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  1. #21
    Community Member Shawnculli's Avatar
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    I just created a dark hunter and the idea of trap disarming is pretty neat for a ranger. Kind of an urban hunter instead of a traditional ranger, very cool. The restriction to favored enemies is thematically perfect for this idea.

    I do have one thing to note, when I went to train to level 2 I noticed the four points I put into Disable Device and Open Locks had been reduced to 2, like it was considered a cross class skill still?

  2. #22
    Developer Torc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnerD View Post
    So Arcane Archer ceases to exist?
    No. Just this archtype of ranger wont' be able to take it without using a racial tree since it's being replaced by a new tree. Ranger "original flavor" still has that tree.

    -T

  3. #23
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    This is trying to do way too many things at once (bad druid, bad rogue, bad deepwood/ranger, bad alchemist). This is like 1st life utility leveling toon for Heroic hard runs.

    Some suggestions:

    • Drop the wolf it will never be anything but a joke and a lever puller at end game. If not, make it a familiar and give it interesting buffs like feydark
    • Make cores give an SA dice, Deepwood already basically does. If not, then something else unique and interesting (AOE deception proc on hit that effects one mob per core)
    • increase dodge stacks on hit to 5 or 10, or change to 5 stacks of incorp (or max dodge)
    • 5/60 seconds on SA buff leaving invis is FAR too short to be useful. Increase to 10 seconds. Or reduce cooldown to 20-30 seconds. Its the most interesting thing by far in this tree
    • Ranged assassinate is interesting but likely you will water it down to be uninteresting, so don't do that please. Recall casters have multiple instakills (2-5) at any point in time, some of which hit multiple targets so consider not nerfing this to be a single target with a long cooldown
    • just give SA die progression equal to rogues instead of 1/2 on levels
    Last edited by jakeelala; 01-18-2023 at 04:31 PM.
    good at business

  4. #24
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    Just like the other archetypes these are selectable at character creation. You can still play regular ranger which will have AA if you want.

    Ah thank you. Makes sense. Haven't run archetypes yet.
    Argonessenn -Officer of Storm Shadow-
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnculli View Post
    I just created a dark hunter and the idea of trap disarming is pretty neat for a ranger. Kind of an urban hunter instead of a traditional ranger, very cool. The restriction to favored enemies is thematically perfect for this idea.

    I do have one thing to note, when I went to train to level 2 I noticed the four points I put into Disable Device and Open Locks had been reduced to 2, like it was considered a cross class skill still?
    Yeah I noticed that too. It eats like 4 skill points from creation to in game


    Ranged assassinate is interesting but likely you will water it down to be uninteresting, so don't do that please. Recall casters have multiple instakills (2-5) at any point in time, some of which hit multiple targets so consider not nerfing this to be a single target with a long cooldown
    Yeah essentially played this already with AA/Deepwood/Horizon - A few areas monsters would just stand around and be untargetable until you have alerted them. Or other areas where you'd snipe one guy, and then you get zerged by like fifty other dudes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    The +1 will be doubled. So the Rapier goes 18-20, 15-20 (feat alone), 13-20 (+1 competence x2 because you have IC:Piercing)
    What +1? There's no +1 to Range

    The way I read it is this...

    +1 Comp to Mult
    Double feat benefit from IC:Pierce to Range

    That lets you stack another +1 Comp to Range from DWS....so with Rapier should be 18-20 +3 from IC:P +3 from double +1 from DWS for 11-20 x3

    That's a mod of .90, which is among the best but isnt an outlier
    Last edited by droid327; 01-18-2023 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    New Archtype for Ranger

    New Tree: Dark Hunter
    Replaces Arcane Archer


    Themes: Assassination, sneaking, hunting, trapmaking, scavenging, throwing weapons



    Tier 3:
    Use Magical Device: +1/2/3 Use Magic Device

    +1 Dex / Int / Wis

    Tier 4:

    +1 Dex / Int / Wis



    Where does support for throwing weapons come to pay in this tree?

    Use Magic Device in a class when UMD is not a class skill seems like a waste.

    I'd replace Wis with STR. I know why it is there and I know why some players may want it, but it doesn't seem to go with the lore of this design.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  8. #28
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    Where does support for throwing weapons come to pay in this tree?

    Use Magic Device in a class when UMD is not a class skill seems like a waste.

    I'd replace Wis with STR. I know why it is there and I know why some players may want it, but it doesn't seem to go with the lore of this design.
    Agreed on all points.

    Also change the Capstone to add +2 to Dex/Int/Str if you're going to change the + to Stats in the tiers.
    Last edited by Arkat; 01-18-2023 at 04:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  9. #29
    Community Member Assassination's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    This is trying to do way too many things at once (bad druid, bad rogue, bad deepwood/ranger, bad alchemist). This is like 1st life utility leveling toon for Heroic hard runs.

