Night Revels: Why does it all have to disappear

[MysticElaine]

**I posted this in the Night Revels Lam thread group too, so no need to re-read if you saw it there, but didn't know if it would get read a lot since the Lam testing is over**

After grinding FOREVER to get keys to then be able to do each quest twice, in which I only get 15 ingredients from doing it at level or 17 doing it one level higher, I feel it is just wrong to make all of that work disappear at the end of the year. At this rate, and if I don't have time like millions of other players do to grind 24/7 for the items I need, I should be able to keep what I have worked for. Granted, I can ensure my grinding of keys don't go to waste by making sure I use them all up, but in 3-4 hours of playing, I got 4 keys, used 4 free keys, and got a total of 32 ingredients of each type. I didn't even have enough chocolates by the end to be able to trade in for a draught of midnight.

Please don't tell me that I need to be a certain type of player...I need to do raid groups, buy ddo store items, play a certain way. Events should be made for every type of player. Those that want to grind and sell to make money can do their thing, those that want to grind to get mats and make items can do theirs. Those that have very little time to play, and are willing to save onto mats for years in order to finally get an item, should be allowed to choose to do so.

I like the challenges, fast and simple. I hate the key drop rate, and wish we could trade in chocolates for keys. I like that there is no timer, except the time it takes to get keys.

PLEASE just let me keep what I worked for!

[PpalP]

/signed

[EnziteBob]

Raid groups make a big difference in the graveyard. Run the quest a few levels above your own. They are very easy so this should be no problem. But it the end they do need to bump up the drop-rate.

[moomooprincess]

That was a PREVIEW.

Next week it starts back up and goes until November 8.

Please. Calm. Down.

[MysticElaine]

That was a PREVIEW.

Next week it starts back up and goes until November 8.

Please. Calm. Down.

I realize that was a preview. What I am getting at is that I don't have a ton of time to play, I shouldn't be forced to play a certain way to make the event work (have to do raids, buy ddo items, spend plat I don't have to get keys/mats), and that all of my hard work and time spent just shouldn't disappear at the end of the year. I duo with a guild mate a lot, who feels uncomfortable in big groups, which SHOULD BE fine. I might only get to play an hour a day and get enough ingredients to get halfway to the item I need. I should get to save that for next year and work at getting the remaining ingredients when it comes around again to finally get the item I want. If I can't save, there is no point in my playing the event because I won't get enough to make what I want in one event.

[Grahson]

yes you should be able to save the stuff from year to year. Not everyone has time a lot of time.

[Blastyswa]

**I posted this in the Night Revels Lam thread group too, so no need to re-read if you saw it there, but didn't know if it would get read a lot since the Lam testing is over**

After grinding FOREVER to get keys to then be able to do each quest twice, in which I only get 15 ingredients from doing it at level or 17 doing it one level higher, I feel it is just wrong to make all of that work disappear at the end of the year. At this rate, and if I don't have time like millions of other players do to grind 24/7 for the items I need, I should be able to keep what I have worked for. Granted, I can ensure my grinding of keys don't go to waste by making sure I use them all up, but in 3-4 hours of playing, I got 4 keys, used 4 free keys, and got a total of 32 ingredients of each type. I didn't even have enough chocolates by the end to be able to trade in for a draught of midnight.

Please don't tell me that I need to be a certain type of player...I need to do raid groups, buy ddo store items, play a certain way. Events should be made for every type of player. Those that want to grind and sell to make money can do their thing, those that want to grind to get mats and make items can do theirs. Those that have very little time to play, and are willing to save onto mats for years in order to finally get an item, should be allowed to choose to do so.

I like the challenges, fast and simple. I hate the key drop rate, and wish we could trade in chocolates for keys. I like that there is no timer, except the time it takes to get keys.

PLEASE just let me keep what I worked for!

Yep, the disappearing of stuff is really annoying. I already got all the ingredients I needed for all my items from about 4 hours of grinding during the preview, and have no plans to run night revels any more because if I do, I'm not really able to use or save my mats from it. Horrible design choice in my opinion.

[somenewnoob]

Yep, losing all the ingredients at the end is a really bad concept unless it is a one and done event. Really bad for people who don't have hours and hours to play and might like some of the loot but need a couple events to get the ingredients.
Hope this doesn't become the new normal.

[grausherra]

Blame the people duping ingredients for months on end.

