Shade's Max DPS build?

[Xzanthos]

The thread for Shade's max DPS build seems to be missing. I had it bookmarked to reference as I level, but the link is broken now. (The link was http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=73360 )

If anyone had it saved to notepad or if perhaps Shade himself could repost it, it would be greatly appreciated ;)

[spifflove]

You can find in in the google cache. Im sure shade wont be upset if you repost it for him.

[Shade]

Intro:
This build is what I play and also written as a guide for new players. It will work excellent as a first character and should be fun to play. It does not require any hard to get or expensive equipment to work well, but does benefit from much of it. If you have any questions or need help with it feel free to ask in this thread or pm me. I have helped countless players build barbarians similar to this one and all have been very happy with the build.
While I recommend this version for new players, Alternate builds available:
TWF Version (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=133445), Warforged THF Version (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=199947). Half-Orc THF Version. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161)

Updated for Ebberon Unlimited, Frenzied Berserker Update

Dwarf (+2 con, more hp, more rage, axe enhancements, awesome race)
Barbarian Level 20
Alignment: True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral. Minor advantages to each, with chaotic neutral being slightly better for weapon selection (can use weapons of true chaos), or true neutral for the option to use stability items. Either way be sure to go neutral as this will make you immune to unholy damage some monsters deal, and also let you use some of the most powerful endgame equipment without getting a negative level a good aligned character would get. Such as the littany of the dead which provides a nice boost to all stats, attack and damage or the Marilith chain which is one of the only armors in the game that can up your DPS - by granting you a seeker bonus. The downside to neutral is that you won't be able to use weapon of pure good, which are common at lower lvls.. However this build deals enough damage that an extra d6 means very little, and by endgame pure good weapons are not at all useful, so I highly recommend Neutral.

Stats:
(28 point build, add to con for 32 points)
Str 18 (+5 level ups, 23, +6 item, 29, +1 tome, 30. +12 rage, 42, +6 double Frenzy = 48 Standard - Max potential fully geared is over 70 strength for a solid duration, even over 80 is possible for a very short time)
Dex 12 (Get to around 16/17 with +4/5 item like spectral gloves or madstone boots)
Con 17 (34 single Raged as setup - end game +2 tome +rage spell + berserker set + dual madstone = 48)
Int 8 (Minimum, gives 3 skillpoints per lvl which is sufficient, you can use a +2 int tome at lvl7 tho to get 4 per lvl which is nice)
Wis 8 (Highly recommend you eventually seek out a +2 wisdom tome to improve this later on, as willsave is important)
Cha 6 (Not that important)

Optimal End Game Hit points:
240 - Pure Barb lvl20
20 - Heroic Durability
10 - Draconic Vitality (Gianthold Favor)
20 - Mions Legens (Toughness/Heavy Fort Hat)
30 - Greater False Life (Belt)
45 - Greensteel Item
20 - Yugoloth Potion Secret Effect
320 - 42 Con (+2 Tome - includes 140 points from rage + rage potion + yugoloth pot as this is a perma rage build)
= 705 Normal
----- (If Toughness Feat Selected)
23 - Toughness Feat
40 - 4 Toughness Enhancements
= 768 Feated
----- (Situational Buffs)
40 - Madstone Single Con +4 (46)
40 - Madstone Double Con +4 (50)
-----
= 848 Situational
----- (Ultimate maximum gear)
20 - +4 tome and +1 exception con, for 52 con
20 - +2 exceptional con put on a Tower of Despair Ring
----
= 888 Ultra Maximum Geared and Buffed

Feats:
1 - Two Handed Fighting
3 - Power Attack
6 - Cleave
9 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 - Improved critical
15 - Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 - Toughness or Stunning Blow - Depends on your focus. Toughness is not needed for 95% of content.. But for the endgame raids, you will want it if you are gona be the main tank. Stunning Blow is an awesome feat for clearing trash if your a good twitch skilled player, it will really speed up many quests. Altho in the new shavarath or epic areas, saves are quite high so it's tough to get your DC's up enough. Either way it's your call. Personal preference between more offense or defense really, either wll work.

Enhancements:
Enhancements: Type - Name Rank - (Cost)
First off Prereqs for Berserker:
- Damage Boost IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Attack III (6)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker I (4)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker II (2)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker III (2)
Now onto others:
[barbarian] - Sprint Boost I (2) (Get it early on, it rocks)
[barbarian] - Hardy Rage II (3) (Rank 3 generally not worth it)
[barbarian] - Extra Rage I (2) (Not sure this build can afford rank 2/3)
[barbarian] - Extend Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Improved Damage Reduction II (6)
[barbarian] - Constitution I (2)
[barbarian] - Might Capstone (2)
[dwarf] - Dwarven Spell Defense III (6)
[dwarf] - Dwarven Axe Damage II (6)
[dwarf] - Constituion I (2)
73 points spent if I added that right
--- Below depends on lvl18 feat:
Toughness:
[barbarian] - Toughness II (3)
[dwarf] - Toughness II (3)
If Stunning Blow selected:
[dwarf] - Tactics II (6)
[B]What order to take them in?
Always start with sprint boost I, it's important to be very mobile on a barb.
Then build up your rage, get extra rage I asap, and hearty rage/power rage once your around lvl2/3/4 to even out your stats.
By lvl6 be sure to have:
Barbarian Damage Boost II, Barbarian Power Attack I, Barbarian Power Rage I to qualify for Frenzy Berserker I
By lvl12 be sure to have:
Barbarian Damage Boost III, Barbarian Power Attack II, Barbarian Power Rage II to qualify for Frenzy Berserker II
By lvl18 you will need power attack III for FBIII
Mix the other enhancements in as you see fit.

Modify your con/str enhancements as you go to try to keep your stats even, as odd numbers don't benefit you - for example if you had a str tome - modify power rage to keep your end str even, same for con/hearty rage, and if you get really high con like +6 item and +2 tome - you can then drop some extend rage and still end up perma raged and have a few more points for other things like more spell defense. Taking things out of order shouldn't break anything. Experimentation is key to learning the best setup for your character.

Equipment to work towards as you level:
Level1-3:
Just use the starter Ember Greataxe until you can find a +1 or +2 Greataxe. Also try to find a +1/2 Maul, one made with flametouched iron or holy will be very useful in Deleras later on so keep an eye out. Wear whatever rags or hide armors you can find to look cool!
Level4-8:
Weapons to look for:
Carniflex from Deleras tomb. This will be your main weapon as they both deal insane damage and critical often.
Greataxe (+5 ideally early on, you deal such insane dmg and have such massive to hit that later on you won't even have much need for a +5 weapon usually, but some targets will be hard to hit with the +2 carnifex, so be ready to swap a +5 in for that)
Bursting Greataxes (these rule at mid lvl especially if you use them on monsters with vulnerabilitis to those elements, you'll want to find at least +3 versions)
Greater Bane Greataxes (these are amoung the best DPS for the end game lvl14+)
Armor to look for:
Mithral Full plate (Hard to get, but even +3 is as good as +5 Full plate, and while armor class tends not to be a very important stat of a barbarian, it can help you allot if you are low lvl and new to the game still learning how to dodge and earn enough coin for potions)
Alternatively: Heavy Deneith Chain - from the Sentinels series. This armor provides you with lifeshield - an extremely power ability at these levels.

Other stuff:
+4 str gloves from Deleras, lvl7+ - Get these as your 2nd item if you can (first being Carnifex)
Voice of the Master (lvl5) - Nice item to boost XP and Saves (note its a guarenteed drop, so go for the above 2 first if they are on the list)

Important equipment to attain by level 9-12:
Weapons: Continue to improve your bursting and greater bane greataxes. You may still wanna use carnifex for things resistant to your bursting or bane axes.
Armor: AC starts to become rather useless.. So perhaps try to use the Heavy Deneith chain fulltime, or pick it up if you haven't yet.

Mantle of the Worlshaper: Very awesome item for any character. Does the same thing as the Voice of the master, but also provides 5 charges spell absorption which can absorb almost anything! As a frontline character that will be having most of the agro, I highly recommend getting one. Lvl5+ item from the Threnal Ruins (lvl10 questline)
Reavers Ring (fear imunity, very important on a moderate willsave char - an alternate much more expensive option for veterans is the Planar Grid for 11 minuits of GH/Fear immunity)
Fragment of the silver flame (dominate imunity, tho you can juts ask for protection from evil from clerics/wizards)
Proof against poison item (belt/ring usualy works good, however this can also be handled by potions or friendly clerics/wizards if you have any in your groups)
Disease Imunity Item (belt/ring again, mummy rot sucks and there's no other way to prevent it)
Blindness Ward item (any old set will do, ones with +spot are really nice tho)
+4/5 Strength gloves (might wanna replace the deleras ones if possible to keep your dex up)
Heavy Fortification Item (Do black anvil mines, collect some ore, get your necklace at level9, At level11+ replace this with the Minos legens as soon as you can)
Set of potions always: 100 rage, 100 lesser restore, 100 remove curse, couple remove fear, couple protection vs energy. Have these in a quick to access hot key as you'll want to restore your rage and power it back up with a rage pot after each cycle.
Rage, shield, Divine favor,Divine power, haste clickes (these really increase your power during short boss battles, but cant be maintained to long rage length - this should be less of a problem in mod5 with dismiss rage)

By end game level 13-20:
+6 stat items, should have at least Str and Con, ideally wis too. Recommend black dragon helm for dex to free up other slots.
Some raid loot, hard to say you should have it by then, but work towards it. Reaver stuffs pretty easy to get currently. Top items to strive for are Titan Belt, Madstone Boots and the Sword of Shadow.

Weapons: Should be mostly greensteel eventually, but if you have really good greater banes like +5, you can continue to use those too.
First greensteel should ALWAYS be a double pos maul (holy, goodburst). This provides many benefits: A) Raise dead clicky - critical ability of any character. B) Blunt weapon to handle blunt DRs, especially undead. C) Solid all around dps weapon that easy to make and requires no large ingredients.. So your larges to work towards a mineral2 greataxe -should be your 2nd weapon. (Ideally Holy, Acidburst, Acidblast)
For a third: The ultimate weapon for endgame quests (not raids) tends to the a Lightning 2 Greataxe. For max DPS against Orthons and Bearded Devils - very common enemies in module 9. (Ideally holy, shock burst, shock blast)

Armor: Most defensive armor becomes of no real consequence by endgame, so look for offensive stuff. Prime targets are:
Breastplate of Destruction (min lvl: 14, from the Hound of Xoriat Raid)
Dragontouched armor (I used breastplate, but robe, vestment and leathers is fine too, pick whatever style you like) - Ideal upgrades would be healing amp 10%, healing amp 20% and Destruction. Alternative nice abilities include: Resist +5 (eldritch), Crushing wave/Corosive salt guard (tempest) / Earthgrab guard or Leviks 2 piece set (armor +bracer) for tanking (soverign)

Any other improved/greater resist cloaks/rings you can get. Otherwise ask the cleric, you need those buffs to do well. You won't be avoiding much melee damage, so avoid all the spell damage you can with buffs. Later on you can upgrade these to 15 exceptional (stacks with resist) or full 45 pnt greensteel cloaks for better protection, and tie some good guards like earthgrab or enervate into them too.

Skills:
Balance (Max this)
Jump (Get this to about ~15-17 ranks and stop, that should put you at 40 while raged, which is the cap)
Spot (Cross class, but worth it - fit as many points as you can in here)
1 Rank of Tumble (sacrifce balance at the early levels to get 1 rank in this - that's all you need to tumble)
If you have more left, pop em in haggle to make some extra coin.

Spot:
Cross class skill, but very much worth it. Like the class video says, barbarians make good scouts.. And they are best for running into stealthed enemies and traps if you don't have a rogue. So seeing the stealthed enemies is a huge asset. This works quite well if you get the FF/+spot item from like Co6. You'll also noticed the odd trap or secret door, even in high level quest. Even finding most of the trap boxes in module3 for the rogues lately as I got my spot up to 25.
- You might think listen *should* work better as its a class skill... However listen items are harder to get and on worse slots then spot (spot goggle vs listen hat - hats good for dex, goggles not really important for anything cept truesight, which is raid item only mainly useful for PvP and castable by wiz and clr for PvM) Also listen does not let you see the monsters, but merely faint red footstep outlines - which can be tough to spot in the fury of combat.

Jump:
As a front line combatant, your primary job is to run really fast and jump over the enemies front line combatants.. To kill there clerics and wizards in the back ranks. So many barbarians don't realize how huge this is. Trust me, its HUGE.

Tumble: Lets you move faster when under the effects of a bad spell like slow or that nasty white dragons ice freeze effect. You require 1 rank to use it, thats it. Anymore won't provid any additional benefit to this build.

Balance: It's a very important skill, if situation skill, you generally want to aim for a score around 20, you can do this easily with an item but ideally you get it to near this without wasting a slot on an item. You may wish to still carry a good set of balance boots however, as some rare encounters need allot to stay on your toes (Warforged Titan comes to mind)

No (active use of) intimidate? :
Your a low AC death dealer, you do not want agro, you want the enemy dead before he makes you dead. Hold the agro with your weapon when the situation demands.

New Ultimate engame stats (pretty temporary but can maintain that minus ~8 points fairly well):
Click Here (http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9726/44615824.jpg)

Thoughts on the build at lvl20 in module 9

With the new +3 critical multiplier from Frenzy Berserker this build has seen a massive increase in DPS.. And it was great before.. Now it's insane. I can drop 1100+ hitpoints devils in a single lucky swing. On average I'll kill them in 2-4 seconds. This incredible DPS really helps in all the new quests which feature pretty heavy melee combat. The incredible strength you can achive means your Trip ability becomes pretty well unresistable at the maximum levels.. And with the glancing blow procs (whch work about 30% in my estinamtion on this build) you can trip multiple monsters at once!

The very high hitpoints and DPS this build reachs also makes it a perfect tank for the new tower of despair. Tanked it on elite with this guy no problem with the healers using very few resources as we had very high scroll masteyr clerics and I have very high healing amp (150%).

Old comments from module6 (still relevant to Vale content):
Combine this builds massive strength with stunning blow and it works incredible. You'll still see some resists vs elite content ofcourse, but normal and hard,, or vs caster mobs on elite even? Works like 95% of the time. And once you stun something, its dead, its not going to survive your massive 200+ damage critical hits over and over. Really fun in the new running with the devils quest - the Eladrin clerics there have over 1200 hp on elite, and can heal themselves very fast for 400+ a pop.. But hit them with a stun and there done for in seconds, its really fun.

The Gianthold, Necropolis and Vale content is all relatively low AC. So the new barbarian power attack rules vs it. Talking +16 damage, with -8 to hit.. Uber. Even with that large penalty to hit and constantly moving without spring attack I still hit pretty much 100% vs anything aside from a elite purple named-boss.

Greater two handed is an incredible feat, gota try it to see how much extra damage you dish out with it.

Also a excellent build for PvP too. Straight up melee combat, no other build can withstand the onslaught from a barbarian this strong. Even the maximum AC combat expertise fighter/paladin hybrid cannot survive this. 50+ ac is not a problem to cut through. Pure fighters get straight up wrecked, tank barbarians get cut down almost as quick, rangers and rogues dont stand a chance, no one can outrun a barbarian. Clerics can generally hold and command this build onto its but fairly easy, but the funny thing is, after that they try to melee you, and if you were smart enough to get your DR boost on, they won't be able to damage you, even held. Well played wizards and sorcerers can hold/kill you instantly, but you can do the same to them so it comes down to who reaches who first. In tavern brawls, this means they get killed before they even know your there. In death match you gotta be careful.

