you may have had a bad experience, but I would called perception and miscommunication that what actually takes place, at least in my PD guild.

[Deg]

Having just recently come back to the game after a long absence I am finding this thread very appealing. Perma-Death may be exactly what I am looking for.

For those of you in a perma-death guild how is the play in general? Do people seem to be working well together?

Does the fact me not having a working mic deter players in a perma-death guild from play with me?

Are there a lot of issues with players breaking the rules and ruining others experience?

Playing in a EST timezone should I be able to find a regular guild group?

Just a few questions that came to mind while reading this thread.

[VonBek]

Playing in a EST timezone should I be able to find a regular guild group?

Just a few questions that came to mind while reading this thread.

The DDOCast (http://www.ddocast.com/)has has segments by Lessah covering Permadeath. You can download the *.MP3's to any PC for listening. I think she started the PD segments in the 2008 shows.

[Gandalfs_Ghost]

Having just recently come back to the game after a long absence I am finding this thread very appealing. Perma-Death may be exactly what I am looking for.

For those of you in a perma-death guild how is the play in general? Do people seem to be working well together?

Does the fact me not having a working mic deter players in a perma-death guild from play with me?

Are there a lot of issues with players breaking the rules and ruining others experience?

Playing in a EST timezone should I be able to find a regular guild group?

Just a few questions that came to mind while reading this thread.

I returned to ddo after about a 6 month break and decided to give permadeath a go, joined the sublime, and am enjoying it very much so far.
People work well together or they die badly together, simple as that. If you dont want to be a team player dont bother, success depends on everyone, however death is also often pretty sudden and unexpected, that trap you forgot about, that jump you miss, etc.
I have not experienced any issues with rule breakers, you are 'on your honor' for many things (obeying rules about twinking or using brokers/AH for ex) but if you cheat in pdeath that defeats the whole purpose.
Getting excited about pulling a +2 weapon is fun, collectibles become important, money is tight, etc. So success in pdeath is quite rewarding and death is harsh.
And I love it.
Not having a mic is not a problem, but you have to have voice on to hear whats being said in chat.
I am in EST and play almost every evening for an hour or 3, we even have on guy in Oz and he gets groups.
If you want to try it just make a new character and run the wavecrest quests, then look for a member of The Sublime Permadeath Guild in the guild list and ask for an invite.
We have a website but it is temporarily experiencing difficulties.

Gederix - Wizard4
Gedrel - Ranger5Rogue2
Gedrael - Paladin4

[Deg]

I returned to ddo after about a 6 month break and decided to give permadeath a go, joined the sublime, and am enjoying it very much so far.
People work well together or they die badly together, simple as that. If you dont want to be a team player dont bother, success depends on everyone, however death is also often pretty sudden and unexpected, that trap you forgot about, that jump you miss, etc.
I have not experienced any issues with rule breakers, you are 'on your honor' for many things (obeying rules about twinking or using brokers/AH for ex) but if you cheat in pdeath that defeats the whole purpose.
Getting excited about pulling a +2 weapon is fun, collectibles become important, money is tight, etc. So success in pdeath is quite rewarding and death is harsh.
And I love it.
Not having a mic is not a problem, but you have to have voice on to hear whats being said in chat.
I am in EST and play almost every evening for an hour or 3, we even have on guy in Oz and he gets groups.
If you want to try it just make a new character and run the wavecrest quests, then look for a member of The Sublime Permadeath Guild in the guild list and ask for an invite.
We have a website but it is temporarily experiencing difficulties.

Gederix - Wizard4
Gedrel - Ranger5Rogue2
Gedrael - Paladin4


VonBek and Gedrel thanks for your responses. I really enjoyed listening to the PODcasts on PD, that combined with your post pretty much decided me on giving PD a shot.

