Guild Renown awards

[DANTEIL]

For people, like me, that have capped toons, don't like epic, don't want to play epic, are you telling us, MadFloyd, that we get a big nada for playing high level quests if we play in normal or hard?

I'm in the same situation, with a Level 20 character who isn't planning on making a habit of epic.

However, to be fair to MadFloyd, I don't believe that this is a 'big nada'. Instead, I believe that he is telling us that we can either run Level 18 quests on Elite or Level 19 quests on Hard and still get the full 20% chance for renown in chests, OR if we want to run everything at Normal, then:

Level 19: 16% chance of renown in chests
Level 18: 12% chance
Level 17: 8%
Level 16: 4%
Level 15: nada starts here, I guess.


So, no those aren't great odds, but it isn't nothing. And notice this doesn't take into account the *size* of the renown reward.

[PhotoRob]

That's always possible and why we appreciate the feedback.

When you run quests at level, you have a 20% chance of finding renown in chests. For every level you're above the quest level, that chance is reduced by 4%. So if you're 3 levels over, you're looking at an 8% chance to find renown.

Why the early reduction? You don't even get an XP hit until the second level over. I'm one of those people (I assume there's a fair number) that enjoys soloing and typically does quests 1 or 2 levels below my level. My reasoning is that *MY* personal game playing skills are not good enough to play most quests at level - if I do, I almost certainly die. And this buffer zone gets larger the higher the quest.

Wouldn't it be much more player friendly to give 1 or 2 levels over without penalty and then gradually taper it off over the next 3-5 levels to some minimum *NON-ZERO* number? (There should always be a chance of something; I feel the same rules should be applied to overlevel XP penalties as well, but hey, what do I know, I'm just another paying customer)

[Sker-lyn]

I'm in the same situation, with a Level 20 character who isn't planning on making a habit of epic.

However, to be fair to MadFloyd, I don't believe that this is a 'big nada'. Instead, I believe that he is telling us that we can either run Level 18 quests on Elite or Level 19 quests on Hard and still get the full 20% chance for renown in chests, OR if we want to run everything at Normal, then:

Level 19: 16% chance of renown in chests
Level 18: 12% chance
Level 17: 8%
Level 16: 4%
Level 15: nada starts here, I guess.


So, no those aren't great odds, but it isn't nothing. And notice this doesn't take into account the *size* of the renown reward.

The problem is that what he is tellling us and what is happening are two different things.

Play a level 12, 14, 16 quest and get zero or few, I can understand and I'm agree with that view... But play Inspired or Amrath and get two kills renown and don't see a renown token even in a photo?? That isn't normal... I cut the bussiness of an evil organization relate with extraplanar things or entering in a Devil fortress and jam their security isn't something to get known for?? In this moment, just a single level of difference is making a huge abyss in the renown quantities...

I only hope this isn't intentional to make us play our low levels alts and stop bothering them with real high level stuff :P

[donblas]

Thanks to madFloyd for the information on the renown drop rates - that makes it possible for players to assess whether things are working properly. Obviously those who get a lower drop rate than might be expected from Madfloyd's post are far more likely to report this than people lucky enough to get better drop rates.

MadFloyd's information at least let me know that the stats I was compiling aren't outside of the expected range, as i was running slightly over level so I only had about a 4% drop expectation if that.

On a related note - have coin drop rates been tweaked too? I've looted quite a lot of chests over the last 24 hours (dozens at least) and have obtained only 1 gold coin and a few silver -the rest are all copper. The last 8 chests are all copper except one silver.

Anyway I'd like to thank Mad Floyd again for his extremely useful information.

[Frolia]

That's always possible and why we appreciate the feedback.

When you run quests at level, you have a 20% chance of finding renown in chests. For every level you're above the quest level, that chance is reduced by 4%. So if you're 3 levels over, you're looking at an 8% chance to find renown.

First, thank you for the replies and information.

Questions: 1) Does the formula add 4% for each level Below QL your character is? Or is the max 20% static?

2) Is there a chance the formula is not adding 1 for Hard and 2 for Elite to the QL? It seems a lot of posts are from folks also running the quests on hard and elite and getting 0.

Suggestions:

Maybe reduce the penalty per level to a 2% reduction for the first level or two above quest. Then start the 4% reduction at 3 levels above. This would also give the 20's an extra level lower of quests that they could earn renown from.

Example:

At Level 20%
1 Above 18%
2 Above 16%
3 Above 12%
4 Above 08%
5 Above 04%

Anyhow, thanks again for the information. All in all, the guild system has been fun so far.

[iamsamoth0]

So, when does the window for hiring close? I am SO ready to get to work and help keep the DDO-Wagon rolling!

/derail off
I think they want to examine options to add to the under GL25 level. After playing a few times since the update, I have only made it to GL2(Cannith). I went through 20+ bag drop renown(5's) before I had the option to loot a 500 pointer from a chest. It's the only reason I got to GL2 in the second week. I foresee many guilds getting stuck roughly around that level(25).
But again feedback from the devs is appreciated. TY MF! No +'s this time.