Some notes on Frenzy Berserker:
Keep in mind this build won't be for everyone as berserker does require some careful timing of active ability to work well, and the self damage can be tough to deal with (however Frenzy is an entirely optional at will ability, so don't look at it as a constant drawback - you always decide when it happens)
Also has a few bugs atm:
Bugs:
The crit multiplier only applies to damage increase, not burst damage yet.
Your flinch every attack as you hurt yourself.

MAX DPS Disclaimer:
DPS is a very relative thing, and what's "MAX" really depends heavily on the situation. I know people will try to argue that this isn't "max" .. But for what counts IMO, it is. So I offer this:
For sustained (40+ minutes of rage on this build), real average DPS against end game raid boss's, this build is the max.
Yes - against trash mobs with zero fort, in a magical fantasy land where rogues get 100% sneak attacks and always have haste boost active - Rogues will deal more DPS...
And yes a similar Kensei THF build haste boosted may have a similar burst twitch DPS, but can't be sustained and will be beaten in the long run.
So for when it counts against the tough bosses, Berserkers can't be matched. Berserkers also have the benefits of having great DPS vs all targets, while other classes can be very poor vs select targets. (EG monks aren't the best vs auto crit, rogues are poor vs things resistant to sneak attacks, kensai fighters who just spec slash are generally poor vs targets with blunt DR.. Barbs have no real weaknesses when it comes to DPS, frenzy damage is 100% unresistable)

For those who want to try to refute my claim that this is the max sustained DPS for boss targets, I offer a challenge - DPS Challenge part 2: Kill the portal in Aussircaex's Valley or Giants in Epic Claw and post a video. They have static hitpoints and are always there. All the top giant entrys currently use extremely similar build (same but WF or Half Orc).

Edit notes:
Updated for Ebberon Unlimited. This build has survived very well over the years since I designed it in beta and it keeps getting better.

Links to other Barbarian stuff:
Definitive Guide to Barbarians (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=296816), Update 9 Half-Orc Barbs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161), Youtube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/AxerDDO), DPS Challenge (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300873)

[Xzanthos]

Thanks for the repost Shade, much appreciated.

[Devilgoat]

Hi shade....

Now with the bloodstone rage from the scourge choker that lasts short periods then you are fatigued... is it better to be a warforged or a dwarf?

Is there any item/effect other than WF exhaustion immunity that will stop the horrible -50% attack penalty?

[Shade]

Nothing, not even being a warforged prevents the attack speed debuff from the scourge choker. So nothing changes there in Dwarf vs WF.

Really the only way to prevent it is to constantly keep getting hit, as long as your getting hit the rage refreshs and the fatigue doesn't start. So pretty much the item is best for large boss fights where your getting hit allot, reaver, dragon, marelith are all good spots to wear it. Regular questing, I generally don't.

WF vs Dwarf Like always they have there strengths and weaknesses. Personally I think WF lend themselves better to more solo type players who rely on having the many imunities and such more so then a overall stronger melee combatant that dwarfs are.

Mod6 gives us lvl16, just 1 step away from tireless rage. So mod 7/8 we should see it and then WF lose there biggest advantage over dwarf. But thats a long ways off and allot of things can change.

[Devilgoat]

SO.. warforged still have better dps with -3hit +6damage.
vs dwarfs +2/+2 with axes (+0/+0 with sword of dragon)

since barbarians are all about dps... and it may only go up at lvl 16 or 18 to -4/+8dmg.. doesn't that mean the warforged is better?

or even human with an extra feat and +1str..? just asking .. cos I dont have a lvl 14 barber (yet!)

[Sutek]

Shade,

I've built you barbarian as both a WF and as a Dwarf.
I absolutly loved both builds until I get to about lvl 8 or 9.
Do you find that your barb is a heavy drinker like mine?


I mean going through 30-40 cure serious pots per quest?
I just don't have enough plat to be able to play these characters.

I know dwarfs like to drink but this is crazy.

Am I doing something wrong here? Even when I go sword and board I'm still takeing way too much damage and I lose a lot of my damage output. I'm pretty sure every cleric on the server hates me and for good reason. If I was playing my cleric I wouldn't heal Baran either.

Maybe I should switch to a masterwork greatclub?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I mean going through 30-40 cure serious pots per quest?
I just don't have enough plat to be able to play these characters.Try Cure Moderate Pots; 66% healing output for 40% cost. In other words, drinking 300pp worth (10) of CMW pots yields 90 to 190 HP. Drinking 300pp worth (4) of CSW pots yields 56 to 116 HP. It takes longer to drink, but who cares. You're hopefully not healing with pots mid-combat anyway. And even if you are, an extra 5-10 HP from CSW pots won't save you.

[Borror0]

Am I doing something wrong here? Even when I go sword and board I'm still takeing way too much damage and I lose a lot of my damage output. I'm pretty sure every cleric on the server hates me and for good reason. If I was playing my cleric I wouldn't heal Baran either.

I'm not Shade but,

Of course you're taking loads of damage, you've got no AC. You must use your brain, not stand and hack N' slash. If you're surrounded, jump above the mobs, try to get the less aggro as possible, by that I mean the aggro from the smallest number of mobs as possible at the same time.

Also, stay with a Greataxe, the best you can find.

The idea behind a barbarian is "Offense is the best defense!" That means "Kill them before they kill you!!"

Here is what my friend while on her Barbarian. She buys wands and, if the cleric isn't an incompetent, she'll pass a wand or two to him and ask him to top her off. Wands are cheaper than potions, so that might help a bit.

So the key, avoid getting it, and gain the trust of the cleric. ;)

Borror0

[Twerpp]

Sweet build man, I'm addicted to melees, 2hf, and fighter feats but I'm definitely rolling a version of this on the very day Half-Orcs hit the server (whenever that is).

[Sutek]

I'm not Shade but,

Of course you're taking loads of damage, you've got no AC.

Just for the record this is not necesarily true. When Using +3 mith FP (best I can afford) +5 heavy shield, Iron Manacles, Barck skin pot, my AC ain't that bad.

Problem is in some elite quests AC is pointless so it's back to big axe, double rage, kill or be killed, chug pots when they're dead.

[Sutek]

Try Cure Moderate Pots; 66% healing output for 40% cost. In other words, drinking 300pp worth (10) of CMW pots yields 90 to 190 HP. Drinking 300pp worth (4) of CSW pots yields 56 to 116 HP. It takes longer to drink, but who cares. You're hopefully not healing with pots mid-combat anyway. And even if you are, an extra 5-10 HP from CSW pots won't save you.

Thanks man good advice. I never realized it would be cheaper to use cure mod. *duh*

[Emili]

Looks like a dwarven version of a Maldini DPS build. Has anyone seen what happened to that build thread also? I was wondering of a way to fit the new HV into it to power it up even more.

[maddmatt70]

Looks like a dwarven version of a Maldini DPS build. Has anyone seen what happened to that build thread also? I was wondering of a way to fit the new HV into it to power it up even more.

I love that people try to name builds after players. I mean how many different ways can you build a two-handed weapon wielding barbarian. I would like to introduce my new laura build - what she looks strangely like a maldini or axer build, but instead of spell defense 1 I have the intimidate 1 enhancement. She is wayyy different.

[Borror0]

Problem is in some elite quests AC is pointless so it's back to big axe, double rage, kill or be killed, chug pots when they're dead.

AC is pointless becomes pretty much the same as no AC, huh ? ;)


Looks like a dwarven version of a Maldini DPS build. Has anyone seen what happened to that build thread also? I was wondering of a way to fit the new HV into it to power it up even more.

Here. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=115850&highlight=Maldini)

Maldini's Last Activity: 09-24-2007 04:07 PM

[Borror0]

I love that people try to name builds after players. I mean how many different ways can you build a two-handed weapon wielding barbarian. I would like to introduce my new laura build - what she looks strangely like a maldini or axer build, but instead of spell defense 1 I have the intimidate 1 enhancement. She is wayyy different.

Maldini said it was a template. Never he said he was original or there was only one way to get it done.

I prefer Malidini or Shade over The Super mean mean mean mean THF angry Barbarian.

Truth is, it's always good to have template. Perfect when it's needed to compare between classes or for explaining newbies. There are not many ways to do a goof THF barbarian, but if youu're new... it's not that easy to know what's good or not. That's why they are there.

They never said they were the most clever by thinknig about it, but they know how to play it, what's good, what's bad, why.

They have gain their rights to have their own build here.

[Sutek]

AC is pointless becomes pretty much the same as no AC, huh ? ;)


uh yes I suppose it does. *Runs to the AH to sell mith FP and buy fearsome robe*

[maddmatt70]

They have gain their rights to have their own build here.

If you mean by this statement they have access to this website and can post here then yeah they have the right. This is America..

[Borror0]

If you mean by this statement they have access to this website and can post here then yeah they have the right. This is America..

I meant they thought about it, posted it first, know how to play it.

They understand the character and *can* explain to tohers what X, Y or Z does!! This is what I mean, they can dall it their own build. If you want to post Laura's build, do it. Now, will you be different for Mal and Shade, possibly. Mal is a human... Shade is a dwarf and has Toughness, which Mal doesn't like much. I do agree that they are very similar, but that is the way it is.

These are, even if really close one from an other, two different take on the same archetype. Two different points of view. They have no "trademark", they don't act like if anyone copying their build were noobs/stealer, or whatever else. They posted there for others to see. It does help others. Go look at the OP, read it well:


The thread for Shade's max DPS build seems to be missing. I had it bookmarked to reference as I level, but the link is broken now. (The link was http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=73360 )

If anyone had it saved to notepad or if perhaps Shade himself could repost it, it would be greatly appreciated ;)

He's got asked for it, people use it... that's the important part. If there were no one to read it, why post it? But there are, there are people counting on their point of view. That's what matters. They are "expert" on barbarians, or at least the two-handed fighting kind. they know what they prefer, and why.

The name is for better referencing. Better to say a "Maldini build" than say a "well that is a barbairan based on the barbarian created and posted on the forums by Maldini". At least, I prefer the former.

[maddmatt70]

You tread a fine line mister. I am personally not a fan of elitism i.e. I think it a negative view of the world. It is not that difficult to figure out a viable barbarian build what is far more difficult is making it work in game. I have only run with maldini a couple of times, but having run with shade/axer many times I can attest he has alot more abilities/skills then just some silly barbarian build of which there is only a limited number of truely viable ones. If people ask for builds that is one thing, but take your "right earning mentality" somewhere else, but of course this is America so you can keep right on trucking with it I guess.

[Borror0]

If people ask for builds that is one thing, but take your "right earning mentality" somewhere else.

I'll say it again, they name it. They could name it the Hhfgfhghfghfghfghf build, but that would be really easy to say, wouldn't it? It's just a name.

[Emili]

I love that people try to name builds after players. I mean how many different ways can you build a two-handed weapon wielding barbarian. I would like to introduce my new laura build - what she looks strangely like a maldini or axer build, but instead of spell defense 1 I have the intimidate 1 enhancement. She is wayyy different.

Ok, well then it looks like a dwarven version of a DPS barbarian build Maldini happened to post.:D Feel better?

I mean seriosly, we all know people do not invent a build per say, the tools are there and anyone can come up with a build in multiple configuration sor whatever... All I asked was had anyone seen the thread as I was looking for it and it was not showing up.

[Shade]

Ok, well then it looks like a dwarven version of a DPS barbarian build Maldini happened to post.:D Feel better?


The reason mine and Maldinis builds are refered to by name and well known for what they are. is simply because they are really the only original builds that are actually quite good. Most of the PMs I receive are either about my build or how players have enjoyed using it, so it holds true. Nothing about elitisms, just about helping players play good and fun builds.

I've posted mine back in beta on the beta forums, and reposted in early on in live, to say i've copied Maldini is funny. I don't think he copied mine either, he had his up fairly early pre mod-1 as well. And while the build have the same feats, the enhancements differ greatly so they are unique.

Re: sutek:
This is a group build. You really shouldn't expect to be able to heal yourself early on. While I can solo quite well with it now, with all the loot and raid gears, it's not the focus of the build, just something that happened.

Just always group with good healing clerics or bards. Played correctly the cleric should not run out of mana healing you in any quest of appropriate level 1-13. level 14 clerics have to use heal scrolls, its a part of the game. Most of the ones I regularly group with have a near unlimited supply and use only scrolls to heal me because they have more fun using the SP to attack monsters.

It's a two handed build, it excels in DPS and can utterly dominate any quest if done correctly, basicly the best way to play it is to be make sure your party is working as a team, keeping you fully buffed because really you have the abilities to complete the entire quest yourself - given the correct buffs and some healing. I often tell my party, yea just buff me only - because barbarians can make the best use of buffs.

Never go sword and board. Because really you should take less damage with a 2 hander - simply kill your enemies fast enough so they can't hit you much, if at all. Very important early on is DR boost and uncanny dodge as well, you should use it non stop whenver your about to engage an enemy - should you run out of them quickly.. Your doing a good job, thats what for there for, dont save them. End up at a shrine with a few uses left and you didnt be aggresive enough.

Thing is well played barbarians need allot of support to fight well.Try to always have someone to haste and someone to heal your in the party at a minimum. Ask the wizard for continuoys haste, stoneskin and displacement.. It's far better on you then on him and will save the cleric over 75% SP worth of healing, sometimes more.

And the clerics also need to know, for a high HP dwarf barbarian like this, they can waste allot of SP healing it "wrong". Tell them to only use the heal spell, and only heal you when your below 50% - that will be much more effecient and makes healing very easy for clerics. Versus constantly topping people off with lots of little cures - cost allot more mana. With only big heals on you - you really should be trying to take ALL the damage, yes be the mana sponge, because you will save the party allot of damage.

Ie monsters hit you for 30 dmg, 15 is stopped by your DR.. 5 minuits later and 20 more hits the cleric might need to heal you.

Versus the monster hit the 8 con elf wizard for 30 dmg.. He's nearly dead and needs a heal imediately - 20 times over and the clerics out of mana.
So really in the end how much damage you take can be as much your groups fault as your own. Many different factors to consider.
And to answer the question directly : Honestly allot of the time I don't even carry potions and the clerics don't know or care. If I have some I only use them if I wanna run off and solo, otherwise ill ask for a heal, wands are cheaper ;p.
If your clerics just suck and are that poor, buy them some heal scrolls and/or wands, allot cheaper them potions. Just remember to ask for them back if you give them to an unknown pug cleric.

n Borrorq.. Im one of the top anti toughness guys around, kinda odd u thought my build had it lol.. None of my charactersr have it, not mental toughness either.

[Sutek]

I just hit lvl 12 Greater THF is tha bomb dittty bomb bomb :)

Thanks Shade the build kicks arse

[Devilgoat]

A couple of questions:

1. 18 str 20con OR 18str 18con 12dex 10wiz.
Basically I am asking why u prefer +1will save +2reflex save (because that's all u r getting) over the extra hps and rage length.
Is 20 con min/maxing or gimping.
Does the bonus to saves make the difference? U already have +3 (or more) to saves vs spells as a dwarf .. is more needed?
Should I copy you and have less con?