This afternoon I rolled up a Paladin named Deg Vaemon and met with Narc for a guild invite and a guild quest. I think I am really going to enjoy my play in Sublime

[Renegade66]

I agree with Uma that you really have to try it once. I was a skeptic but ended up loving it. Very exciting when you pull your first uberloot. For example, Strings pulled a +6 CHA ring in the Orchard. It really helps if you can group with the same core players, so that you develop safe tactics. Of course you need to know what to stay clear of as well. I'm not exactly sure why we stopped playing PD. I guess we kind of feel like we've beaten it, so not the same challenge. Anyway, really weird resurrection post, but great advertisement for the great guys and gals over in Sublime.

[Lizardgrad89]

I think PD needs it's own server.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to kick them off the current servers, but I think it would be good if we had one with no AH, no mail system, auto-deleted the toon on death, and maybe showed all the equipped items for each toon (Don't know how that would work, exactly, but would sure cut down on cheating.).

I might be interested in PD, but need another toon slot (hey Devs hint hint). Or a PD server as then there would be plenty of toon slots available.

[roadkill525]

lol talkin bout perma death... monday we played a PNP session,all chars lvl 3 I was given the half orc barbarian to play. 2 rounds into the fight kill the guy infront of me, time for cleave... I fumbled, DM tells me to reroll, a 3, DM rolles a directional die and I hit the druid standing next to me... druid down to 5hp. round 5 of the fight, I kill the guy infront of me, time for cleave again... I fumbled again, DM tells me to reroll again... another 1... DM tells me to roll dammage (greataxe raging power attacking) roll max dammage.... knocks my health to -5, dm asks if I remembered to add the HP for raging figureing I forgot and it would save my life... I said nope I remembered... then he started laughing. I had 1 shotted my own char

[Lessah]

:D
To VONBEK of the Sarlona Server... thanks very much for bringing this to me!!!!!

I hope I answered everything, if I didn't let me know, I'll go back over it!

QUOTE:
Deg Vaemon
Ranger in a Dress
Having just recently come back to the game after a long absence I am finding this thread very appealing. Perma-Death may be exactly what I am looking for.

For those of you in a perma-death guild how is the play in general? Do people seem to be working well together?

Yes Yes... and yes!
The play style is like no other! I feel like I'm in a different game than the people who start doom threads. My parties stay together... leveling takes a bit longer... don’t get me wrong, but there's no beating a permie when it comes to making the most of XP.
Four things to remember there:
1.) Break EVERYTHING.. no matter what's in it. Even if you already have the ransack bonus, there could be a free potion of whatever in there... BREAK IT!
2.) KILL EVERYTHING... no matter what it is. The watchword here is... conquest... even when you have conquest, everything dies... you never know who is going to drop a collectible.
3.) No Chest is sacred.... I don't mean your senior prom date.... I mean LOOT
4.) TRAPS... they are there... you know it.. I know it... we ALL KNOW it... even the "no spoiler" guilds have a plan if they don't have a rogue. I know permies who will wait until they DO have a trapsmith so those trap bonus' for XP don't go to waste.


Does the fact me not having a working mic deter players in a perma-death guild from play with me?

LOTS of Permadeathers have NO Mic. Don't stress over it. It is easy to find a group at low levels and the "VETS" will take you under their wing fast.


Are there a lot of issues with players breaking the rules and ruining others experience?

Not to my knowledge, but that negates nothing. Remember, if you cheat, you are cheating YOURSELF. Some players have more strict rules on themselves than others. I don't use the Auction House at all, and I don't loot the dead... EVER... I know... it's crazy and superstitious... BUT... I have not lost a character in over 6 months. I have 6 permies across three servers: levels 3 (Ranger), 3 (Barbarian), 4 (Bard), 5 (pally), 7 (pally), 9 (Cleric). What is the saying in baseball? A player on a streak has to respect the streak? *shrug* (I am not good, BTW, I'm just careful)

Remember, some Guilds have harder core rules than others.. In Extreme Explorers, For Example.. (on Sarlona) your money is your own... you spend it how you want. In Mortal Voyage on Argonnessen, you don't buy ANYTHING that is considered a commodity item... i.e. POTIONS OF RESIST/ CURE/ DISEASE or CURSE REMOVAL... NO WANDS... PERIOD. You get them as a collectable reward, or you get them from a chest..... or you don't get them. Mortal Voyage is VERY Challenging. That is why I say... if you are looking to really test your metal to survive in the game... go to MV... just don't go half-stepping.