[Xaearth]

When you run quests at level, you have a 20% chance of finding renown in chests. For every level you're above the quest level, that chance is reduced by 4%. So if you're 3 levels over, you're looking at an 8% chance to find renown.

And yet, why do I get the feeling that the chance of finding renown is not increased for every level below the quest your character is?

Edit: And does a similar formula apply to end rewards? Because if so, you're royalling screwing any 20s over considering end rewards don't differentiate between difficulties.

[MadFloyd]

The problem is that what he is tellling us and what is happening are two different things.

Play a level 12, 14, 16 quest and get zero or few, I can understand and I'm agree with that view... But play Inspired or Amrath and get two kills renown and don't see a renown token even in a photo?? That isn't normal... I cut the bussiness of an evil organization relate with extraplanar things or entering in a Devil fortress and jam their security isn't something to get known for?? In this moment, just a single level of difference is making a huge abyss in the renown quantities...

I only hope this isn't intentional to make us play our low levels alts and stop bothering them with real high level stuff :P

I can assure you, we have no such intentions.

A little more info for you: the length of the quest affects your chances for renown in the end reward. Unless you're 5 levels over the quest, you should have a minimum of 50% chance to see renown and it goes up from there to 100% for a very long quest.

If I'm not mistaken, the Inspired quests are short, meaning you should only see renown half the time.

[rdasca]

While I have some issues with the renown system, many thanks MadFloyd, your information is greatly appreciated.

[zorander6]

Well that explains why my level 12 wasn't getting any renown in Ataraxia's haven (CR 10) the other night. However my wife's character is level 10 and our friends is level 9 and of the chests we got we got a grand total of 50 guild renown. Meh, guess I'm going to have to break the knowledge to the wife that my 3.5 person guild (the half person plays another guild as well) will probably not have an airship before Christmas, not unless I win the powerball and can find all people of the exact same level and run exact level quests with.

I understand the reduction, thought it a bit ludicrous that you could get ~500 renown from running kobold's new ringleader as a level 11/12 character but when the most renown we get is about 75 points a night after getting 4-500 a night for a couple hours play before the patch.....

Meh, glad I wasn't really all that excited about the airships. At least my guild is high enough we can use the reagent vendors.

Edit: We ran The Church and the Cult as well on elite and got maybe 100 total renown. I'll start keeping a log of exact amounts.

[Cyr]

That's always possible and why we appreciate the feedback.

When you run quests at level, you have a 20% chance of finding renown in chests. For every level you're above the quest level, that chance is reduced by 4%. So if you're 3 levels over, you're looking at an 8% chance to find renown.

Thanks for the info. I would have greatly prefered you not made statements about how much more renown is in the game post patch...because it is misleading at best. This is a fairly big change, one that should have been prominently featured with the formula you just gave in the release notes.

Now what are the increased odds on elite/epic?

[Blackbird]

That's always possible and why we appreciate the feedback.

When you run quests at level, you have a 20% chance of finding renown in chests. For every level you're above the quest level, that chance is reduced by 4%. So if you're 3 levels over, you're looking at an 8% chance to find renown.

This is way too low. It especially hurts "medium" guilds that are over the 25 account "small" guild bonus but just barely. This makes it near impossible for us to get renown. Here is some "feedback" on how much renown I'm actually seeing:

Level 11 ranger
Eastern Excavation (Threnal) - none in chests
Part 1 (hard) - 0
Part 2 (hard) - 30 from kills (3x5, 1x15)
Part 3 (normal) - 5 from kills
Heroic Deeds end reward option

Level 20 fighter
SubT on way to VoD - 5 from kills, none in chest
Vision of Destruction (normal) - 5 from kills, Heroic Deeds in one of end chests, no end reward renown option

Level 20 ranger
Shroud (normal) - 30 from renown (3x5, 1x15), none in chests, no end reward option

[Rodrak]

You can be over level, but for each level over your chances are reduced. Keep in mind that Hard difficulty adds 1 to the level, elite adds 2.

The problem is that being even 1-2 levels above quest level (difficulty included in count) removes almost all renown (or at least the chances to get it are really low). If you play a low level non-TR character, there's way too much XP in the game (until you reach mid-levels and above) and even doing quests only on hard and elite and level up only when you reach XP cap, you still end up doing lots of quests ~2 levels above their proper level. Not everyone powerlevels to the endgame and then do all the other (poor xp/min) quests for favor. Many people just like doing quests at their level or close (tough quest done solo on elite with character 1-2 levels higher is that easy to not grant any renown? really?). But as it's now it seems the best way to go will be to run the best xp/min quests at exactly their level over and over so you can get both xp and renown quickly, ignoring everything else. Great for some players, utterly boring for others.