[Cordovan]

We do appreciate the feedback on this. There are several reasons why we are trying out this method for event ingredients; one is to encourage people interested in getting items from the event to return to the graveyard in future years rather than stockpile ingredients in large enough amounts that future returns of the event amount to a trip to the Trader. Another is to address the unfortunate issue of event ingredient duplication, should that be inadvertently possible in the future. This is one of the reasons why we were unable to re-use the Mabar ingredients in any fashion. A third is to encourage people to buy items and consumables when they get enough ingredients to do so. We did want to make sure people with limited time could still participate and get something from the event, which is why the ingredient cost for the consumables and limited-duration items is quite low. If we haven't found the correct drop rate frequency, that is something we can adjust. Thanks for the post!

[Vooduspyce]

If we haven't found the correct drop rate frequency, that is something we can adjust.

I'd like to see either key drop rate doubled or challenge ingredient drops doubled.

[Thar]

We do appreciate the feedback on this. There are several reasons why we are trying out this method for event ingredients; one is to encourage people interested in getting items from the event to return to the graveyard in future years rather than stockpile ingredients in large enough amounts that future returns of the event amount to a trip to the Trader. Another is to address the unfortunate issue of event ingredient duplication, should that be inadvertently possible in the future. This is one of the reasons why we were unable to re-use the Mabar ingredients in any fashion. A third is to encourage people to buy items and consumables when they get enough ingredients to do so. We did want to make sure people with limited time could still participate and get something from the event, which is why the ingredient cost for the consumables and limited-duration items is quite low. If we haven't found the correct drop rate frequency, that is something we can adjust. Thanks for the post!

Stop blaming the duping and do something about it. the 99% that didn't do it don't care. Find the 1% and do something with the account with 100,000 raid timers, 30,000 augs, etc. Some of us don't want to just farm an event for weeks and only accomplish one or two items for our 30+ characters. Those few leftovers give us a jump on the next year. To see anything disappear is irritible, much less the NEW ingrediants (and items). why should i waste my time after getting the item i can afford to spend the time on?

[Darkmits]

We do appreciate the feedback on this. There are several reasons why we are trying out this method for event ingredients; one is to encourage people interested in getting items from the event to return to the graveyard in future years rather than stockpile ingredients in large enough amounts that future returns of the event amount to a trip to the Trader. Another is to address the unfortunate issue of event ingredient duplication, should that be inadvertently possible in the future. This is one of the reasons why we were unable to re-use the Mabar ingredients in any fashion. A third is to encourage people to buy items and consumables when they get enough ingredients to do so. We did want to make sure people with limited time could still participate and get something from the event, which is why the ingredient cost for the consumables and limited-duration items is quite low. If we haven't found the correct drop rate frequency, that is something we can adjust. Thanks for the post!

My personal suggestions for the issues outlined:

a) Each year introduce only one new ingredient that will be used to purchase the highest level or any new items from the event in question. That way, even if someone has stockpiled tens of millions of event ingredients, they will still need to run it when it comes again to be able to further upgrade or purchase newer items.

b) Regarding duplication, unfortunately I have no idea how they did it, so I do not have any really easy suggestion, but I have thought of one:
- Create a new bank tab that persists through reincarnation labeled "Seasonal Event Cache"
- Shortly after an event ends and the relevant merchants disappear, all ingredients related to that event are removed from all containers of each character (including from the TR cache, if any are there), and are transferred there.
- No modification can be made in that cache; no item can be retrieved and no stack can be split/increased/moved (like with TR cache).
- When an event is enabled, players can go to that cache and select to retrieve all ingredients relevant to it (not partially, all of them, to reduce possible exploits), and they cannot perform any other action with this cache.

c) I have no suggestion for this.

[HernandoCortez]

So, if the ingredients expire... why are the items so... lame?

[dunklezhan]

I expect at best to get one item completed when the event opens for real, because I don't have a lot of time to play for extended periods in one sitting, which means I probably won't end up with anything like enough keys. At the drop rates I've experienced I'll actually be quite surprised if I get one item. Its a hassle, yes. Of course if I get just short of what I need to get something completed and then all the ingredients evaporate then clearly I just won't play next time. /shrug. Its only loot, I'm used to not getting the loot in this game. Still, hopefully not because I already gave up one Mabar after one attempt and I'd hate to end up ignoring this one too. I don't know what the answer is (better key drop rate I suspect in my case), but I would imagine the reasons the ingredients expire are:

-Keeps the event active: you have to actually play it when it comes around.
-Neatly sidesteps accusations of a cash grab on storage which Turbine have been accused of in the past with the number of crafting systems in the game.
-Presumably also reduces the duping which was rampant (so I'm told, I never seem to experience any of it myself) in previous events.

So I get all that, I do. But based on the first night, I do not expect to finish an 'item'. Key's drop too infrequently and L35 only grants 32 ingredients so it's not like it's even 1 for 1 on the CR of the instance. I'll definitely be able to buy consumables but if I can't save between events so that I can buy a permanent item every other event, then I certainly hope is that as each event ends there will be a way to convert any excess stuff into something. Even if it's just plat. I dunno, maybe something like 'for 7 days after the event ends, all event consumables can be purchased with any ingredient instead of just the chocolate pieces.' Just something to help you tidy up.

