Epic Scroll - Interactive Distribution Mechanics (IDM)

[MeliCat]

Much prefer the new mechanic. Gentler minded people will no longer be so easily bullied into rolling or not rolling on scrolls.

[Tarnoc]

Seconded. It could be considered auto-ninja-loot if there were no party message upon scroll acquire. Fortunately there is, so the analogy is a poor one.

Cheers,
Kernal

so ill start by saying ive run alot of epics and have 2 to 4 epic items on all my capped toons and ive only encountered a few ninjas in all my running....

that said i dont see why this post above makes sence wat difference does it make if it posts x got y scroll its thier loot they won the DDO roll fair and square....and as we all know

YOUR LOOT IS YOUR LOOT!

and ill say this im not gonna be pressed into having to let a scroll i fairly won in DDO rolling terms to have reroll for the party....

i personally would like to see the LOTRO pass roll option though...ide rather not waste my 100 rolls ona wolf whistle scroll if you get my drift

[Auran82]

so ill start by saying ive run alot of epics and have 2 to 4 epic items on all my capped toons and ive only encountered a few ninjas in all my running....

that said i dont see why this post above makes sence wat difference does it make if it posts x got y scroll its thier loot they won the DDO roll fair and square....and as we all know

YOUR LOOT IS YOUR LOOT!

and ill say this im not gonna be pressed into having to let a scroll i fairly won in DDO rolling terms to have reroll for the party....

i personally would like to see the LOTRO pass roll option though...ide rather not waste my 100 rolls ona wolf whistle scroll if you get my drift

I'm sure there will be some people who will try to pressure pugs to re-roll on any sought after scroll, until of course it is them who gets the marilith chain/torc/whatever scroll they are after, I'm sure things will change then.

Of course the guild groups really wont change much, just means they don't need to actually pick up the scrolls. It seems the thing people are most upset about is someone else getting a scroll they themselves 'deserve more' and not getting a roll on it, missing the point that they had their roll, they lost.

Maybe the game should publish the 'rolls' in the loot window or something.

[Doxmaster]

Once the Drama Threads for this come out, I really hope people ask the OP to "PM EVERYONE'S NAME!" and after they get the whole group's names (as well as who did what, who didnt do what and which one is Haxorific's alt) then post their stance on the issue and whether or not the forumite's guild will be grouping with the OP or with the other person from then on.

It'll make for some hilarious threads.

[Melt-emi]

Game decides who gets it on a random roll
Game announces that X player just got Scroll Y
Whining/moaning/threats commence in 3...2...1

Leaving the mechanics as they are now (so scroll dropping on the ground and party free to roll or pass) and adding a "message" saying who got the scroll from the ground (after winning at roll or, in case of a ninja looter, after picking it up without party's consense) would be enough to discourage ninja looting. The rest is not necessary.

Many people want to be the owner of their own good or bad luck, so deciding if rolling or not on a scroll, to them, is better than making it automatic. You'll never allow someone else (or something, in the case of DDO) to roll dice at your place while betting 2 mil dollars in Las Vegas (crude example). If you lose you want to do it with your hands, you'll never accept a lost you are not responsible of. So "Whining/moaning/threats commence in 3...2...1"

[wolflordnexus]

Leaving the mechanics as they are now (so scroll dropping on the ground and party free to roll or pass) and adding a "message" saying who got the scroll from the ground (after winning at roll or, in case of a ninja looter, after picking it up without party's consense) would be enough to discourage ninja looting. The rest is not necessary.

Many people want to be the owner of their own good or bad luck, so deciding if rolling or not on a scroll, to them, is better than making it automatic. You'll never allow someone else (or something, in the case of DDO) to roll dice at your place while betting 2 mil dollars in Las Vegas (crude example). If you lose you want to do it with your hands, you'll never accept a lost you are not responsible of. So "Whining/moaning/threats commence in 3...2...1"

How is DDO rolling dice on the computer any different when I type in /roll d whatever vs the computer just automatically rolling I still don't get to use my dice or my hands.

[Burninator]

Why isn't everyone up in arms about the fact that Seals and Scrolls drop in chests and are allocated to only 1 person!

Seems like people are scared by the fact they may no longer be able to manipulate their way to more loot through various means.

The question that really should be asked is "WHY are scrolls often the hardest item to get out of all epic components?". The whole epic collection process is flawed and should be changed. There isn't any point to getting worked up over the fluff around the edges.