2. I thought i'd repost another nice post by Shade that showed glancing blow damage:
10dmg or less = 1-3
20dmg or less = 4-6
30dmg or less = 7-12
40 dmg or less 13-18
50 dmg or less 19-24
60+ dmg (maximum possible basicly) can get you over 25, highest i can get is 30. WF with power attack VI might get a little higher.

Looks like the warforged power attack enhancement (+6damage) will add almost +3glancing blow damage. However he is at -3 to hit. Does the -3to hit extra miss chance change the DPS equation much? Do WF Barbarians miss much with power attack on ? DId anyone do the math including glancing blow damage? Perhaps the warforged enhancement for powerattack is overkill at high end content because -3 to hit lowers dps more than 6damage and extra glancing blow dmg???

[Shade]

Well for me it is a 28 point build, so the choice for max con wasn't there. But even so if I rerolled as a 32 I would only go 18 con. Because really hp only get you so far, at a certain point - anymore is just overkill.. Because eventually the monsters will wear you down and you'll need a heal, so having a good buffer to make those heals easy on the cleric is nice - but right now that break point is about 400 hp. Anymore doesn't benefit the cleric, it just ends up his full heal doesn't quite put you to full (and some clerics like keeping people full so he might cast another heal actually wasting mana due to your insane hp)

Right now as setup with a +2 con tome I have 440 hp raged - with about 18 minuits of rage.. Plenty to keep raged 100% of the time. This is just how I setup - its not even max enhancements, I could gain another +3 con and extend rage IV for something like 26 minuits of rage and 500 hp - buts its unnessary. Sometimes with double madstone or bloodrage ill be over 500 hp, but it won't make any real difference.

So yea, wisdom all the way. Will save you can never get enough of and can mean instant death in many cases, as wellit also helps your spot skill - which teeters just on the brink of being able to spot mobs with just greater hero on, so the 1-2 points matter there.

Dex i got 20 with a +3 tome and its great. Doesn't benefit my AC anymore then 16 would, but reflex saves are important and are the lowest overall save on this build. The couple more +to hit for my dwarven thrower is nice too, some mobs just dont come down to melee. And a bit of balance skill - something I neglected to put any ranks into, so thats important to keep it at a reasonable level.

WF Power attack.. Yea really can't handle another -3 to hit, wouldn't be able to hit the broadside of a barn with it. Really I only recommend even the xtra -3 for power attack III for when your maxxed out with your +2 str tome and preferably the +1 to hit bracers or battle coin too. I use bother the +1 hit bracers and littany of the dead for another +1 to hit, with a +3 str tome and there are still a couple mobs that i might need to swing 3,4,5 or better on. Mostly really tough bosses like Demon Queen on elite. So I wouldn't want another -3 to hit.

[BigMark]

I see you say to take the barbarian power attack I as your second AP, but you can't take that until you get power attack at level 3, just respec at lvl 3 and take a boost instead? Thats what I did at least, nice being able to respec.

[Renegade66]

Has the math been done to know whether a dual wielding Barbarian with Power Attack and twin Deathnips or a Deathnip and Greater Bane Weapon can out DPS a THF?

I have a THF human with SoS and a TWF with Twin Deathnips. I'd say that my TWF now can out DPS the THF, especially on single targets including Red Bosses. High DR will even things out a bit, but I still think the TWF might outpace a bit. Of course there are no glancing blows though.

Deathnip (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Risia/Deathnip.jpg)- +5 Heavy Pick, Maiming, Seeker +8 (Crit: 19-20)

I'm critting on a 15 for 130-200 dmg when dual wielding. Using a greater bane weapon is nice because you get the benefit of the Seeker +8 from the Deathnip.

I have a math degree, but not the patience to figure this out. I'd love to see an analysis.

Ren

[Shade]

I have a math degree, but not the patience to figure this out. I'd love to see an analysis.


Blah pretty off topic, but i'll reply anyways.

Not even someone smart with a 'math degree' can do any accurate comparison between 2 vastly different combat styles using just plain math. The only accurate way to do such a test would be ingame against a static HP monster that respawned.. Which is very difficult to test as we do not have any of those around (mob HP is usually rolled semi random on dungeon generation)

Regardless, the idea of TWF beating THF in the current game by any real margin is laughable. I've grouped with several players who have the dual deathnips and TWF stuff on there barbarians (often due to explots..) and they never came even close to my killcounts. Which isn't really an accurate test as speed and player skill have much larger impacts on that then anything else, but still goes to show they are nothing special and can't make up for the speed or accuracy of mass killing of a well played THF build.

SoS these days is a outdated weapon and poor comparison imo. Someone using a SoS vs me using a greater bane greataxe won't even register in the killcounts, he'd be dozens if not hundreds of kills behind. There that much slower and the lack of dwarf axe enhancements really add up.

I just find THF to be superior in DPS and especially overall speed and ease of targetting vs the much more clumsy TWF style...
....For now anyways, in mod6 the overall balance of the 2 combat styles will mostly likely change with the introduction of superior weapon styles. They will hopefully be balanced enough to keep this kind of discussion as debatable as it is now, as they should be.. But only time will tell.

Anyways, this topis is for my THF build, so kindly create a new one is you wish to continue this.

[Renegade66]

Blah pretty off topic, but i'll reply anyways.

Not even someone smart with a 'math degree' can do any accurate comparison between 2 vastly different combat styles using just plain math. The only accurate way to do such a test would be ingame against a static HP monster that respawned.. Which is very difficult to test as we do not have any of those around (mob HP is usually rolled semi random on dungeon generation)

Regardless, the idea of TWF beating THF in the current game by any real margin is laughable. I've grouped with several players who have the dual deathnips and TWF stuff on there barbarians (often due to explots..) and they never came even close to my killcounts. Which isn't really an accurate test as speed and player skill have much larger impacts on that then anything else, but still goes to show they are nothing special and can't make up for the speed or accuracy of mass killing of a well played THF build.

SoS these days is a outdated weapon and poor comparison imo. Someone using a SoS vs me using a greater bane greataxe won't even register in the killcounts, he'd be dozens if not hundreds of kills behind. There that much slower and the lack of dwarf axe enhancements really add up.

I just find THF to be superior in DPS and especially overall speed and ease of targetting vs the much more clumsy TWF style...
....For now anyways, in mod6 the overall balance of the 2 combat styles will mostly likely change with the introduction of superior weapon styles. They will hopefully be balanced enough to keep this kind of discussion as debatable as it is now, as they should be.. But only time will tell.

Anyways, this topis is for my THF build, so kindly create a new one is you wish to continue this.

What's laughable is elitest, condescending tones (not that I have any room to talk). Hey, I thought you squelched me after I took you up on your THF vs TWF challenge and you ran for the hills? I still can't believe you didn't think of Risia before making that challenge. It still makes me smile.

Anyway, there's nothing laughable about my stance.

Strength: Equal
Weapon base to hit: THF gets +2 to hit over deathnip due to Dwarf axe to hit bonus
Weapon base avg dmg (non crit): Deatnip 9.5 (d8+5), THF 20 (d12+1+3d6+2 axe enh)
Power Attack: THF gets full str bonus where TWF only gets half
Attacks/round: THF 4, TWF 7 (will go to 8 in mod6?)
Critical THF: Crits on 17 for 3x dmg
Critical TWF: Deathnip Crits on 15 for 4x dmg, Seeker +8 4x, and Maiming 3d6

Deathnips have less dmg but nearly twice as many attacks and 4x crit on a 15 vs 3x on a 17 (or SoS with 3x on a 13). Who said the Sword of Shadow was obsolete? 13 vs 17 crit and not ever having to swap out makes this a great option.

Other considerations:
- THF gets the benefit of glancing blows, but also the additional aggro generation. Charm one of the mob and a TWF can kill them off taking aggro on one at a time where a THF will aggro the entire mob.
- THF do better at bypassing high DR
- One must also question the feasibility of a swiss army barbarian owning a greater bane greataxe for every monster type. There is time lost finding the right weapon to equip (assuming you have it). Also, with mixed mobs, swapping weapons in the middle of battle is incredibly cumbersome with many lost attacks in doing so. This GREATLY benefits using a SoS or dual wielding Deathnips as no swapping is required.
- TWF can swiss army barbarian as well dual wielding a greater bane with the deathnip and with the greater bane getting the benefit of the Seeker +8.
- Another huge consideration is that TWF can use w/p rapiers that crit on a 13. No melee can kill non red bosses faster. Elf/Drow also get +2 to hit with rapiers, which negates dwarf axe enhancement.

Again, the math is needed here, but my contention is that TWF not only stat kills the fastest, but also rivals THF in DPS now with the advent of the Deathnip.

[Fallout]

TWF and THF Barbs are each fun. Each are different playstyle. Shade's barbarian is very entertaining to watch. Buff him and watch him go.

My THF barb has the DR for defense, and Con for rages. Pretty much used Shades/Mal's barb build. Their template is a rock solid build. I still use SOS because hard to find good greater bane axes.

I like TWF. I made a TWF ranger (but I'm not crazy about dex based char), a TWF paladin using khopeshes, a TWF dorf fighter with dorf axes. So now trying TWF barb (newer build, trying to figure things out), because of higher dex reqs, and max ST, his con is lower. I also used human versatilty to help with stats (since don't have +6 items), so had to sacrifice alot of things.

Fully buff both barbs will do alot of damage, which does more? I think are fairly close. Like others have stated, each of pro's.
THF with glancing blows on multiple mobs. (can get Cleave line too).
TWF with more attacks, and with deathnips also do alot of damage.

Bottom line is both builds are fun. I don't really think in terms of one is better then other, just different way of playing.

[maddong]

A twf gets 8 attacks if they are really good with twitch (but the 1st at -4), or at least some of the time.

A twf also benefits more from having a bard in the group.

I believe a twf gets no power attack damage bonus with the offhand, but retains the penalty.

You could also factor in against crit immune monsters (when you pretty much have to use greater banes).

[hennebux]

I agreee with alot thats been said, however greater bane in theory could be used on both hands with a twf.And we all know what happpens on a big six item with that many swings...
big thf = more damage
big twf = more kills
I don't see the point in disputing this on a min/max build.

I think it's just an e-peen thing...I have a thf barb and guess what... it aint the optimal barb in most cases.

"Ce la vie"

[MondoGrunday]

the twf barbs take a more skilled player to equal the kills of a boring thf. thf are cookie cutter with very little variance. maybe a few ehnancements and a feat or two but overall they are all built the same with very little creativity. I have one too, so I understand that to excell at dps, there is really only one way to build a thf. comparing dps exactly as it is Id give the dps to the thf, but if you look at damage per round I think they are very similar. basically fewer bigger swings to more smaller ones, but damgage output and kill rates are pretty close if played by equally equiped and competent players.

[Shade]

I see you say to take the barbarian power attack I as your second AP, but you can't take that until you get power attack at level 3, just respec at lvl 3 and take a boost instead? Thats what I did at least, nice being able to respec.
Yea I didn't really use that order as I leveld up since I leveld this character over a year ago before we had this enhancement system.. So the order is not really 100% correct or optimized - for now take them as you see fit. Overall for the power attack enhancement its probably best to wait and take those once you get more optimized equipment since the to hit penalty can hurt more at low levels then it helps. But once you got a planar gird and +6 str item you should be fine to max the line.

I'll probably update the build for mod6 and post a more optimized order for everyone.

[Cold_Stele]

Edited out - posted in wrong thread.

[Voska]

I was wondering, why not throw 1 fighter in for stunning blow. Obviously ridiculus str plays into raising the dc. With a +10 item and a 44 str, thats alreadY DC 37. One obvious problem is the loss of crit range and i dont know if in general the only monstesr that survive are bosses, who are most likely immune to stunning blow anyway. Just throwing an idea out there.

[Renegade66]

I was wondering, why not throw 1 fighter in for stunning blow. Obviously ridiculus str plays into raising the dc. With a +10 item and a 44 str, thats alreadY DC 37. One obvious problem is the loss of crit range and i dont know if in general the only monstesr that survive are bosses, who are most likely immune to stunning blow anyway. Just throwing an idea out there.

The loss of crit range is huge. If you want to take stunning blow, make a human instead of a dwarf. You get the extra feat plus another point of strength. You lose the axe enhancements, but can spend those points on other valuable things that humans get. Stunning blow works on orange bosses. Just not reds and purples. Great feat.

[Deragoth]

Having a good time with a slight variation of Shade's build. Can't hardly go wrong with it.

[reziel_deadshot]

shade not criticizing just noting because i did the same thing in my primitive sniper build (barbarian or ranger forums to see) but barbarian critical rage tier 2 is level 14 barb..i know don't fret i did the same thing in the original build thinking it was 13 instead of 14

[Shade]

Yea, like I posted a couple times now the enhancement order isn't 100% right, just take them as they come..

The order is just generated from an enhancement planner - which has some bugs obviously. The build itself will have no trouble getting all those enhancements listed however as I actually had them all on my character at one point. I do shift them around a little here and there but overall they stay similar to whats posted.

[tihocan]

The order is just generated from an enhancement planner - which has some bugs obviously.
If it's my planner, I'm aware of the bugs, I just need to take the time to get them fixed ;)

[Shade]

Updated enhancement selection order to be more correct.

Yea i think it is yours tihocan, despite the bugs I find it to be the best one out there. Just used the order adjustment features to get it right.

Only bad thing is copy/pasting it to the forums doesn't keep its nice table formatting, so it ends up as a big mess that takes a while to edit to clean up. Would be nice to have a more plain text generation option for forums. Tho again how it works now is still much better then other planners which are a total mess imo.

[kyebosh]

Shade, I've seen your build on display &... well... as with all classes, a big majority of success is on the playstyle rather than build/gear. You certainly have fine-tuned your playstyle thus your build excels. Take note fellows; if you play this build or similar without taking the time to learn tactics & aggro management you will be a mana sponge & not much else :)
May I suggest anyone tempted to try this style (& who really wants to be good) play a rogue to high levels, you'll learn quickly how to manage aggro & still deal good damage. <100HP is a great teacher of situational awareness & mob prioritisation. Just a thought :)

Anyway, my reason for posting is to ask if anyone has tried this kind of build or style with a WF? I know there's plenty of WF Barbs out there, but are there any WF Axer's? Shade, have you tried it?
I'm not for one moment debating which is better, I've not played a barb past 4th. I only ask because I have a Repair focussed Sorc & he's so much fun to play with a good WF barb... I can buff him beyond recognition, repair faster than a cleric can heal, have a bigger SP pool & can still provide good combat spells (glitterdust etc to help out). Lower AC & HP is no fun, but with a good team it is not a prob.

Thoughts? Experiences? Forhead-slaps?