Edit - missed cordo's post. Cordo, I simply think keys don't drop frequently enough. With things like access to events, I appreciate keys are a way to control the flow of items. But its too easy to get runs of good or bad luck (I've only had bad thus far in the two or three hours* I tried to put in during the preview, I got just 1 random key, which I got almost immediately on deciding to give up for the night and dropped group. as soon as I went solo, the very next key. I meant to go back on and test my theory but for sure being in a group needs to noticeably improve your odds!!). Can we please start thinking about 'escalators' for this kind of mechanic. I would love it if Turbine could establish roughly how many kills you want it to take us to get a key on average and find a way to start increasing the odds once you approach or exceed that number without one.


*MUCH closer to two hours than three, in fairness

[Nestroy]

We do appreciate the feedback on this. There are several reasons why we are trying out this method for event ingredients; one is to encourage people interested in getting items from the event to return to the graveyard in future years rather than stockpile ingredients in large enough amounts that future returns of the event amount to a trip to the Trader. Another is to address the unfortunate issue of event ingredient duplication, should that be inadvertently possible in the future. This is one of the reasons why we were unable to re-use the Mabar ingredients in any fashion. A third is to encourage people to buy items and consumables when they get enough ingredients to do so. We did want to make sure people with limited time could still participate and get something from the event, which is why the ingredient cost for the consumables and limited-duration items is quite low. If we haven't found the correct drop rate frequency, that is something we can adjust. Thanks for the post!

1) Welcome back!

2) Drop rates... Is there any possibility to change them on a server base? Wayfinder as usual does not sport enough players to have significant mob populations in Deleras. So mobs are far and in between to be found. So either make them roam longer, or make them spawn more often. Or make them drop more often. Please! As it is, w/o some help from the shop running up for significant chocolate quantities you need hours and hours of time - more than the 11 or so calculated hours some mentioned for sure.

On the plus side - I like the new challenges. And the fact they give XP and at least vendor thrash grade loot. Just please check before opening "night": are the chests in the challenges supposed to give guild renown or not? When I ran the challenges well above toon level, they did not drop any. Could be just plain bad luck, so I hesitate do fill in a bug report, but...

[morkahn82]

I realize that was a preview. What I am getting at is that I don't have a ton of time to play, I shouldn't be forced to play a certain way to make the event work (have to do raids, buy ddo items, spend plat I don't have to get keys/mats), and that all of my hard work and time spent just shouldn't disappear at the end of the year. I duo with a guild mate a lot, who feels uncomfortable in big groups, which SHOULD BE fine. I might only get to play an hour a day and get enough ingredients to get halfway to the item I need. I should get to save that for next year and work at getting the remaining ingredients when it comes around again to finally get the item I want. If I can't save, there is no point in my playing the event because I won't get enough to make what I want in one event.

it is a haloween event. you can not ask for haloween to last all year even if it would be fun.

[Kompera_Oberon]

Another is to address the unfortunate issue of event ingredient duplication, should that be inadvertently possible in the future. This is one of the reasons why we were unable to re-use the Mabar ingredients in any fashion.

One of? What might the other reason(s) be?

[Erofen]

it is a haloween event. you can not ask for haloween to last all year even if it would be fun.

That is not at all what they are asking. They are just asking for their candy buckets to not be emptied when halloween stops, so they, as casuals, can make an item the NEXT halloween. That is definitely a reasonable request and one that in previous events did not have to be made due to non expiring mats.

[Erofen]

My personal suggestions for the issues outlined:

a) Each year introduce only one new ingredient that will be used to purchase the highest level or any new items from the event in question. That way, even if someone has stockpiled tens of millions of event ingredients, they will still need to run it when it comes again to be able to further upgrade or purchase newer items.

b) Regarding duplication, unfortunately I have no idea how they did it, so I do not have any really easy suggestion, but I have thought of one:
- Create a new bank tab that persists through reincarnation labeled "Seasonal Event Cache"
- Shortly after an event ends and the relevant merchants disappear, all ingredients related to that event are removed from all containers of each character (including from the TR cache, if any are there), and are transferred there.
- No modification can be made in that cache; no item can be retrieved and no stack can be split/increased/moved (like with TR cache).
- When an event is enabled, players can go to that cache and select to retrieve all ingredients relevant to it (not partially, all of them, to reduce possible exploits), and they cannot perform any other action with this cache.

a) kinda like they did for Crystal Cove

b) great idea