[dragons1ayer74]

Just did a few quick ones with my lvl 4 Barbarian

New Ring leader normal (level 2 Quest -10XP) - 3 Chests 0 Renown Rewards 0 option on end reward
Depths of Despair 2 Runs (level 4 Quest) - 5 Chests total 3 Renown Rewards 0 option on end rewards

[Kelavam]

Sorry to chime in late here. So is this based person to person in a party? If a level 5, 4, and 1 group up and do a level 5 quest. Does the level 1 character get a better chance of pulling reknown? And vice-versa (5,4 and 1) the 1 gets 20 percent, the level 5 gets 4 percent?

I am just curious.

[DANTEIL]

A little more info for you: the length of the quest affects your chances for renown in the end reward. Unless you're 5 levels over the quest, you should have a minimum of 50% chance to see renown and it goes up from there to 100% for a very long quest.

Judging from people's reports here (specifically, very little to no renown as end rewards), it seems like the 50% threshold is not being met, much less 100%.

[Sker-lyn]

I can assure you, we have no such intentions.

A little more info for you: the length of the quest affects your chances for renown in the end reward. Unless you're 5 levels over the quest, you should have a minimum of 50% chance to see renown and it goes up from there to 100% for a very long quest.

If I'm not mistaken, the Inspired quests are short, meaning you should only see renown half the time.

So, making it simple: You need to play a big big long quest in your level to don't feel you aren't wasting your time to get renown.

Good for the majority of my alts (Altoholic here, guilty), but my monk and tempest (and soon my FvS) are sad pandas right now, they know by now they are useless to the guild >_<

Out of joking, I'm not the kind of player that make a fuss over everything... I like the DDO, I enjoy playing, I have no problem with re-doing quests and the majority of the game have no issues for me but this... I'm almost about to ask to un-make this change and strip us from the small guild favor or we aren't getting a ship not even when druids hit the game >_<

You know the majority, or almost every high level quest is, like a guildie describe them: Fast, easy and for all the family... right? I mean, not only Inspired is fast (as hell) but Amrath or Vale aren't that long at all. In fact I can take more time doing Carnival than doing Coalescense. Dunno if is 'cause we in our guild are like a plague in those quests, but they don't take us long time preciselly.

With the content like it is right now and with the renown system like it is right now, my high levels aren't gonna see so much renown.

Is good to know that isn't an error of the system but, I'm sorry, guys, a huge mistake from Devs planning.

And sure that isn't explaining at all end quest rewards where I don't see a token since the update... That is according to length of the quest too??

[knightgf]

It seems that now, I get more renown killing monsters than I do pulling them for chests. It's kind of sad in a way because it further discourages people to stealth around monsters or find some other ways to evade them if they're in a guild. I guess DDO always has been and always will be straight up hack-and-slash combat...no reward for party members using their brains to find other ways to complete the dungeon without resorting to bugs.

Oh, and on top of that, overall, I'm getting much less renown than last time, not because I'm a low level character, but because the drop rates have changed dramatically, as I have noticed in this thread.

[eunucorn]

I can assure you, we have no such intentions.

A little more info for you: the length of the quest affects your chances for renown in the end reward. Unless you're 5 levels over the quest, you should have a minimum of 50% chance to see renown and it goes up from there to 100% for a very long quest.

If I'm not mistaken, the Inspired quests are short, meaning you should only see renown half the time.

Thank you for providing some of the equations/probabilities we are supposed to see with renown.

First I'll say that renown with the fix works very well ... way better than before the fix. I see good renown in epics, and find it in chests at lvl at about the same rate as before the fix. Good job.

As for end rewards, I am almost certain that I have not seen a single renown token in an end reward list since the update. Not on my 20, not on my lowbies. I don't really mind this. Personally I don't think renown should drop in end reward lists. Just adding my experience to date.

[dragons1ayer74]

The problem is that being even 1-2 levels above quest level (difficulty included in count) removes almost all renown (or at least the chances to get it are really low). If you play a low level non-TR character, there's way too much XP in the game (until you reach mid-levels and above) and even doing quests only on hard and elite and level up only when you reach XP cap, you still end up doing lots of quests ~2 levels above their proper level. Not everyone powerlevels to the endgame and then do all the other (poor xp/min) quests for favor. Many people just like doing quests at their level or close (tough quest done solo on elite with character 1-2 levels higher is that easy to not grant any renown? really?). But as it's now it seems the best way to go will be to run the best xp/min quests at exactly their level over and over so you can get both xp and renown quickly, ignoring everything else. Great for some players, utterly boring for others.

+1 100% agree.

Gee let’s make those quests that should give you renown no matter what level you run them at now give you nothing for renown, this is wrong. Certain quests should give renown no matter what level you do them at. Also be default the formula should provide more chance for harder difficulties like +2 Hard +5 Elite. If I get no xp from a quest I can kind of go along with it generally but sometimes the time on the quests are completely out of relation with how long it actually takes or how hard the quest is in relation. Protecting Coyal in Threnal 3 I don’t care if you are 20th level doing it on normal you should have a chance at renown because unless you know what you are doing your level won’t make a whole lot of difference. Protecting him even after knocking him out 20 times in 15 minutes is a heroic accomplishment.