[MondoGrunday]

i think its hilarious that some people have the nerv to call a build their "own" by name even though all players have equal access to the tools to build these. the ego to assume because you POSTED a build on a forum that you were the first to create it?? LOL.
Shade and Maldini are known for their posts rather than their build. And from what I see of the dps version of the Barb, there really is only one simple way to build a thf barb. sure there will be little tweaks here and there for personal preference which come along with playstyle, but all in all, this build is anything but original. It is a cookie cutter barb with almost no variation to speak of. It is not the only "good original" build either. How can one make such a sweeping generalization and that has no basis on fact what so ever?
All we have here is an ego that needs constant stroking. I believe I have an original build, but it's not called the Spiritmonger build because its good, its called that because if I post enough about it people will associate it with me.
What we need is a "playoff" like ren suggested. Everyone bring their barbs to Risia for a Killoff competition with only self buffs and heals. Lets see who really builds the best barbs and how they play them, these forums are just words, lets put them to action.
I'd love to see the dps and twf's of stormreach face off.
Who's man (or women :) ) enough to try it...

[Renegade66]

i think its hilarious that some people have the nerv to call a build their "own" by name even though all players have equal access to the tools to build these. the ego to assume because you POSTED a build on a forum that you were the first to create it?? LOL.
Shade and Maldini are known for their posts rather than their build. And from what I see of the dps version of the Barb, there really is only one simple way to build a thf barb. sure there will be little tweaks here and there for personal preference which come along with playstyle, but all in all, this build is anything but original. It is a cookie cutter barb with almost no variation to speak of. It is not the only "good original" build either. How can one make such a sweeping generalization and that has no basis on fact what so ever?
All we have here is an ego that needs constant stroking. I believe I have an original build, but it's not called the Spiritmonger build because its good, its called that because if I post enough about it people will associate it with me.
What we need is a "playoff" like ren suggested. Everyone bring their barbs to Risia for a Killoff competition with only self buffs and heals. Lets see who really builds the best barbs and how they play them, these forums are just words, lets put them to action.
I'd love to see the dps and twf's of stormreach face off.
Who's man (or women :) ) enough to try it...

I'm in. What quest?

[Shade]

All we have here is an ego that needs constant stroking. I believe I have an original build, but it's not called the Spiritmonger build because its good, its called that because if I post enough about it people will associate it with me.

Well I think it's hilarious that you can call this post "ego stroking" .. I'd check who the original poster is on this one before you can even think of such a inane idea. This build holds my name simply because that's what the OP called it, so i'm recognized for posting and supporting it for so long, It was requested as it has been many times so I obliged and posted it.. Many will remember that I orignally I actually never put my name on the build and just called it a generic max DPS build.

I'm sorry I've never seen anyone request the "spirintmonger" build, but thats just too bad. Rest assured your jealously here did not go unnoitced however. It's enough to prove the build is good as well as popular.

Re: Kyebosh -
I hardly consider this a bad build or a difficult one to play for new players. I'd agree it is more difficult to play then say a plain dps fighter, and possibly less challenging then a rogue.. However that does not make it bad for new players at all.

It is a great build for new players because it doesn't require 32 point builds, drow, or any special equipement. With just the most basicly and commonly available gear this build performs fine. Sure it needs lots of healing, most new players do regardless of class/build and it's a group build and works excellent for that as it's designed to be so.

Making it warforged would unfortunately make is a unpopular build for many pick up groups due to the healing penalty.. It does make a fair difference on a build that reachs over 400hp. However as I've commented before - the same build but warforged in a group with a WF-specilized healer would be quite awesome.

[MondoGrunday]

I'm sorry I've never seen anyone request the "spirintmonger" build, but thats just too bad. Rest assured your jealously here did not go unnoitced however. It's enough to prove the build is good as well as popular.



I have no wish to be recognized as a character builder. my point is how rediculous it sounds that you claim it is "original" and that its is your build. For you to imply I'm jealous actually backs this statement because in order for me to be jealous I'd have to care that someone has requested your build and not mine. for starters I have not posted my build by request or by my own decision so nobody knows what specs I have. I also don't post how "horrible" other builds are that aren't built like mine. The dps build you claim is yours is great, but far from original. What makes that toon unique is the quality loot items you have. I do not debate that the dps toon is a great build, I just think you claiming it's "your" build to be erroneous.
Now a batman build that combines classes and is comprised of less often used feats/enhancements to get an unexpected result that is positive, is an original build. And deserved of a name associated with it. But a dwarf barbarian with max str. and con. ....well, way to go out on a limb and try something crazy and "original". Just bring your barb to risia so others can see him in action. My measley 38 raged str. surely would be no match for a 50 str. Barb. What have you got to lose? Ren said he would do it, and I'm sure many others would do if for sh|ts and giggles.

[Renegade66]

Just bring your barb to risia so others can see him in action. My measley 38 raged str. surely would be no match for a 50 str. Barb. What have you got to lose? Ren said he would do it, and I'm sure many others would do if for sh|ts and giggles.

Don't hold your breath. He couldn't even take himself up on his own challenge.

[Shade]

Updated for module 6.

And no I will not degrade myself to your level and respond to your childish taunts. I wish they never had that button "view ignored post" ,was a waste of my time to press it.

[Renegade66]

Should have thought of that before setting the challenge. Just because I accepted and you ran doesn't make me the bad guy.

[Shade]

Updated build.

[Shade]

Updated for module 8, with plans for module 9 based on playing on Lammania.

Quick comments on Frenzied Bersker (this builds planned enhancement):

New Frenzy ability is awesome. It works simply as a unlimited clickable ability that you can use anytime and it grants +2 strength and the vicious effect to your weapon.
Duration: 1 Minuit. Cooldown: 30 seconds.
At 1 minuit it's long enough to get you thru a fighr, but short enough if you want to stop using it, you can without too long a wait. Personally I just set it to a mouse key and used it as often as I could. There's no limit to it, and also no animation so it doesn't interupt your combat flow at all. Unfortunately it doesn't yet have a way to dispell it, but that doesn't bother me as I use it all the time.

Also it doesn't impose any of the rage penalties, you can still use all potion and clickies while it's active. So you could just use frenzy all the time on a UMD type build and never suffer the loss of your UMD skills.

Supreme cleave which you get at rank II does not work on Lammania so no opinions on that yet. For now it just gives an ability that works like trip - a single attack. It removes the 10 hp correctly but doesn't actually cleave. There is no cooldown on it at all, you can actaully use it to perform an entire attack chain, albeit a slow one (1 second global cooldown applies)

[Hanam]

You should probably make a thread named "Shade's Max THF".

[Nick_RC]

Ren said he would do it, and I'm sure many others would do if for sh|ts and giggles.

Groan will come along and play even tho the full set of khopeshes i crafted were after the update.

N

[Nick_RC]

So you could just use frenzy all the time on a UMD type build and never suffer the loss of your UMD skills.

Welcome back Shade.

I often didnt see eye to eye with you on some of the finer points and also on attitudes but the barb forums have been quiet of late so at least that might change.

As to the above comment I think its a terrible idea. The frenzy without the rage is not something I would build around. Personally i dont like umd on a barb as it is contradictory to dps output. Self buffing and equipping rr items sure, but self healing forget about it. If you have the frenzy up ur worried about dps not utility. Stack it with the rage. Forget the UMD.

N

Edit : The wf 2 handed Barbairan will do more dps, but dwarf should net superior saves. HP should be a wash.

[Hanam]

Welcome back Shade.

I often didnt see eye to eye with you on some of the finer points and also on attitudes but the barb forums have been quiet of late so at least that might change.

As to the above comment I think its a terrible idea. The frenzy without the rage is not something I would build around. Personally i dont like umd on a barb as it is contradictory to dps output. Self buffing and equipping rr items sure, but self healing forget about it. If you have the frenzy up ur worried about dps not utility. Stack it with the rage. Forget the UMD.

N





Doesn't your bard use madstone boots? I think it's the same thing.

[Shade]

The frenzy without the rage is not something I would build around.

I agree. Never said it was a good idea just noting it's possible for those who may be interested.

And no, this title the original poster made for this thread is just fine and quite accurate.

Fighters out DPS'ing barbarians? haha that will be the day, I welcome the challenge in mod9 tho.

[Nick_RC]

I agree. Never said it was a good idea just noting it's possible for those who may be interested.

And no, this title the original poster made for this thread is just fine and quite accurate.

Fighters out DPS'ing barbarians? haha that will be the day, I welcome the challenge in mod9 tho.

Eh meant wf equivalent barb not fighter - will out dps the dwarf. Typo.

[Borror0]

And no, this title the original poster made for this thread is just fine and quite accurate.
Well, if we really want to debate that: WF and TWF will do more damage than Dwarf and THF.

[maddmatt70]

I agree. Never said it was a good idea just noting it's possible for those who may be interested.

And no, this title the original poster made for this thread is just fine and quite accurate.

Fighters out DPS'ing barbarians? haha that will be the day, I welcome the challenge in mod9 tho.

twf rangers out dps barbarians especially thf barbarians any day of the week sorry Axer, but that is the story right now. You are right fighters are the worst dps class at the moment, but they will get a big bump next mod. Gfunk did a real good statistical analysis of the different build types in a thread in general combat. He compares twf melee because well twf do more damage then thf. If you look at our speed shroud record runs, which are a good test of dps, we use primarily rangers and this is no accident. Yes, you dislike rangers and prefer thf over twf, but that is the facts right now. The monk splash is also incredible potent from a defensive perspective. My guess is once you get more acquainted with the monk splash you will seek to make a character with one.

By the way I made a thief acrobat q-staff thf rogue this mod. He could do comparable dps to your barbarian this mod depending on gear, sneak damage what have you. Next mod the barbarian will surpass him with frenzied berserker at least until acrobat 3 comes out which should be mod 10 or 11.

I have been logging on less these days. Just a little burned out, but will be back hardcore next mod..

[Shade]

... Gfunk did a real good statistical analysis of the different build types in a thread in general combat. .

Gfunk, and every math addict around cannot accurately calculate the thousands of variables that come into real ingame DPS. Not a knock at him, just do not believe anyone can do such a complex system justice with spreadsheet and calcuator sorry.

There are many factors most math addicts simply do not understand about the game.

Some important facts that GREATLY effect this:
- There are 3 different styles of attacking with two handed weapons.

-Attacking while standing still with a two handed fighter is EXTREMELY ineffective. Over 30% slower then attacking while moving, and over 50% slower then the maximum possible attack speed. All spreadsheets and calcuated i've seen ALWAYS use this incorrect attack speed in their calculations.

-Attacking while moving is over 30% faster and grants glancing blows on 50% of your swings - 100% of your swings if you have the spring attack feat and greater two handed feats (not possible on a pure barb but something important to note for THF in general) - ALL current calculators do not correct incorporate glancing blows in any way.

-It is possible to attack while moving, yet not move. This is diffficult to explain and has to be shown to understand - basicly it involves attacking while moving, and stoping inbetween at a fixed interval.. It is a difficult skill that basicly no other player but me uses (i use it 100% of the time in important fights).. I did manage to teach it to one of my friends, after allot of practice he could do it as I could. It is difficult to explain exactly how it works, but it is very simple once you know, This style of attacking is over 50% faster then standard auto attacks. It also provides 50% glancing blows and the -4 penalty to hit only applies on 50% of your swings. I'll post a video of it soon.

-This style of attacking provides 145 swings per minuit hasted. Equivalent TWF swings provides ~210 swings per minuit (not sure on that going off memory). A fary cry from the "TWF is twice as fast as two handed" nonsense.

-It is possible to slightly increase your attack speed with TWF using the above style, but it is extremely difficult to perform due to the timing of the attacks, and only around 5% more effective. I generally do not use on my TWF due to this.

Other issues not considered:

Due to module 8 changes, attacking while moving provides and extreme range of attack with two handed weapons. The enemy monsters do not gain the same advantage, nor does two weapon fighting.. As such THF can simply backpedal and attack a monster without it being close enough to hit you back. The same is generally not possible on a TWF. Does not directly effect DPS, but certain does indirectly as it allows you to fight non-stop without ever needing to delay an attack for a heal.

DPS is a relatively term that can also be interpreted as overall damage dealt in a quest. It's possible for a Barbarian to use the sprint boost enhancement to run ahead of any ranger and kill every monster in the quest before he can even reach them.. In these cases rangers DPS is zero. I've shown this to rangers on several occasions. They seems to think there dual w/p rapiers would win vs my greater banes in killcounts, but very simply due to my supeior speed alone that is rarely the case. The module 8 changes only make this more so as you never need to stop to kill a monster - they will simply follow you as run backwards and kill them.

Regardless if you or the math geeks understand the above concepts, the Frenzied Berserker will be an amazing class. I'll make sure of it :D

[Shade]

The really sad thing about this is the Devs could very easily provide us with a 100% accurate way to gauge DPS on the fly with very little coding.

All they need to do is provide us with a way to output the combat log to a text file on the fly.

The rest can be done by the playerbase's talented coders as it has been done for most other MMOs. All one would need to do is developer a combat log parser to parse the damage logs as they come in, and calcuate it into a damage per second number - that info could then be displayed instantly to the player either as a windowed application next to DDO, or via an overlay.

Perhaps we should request such a function.

[Borror0]

Shade, TWF is noticeably better than THF.

[Hadrian]

Regardless if you or the math geeks understand the above concepts...

I think you might give yourself a little too much credit, and possibly deny lots of good players credit they deserve.

You can assume that you're the only one that knows how to play a barbarian if it makes you feel better, but not if you're trying to make some kind of rational point.

[spifflove]

I hate to admit it but I think Shade has swayed my thought pattern on this one a bit. :eek: I've always liked underdog builds anyway:rolleyes:

[Shade]

I think you might give yourself a little too much credit, and possibly deny lots of good players credit they deserve.

You can assume that you're the only one that knows how to play a barbarian if it makes you feel better, but not if you're trying to make some kind of rational point.

I'm not discrediting Gfunk at all if you read carefully. Just explaning some factors no one can calculate correctly.

He himself admits in his thread that proper swing rates or glancing blow damages are not known or easily calcuted and as such doesn't list any damage per second calculations.

His main "DPS" thread refers to damage per swing. Which can be helpful, but doesn't accurately explain damage per second at all as he notes.

[Shade]

I hate to admit it but I think Shade has swayed my thought pattern on this one a bit. :eek: I've always liked underdog builds anyway:rolleyes:

underdog build haha. This build is the alpha and omega dog build. Always has been.

But yea I'm glad. I'll bring lots of forum browsing barbs back into the proper way of thinking for mod9. THF is awesome and will always be awesome.

[boldarblood]

I have both a 2wf and 2hf barbarian. Currently 2wf is better, more dps, more advantage due to having access to banishing, puncturing, etc. As of mod 8 twf>>>thf.

I am hoping that with changes to mod9 it brings the 2hf closer to 2wf. My 2HF dwarf barb is sitting at a 17 dex awaiting mod9 and the verdict.

[Shade]

Having TWF feats does not grant access to special weapon effects like puncture or banishing. Neither does having the THF prevent it.

So yea you have to use a 1 handed weapon if you want to use them, big deal - there most often crappy +1 weapons anyways so dps is out either way, their purepose is not dps.

But re: THF getting better. I have no doubt in my mind that THF will be superior DPS in mod9. Like I said ill post a video to prove it soon as both my barbs are lvl20 as well.

The only issue with THF in my mind is the 3rd/4th/5th attack being garbage. However a skilled player can avoid ever using them however, I certainly do.

[Hadrian]

I'm not discrediting Gfunk at all if you read carefully. Just explaning some factors no one can calculate correctly.



No, you just said there are things only you can use and that no one else understands. Therefore THF isn't as bad as the rest of us poor ignorant fools think.