    Some suggestions:

    • Drop the wolf it will never be anything but a joke and a lever puller at end game. If not, make it a familiar and give it interesting buffs like feydark
    • Make cores give an SA dice, Deepwood already basically does. If not, then something else unique and interesting (AOE deception proc on hit that effects one mob per core)
    • increase dodge stacks on hit to 5 or 10, or change to 5 stacks of incorp (or max dodge)
    • 5/60 seconds on SA buff leaving invis is FAR too short to be useful. Increase to 10 seconds. Or reduce cooldown to 20-30 seconds. Its the most interesting thing by far in this tree
    • Ranged assassinate is interesting but likely you will water it down to be uninteresting, so don't do that please. Recall casters have multiple instakills (2-5) at any point in time, some of which hit multiple targets so consider not nerfing this to be a single target with a long cooldown
    • just give SA die progression equal to rogues instead of 1/2 on levels
    Agreed. I really like the new "feats and features" that dark hunter gives. The tree is going to be really difficult to use with a tempest though.

  10. #30
    Community Member Lyune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokewolf View Post
    Like most of what I see here except the loss of Arcane Archer. Would suggest removing Tempest instead as this Archetype is most likely to be played as a ranged build.

    Anyways, as is this is so good, should we say RIP Rogues?

    -Smoke
    I didn't see evasion up there for the DHRanger, so, maybe still a reason for Rogue?
    on Cannith: Gildanara, Sveena, Stellanara. Casually Passionate about DDO

  11. #31
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    IDK...just seems like a Tempest Trapmonkey with more steps...

    Wolf is a pure flavor addition. Pets need a comprehensive revamp before you can even consider calling them a class feature. They're a liability, a penalty, if you try to use them for anything more than lever pulling in even slightly meaningful content.

    And I dont know what the point of a stealth build is...stealth itself is so depreciated, and the build really doesnt offer enough to get you to go into stealth as a combat tactic. The one bonus has a 5s uptime/60s cooldown, that's a joke. The other bonus doesnt stack with Relentless Fury, which is pretty much pro forma for melee.

    Just kinda feels like its a build that you think should work, but isnt going to, because its not designed for the actual game of DDO as it actually exists. Much like DA, I think its going to end up that its best played by mostly ignoring the new tree and playing it like a Tempest

  12. #32
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    Some weird interactions:

    1) Blade Specialisation isn't worded the way it appears to work. It grants +1 Competence MULTIPLIER, and that multiplier is doubled with IC: Pierce. On Lamania that works on both longswords and daggers, so is not directly tied to IC: Pierce. Competence means it doesn't stack with Tempest Core.

    2) You CAN take AA via the Elf tree, if you have millions of spare AP somehow...

    3) It has healing spells that can be Accelerated but can't take Accelerate Spell - not necessarily unexpected, but annoying having been playing Alchemist this life.

    And some thoughts:

    1) This tree compounds the annoying dynamic Ranger trees deal with by splitting Crit Threat and Crit Mult across multiple trees. Yes, I can take this and Tempest, but to get Crit threat I need to put 21 AP in Deepwood (or Vistani etc) as well. No other class has such a weird split across trees - I think the Tier 5 here should give +1 Crit Threat as well [or put it in a Core somewhere, or give to Tempest - lots of options to reduce this problem].

    2) Is this meant to be a serious melee tree? The Tier 5s say "no", as we lose any bonus HP (add to Stone's Hue? Or a toggle with assassinate ability). I really hope this tree offers a melee assassinate as well as a ranged one (on a pick one toggle, ala Deepwood). Otherwise the melee elements are pretty vague. I appreciate that blurs the line with Assassins, but that tree offers things this one doesn't. Maybe to balance both a melee and ranged version could have longer CD than Assassinate?

    3) Capstone gives bonuses to blinding enemies but the tree doesn't support that specifically.

    4) LOVE Lupine instincts. Gives a pet a purpose beyond combat that could still be useful at high levels.

    5) Tier 5s are pricey at 2 AP for every single one. Dark Sight and Ferocity could be 1 AP each, given the latter requires heavy AP investment in pet options that many would otherwise skip.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    This is trying to do way too many things at once (bad druid, bad rogue, bad deepwood/ranger, bad alchemist). This is like 1st life utility leveling toon for Heroic hard runs.