For a clear breakdown of all the Permadeath Guilds, I have done one on the DDO Cast. Episodes, 55 & 56.

http://ddocast.com/2008/02/16/episode-55.aspx
http://ddocast.com/2008/02/23/episode-56.aspx



Playing in a EST timezone should I be able to find a regular guild group?

YES! Many of our Perma-players are... business casual... that is.. they play a few of nights a week for maybe 2-4 hours at a time. It is really not that big a deal to a patient player. Levels will come.. just play.



I am so glad you asked these questions! Feel free to post more or PM Me if you have any more!
Cheers!
Lessah

[Lessah]

VonBek and Gedrel thanks for your responses. I really enjoyed listening to the PODcasts on PD, that combined with your post pretty much decided me on giving PD a shot.

This afternoon I rolled up a Paladin named Deg Vaemon and met with Narc for a guild invite and a guild quest. I think I am really going to enjoy my play in Sublime


WOW... I can say.. unashamedly.. (is that even a word...) that NARC is the Best of the Best... When he isn't playing PD, he must be some sort of strategist. He missed his calling, that is for sure. "General Narc," he loves to have his ego stroked BTW, so I hope he sees this! When you are with him... whatever he says.. DO IT! Don't question.. just follow orders!

Cheers... and why haven't I seen you online? (now I will be looking....)
*winks*
Lessah

[Deg]

WOW... I can say.. unashamedly.. (is that even a word...) that NARC is the Best of the Best... When he isn't playing PD, he must be some sort of strategist. He missed his calling, that is for sure. "General Narc," he loves to have his ego stroked BTW, so I hope he sees this! When you are with him... whatever he says.. DO IT! Don't question.. just follow orders!

Cheers... and why haven't I seen you online? (now I will be looking....)
*winks*
Lessah

He knew what to do, when to do it so I just followed his orders promptly and it was a very fun smooth run for my first PD guild quest. Very nice guy and I can see why he is a guild officer.

Right before going into work umm Tempoo or Tempus something like that (Sorry T I have forgotten your name) joined the party so I didn't have a chance to group with him, but he seemed nice as well.

If these are examples of Sublime, I think we will get along famously.

See you in game tonight! (If your on)

[Renegade66]

Good stuff Lessah. I enjoyed the podcasts. The rules you mentioned were what we followed except we didn't loot corpses or use the Auction House. No mention of Legion PD capping their 3 man team in 5 weeks though. :(

Zergers and Powergamers CAN play PD and it's a great change of perspective definitely worth trying out.

[Loafusmax]

PERMADEATH REVITALIZED DDO FOR ME!!! As a fairly serious casual player since release, I played for the first year, got burned out, took a 4 month break, came back hot-n-heavy, and within 5-6 months got burned-out again on the whole PUG and loot grind. I was literally on the brink of cancelling my subscription when thankfully, I jumped headlong into PD with Sublime. Playing permadeath with The Sublime was like of breath of fresh air ... a flashback to 1982 when I was playing Basic D&D as a kid on rainy days in the basement. DDO doesn't have to be all about the loot ... it doesn't have to be about who can score the highest in the kill count and be the supreme juggernaut of the universe. It's about strategy, socializing, having fun, and escaping reality for a brief time. Permadeath adds a "real" element of danger to everything that you do in DDO and like a "Band of Brothers", guild comraderie is forged. Can't say enough good things about permadeath play and The Sublime - great players and great people.

[Lessah]

It took a little digging, but I found the work up I did on the PD guilds I am associated with. Here is is again in case you want to reference it Deg!


REPOST:


Actually Lessah its your segment that got me interested in looking at permadeath in the first place. Really what im looking for is what you stated. People who will not rush through, or leave a dirty dungeon. Its the experience of the dungeon, be it The Low Road, or The Shroud. I dont want to go in mindlessly killing just to see what kind of loot I can get, I want to be able to understand why im going in and doing what im doing

Down and Dirty....