Got it. :)

THF is just fine for standard DPS but there is more to it than that. TWF has a clear advantage in any situation where on-hit effects come into play. The improved swing rate of TWF gives this advantage. There are methods that you can use to decrease this gap, but none that close it.

[Aaxeyu]

Shade, your "max dps build" doesn't even come close to the dps of my proposed "max dps build", and that build isn't even max dps. So go figure if your build still can be max dps.

[jakeelala]

you guys are wrong. In that screenshot he posted im Amputation. I've run with Axer a lot. It's extremely hard to keep up with him in kills, and he usually has aggro.

He's right that you don't calc glancing blows which is huge, but it's also very important to note that swinging when moving is a good deal faster for THF. Plus the syngery of having 54 str with the 1.5 damage bonus from str for THF is also HUGE.

You have to have the best gear around to keep up with Axer, and even with a pimped TWF on a favored enemy it's **** near impossible.

[Nick_RC]

You have to have the best gear around to keep up with Axer, and even with a pimped TWF on a favored enemy it's **** near impossible.

Groan would have him;)

(Stirs pot hehehe)

N

[Hadrian]

Plus the syngery of having 54 str with the 1.5 damage bonus from str for THF is also HUGE.




54 strength is including the scourge choker, though. Only a few raid bosses in the game can hit you at the rate you need to keep from getting the -50% penalty, and none of them are in the Shroud.

You can include the scourge choker in any calculation you want as long as you're willing to accept the -50% melee speed penalty.

[Aaxeyu]

you guys are wrong. In that screenshot he posted im Amputation. I've run with Axer a lot. It's extremely hard to keep up with him in kills, and he usually has aggro.

He's right that you don't calc glancing blows which is huge, but it's also very important to note that swinging when moving is a good deal faster for THF. Plus the syngery of having 54 str with the 1.5 damage bonus from str for THF is also HUGE.

You have to have the best gear around to keep up with Axer, and even with a pimped TWF on a favored enemy it's **** near impossible.

No, you are wrong.

I include clancing blows in my calcs.
TWF also gets 1.5 damage bonus from str, you now?
And they get x2 damage from all other damage sources(except kensai).

[Shade]

54 strength is including the scourge choker, though. Only a few raid bosses in the game can hit you at the rate you need to keep from getting the -50% penalty, and none of them are in the Shroud.

You can include the scourge choker in any calculation you want as long as you're willing to accept the -50% melee speed penalty.

Quite true, it's not worth using most of the time. But a 46-48 strength nearly all the time certainly helps.

But the post you were replying to was not about calculations. It was about the real game.

Also find it funny that someone on my ignore list posted a reply about the thread title, one matching probably 4-5 other replies in this thread.. Funny thing is I couldn't change the thread title if I wanted too (not the OP).... but would I if I could? heh.

re: nick, aparently my guild leader grouped with you when you came to Khyber and spoke highly of your skill, and I trust his opinion. So props to you. Move all your toons to Khyber to see some true Barbarian action in mod9 =)

[Hanam]

Quite true, it's not worth using most of the time. But a 46-48 strength nearly all the time certainly helps.

But the post you were replying to was not about calculations. It was about the real game.

Also find it funny that someone on my ignore list posted a reply about the thread title, one matching probably 4-5 other replies in this thread.. Funny thing is I couldn't change the thread title if I wanted too (not the OP).... but would I if I could? heh.

re: nick, aparently my guild leader grouped with you when you came to Khyber and spoke highly of your skill, and I trust his opinion. So props to you. Move all your toons to Khyber to see some true Barbarian action in mod9 =)


Good, Make sure not to res him when he dies in cometfalls.

[Aspenor]

Good, Make sure not to res him when he dies in cometfalls.

Also make sure to cast barkskin on his characters at every possible opportunity. He loves how his characters look with it.

PS - Nick belongs to Argo (usually lol). Instead, why don't you come to Argo, Shade, so you can experience the pure shenanigans that is Argonnessen.

[Hanam]

Also make sure to cast barkskin on his characters at every possible opportunity. He loves how his characters look with it.

PS - Nick belongs to Argo (usually lol). Instead, why don't you come to Argo, Shade, so you can experience the pure shenanigans that is Argonnessen.



Agreed

[Tulsa_Doom]

Bah Shade took enough of a break from game, you cant have him.

[Hadrian]

But a 46-48 strength nearly all the time certainly helps.

46-48 is perfectly reasonable. I was just pointing out that pretending that you have a reliable 54 str wouldn't really be honest.


But the post you were replying to was not about calculations. It was about the real game.




The real game in which you'd have -50% melee speed in order to get 54 str - my point exactly.

[Nick_RC]

re: nick, aparently my guild leader grouped with you when you came to Khyber and spoke highly of your skill, and I trust his opinion. So props to you. Move all your toons to Khyber to see some true Barbarian action in mod9 =)

You with Free companions or prophets/knights? In all honesty Thelanis was my next port of call and I have played there with some of the fine chaps in legion. But as it stands right now I'm playing a handful of hours due to RL and boredom. Like I said to them I cant commit to much atm. New york in the spring time is a beautiful thing:D

If the fire to play is rekindled il likely have a toon over there as Id like to group with matty, naked and eightball on a more consistent basis. That would be some savage barb action right there lol:D

N

[Fallout]

you guys are wrong. In that screenshot he posted im Amputation. I've run with Axer a lot. It's extremely hard to keep up with him in kills, and he usually has aggro.

He's right that you don't calc glancing blows which is huge, but it's also very important to note that swinging when moving is a good deal faster for THF. Plus the syngery of having 54 str with the 1.5 damage bonus from str for THF is also HUGE.

You have to have the best gear around to keep up with Axer, and even with a pimped TWF on a favored enemy it's **** near impossible.

The swinging while moving is noticably faster. Plus you have to be really active twitch player. Fingers get tired after a while, rather leave it on auto-attack and watch TV on the side :D

[boldarblood]

You with Free companions or prophets/knights? In all honesty Thelanis was my next port of call and I have played there with some of the fine chaps in legion. But as it stands right now I'm playing a handful of hours due to RL and boredom. Like I said to them I cant commit to much atm. New york in the spring time is a beautiful thing:D

If the fire to play is rekindled il likely have a toon over there as Id like to group with matty, naked and eightball on a more consistent basis. That would be some savage barb action right there lol:D

N

Shade is with Free Companions.

Naked been having some computer issues, hasnt been on in about a week. Told him not to download the dirty kobold pr0n.

[Tulsa_Doom]

It would be cool to group with you again Nick. Been playing a bit more consistently now work permitting and fixed a bunch of tech problems that plagued me since my move to Mexico. Indeed a grp with yourself, Axer, Naked and Norg would be great dps. Norg needs to roll a barb! I look forward to playing my wf barb more in mod 9, although Fastie is still my favorite.

[pappo]

Intro:

Enhancements:
Rank - Progression
Level 1:
1 - 1 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost I
2 - 2 [dwarf] - Spell Defense I
3 - 3 [barbarian] - Sprint Boost I
4 - 4 [barbarian] - Extend Rage I
Level 2:
7 - 6 [dwarf] - Axe Damage I
8 - 7 [barbarian] - Extra Rage I
9 - 8 [barbarian] - Power Rage I
Level 3:
11 - 9 [barbarian] - Hardy Rage I
12 - 10 [barbarian] - Power Attack I
14 - 12 [dwarf] - Axe Attack I
Level 4:
17 - 14 [barbarian] - Damage Reduction Boost II
19 - 16 [dwarf] - Spell Defense II
.

I have been following this build with a new toon and was doing fine until level 3 enhancements. It did not offer Axe Attack. Has that been removed recently ??
I took Dwarven Constitution instead, but I just wanted to know if Axe Attack is no longer offered.

[Shade]

I have been following this build with a new toon and was doing fine until level 3 enhancements. It did not offer Axe Attack. Has that been removed recently ??
I took Dwarven Constitution instead, but I just wanted to know if Axe Attack is no longer offered.
It's still available, and will be still available in module 9 also.

It's just a mistake on the guide sorry.. The enhancement planner doesn't take into account some level restrictions and progression and I tried to manually correct what I could but I missed that.. I tried to set it up manually, but obviously theres a small mistake.

Axe attack I is available at level4.. So take it there instead.

Dwarven con is there later, so taking it now shouldn't mess anything up. You should be able to follow the rest of the progression for the most part. But there might be small differences here and there, shouldn't hurt anything =)

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Dwarven_Axe_Attack_I

I will get around to correcting that, and re-do'ing the entire progression to be more accurate, better designed for each level in mind, and go all the way up to level20, shortly after module 9s release. Rightnow the order is mostly good, but there are some small optimizations I could do.

[pappo]

It's still available, and will be still available in module 9 also.

Axe attack I is available at level4.. So take it there instead.

I will get around to correcting that, and re-do'ing the entire progression to be more accurate, better designed for each level in mind, and go all the way up to level20, shortly after module 9s release. Rightnow the order is mostly good, but there are some small optimizations I could do.

Shade - Thanks. I should be level 4 tonight so I will look for it then.
I am having a lot of fun with this toon especially watching his DPS get better and better as I add enhancements and level up. I am really looking forward to getting the level 4 weapons. I will start looking for the fire/cold/acid burst type Greataxes then.

Again - thanks for the build and the reply.

[Shade]

Build updated for Frenzy Berserker.

[Ladywolf]

bump for quick reference

[SINIBYTE]

Mithral Full plate (Hard to get, but even +3 is as good as +5 Full plate)

Am I missing something here? How do you equip full plate without a heavy armor feat?

[Lewcipher]

MITHRAL full plate is medium armor.

[Svetelana]

I like the build but, a question...

If you are lucky enough to land an SoS....why no imp crit?

[foxx]

Agreed



i see yer from seattle. didn't ya know Ghallanda is the official server for the great nth. wet.

[Hanam]

i see yer from seattle. didn't ya know Ghallanda is the official server for the great nth. wet.

brb flood.

[Shade]

I like the build but, a question...

If you are lucky enough to land an SoS....why no imp crit?

I have the sword and this build does indeed have improved critical. I leave the type blank, as it works equally well with blunt as with slash depending on your weapon preference. Personally I have slash.

Sword of shadows is a good weapon, but generally is just a trash mob weapon, and versus trash mobs I tend to use greensteel greataxes for the high crit and burst damage.. They are signicantly faster killers when paired with stunning blow.

[Svetelana]

Gotcha! Thanks Shade!

I totally missed that in the build.

[Silvermane]

What a great build!

Thank you very much for providing it Shade, I had been looking for a solid Non-WF build for a Barb and this is exactly what I wanted.

Level 3 so far and excited to keep going, every level he gets noticeably more powerful in regards to his DPS, and that makes me happy in the pants.

[Carpone]

Very important early on is DR boost and uncanny dodge as well, you should use it non stop whenver your about to engage an enemy - should you run out of them quickly.. Your doing a good job, thats what for there for, dont save them. End up at a shrine with a few uses left and you didnt be aggresive enough.
I know this particular comment is 2 years old so much has changed. Just wondering if you still advocate using DR boost and Uncanny Dodge while leveling up. I assume the updated OP (which doesn't mention Uncanny Dodge or DR Boost) is what enhancements should look like at 20th level, not necessarily what you would might have as you level up.

I love playing this character. Thanks so much for keeping the buildout updated.

[Shade]

I know this particular comment is 2 years old so much has changed. Just wondering if you still advocate using DR boost and Uncanny Dodge while leveling up. I assume the updated OP (which doesn't mention Uncanny Dodge or DR Boost) is what enhancements should look like at 20th level, not necessarily what you would might have as you level up.

I love playing this character. Thanks so much for keeping the buildout updated.

Well I still think DR boost is a great enhancement for level1-14 or so.. But getting the maximum benefit of it requires great timing, skill and often fore-knowledge of the quest at hand.. As such it's difficult to recommend to new players to take it for X lvls, and respec, and also list out 2 sets of enhancements.

Beyond that it is also not possible to fit in the final enhancement setup, mainly due to the stupid requirement of damage boost for FB. If I could go DR boost istead of damage I would. Tho by endgame you get 9/- passive, so 15/- is less of a boost then say at lvl10 when you only have 4-5 so it's not quite as a big of a benefit as it is at the lower lvls.

Also with the smaller group scaling enemies deal less damage now, so unless you run elite allot in 6man groups, it's not a critical enhancement to survive.

But if you did want to make use of it. I'd suggest skipping Frenzy I and it's reqiurements, and maxing out DR boost as you go, then respec around lvl12-13 to get Frenzy II straight up.

Uncanny Dodge on the other hand is a completely free and very powerful ability. I still recommend using it as often as possible and depleting all your using every shrine. You shouldn't skip shrines because you have lots of rages, you should expend the dodges as they almost always help in any encounter with spellcasters, as +4/6 reflex save makes a huge difference.
At the lower lvls, the +4 AC will also help a bit.

PS: Build updated with better notes on Alignment and Enhancement progression.

[Fennario]

I know this particular comment is 2 years old so much has changed. Just wondering if you still advocate using DR boost and Uncanny Dodge while leveling up. I assume the updated OP (which doesn't mention Uncanny Dodge or DR Boost) is what enhancements should look like at 20th level, not necessarily what you would might have as you level up.

I love playing this character. Thanks so much for keeping the buildout updated.

I agree with Shade. Dr boost is a huge asset while leveling up. Make room for it if you can and use it. It is awesome at low - mid level. Even if you only take the first couple of ranks. Just respec it out when your natural dr catches up some.

Examples:

You are level 2 or 3 soloing Ringleader on elite. That ogre at the end hits pretty **** hard for a low level quest on elite. Pop that boost when you fight him for dr 6 instead of dr 1. Might mean the difference between standing toe to toe with him and killing him or you kissing the floor.

You are level 10 or 11 doing Gianthold quests. A lot of those mobs out there hit like trucks. Popping a boost for dr 9 or 12 or 15 when the pug ranger pulls a pack of them really reduces the strain on that pug cleric you are running with.

[Ambulance]

First of all: Thanks for the great build! :) (as well the WF one)
Been running up my dorf up to lvl 11 now and it's been great fun so far. Really looking forward to end-game!

Did you have updates for MOD 10&11 planned as well? Since there's new stuff to get now, maybe there's sth fitting for these builds as well? Personally I didn't get round to have a look at all the new stuff yet, so I'm not sure

[Ambulance]

The only issue with THF in my mind is the 3rd/4th/5th attack being garbage. However a skilled player can avoid ever using them however, I certainly do.

Agreed, if you know how to do it, you can twitch your attacks you'll never (ok, maybe sometimes) end up using any other than the first two attacks. Plus, it's way faster ;)

[pappo]

Agreed, if you know how to do it, you can twitch your attacks you'll never (ok, maybe sometimes) end up using any other than the first two attacks. Plus, it's way faster ;)

What does it mean to "twitch your attacks" ??, and how do you do it ?

[Tulsa_Doom]

Twitching refers to a player manually interrupting the attack chain so that the animation sequence stays in the quicker steps. It was of great use when Turbine still employed the 5th attack animation sequence. Now less so however it still results in a faster amount of attacks per minute. Shade has some videos detailing it and they will show you visually both the technique and difference in speed.