As a temporary change it's fine, as long a full overhaul occurs at some stage to fix the real problems.

[BelVic]

I like it for 2 things at least :

-- no need to look on the floor after monsters are killed..just in case you missed scroll

-- will be more scrolls on AH for sale...and forums for trade

[Templarion]

So if everyone has an equal and fair chance as opposed to some jerk just grabbing it and taking it how is that auto-ninja?

I have to disagree with a not well said.

Tripled.

I like it for 2 things at least :

-- no need to look on the floor after monsters are killed..just in case you missed scroll

-- will be more scrolls on AH for sale...and forums for trade

Seconded.



I don't understand the arguments against this change. I think it's only for good: no more ninjas, no more random rules in PUGs, guild runs goes as always, no more people accidently picking up the scrolls.

In addition, if there was "Roll or Pass"-popup it would be just frustrating. How many of you have anti-popup feature enabled right now? Probably quite many since it's enabled on default in most browsers.

Advertisement or not. Pop ups are pain. I hope we won't ever see them here in DDO.

[Beethoven]

I simply have to get it out of my system: hard to argue bullying or people manipulate their way to more loot when the loot in question did not have a name tag on it to begin with. No one had more or less rights to the scrolls. It was up to the group to figure out how to handle it.

The traditional ways to resolve how a quest/raid is run is:
* the guy/gal with the star gets to decide. Don't like it? Nothing keeps you from forming your own group.
* the majority of the group makes the decision. Don't like how the rest of the group wants to do things? Well, maybe then it's not the group for you.

The only wrong-fun<tm> is insisting you should get to benefit from the rest of the group without actually cooperating/contributing.

Now, as far as the systems are concerned: I am neither impressed by the U8 system nor do I have a problem with it. To me, it is but marginal better.

It fixes the matter of ninja-ing and potentially removes some cause for drama by removing the need to figure things out ourselves and have the system tell us who wins. My largest issue (and main cause of disappointment) was and is that the whole thing is heavily slanted towards solo-play.

A competent caster can solo-farm scrolls for pretty much every chain with no need to worry about ninjas, behind-the-scenes rolls or drama and on top of that has a significant higher chance of scrolls than in a group.

Why isn't everyone up in arms about the fact that Seals and Scrolls drop in chests and are allocated to only 1 person!

Way I see it, the reason is simple:

Chance for a Scroll dropping seems to be about 1:100, regardless of how many people are in the quest. Consequently, your chance of a scroll is 6! times lower when in a full group than when solo-farming. Whereas chance for a Seal seems between 5%-10% per chest, per player. So, your individual chance of a Seal is the same in a full group or when solo-farming.

The overall chance for a getting a Seal when in a full group is actually higher than when solo farming because another party member may be nice and put a Seal (s)he does not need up for roll.

[Eladiun]

This is also how it works in the Saga MMO, and I would love to also see it in DDO.

This is how it works in 90% of the MMO's ever.

In a game like DDO where almost nothing is class/race restricted most people would roll on anything anyway, so they already implemented that with this change, lol.

If the person who gets the scroll would have passed, they can ask people who want it to roll d100.

This assumes all players are greedy.

[sweez]

How is DDO rolling dice on the computer any different when I type in /roll d whatever vs the computer just automatically rolling I still don't get to use my dice or my hands.

This. Computer actually automatically doing the roll for everyone is far more objective than your hypocritical "need before greed" subjective whining.

Reading threads like this, I'm not entirely sure most people actually comprehend the fact that SCROLLS ARE NOT BOUND.

[Asketes]

-- will be more scrolls on AH for sale...and forums for trade

Cuz no one will ever get a scroll they don't need. Right? Right. Glad we cleared that up.

[Beethoven]

This. Computer actually automatically doing the roll for everyone is far more objective than your hypocritical "need before greed" subjective whining.

Exactly; in a perfect society human actions and interaction should be firmly dictated by a computerized system than a hypocritical "freedom to make own choices" subjective whining.

I liked Paranoia too. It was a great game.

Anyway, my dissatisfaction is actually more based on finding the U8 solution very half-baked. We want to go a similar route to chest loot, why not go all the way? To me a better solution would be to make it a 1:100 chance per player in the instance whenever a mob dies as opposed to a 1:100 chance for a scroll to drop and then another 1 in 6 chance to see who gets it.

So, while I comprehend the fact that scrolls are not bound, I also comprehend the fact that six is larger than one and my dislike of the system is based on solo-farming being six times as efficient than farming with a full group.