Here is the EXREME JIST of what you need to know:

Aronnessen: Mortal Voyage (pm anyone of them IG for invite of level one char, make sure you read the rules first, these guys are no joke)
- they don't twink, no spoilers, no buying of comodity items like wands and potions. ((makes it real hard sometimes))
- your party opens the quest at the highest level they can, be careful!!!!!
- no AH at all, step away from the auctioneer.... dont even go there.
- theses guys are about as close you will ever get to P&P in DDO IMO.... Read more about them at http://www.mortalvoyage.com/welcome.html


Thelanis: The Sublime ((PM anyone of them IG for an invite at level 1, make sure you read the rules first))
- THese guys are heavy strategy, I recommend this guild for anyone wanting to try out Permadeath for the first time! These guys missed their calling as war/ strategy generals. Ruthless, I love them to death... litterally... I'm a level 9 cleric and I love them to death!! I have been with these guys a while and they are all great!
- comodity items like potions and wands are ok at appropriate level, no AH til at least level 4.
- loot sharing between guild members only/ at the chest
Read more about the Sublime... *Dying since 2006* at http://www.thesublimeguild.net/forums/index.php



Sarlona: Extreme Explorers
**BONUS** I actually met the guild leader in real life! We had lunch together at Dragon Con Last year!
- These guys play mainly as a static grp on Wednesdays or Fridays.
- Very relaxed guild, the only one where you are not "ON THE HOOK" for PD until after you hit level 2 or complete the first 2 parts of WW.
- your money is your money in this guild, spend it as your conscience guides you
- these guys take more crazy chances than any other permies I have ever met, they are alot of fun! They ARE Extreme Explorers!!!
- ((PM them IG, make prior arrangements, PM them on forums or IG for invite at level 1)),
make sure you read the rules at http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=99994&TabID=856487

[Deg]

Thanks for the information.

We will see in a few months if I want to try out a more "hardcore" version of PD. My time with sublime went well tonight, had a blast doing some group/solo quests.

Still alive so it must have been a good night ;-)

[Gandalfs_Ghost]

Welcome to the Sublime Deg!

[~Zornochio]

There are a few newer PD guilds around too..

Khyber DWG permadeath, I don't recall the server..
http://dwg.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=206184&TabID=1740238

and a new guild that started up on Ghalanda recently
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=146981

[Wxob]

PERMADEATH REVITALIZED DDO FOR ME!!! As a fairly serious casual player since release, I played for the first year, got burned out, took a 4 month break, came back hot-n-heavy, and within 5-6 months got burned-out again on the whole PUG and loot grind. I was literally on the brink of cancelling my subscription when thankfully, I jumped headlong into PD with Sublime. Playing permadeath with The Sublime was like of breath of fresh air ... a flashback to 1982 when I was playing Basic D&D as a kid on rainy days in the basement. DDO doesn't have to be all about the loot ... it doesn't have to be about who can score the highest in the kill count and be the supreme juggernaut of the universe. It's about strategy, socializing, having fun, and escaping reality for a brief time. Permadeath adds a "real" element of danger to everything that you do in DDO and like a "Band of Brothers", guild comraderie is forged. Can't say enough good things about permadeath play and The Sublime - great players and great people.

Tick Exactly why I joined the Sublime. Great people here. I was about to give up on DDO after playing a short time. PD changed that for me for sure... Well my new experience is that I hate watching people die! There were 4 deaths this past week in groups I have been and playing as a cleric. Two I could have healed but they were hit fast and I was engauged in something else and two from traps that almost insta-killed them. But it has been great to learn from the best out there... Thanks,

[Pellegro]

WOW... I can say.. unashamedly.. (is that even a word...) that NARC is the Best of the Best...

QFT.

I haven't played my Sublime PD guy in a long time - been enjoying the newer stuff too much - but I did get a chance to get up to lvl 4 or so over there, and lots of that was running with Narc.

That guy's knowledge of the quests is nothing short of amazing.

If you fancy yourself the "do it perfect" type of person and what to see how to "do it perfect", roll up a PD character and play with Narc.

Good times, indeed.