[Ambulance]

What does it mean to "twitch your attacks" ??, and how do you do it ?

have a look here

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223202

[Shade]

Did you have updates for MOD 10&11 planned as well? Since there's new stuff to get now, maybe there's sth fitting for these builds as well? Personally I didn't get round to have a look at all the new stuff yet, so I'm not sure

There haven't really been any updates to the Barbarian class in the last few updates.. I was hoping for some bug fixes, but no it's all the same. The only bug they cared to fix was the supreme cleave not hurting us, so thats fixed in update 3 with stupid screaming and sound effects added.

You mean new loot?
Yea there's a few new items that are nice, but nothing really Barbarian specific. Only things of notes I picked up lately are Epic Xuum (extremely powerful and equally hard to aquire) and Axiomatic Burst Rahls Might (not too hard to get situational weapon). New stuff like this is generally discussed in the loot threads/guides and players looking for upgrades generally will look there.

[Ambulance]

New stuff like this is generally discussed in the loot threads/guides and players looking for upgrades generally will look there.

I know but since you included gear in your build post too, I thought I could ask you as well ;)

[fumezy]

Hey shade, thanks for the amazing guide for a new player like myself and probably many others who have come to love the barbarian class. One thing I'd like to ask is that I have somehow realized that I've accidentally set my alignment on my dwarf barb to neutral good instead of true or chaotic neutral. Some have said that alignments don't mean much but I would prefer to know the full extent of my mistake. So far I've only played my barbarian for a week or so and can consider rerolling but the idea of repeating Korthos Island is nauseating.

Thanks in advance and other opinions are always welcomed.

[pappo]

So far I've only played my barbarian for a week or so and can consider rerolling but the idea of repeating Korthos Island is nauseating.
.

You know that you don't have to do Korthos at all if you don't want to. Once you are created, tell the first guy to skip the tutorial and when you are taken to the Korthos square, just go down to the dock and tell the woman to take you to Stormreach and you can start right out with harbor quests.

[pappo]

Modify your con/str enhancements as you go to try to keep your stats even, as odd numbers don't benefit you - for example if you had a str tome - modify power rage to keep your end str even, same for con/hearty rage, and if you get really high con like +6 item and +2 tome - you can then drop some extend rage and still end up perma raged and have a few more points for other things like more spell defense.

Shade - I don't understand how to keep stats even, as you say above. I am following your Mod 9 update with my barb - who is now level 8, about to be 9. I am taking the enhancements you recommend, but do not understand how you can tell if con/str enhancements are even, and do not see how to modify power rage.

[Ambulance]

Shade - I don't understand how to keep stats even, as you say above. I am following your Mod 9 update with my barb - who is now level 8, about to be 9. I am taking the enhancements you recommend, but do not understand how you can tell if con/str enhancements are even, and do not see how to modify power rage.

just rage yourself and have a look at your stats. when you see that your str is uneven, you know that you have to get another power rage enhancement. if you don't have any more left for the moment, you can reset them and use one less

same goes for con stat

[pappo]

just rage yourself and have a look at your stats. when you see that your str is uneven, you know that you have to get another power rage enhancement. if you don't have any more left for the moment, you can reset them and use one less

same goes for con stat

Ambulance - thanks for the explanation on str

[Ambulance]

New Ultimate DPS stats in the endgame battle (vs the elite CR38 pit fiend):
Click Here (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1909/4million.jpg)


where's the pit fiend? ^^

[Shade]

where's the pit fiend? ^^

heh yea.. I've moved on from my elite pit fiend hunting. Maybe I'll do a new one when we get to fight his true epic form :D

Updated with newer stats.

[joneb1999]

I read at the beginning of this thread supreme cleave didnt work. Forgive me for not reading every post as ther are many now but please can someone say if supreme cleave works now?

[Shade]

I read at the beginning of this thread supreme cleave didnt work. Forgive me for not reading every post as ther are many now but please can someone say if supreme cleave works now?

Yea it was fixed.

[Booze4Life]

Question for Shade (& others with excellent Barb knowledge):

I have been 32pt Pally, then gone 34pt Fighter & now plan on going 36pt Barb.

My plan is to re-inc a second time to a Dwarven THF Barb.

I have Min2 G.axe, Pos/Pos/Pos G.axe & a T2 Light2 G.axe being used already on the fighter.

My idea is to farm to get suitable items ready to step into as the barb.

But my question is:-

Do I go

Str - 18
Dex - 12
Con - 20
Int - 8
Wis - 10
Cha - 6

or go

Str - 18
Dex - 14
Con - 20
Int - 8
Wis - 8
Cha - 6

Any advice will be more than welcome.

[Consumer]

My plan is to re-inc a second time to a Dwarven THF Barb.

I'm gonna say WF or human for the race. Human gets you both stunning blow, toughness and an extra skill point per level, WF gets you one of the two feats and higher DPS, Dwarf gets you one of the feats and less DPS than a WF.

Unless the build is for flavour which imo would be a waste with 36pt.

[ragwa1]

Rolling the wf thf.

Good job, Shade.

[Khellendros13]

Shade,

Just a few quick questions as I would like your input.

I TR'd my Dwarf Kensai into Barbarian the day of Update 3. I have not touched him due to the TR bug, so he is at level 3 still.

Since I get a "free" 2nd TR without doing the first TR, I have 36 points to use and 2 past life feats.

The Fighter past life gives me +1DC on combat feats and +1 to attack. 2nd life I can do the same, and have a mean stunning blow and trip. IMO this is better than +1 dmg from the Monk past life. Would you agree?

I have banked +1 str, +1 con, +3 con, +2 wis, +1 int tomes. Spectral Gloves, Leviks bracers, hound shield, Carnifex, Maelstrom, Tier2 pos maul, Madstone boots and GS HP cloak triple earth.

Given that, I thought these stats would be good:

Dwarf Barbarian
Str 18
Dex 12 - +1 tome, +5 spectal gloves
Con 18
Int 9 - +1 tome and Jump 18, balance 8, UMD 11, spot 11, tumble 4 (blur scrolls between rages, raise dead) +2 tome when I have silver flame pots
Wis 10 +2 tome for will save
Cha 9 +2 tome for sinking silver flame pots while solo

[VilanNarrth]

I started a character based on this build last night and just running it up to level 2 I'm having fun. Since I'm using the 32pt build instead of adding the extra all to CON I added some to INT to get a boost in number of skill points. Thanks for providing the build.

[nocturnalg]

This sounds like a fun idea so I decided to make this barb as my first main character.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Knocturnal The Outlaw
Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 402
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 7
Will: 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 18 22 24
Dexterity 12 12 12
Constitution 16 16 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 10 10 10
Charisma 6 6 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 12.5 16.5
Bluff -2 -2 -2
Concentration 3 4 4
Diplomacy -2 -1.5 -1.5
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -2 2.5 2.5
Heal 0 0 0
Hide 1 1 1
Intimidate -2 -2 -2
Jump 6 18 18
Listen 0 0 0
Move Silently 1 1 1
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 1
Spot 2 11.5 11.5
Swim 4 7 7
Tumble 2 2 2
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Rage
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Indomitable Will
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Might
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III





I wasn't sure which levels DR/CON/Saves would be important, so I focused on them later. Not too worried since I can respec every 3 days, but hopefully this gets me through.

[Shade]

The Fighter past life gives me +1DC on combat feats and +1 to attack. 2nd life I can do the same, and have a mean stunning blow and trip. IMO this is better than +1 dmg from the Monk past life. Would you agree?
Yea



Given that, I thought these stats would be good:

Dwarf Barbarian
Str 18
Dex 12 - +1 tome, +5 spectal gloves
Con 18
Int 9 - +1 tome and Jump 18, balance 8, UMD 11, spot 11, tumble 4 (blur scrolls between rages, raise dead) +2 tome when I have silver flame pots
Wis 10 +2 tome for will save
Cha 9 +2 tome for sinking silver flame pots while solo

Yea looks cool.

[Khellendros13]

Yea


Yea looks cool.

Thanks...had to TR again due to the end reward bug. Went WF Barb and level 16 now. So much fun with a min2 greataxe. Tanked VoD last night and it was a blast. Only another 1.4mill XP to cap... :|

[Cam_Neely]

Love the build, used it on my first DDO Character, and he is currently lv9, and I love it.

Question: You suggest the +X Mithral Full plate for up to level 8 (if you can get it), but soon after that level it seems that AC becomes useless for the Barb, relying on DR and a massive HP pool to stay alive. Do you suggest just going with Robes, and forgetting about AC, at some point? If so, at what point about, and what type of robes should I be keeping my eyes open for?

Thanks

[Shade]

Love the build, used it on my first DDO Character, and he is currently lv9, and I love it.

Question: You suggest the +X Mithral Full plate for up to level 8 (if you can get it), but soon after that level it seems that AC becomes useless for the Barb, relying on DR and a massive HP pool to stay alive. Do you suggest just going with Robes, and forgetting about AC, at some point? If so, at what point about, and what type of robes should I be keeping my eyes open for?

Thanks

Yea if you don't mind the looks, robes are better as you get no armor check penalty. Best ones would be ones with guards or deathblock.

Another nice set of low lvl armor recently surfaced: Heavy deneith chain, lvl5. (from the new sentinels series) It's Lifeshield armor. Lifeshield is quite a powerful ability (15 temp hp for 1 min, at a 10% proc rate per hit) at lvl5-10, so I highly recommend that actaully. It has quite a high armor check limiting your jump, balance and such, but the lifeshield makes it worth it.

The main goals past some +5 mith fp or the heavy chain become:
Breastplate of Destruction (ML:14 from the hound raid) then later:
Dragontouched Armor (ML:16 from the reavers refuge - could be robe, vestment, leather or breasplate, doesn't matter much)
And finally end with epic armor (Redscale and/or Marilith Chain)

[Cam_Neely]

ok, new equipment question. This time, weapons.

I'm now close to 11, and use Carniflex 90% of the time, and have a Greatclub of chaos and good for Skelly's(something like that, 1d6 extra to non good and to non chaotic). I think its time for me to switch to some bursting weapons, but not sure how to determine what is actually better. This is my only character, so my bank is limited. I'm getting IC:Slashing soon, so I don tthink I need keen. It seems that not much is resistant to Acid, so should I look for something with that?

If you had to suggest 1 weapon would it be?

Thanks
Sosrey
EDIT
ie. i got a http://ddo.mmodb.com/items/maelstrom-866.php
Yes, I think the DPS is higher if you take the d6s into play, do how do you go about estimates which one is useful. Say for example 40% of the game is resistant to frost, then that lowers the DPS.

Can I assume that anything of good hits close to 100% of the time, as I'm fighting the evil of the world? But how much is lawful? So many questions, so little time :)

[BlackSteel]

If you had to suggest 1 weapon would it be?



1 weapon instead of a golf bag? sure:

run the dragon raid both for experience and cross your fingers for a sword of shadows

or

grab a +5 flaming or lightning greataxe of righteousness (essentially a +7 weapon) this will allow you to take more power attack enhancements.

greater banes or the carniflex are preferable until you land an SoS or shroud weapon, but the above +5 is relatively cheap, usable at lvl 12, and is sufficient

[Cam_Neely]

Sorry, might not have made my question clear, but I did not mean one end-game weapon (ie SoS) but something that would be a jack of all trade for the high midlevel quests (11-16). By then I hope to have 'leveled up' my bank account, and have a few different weapons depending on the situation.

ie Will I see a ton of animals, so maybe an animal bane weapon? or will I not be seeing much with Ice resistance, so a bursting ice Axe, then go back to Carni when I do meet up with an Ice creature? I hear gianthold will be taking a fair bit of our time.

Thanks
Sosrey

[Rabscuttle]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/SwordofShadow.jpg

The un-epic version of Sword of Shadow is usable at level 10, and is a solidly good weapon. If you get it and outgrow it, hold onto it for hopes of upgrading to epic sometime in the future.

For banes, good choices at your level would be giant, undead, and maybe elemental. Evil outsider in a few more levels.

For elemental/alignment damage, holy(burst) and pure good hit a good portion of the mobs in the game. Electrical hits almost everything, though almost nothing is particularly vulnerable to it. Acid is a good second choice.

Other good weapons to have in your bag are ghost touch, vorpal, and vertigo if you use trip (you should).

Start running shroud as soon as you can get into groups, and start saving up your ingredients. It'll take a couple months to save up all the larges for your tier three, but you can get tier two much quicker. Once you do that, it will quickly obsolete your other weapons :)

[BlackSteel]

Sorry, might not have made my question clear, but I did not mean one end-game weapon (ie SoS) but something that would be a jack of all trade for the high midlevel quests (11-16). By then I hope to have 'leveled up' my bank account, and have a few different weapons depending on the situation.

ie Will I see a ton of animals, so maybe an animal bane weapon? or will I not be seeing much with Ice resistance, so a bursting ice Axe, then go back to Carni when I do meet up with an Ice creature? I hear gianthold will be taking a fair bit of our time.

Thanks
Sosrey

the SoS is usable at lvl 10, and for a high base damage character (fighter/barb) is one of the best weapons to use even compared to shroud weapons if the mob has no fort/no DR. (a shroud weapon is better with common autocrit scenarios due to higher base die and bursting effects)

the epic version is just gravy on top of an already superb weapon

[Shade]

ok, new equipment question. This time, weapons.

I'm now close to 11, and use Carniflex 90% of the time, and have a Greatclub of chaos and good for Skelly's(something like that, 1d6 extra to non good and to non chaotic). I think its time for me to switch to some bursting weapons, but not sure how to determine what is actually better. This is my only character, so my bank is limited. I'm getting IC:Slashing soon, so I don tthink I need keen. It seems that not much is resistant to Acid, so should I look for something with that?

If you had to suggest 1 weapon would it be?


Really carnifex is as good an all around weapon as your gonna get unless your do what I do: Get some greater banes. It's not like you need to carry a big "golf bag" tho. There's really only a few common enemies (undead, giant, Evil outsder) , and some that aren't so common I list below but good for leveling. Also I just answered this in my other guide (WF one) here is what I said:

I like to use a flaming burst greataxe on any trolls I might encounter to cut off there regen. EG: Stormcleave, Redwillow, Gwylans stand, etc. So you want one either lvl6 or lvl8.
After that at level10 I tend to stick with the carnifex unless I get lucky enough to have a greater bane at that lvl (usually I dont, so I have to wait until 12)
At 12 I have a nice line up
Greater orc bane - Feats or Famine is one of the best xp/min quests in the game at this level, and its all orcs. So this is one of my favoute lvling axes.
Greater Giant Bane - Madstone crater is nice xp, as well as Gianthold Tor, and Gianthold ruins in general.
Greater goblinoid bane - Similarly Cabal for one is nice xp, and all goblins.
Greater Undead - Generally zombie type undead are really quite easy, so if you can go for a blunt type one. Either maul or greatclub works fine since the multipler doesnt matter on undead (well for non-burst ones)
Greater Evil outsider, or just a good holy silver. This should serve you throught the higher levels (around 16+) until you can craft up a triple pos/mineral2.
Greater Dragon bane, if you start running the Dragon raid or Tor much before you manage to get your t3 greensteel, be sure to find one of these.

Best all arounder beside carn that works on most everything tho besides raid loot tho...
high + Shocking burst of maiming. Average dmg is simlar to carnifex, but much superior for targets with fort, and a higher + will mean more DPS vs some higher AC targets that you will start to miss with power attack with a +2 wep (carn)

After that it's shroud weapons.

