Question About Monster PRR/MRR/MP

[Shadow_Jumper]

Suffering, the Half of Whole has a property that has it reduce monster PRR/MRR by 10
Assassin enhancement ability Weakening Strikes has an ability that reduces monster MP by (10 + Rogue Level/2)

My question that I have been asking around to people that know a lot more about numbers than me recently, is that since PRR/MRR/MP is generally a newer form of damage mitigation/increase (Update 23 Epic Orchard), how many monsters actually have PRR/MRR/MP?

So far the only answer I've received was from a friend that informed me that the PRR/MRR reduction only works on the 4 rednamed bosses in Shroud and nowhere else. Aside from the LShroud bosses and the threads I've seen about monsters with PRR seems to be limited to LShroud and LShroud flag. I cannot find anything about monster MP.

Can a dev explain more about how many mobs/bosses these abilities affect?

[Cocomajobo]

Suffering, the Half of Whole has a property that has it reduce monster PRR/MRR by 10
Assassin enhancement ability Weakening Strikes has an ability that reduces monster MP by (10 + Rogue Level/2)

My question that I have been asking around to people that know a lot more about numbers than me recently, is that since PRR/MRR/MP is generally a newer form of damage mitigation/increase (Update 23 Epic Orchard), how many monsters actually have PRR/MRR/MP?

So far the only answer I've received was from a friend that informed me that the PRR/MRR reduction only works on the 4 rednamed bosses in Shroud and nowhere else. Aside from the LShroud bosses and the threads I've seen about monsters with PRR seems to be limited to LShroud and LShroud flag. I cannot find anything about monster MP.

Can a dev explain more about how many mobs/bosses these abilities affect?

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.

[Shadow_Jumper]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.

Good to know, thanks!

[Shadow_Jumper]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives.

Sorry to do a follow up Q, but how does the negative curve apply? I'm assuming it would be a backwards PRR/MP scale but just want to confirm.

IE a monster that has 10 PRR would have 9.09% dmg reduction. If it was -10 PRR would they have a 9.09% vulnerability?

[Clerize]

damage done = 100/(100+prr) * original_damage

So I'd guess that -10prr would result in doing 1.1111111* original damage

I assume that vunerability is additive to the original damage scaling. ie. 20% vulnerability = 1.2* original damage. Thus, -10 prr is 11.11111% vulnerable.

[nokowi]

damage done = 100/(100+prr) * original_damage

So I'd guess that -10prr would result in doing 1.1111111* original damage

I assume that vunerability is additive to the original damage scaling. ie. 20% vulnerability = 1.2* original damage. Thus, -10 prr is 11.11111% vulnerable.

Just need to theory craft a build that removes 100 PRR.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.

On live, I'm not seeing my front number increase when using an ooze weapon

[Clerize]

Just need to theory craft a build that removes 100 PRR.

world crash...

[John3000]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.

Wow... didn't know negative PRR/MRR was possible, nor MP/RP. Is there a limit to how far the negative values can go ?


I guess the ddo wiki needs updating :
https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating

[Shadow_Jumper]

Wow... didn't know negative PRR/MRR was possible, nor MP/RP. Is there a limit to how far the negative values can go ?


I guess the ddo wiki needs updating :
https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating

FWIW I don't think the devs deal with the wiki

[red_kain]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. .

How certain are you on this? Misinformation on this subject would not be well received, at least on my end.

[Odysseus2011]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

The second statement is factually incorrect. Going down to negative 10 PRR from a base of 0 is actually a larger damage difference than going up to positive 10 PRR. The reason for this is that the formula as is currently known has an asymptote at -100PRR.

Here's a graph showing the damage that a target will take if the initial incoming damage is consistently 10damage with 0PRR. This graph has X values from -120PRR to 100PRR and the Y axis shows the damage the mob would take. As the target approaches -100PRR the damage spikes significantly; while any PRR value including and below -100 return results that would be uninterpretable.

[droid327]

I need to get a -101 PRR penalty so enemy attacks heal me

[Sho-sa]

I need to get a -101 PRR penalty so enemy attacks heal me

Isn't that where PM in high skull reaper is headed? haha

[Shadow_Jumper]

All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

Just tested with a guildy.

Conditions were:
SWF rogue first using Pain, and then using Suffering
Guildy provided 20% vulnerability with another Pain for the Suffering test
5 mins of looking for highest front number
My Pain had a +2 MP because of Mythic versus blank

Results:

Vulnerability only (113 MP) highest front number was 369
Vulnerability & -10 PRR (111 MP) highest front number was 364

Based on the fact that it is supposed to go negative per your statement, can you confirm that this is non WAI?

[FuryFlash]

I would also like to know if these values can actually go negative on live right now.

[Cocomajobo]

Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

Writing a bug report currently.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

Writing a bug report currently.

Cheers dude. Thank you for your attentiveness. When and whatever a solution ends up being, it will be good.

[Odysseus2011]

Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

Writing a bug report currently.

My guess is that the equation for PRR/MRR is only used for positive values of PRR/MRR since the equation has drastically different properties for values lower than zero.

[Nagantor]

It does work out if you compute the effect of negative PRR by computing it like positive values and only apply the percentage computed as negative afterwards. As the PRR formula cannot reach 100% (yes, it could go below the minimal floating point value... sure, we'll see such numbers...) the reduction can't reach 100% either.

So instead of

dmg * 1 / (100 - PRR)

you do

dmg * (1 - 1/(100 + PRR))

Obviously only for negative values of PRR which create the "- PRR" above.