    Some suggestions:

    • Drop the wolf it will never be anything but a joke and a lever puller at end game. If not, make it a familiar and give it interesting buffs like feydark
    • Make cores give an SA dice, Deepwood already basically does. If not, then something else unique and interesting (AOE deception proc on hit that effects one mob per core)
    • increase dodge stacks on hit to 5 or 10, or change to 5 stacks of incorp (or max dodge)
    • 5/60 seconds on SA buff leaving invis is FAR too short to be useful. Increase to 10 seconds. Or reduce cooldown to 20-30 seconds. Its the most interesting thing by far in this tree
    • Ranged assassinate is interesting but likely you will water it down to be uninteresting, so don't do that please. Recall casters have multiple instakills (2-5) at any point in time, some of which hit multiple targets so consider not nerfing this to be a single target with a long cooldown
    • just give SA die progression equal to rogues instead of 1/2 on levels
    I agree the Tree is attempting to do too much. For the record I think all of the Archetype Trees are attempting to do too much and voiced that with Sacred Fist and Dark Apostate were released.

    I think part of the problem with this tree is the existing Deepwoods Sniper Tree and too much potential overlap. In many cases I would like to see the Deepwoods Sniper Tree changed to allow this tree to be more rouge like, if that makes sense.

    There is a playstyle that takes advantage of the pet, people play it. It may not be useful to you but to them it opens up new avenues of play, so I have no problem with it, even though I may not use it. Additionally a dev at one point suggested working on Pet AI and the like to make them more useful. Hopefully that work was started.

    I would not give Sneak Attack progression the same as a Rogue, this isn't Rouge 2.0 it is a Ranger with Rogue skills.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  14. #34
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    I agree the Tree is attempting to do too much. For the record I think all of the Archetype Trees are attempting to do too much and voiced that with Sacred Fist and Dark Apostate were released.

    I think part of the problem with this tree is the existing Deepwoods Sniper Tree and too much potential overlap. In many cases I would like to see the Deepwoods Sniper Tree changed to allow this tree to be more rouge like, if that makes sense.

    There is a playstyle that takes advantage of the pet, people play it. It may not be useful to you but to them it opens up new avenues of play, so I have no problem with it, even though I may not use it. Additionally a dev at one point suggested working on Pet AI and the like to make them more useful. Hopefully that work was started.

    I would not give Sneak Attack progression the same as a Rogue, this isn't Rouge 2.0 it is a Ranger with Rogue skills.

    i dunno i looked it up in SRD, this thing is just supposed to give assassinate (OR PARALYZE as a toggle), sneak attack, and rogue skills.

    It's basically deepwood but flavor wise in a cave instead of woods. Seems like a bad choice given available options. UNLESS They really lean into the assassinate/CC angle, and maybe offer some other interesting imbues or defensive options (since it replaces AA). overall, meh
    good at business

  15. #35
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    there is one place this thing will shine in current form as that's as a place for a pure ranger (knife thrower or bow) to lean into more SA dice and such. its a no brainer there, but not sure who else would really use it
    good at business

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    there is one place this thing will shine in current form as that's as a place for a pure ranger (knife thrower or bow) to lean into more SA dice and such. its a no brainer there, but not sure who else would really use it
    As someone that's always happy to find a new way to use Sniper's Shot, I'm still happy if this is the only thing gained.

    Ranger was already a fantastic chassis for Inquis. This replaces access to extra imbue dice for extra sneak dice, and adds a few on top to boot.
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  17. #37
    Community Member Smokewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyune View Post
    I didn't see evasion up there for the DHRanger, so, maybe still a reason for Rogue?
    Rangers get evasion as part of their level progression, so it's not necessarily to have it within an enhancement tre.

  18. #38
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    The first couple of lines of this post tells me everything we need to know....

    "Themes: Assassination, sneaking, hunting, trapmaking, scavenging, throwing weapons"

    For real? You are going to replace AA with something that has nothing to do with being an archer.

    PASS

    Why do I continually get my hopes up with SSG actually giving a @#$% about bows.

  19. #39
    Community Member BananaHat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    New Archtype for Ranger

    Death Attack: Ranged Assassinate. Balance TBD. From the pen and paper source, this is essentially a copy of the ability Assassinate from Assassin, so we're looking into a way to differentiate it from the Rogue ability. Open to suggestions on this front!

    Since Falconry already has a ranged assassinate, perhaps this one could lean into the pet. (...and yes, I know the bird supposedly lands the assassinate, but the bird is essentially an extension of your weapon) Leave the normal ranged assassinate attack but have using it also add a buff to your wolf that causes their next attack that lands to also force a save vs assassinate. Kind of a 2 for 1 deal with the caveat being your pet, which is generally weak due to lack of scaling, has to deliver the second one. I can imagine a lot of people won't take the pet unless it gets some cool abilities since they can't hold their own in epics or higher difficulties.

    Alternate idea: Using the assassinate buffs your wolf such that all their attacks land (except on a 1) for the next X seconds and either generate extra threat or negative threat (multi-selector). Basically, either a "hey, fight the wolf and not me" or a "here is some bonus damage post-assassinate from my pet".
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyune View Post
    I didn't see evasion up there for the DHRanger, so, maybe still a reason for Rogue?
    Looks like they forgot to add it to the Class feats.

    Is it being added at level 2 or is it still level 9?

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