Regarding the SoS: Your more likely to get a tier3 greensteel greataxe before you ever get this, and a T3 GS greataxe does more DPS for most standard things, like 0% fort, 0 elemental resist tagets.

[Rabscuttle]

Before getting an epic SoS, are there any non-mineral2 weapons that will get enough combat usage to justify having improved crit? I currently have stunning blow, and am using a min2 maul and greataxe. Trading imp crit for toughness seems to be a good choice for my point of progression, even without taking the toughness enhancements.

[Shade]

Before getting an epic SoS, are there any non-mineral2 weapons that will get enough combat usage to justify having improved crit? I currently have stunning blow, and am using a min2 maul and greataxe. Trading imp crit for toughness seems to be a good choice for my point of progression, even without taking the toughness enhancements.

Lightning Strike, Triple fire, Triple Ice, Triple Earth, Steam2, Freezing Ice.. All very powerful choices that need IC.
Non GS: Epic Xuum, +3/4/5 holy Greater Banes.

Besides that..
Respecs at level17+ cost somewhere in the 500K-1000K platinum range. (or allot of turbine points)

IC is a must have.
Toughness really doesn't make much of a difference 95% of the time. What you lose to gain the AP to make the feat better also needs to be factored.

[Cam_Neely]

Ah tk you all very much. Looks like I'll keep combing the AH for a good deal on a few useful Bane Items and start reading up more on the crafting element of DDO.

[pappo]

Really carnifex is as good an all around weapon as your gonna get unless your do what I do: Get some greater banes. It's not like you need to carry a big "golf bag" tho. There's really only a few common enemies (undead, giant, Evil outsder) , and some that aren't so common I list below but good for leveling.

Shade - I have a question concerning how much damage I should expect to see from my Level 9 dwarf version of your build. I was running Shadow King in Necro last night with a +3 Ghost Touch greataxe and with a rage pot, and rage, and power attack on I was only seeing damage numbers around 10 - 25 with the occasional crit damage of 75 - 99. Is that low or is that expected at my level 9 when only using a +3 Axe on wraiths ?

Thanks for this great build. I am having a good time leveling him.
I do have a Maelstrom but have not gotten a lucky drop for a Carnifex in Delara's yet.

[Shade]

Shade - I have a question concerning how much damage I should expect to see from my Level 9 dwarf version of your build. I was running Shadow King in Necro last night with a +3 Ghost Touch greataxe and with a rage pot, and rage, and power attack on I was only seeing damage numbers around 10 - 25 with the occasional crit damage of 75 - 99. Is that low or is that expected at my level 9 when only using a +3 Axe on wraiths ?

Thanks for this great build. I am having a good time leveling him.
I do have a Maelstrom but have not gotten a lucky drop for a Carnifex in Delara's yet.

Wraiths and all other undead are immune to critical hits. So hitting them for 75-99 is insanely high =)

But yea 10 damage should be impossible unless your hitting a target with DR.
At lvl9 your str should be
18 +2 lvls = 20, +4 item = 24, +6 rage = 30, +2 rage pot = 32 (+11)
That's +16 dmg
Power attack +12 dmg
Axe dmg 1 +1 dmg
=+29 dmg, +3 greataxe =+32 dmg
Greataxe d12 , roll a 1.. = minimum dmg 33, maximum 44
Perhaps you forgot to toggle on power attack ,or rage ran out at a bad time.

[p3n1x0r]

following this build and im starting to see something about weapon choice.

ive collected a nice collection of greataxes and swords from my other barb/fighter toons...theyre chaotic good, and ive saved some of the best holy/PG weapons

im seeing by going chaotic neutral....i cant use those sweet PG weapons....what to do?

ive got stuff thatll work still, and i figure by endgame he will have mostly GS, but im just like wow. i might reroll this toon as chaotic good.

whats the advantage of this alignment if i cant use my holy and PG weapons?

[Sweyn]

following this build and im starting to see something about weapon choice.

ive collected a nice collection of greataxes and swords from my other barb/fighter toons...theyre chaotic good, and ive saved some of the best holy/PG weapons

im seeing by going chaotic neutral....i cant use those sweet PG weapons....what to do?

ive got stuff thatll work still, and i figure by endgame he will have mostly GS, but im just like wow. i might reroll this toon as chaotic good.

whats the advantage of this alignment if i cant use my holy and PG weapons?

There are some good items in the game, specifically the Litany of the Dead (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Trinkets/LitanyoftheDead.jpg) and the Marilith Chain (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/MarilithChain.jpg), that give you a negative level when you use them. Also, being True Neutral makes you immune to some alignment based spells. With GS being the best weapons out there, endgame not being able to use Pure Good is irrelevant. Endgame, Chaotic Good just offers very little.

[p3n1x0r]

im still not convinced or swayed.

so im going true neutral so a few items end game dont give me a neg level...vs taking a good trait so i can use some sweet weapons along the way....i mean what am i gonna be using against those orthons and devils in the devils battlefield....one of my toons has a holy greataxe all 3 tiers, and its bloody powerful against most everything ive come across

can i get some more input? please

[Sweyn]

im still not convinced or swayed.

so im going true neutral so a few items end game dont give me a neg level...vs taking a good trait so i can use some sweet weapons along the way....i mean what am i gonna be using against those orthons and devils in the devils battlefield....one of my toons has a holy greataxe all 3 tiers, and its bloody powerful against most everything ive come across

can i get some more input? please

You will still be able to use your Holy GS greataxe, alignment has nothing to do with it. IMO, you should build your toons for endgame; building a toon for lvling purposes, which you may only spend a few weeks on, seems silly considering you may spend months.. or even years at endgame, therefore, build your toons for endgame. There is a really small difference, kind of unnoticable, it really isn't game breaking what your alignment is. You just asked what the advantages were and I told you, there really is no more input needed

[Shade]

im still not convinced or swayed.

so im going true neutral so a few items end game dont give me a neg level...vs taking a good trait so i can use some sweet weapons along the way....i mean what am i gonna be using against those orthons and devils in the devils battlefield....one of my toons has a holy greataxe all 3 tiers, and its bloody powerful against most everything ive come across

can i get some more input? please
I think another very big thing is incoming damage.

As a barbarian, you will take allot of damage in certain areas, and if you select good as your alignment, well you could take ever more.. Which can be a problem.

A good example is the demon queen raid. She uses unholy swords - these only work on good aligned chars, so TN and CN barbs can tank her fine, while good ones take massive damage - possible more then they can handel.
Additionally the archers in there use unholy too. And she also cats unholy blight - which does work vs neutral, but you take significantly less damage from it.
Unholy blight is actaully quite a commonly cast spell by many enemies in the endgame.

And in teh desert in general - almost all undead archers use unholy bows.. 2d6 extra dmg on every arrow can add up.

DQ also uses anarchich true chaos weapons.. So chaoatic takes even less damage from her (tho TN only takes d6 from True chaos)

Im not away of any enemies that use axiomatic weapons, but I really havent played a chaotic character very much so there might be some. But if not, its the best defensive alignment as a few enemies do use true chaos.

And as far as weaponry goes..
TN and CN can use every good single end game weapon - including all good named, shroud GS and epic weapons (well two handers) in the game - you need CN for the epic chaosblade for a TWF khopesh build.
Anything good will also suffer a negative level with certain shroud weapon - uncommonly used types, anything you craft "unholy" onto. Doesn't matter much being you can opt to simply not craft unholy and select soemthing else, just a note.

[pappo]

Wraiths and all other undead are immune to critical hits. So hitting them for 75-99 is insanely high =)

But yea 10 damage should be impossible unless your hitting a target with DR.
At lvl9 your str should be
18 +2 lvls = 20, +4 item = 24, +6 rage = 30, +2 rage pot = 32 (+11)
That's +16 dmg
Power attack +12 dmg
Axe dmg 1 +1 dmg
=+29 dmg, +3 greataxe =+32 dmg
Greataxe d12 , roll a 1.. = minimum dmg 33, maximum 44
Perhaps you forgot to toggle on power attack ,or rage ran out at a bad time.

My bad, you are right. I had my quest wrong. I did not mean against the undead, I meant against non-undead creatures. Thanks for showing how the damage is computed. I had never seen it laid out like that.

[Ollamas]

Hey i've been following the guide but im a little confused, what do you put the extra ability points on str? Also I made myself human what should I get from the humans specialties

[Shade]

Hey i've been following the guide but im a little confused, what do you put the extra ability points on str? Also I made myself human what should I get from the humans specialties

Yea all level up ability points into strength.

Being you cannot stack human dmg boost with barbarian, theres not much point in getting the versatiliy.
However you should get human adaptilbity, str and con. And max out human healing amp. The rest should be similar to my guide. Perhaps use left over points in more con/extend rage since you start lower.

[Carik]

Shade, do you recommend the Warforged: Two Handed Fighting enhancements?

[lemonarian]

Shade, do you recommend the Warforged: Two Handed Fighting enhancements?

Would be kinda hard to take 'em on a dwarf... Anyway, this enhancement line is bugged. Doesn't do anything for you at the moment.

[Carik]

Bleh - wrong thread!

Learn from my fail and don't have too many threads open at the same time!

[skyjuice]

With the THF chain getting some nerf-hate from Turb...think temporary feats to get would have to be Toughness and Stun blow.

[ImaginaryLogic]

I noted earlier on in this thread that someone was soloing stuff 3 levels above him on elite.... Yet i've followed this build quite closely, but can't seem to deal enough damage to solo something even 1 level above me.... is there something i'm doing wrong?

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/melanril/

[quityourjobs]

I noted earlier on in this thread that someone was soloing stuff 3 levels above him on elite.... Yet i've followed this build quite closely, but can't seem to deal enough damage to solo something even 1 level above me.... is there something i'm doing wrong?

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/melanril/

Um... maybe max out strength?

[Hydro]

Um... maybe max out strength?

Yeah a barbarian starting with less then 18 STR should not even be allowed...

[ImaginaryLogic]

Yeah a barbarian starting with less then 18 STR should not even be allowed...

i know i maxed it on creation, i think i got hit by a poison or something. but thanks for pointing it out.

[stoolcannon]

I noted earlier on in this thread that someone was soloing stuff 3 levels above him on elite.... Yet i've followed this build quite closely, but can't seem to deal enough damage to solo something even 1 level above me.... is there something i'm doing wrong?

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/melanril/

I've been running this build for a few days now and I can zerg pretty much anything up to level 9 without even stopping to think about what I'm doing. (I'm level 6)

Tips:

1. Pots - Keep 100 Cure moderate at this level (once higher get cure serious for combat situations and cure moderate for non combat - keeps price down)
1.1 Barkskin - Keep 100 at all times. Never run without it
1.2 Heroism never hurts
1.3 Haste Can't beat those extra swings
1.4 Remove curse
1.5 Neut Poison
1.6 Lesser Restoration
1.7 Rage - For normal areas where you don't really need the extra DPS (i.e non boss fights) or the rare case when you run out of rages

2. Your gear needs work. At level 6 you should have a +2 str item (Bracers are a good candidate for now and inexpensive at around 2k in the AH) and if possible get some +3 mithril plate. AC wont matter later in the game but right now it's handy for leveling and zerging on solo. For instance, on normal I can run the delaras chain with a hireling cleric in about 40 mins and almost nothing but casters can damage me significantly (Archers hit me for 1-2 damage max) and I am able to keep frenzy up at all times. I very rarely even touch my heal pots unless the hireling gets left behind from sprint boost. You should also be able to get a +2 con item and a Voice of the Master to boost your saves a bit

3. For delaras if you can find it, get yourself a +1 shock maul and a +1 holy dwarven axe and switch out. Holy axe for Ghostly skeletons cuts through them like butter and the maul wrecks everything else. If you could find a holy maul you would never need to switch (the reason I mention this is Delara's is fantastic XP and you need a carnifex anyway). I'm switching out less often now though and just letting Frenzy take care of the damage for me. Still takes an extra hit or so but it's less annoying than switching axe/hammer during combat every room

4. Start hitting slayers in your level range. I can kill over 100 in Searing Heights in under 30 minutes and you'll get explorers are rares along the way. Decent ROI for XP and basic loot. Three Barrel is another great area although it's more spread out so takes longer to find stuff to kill

5. You should be able to get a +1 or +2 bursting greataxe at level 6. Check the AH regularly and you'll find one for a low price. I got a +2 flaming burst for 5k to replace my starter axe

6. Once you get carnifex the damage starts to get silly. I crit often and in an area like Searing Heights very few monsters can take more than 1-2 swings and cleave + frenzy really helps bring mobs down fast.

7. If you're strapped for cash and have a character at level 9 or above start doing Spectral Glove runs. I know some folks will think I'm nuts for selling mine but they went on the AH for 750k in a 2 day auction. I got a 2nd set to replace them for my pali within a couple of weeks so its a good way to get yourself off to a good start with cash so you can afford pots and other gear to level new toons.

8. Make friends with a haggle-bot. Really keeps the price of pots affordable

9. This should go without saying but kill casters first. Surprisingly a lot of people don't seem to realize this very basic tactic. Melee combatants have nothing for you but since you're not going to be running with resists at this level the casters can hurt you quickly.

I'm still very new to the game with only about 2 months behind me so far but the above tactics work well for pretty much any toon with the exception of the gear.

Special thanks to Shade for taking the time out to write-up this fantastic build. I've got a capped paladin, level 12 Wizard, Level 7 Rogue and lvl 6 barb and this is by far the most fun to run. I run with other level 9 barbs and barb TR's who cant keep up with my kill count and still take more damage than I do (thanks for a small focus on AC during the early part of the game - AC = 26 with Barkskin while raged).

First post btw so **** all over me appropriately.

[TheFl0w]

Gawd, love the barbarian :D

I got 1 question about gear mentioned in the build. This was said to get:

Intro: Mithral Full plate (Hard to get, but even +3 is as good as +5 Full plate, and while armor class tends not to be a very important stat of a barbarian, it can help you allot if you are low lvl and new to the game still learning how to dodge and earn enough coin for potions)

But as far as i can see, barbarian dwarfs aren't proficient. Isn't that a problem?

Cheers,

Flow

[Riekan]

Mithril fullplate is medium armor, so barbarians are proficient with it. I usually run with mith fullplate until around level 8 or 10 and then switch to something like a robe of heavy fortification or something else where the extra benefit outweighs the minimal AC your getting from plate. Then, once you get into the higher levels, switch to your dragonscale, or dragontouched, or Marilith Chain, or whatever you're running for end game.

[stoolcannon]

Just hit level 14 and I'm still having an absolute blast with this build.

I've been 1st in kills in literally every single quest I've run so far with one exception. Yesterday I took 2nd to a level 18 dark monk in Ritual Sacrifice.

This build does enough DPS that I entered vale at level 12 with my trusty hireling and wiped the entire zone in about 45 minutes.

I couldn't come close to that on my paladin at level 12 nor my wizard (of course now at level 18 my wizard is pretty unstoppable just about everywhere - hireling or no).

This build isn't overly complex and it relies largely on player skill to be truly effective but it truly does stand the test of time. I love it.

I'l be TRing my paladin into a half orc following pretty similar guidelines to this build as soon as the new update comes out.