[Goldeneye]

Why isn't everyone up in arms about the fact that Seals and Shards drop in chests and are allocated to only 1 person.

Because you can sell scrolls.

If a seal drops in your name, and you can't use it, there is no incentive to keep it.
If a scroll drops in your inventory, and you can't use it, you can now turn around and sell it.

I'm afraid of the "my loot is my loot" theory. It's the mentality of something being handed to you. If you happen to get a Marilith Chain scroll in your inventory, 95% of people are sure-as-hell not going to want to give it up.... they'll turn around and sell it for 8mil plat.

[dunklezhan]

This is how it works in 90% of the MMO's ever.

Well there you go then, that's why its a bad idea. WoW has this system. And since WoW has it, its automatically bad for DDO. At least, that's the reaction you generally get if you post anything here that suggests an idea used in that game might be good here. Its like a gut reaction: what? WoW has this? Must be for noobs, no moar eezie button, noob!

/sigh.

I quite like the suggestion that all the scrolls are just logged as the run progresses for everyone to roll on at the end, you still have the problem that someone who DC's half way through due to no fault of their own loses out. Better to just have it flag up, get people to select need or greed, and let the system roll for you based on that. No-one picks need, the people who just wanted it for auctioning or handing down get a chance. 'But everyone will pick need!' is possibly true in some groups. And that will lead to blacklisting just like ninja looting does now. So no difference in 'dishonest' groups, and an equal shot in honest ones that means you don't have to stand around the drop wasting time.

Sounds fine to me. The chests already sort your loot for you anyways. I don't even check to see what other people got, I just click 'loot all' and move on, unless a flag jumps up saying 'this will bind it to you' - then I check, since I can't broker or AH it anyway if its not good to me. If its useless, I put that up for roll.

I think this auto-loot system is fine. Obviously lots of people disagree. I don't see how a compromise can be reached, really.

[bryanmeerkat]

The OP system seems overly complicated to me and I suggest a simple system .

1. The mob dies
2. This message come up on screen " Epic scroll of Awesomness just dropped , we rolled for you all and Bob won . Well done Bob , thats yours now do with it what you will"

This way people too stupid to work out that the item being randomly assigned to a random member of the party has already been randomly assigned so dosent need randomly assigning again with a roll because it has already been randomly assigned .

[Asketes]

The OP system seems overly complicated to me and I suggest a simple system .

1. The mob dies
2. This message come up on screen " Epic scroll of Awesomness just dropped , we rolled for you all and Bob won . Well done Bob , thats yours now do with it what you will"

This way people too stupid to work out that the item being randomly assigned to a random member of the party has already been randomly assigned so dosent need randomly assigning again with a roll because it has already been randomly assigned .

random randomness is not so random, only when randomly being random can randomly assigned random randomness be randomly randomized

[Goldeneye]

The OP system seems overly complicated to me and I suggest a simple system .

1. The mob dies
2. This message come up on screen " Epic scroll of Awesomness just dropped , we rolled for you all and Bob won . Well done Bob , thats yours now do with it what you will"

This way people too stupid to work out that the item being randomly assigned to a random member of the party has already been randomly assigned so doesn't need randomly assigning again with a roll because it has already been randomly assigned .

I can only vouch for my epics, but if you roll on a scroll that you're not going to use - chances are, you're not welcome in my group any more. It's common courtesy, need before greed.

[bryanmeerkat]

I can only vouch for my epics, but if you roll on a scroll that you're not going to use - chances are, you're not welcome in my group any more. It's common courtesy, need before greed.

Well , for me thats pretty silly really , I wonder how many times you have been ripped off without knowing it , dont think that every barbie you see roll on something they apparently need has not run off and auctioned it up . As I am sure if you let someone have a roll on a massive plat item a lot of them will roll even if they have 2 in their back pack already . (thats fine i guess he could technically of needed it )

Factor in "alt" rolling ( for alt read the altuctioneer) allowed or not ? If it is then how is that fair on 1 toon players ? and how can it be checked ?

How about TRing is it ok to roll need for a future TR (quote" I am going complesionist so I need everything ")

If you are going to blindly trust that the caster in the group is rolling in genuine need and not just ruinning off with the item to make some money when he already has that item then more fool you .

A far more sensible system for people to adopt would be to keep what you win and trade it . That way people are far more likely to get what they want based on a fair amount of runs .