[hdogan]

I'l be TRing my paladin into a half orc following pretty similar guidelines to this build as soon as the new update comes out.
I was thinking about what Shade think about Half-Orc Barbarian build... Will it be new Shade's Max DPS Build?

[Consumer]

I was thinking about what Shade think about Half-Orc Barbarian build... Will it be new Shade's Max DPS Build?

The pure build isn't and won't be max DPS.

[stoolcannon]

The pure build isn't and won't be max DPS.

Judging by what I've read on these boards the difference between "max" DPS across the top builds varies by a very tiny margin and is a mere formality.

Judging by what I;ve experienced in game running this build the difference between it and the other builds I've run with is substantial.

I'd also love to see what barb build out there gets more DPS by electing to not stay pure. I haven't seen one I thought was worth creating yet.

[gara-xxx]

well Shade has a lot of videos showing his max dps while your multi "awesome "dps builds are plain paper things,stop being such geeks & just enjoy the game

[pappo]

well Shade has a lot of videos showing his max dps while your multi "awesome "dps builds are plain paper things,stop being such geeks & just enjoy the game

Plus to you gara-xxx, it is just a game. Too many number crunchers "tweaking" the DPS stats all the time. Just get out there, hack-n-slash or toss a spell, and enjoy the game. Not too many things like this that you can enjoy for this low a price.

[Consumer]

well Shade has a lot of videos showing his max dps while your multi "awesome "dps builds are plain paper things,stop being such geeks & just enjoy the game

Except those of us that post the builds have played multiple melees. You call us geeks and yet here you are spending your time posting nothing of use to anybody. You even went as far as to necro the thread just to post your worthless insults.

You're the type of player that is still asking questions and we are the ones answering for you.

[Eistander]

With this thread somehow making it back to the limelight, people need to remember that this build is over 3 years old.. to mention that it stood the test of time as an easy to make, easy to play barbarian build, shows how effective it is. Sure, it might not be as "good" as an epic'd, fully tomed and decked out in epics twf horc.. but for anyone else, it's a mighty fine build, Honestly doesn't require anything too outlandish (wanted to fit that in somewhere!) to work properly. Anything else over and above simply adds to it.

I know I had done this build a long time ago, but since redid the toon that shared this build into a dorf Kensai and I am having a blast with it. I might revisit this build (I mean, it's simple enough to start with, so why not?) as a half-orc and go to town. For its simplicity, it really cannot be beat.

[pappo]

With this thread somehow making it back to the limelight, people need to remember that this build is over 3 years old.. to mention that it stood the test of time as an easy to make, easy to play barbarian build, shows how effective it is. Sure, it might not be as "good" as an epic'd, fully tomed and decked out in epics twf horc.. but for anyone else, it's a mighty fine build, Honestly doesn't require anything too outlandish (wanted to fit that in somewhere!) to work properly. Anything else over and above simply adds to it.

I know I had done this build a long time ago, but since redid the toon that shared this build into a dorf Kensai and I am having a blast with it. I might revisit this build (I mean, it's simple enough to start with, so why not?) as a half-orc and go to town. For its simplicity, it really cannot be beat.

Nice try Consumer, but you are not going to bait me into "flame city".

Eistander - Great comments. I have been playing this build and I really enjoy it. He is fast, and does great DPS. I went with the Dwarf and am glad I did. I would be interested in seeing how you half-orc him.

[stoolcannon]

Eistander - Great comments. I have been playing this build and I really enjoy it. He is fast, and does great DPS. I went with the Dwarf and am glad I did. I would be interested in seeing how you half-orc him.

Agreed on the great comments. This build has REALLY stood the test of time. I run it with minor mods to gear and enhancements and it's stellar. Not difficult to play, tons of dps, tons of kills, can tank anything and extremely effective in epics.

Hard to beat. The build, combined with the fact that I'm pretty **** good at playing it leaves me being a top contributor to most quests and raids I run. I love it and will be making some mods to it to adapt it to half orc here after four more shrouds.

[grodon9999]

I don't have one of these but I run with a bunch of guys who do. They get the job done.

[MeliCat]

My 1st TR of my this my first level 20, is now half orc and at level 8. Still loving those big numbers...

[stainer]

My 1st TR of my this my first level 20, is now half orc and at level 8. Still loving those big numbers...

This was my 3rd character to reach 20. When I want to see gigantic numbers, I run it. I still don't have the knosts ring.

[MeliCat]

This was my 3rd character to reach 20. When I want to see gigantic numbers, I run it. I still don't have the knosts ring.

:) They're fun aren't they? I got the ring on his 20th. I have the WF other version too as yet un-TRed. The WF version got *his* ring on his 2nd run before he got his belt - he's been quite a lucky toon - madstone's first run. Took him a while to get his leviks but that doesn't so much as affect his damage output as rather my friend guildie healer's moaning output :P

Should be interesting when I get him back to 20 again...

[stoolcannon]

:) They're fun aren't they? I got the ring on his 20th. I have the WF other version too as yet un-TRed. The WF version got *his* ring on his 2nd run before he got his belt - he's been quite a lucky toon - madstone's first run. Took him a while to get his leviks but that doesn't so much as affect his damage output as rather my friend guildie healer's moaning output :P

Should be interesting when I get him back to 20 again...

Mind sharing your enhancement choices with the Half Orc version? I'd like to see what others are thinking in that regard.

I've also been very lucky with gear. He's 3 months old now and I've got:
Knost's Set
Bloodstone
Epic Antique
Lit II GA
Levik's
Tumbleweed
Spectral's
Epic Mabar Cloak
Minos
DRagontouched (+5 Resist, Salt, EG) (+5 Resist, Magma, Enervation) (and a 3rd set I'm working on)
Marilith chain (as of yet un-epiced)
Epic House D Chain
Madstone Boots

Not bad for a toon that doesn't have 20 of any raid yet. I also got my knost's and encrusted on my 2nd run. The whole set! Special thanks to BigJunk of Ghallanda for talking the group into just passing it to me after he had witnessed the epic sh*tstorm I had just gone through in Epic Chrono on my wizard and knowing what a bad mood I was in :)

[Chai]

Still bantering back and forth about max DPS eh?

Shade didnt care about charts and calcs, he cared about application. I agreed with him maybe 50% of the time, but his method of putting his money where his mouth is, was the best I have seen on these boards. If I pulled his card on him saying something worked the way it did, I found a video further down in the same thread showing his application and how he made it work.

People can go back and forth about the numbers all they want, but their toons either perform the way the numbers say they do, or they dont. Videos showing it being done remove all doubt. Application rules your face.

Me: Pffft sins on elite? Dream on. This toon might be good sustainable DPS but it cant wipe its own arse in the self healing dpt. Do you heal ~800 points of damage with CSW pots? :p

Shade: Heres my video of me soloing sins on elite on my barb.

All the other moaners in the thread: /crickets chirping.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

...

Enhancements:
Enhancements: Type - Name Rank - (Cost)
First off Prereqs for Berserker:
[barbarian] - Damage Boost IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Attack III (6)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker I (4)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker II (2)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker III (2)
Now onto others:
[barbarian] - Sprint Boost I (2) (Get it early on, it rocks)
[barbarian] - Hardy Rage II (3) (Rank 3 generally not worth it)
[barbarian] - Extra Rage I (2) (Not sure this build can afford rank 2/3)
[barbarian] - Extend Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Improved Damage Reduction II (6)
[barbarian] - Constitution I (2)
[barbarian] - Might Capstone (2)
[dwarf] - Dwarven Spell Defense III (6)
[dwarf] - Dwarven Axe Damage II (6)
[dwarf] - Constituion I (2)
73 points spent if I added that right
--- Below depends on lvl18 feat:
Toughness:
[barbarian] - Toughness II (3)
[dwarf] - Toughness II (3)
If Stunning Blow selected:
[dwarf] - Tactics II (6)

...


Dear Shade,

Again, the same problem. Have 1 point remaining. ;)

I choose to spend it on Barbarian Willpower I for more saves.

[Dunoky]

I can see this build is very popular and good, im trying to find me a good build that i can solo and be self sufficient at the same time im between some builds... but my question for u is : Is it possible to play this build and be self sufficient, like solo everything well? I mean, how ur gonna heal as a f2p since u dont have silver flame pots?

[TheFl0w]

I got 2 small questions:

1 is the build as posted in the start of the thread still valid?
2 in what order should i take my enhancements around the required frenzied berserker?

Cheers,

Fl0w

PS I am impressed by all the knowledge people here have about the different class builds, and i am certainly impressed by ur knowledge on barbarians Shade :D

[Shade]

I can see this build is very popular and good, im trying to find me a good build that i can solo and be self sufficient at the same time im between some builds... but my question for u is : Is it possible to play this build and be self sufficient, like solo everything well? I mean, how ur gonna heal as a f2p since u dont have silver flame pots?

Yep.

Healing: The same way VIP would heal from lvl1-20.. You usually won't get SF pots tell long after lvl20 on a first life character.
So you use regular Cure serious potions, and hirelings. (or group up)
Hirelings alone are sufficient to solo 95% of the quests in the game, but its good to have pots too as hirelings sometimes are slow or die.


1 is the build as posted in the start of the thread still valid?
2 in what order should i take my enhancements around the required frenzied berserker?
1. Yea.
2. mmm I think I did a full level by level progression list on my half orc guide here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161
Just replace the half orc stuff with the dwarf stuff (orc melee dmg > Dwarven axe damage)
or ignore it if you cant see equivalents in this build.

[TheFl0w]

1. Yea.
2. mmm I think I did a full level by level progression list on my half orc guide here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161
Just replace the half orc stuff with the dwarf stuff (orc melee dmg > Dwarven axe damage)
or ignore it if you cant see equivalents in this build.

Thanks for the reply. I see i need to play around with the enhancements between orc and dwarf but ill get it.

Thanks for this great build.

Cheers,

FL0w

[Splotto]

+1 on this build. I have been playing it for a little while and I love it.

[Mark_G]

Got my dwarf barbarian to 8th while following Shade's build. First 3 feats were THF, PA, and Cleave. The build's remaining feat progression goes something like this:

9th--Improved Crit, Slash
12th--Improved 2HF
15th--Greater 2HF (or the other way around)
18th--Toughness or Stunning Blow (I'll be taking Toughness)

My question is this--is it critically important to get both 2HF feats before taking Toughness? If I'm lucky enough to pull a Carnifex from Delera's, I'd like to take Toughness at 9th. If no Carnifex, I'm thinking Improved Crit at 9th, Toughness at
12th, and the two 2HF feats at 15th and 18th? Would holding off on these two two-handed feats this long seriously gimp my dwarf?

Thanks, in advance, for your replies!

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Got my dwarf barbarian to 8th while following Shade's build. First 3 feats were THF, PA, and Cleave. The build's remaining feat progression goes something like this:

9th--Improved Crit, Slash
12th--Improved 2HF
15th--Greater 2HF (or the other way around)
18th--Toughness or Stunning Blow (I'll be taking Toughness)

My question is this--is it critically important to get both 2HF feats before taking Toughness? If I'm lucky enough to pull a Carnifex from Delera's, I'd like to take Toughness at 9th. If no Carnifex, I'm thinking Improved Crit at 9th, Toughness at
12th, and the two 2HF feats at 15th and 18th? Would holding off on these two two-handed feats this long seriously gimp my dwarf?

Thanks, in advance, for your replies!

I would take the 2HF feats and save Toughness for 18.

I'd take the THF feats because it is fun running into a mob, spamming Cleave, Supreme Cleave, and watch the big numbers fly. And, you won't miss Toughness levelling up, so you can save it until 18.

[Shade]

Minor update to the builds stats:

Con 16 --> 17
Wis 10 ---> 8

This is due to the way the games headed with a really lack of devastating will save effects in the endgame, a poor will save isn't nearly as devastating as it used to be. U11 has almost nothing in terms of nasty will save effects that this would help much with.

Especially with the mega reduced durations.. Curse used to be permanent, and unremovable with pots, and its now only a couple minutes, and removable with guild pots.. Or hold monster/command/etc.. All have reduced durations on players and are less devastating.

Plus this build has a very good will save anyways, as a Dwaf with spell defense III, Indomitable will, mighty rage.. Your looking at a very solid 35+ will save geared at the endgame vs most spells anyways, so 35 to 36 wouldn't make much difference, as the main threshhold to save well on most effects is 30ish.

So yea, a bit more hitpoints instead.. Good trade off. If you end up with uneven con, simply modifier your enhancemens to include/disclude a rank of hearty rage or bbn/dwarf con.

Might suffer a few more hold person/monsters at the low lvls.. But eh, sometimes its best to learn the hard way that you need to kill the casters FAST, or ask for a freedom of movement from the friendly clr/fvs/brd.

[Tinco]

You know, I often disagree with what and how you tend to communicate/debate on the forums, but that's the chaotic barbarian spirit of yours I guess ;)

It's great to see that you still care for the 28pt builds, include realistic gear options and deviate from the 'H-Orc or gimp' mentality. It actually even sparks some love for barbarians in me, and I'm a diehard Rogue and Monk player. Well earned virtual props here.

[Shade]

It's great to see that you still care for the 28pt builds, include realistic gear options and deviate from the 'H-Orc or gimp' mentality. It actually even sparks some love for barbarians in me, and I'm a diehard Rogue and Monk player. Well earned virtual props here.

Yea dwarves are still excellent barbs.

Just last night I got a tell from someone new to the game thanking me for this build so yea lots of players are still using it and were at lvl17 trying to decide on there 18th feat, so I figured they deserved an update. Overall the builds needed very little updates over the years.

I mean I still consider mine , which is still a 28pnter my main and a very powerful character.. Even If i do play my 36pnt half orc more often now.

Also put the bare bone of this build on the wiki so new players can refernce it there too.. Think it still stands as a great build for any new players, especially free to play.

If they ever come out with dwarven defender i'd TR one of my dwarf barbs too, and set him up as a uber tank and write up a new builds.. Id find a way to make it work hehe.

[Dunoky]

Hey shade, can you give us an update on the weapons ? Those you listed in the first post are still viable? The double pos maul, min2 great axe and the lightning 2 greataxe

[Shade]

Hey shade, can you give us an update on the weapons ? Those you listed in the first post are still viable? The double pos maul, min2 great axe and the lightning 2 greataxe

They continue to the remain viable, and infact 100% ideal.

You will want to later upgrade them, but they are imo, neccesary stepping stones before moving up to the esos/epic antique.

And the maul you later upgrade to tri pos, which remains the best undead beater in the game by far.

[fastedd27]

Shade...first off thanks for this...It has brought me hours of entertainment! Do you have any thoughts/advice on lvls 21-25 for a Dwarf THF?

Thanks mate!

[Nerbat]

The thread for Shade's max DPS build seems to be missing. I had it bookmarked to reference as I level, but the link is broken now. (The link was http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=73360 )

If anyone had it saved to notepad or if perhaps Shade himself could repost it, it would be greatly appreciated ;)

Dont ask Shade, the Greatest Barbarian evah lives on Argo

[Arkat]

Dont ask Shade, the Greatest Barbarian evah lives on Argo

Shade hasn't added a video to his YouTube channel in 5 years.

He might be dead.

https://www.youtube.com/user/AxerDDO


Nice necro of an 11 year-old comment, btw. :rolleyes:

[Cordovan]

closing /necro