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  1. #1
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    Default an apology to SSG and the community

    Just want to eat some humble pie for a second and express my deepest apologizes to SSG, dev's, posters, and everyone in the community whom were offended by some of my previous posts or responses.
    It wasn't my intention to insult or harass anyone! I try not to make it personal, but sometimes I let the beast out of the cage when I come across posters or replies that are rife with ignorance or stupidity!

    Sometimes I feel like no matter how much the community complains, the developer's don't care/listen/read about our problems. Sometimes you just have to look at it like a business like Mcdonalds... do they care if one person is unsatisfied about their product and refuses to buy another Bic Mac ever again?

    I feel this game is as good as it ever will get. I don't think the dev's care about balancing the game, as they do about quick streamed revenue.. So that's why I think they will focus on new content over game balancing and whatever they can push thru the ddo store. If that's their decision because it's business first, and pleasure later, then hey, I respect that...

    Again sorry for any offensive content on my end - it won't happen again.

    And Dev's, if you're reading this, I only ask of you one thing.. Respond to the community.. maybe not every post, but the one's that merit it or gain enough popularity... tell us if it's something that can be addressed, or something that is WAI and not on the to do list...



    Thank you all for your time

  2. #2
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  3. 08-09-2022, 05:24 PM


  4. #3
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Whatever pain people caused themselves reading your threads they must have explicitly or implicitly desired it as reading forums is optional.
    Please consider the environment before printing this post

  5. #4
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    'Just want ... deepest apologizes ... beast out of the cage when ... ignorance or stupidity!'




    an apology followed by an insult - how 2022.

    Le sigh

  6. #5
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar29 View Post
    Just want to eat some humble pie for a second and express my deepest apologizes to SSG, dev's, posters, and everyone in the community whom were offended by some of my previous posts or responses.
    It wasn't my intention to insult or harass anyone! I try not to make it personal, but sometimes I let the beast out of the cage when I come across posters or replies that are rife with ignorance or stupidity!

    Sometimes I feel like no matter how much the community complains, the developer's don't care/listen/read about our problems. Sometimes you just have to look at it like a business like Mcdonalds... do they care if one person is unsatisfied about their product and refuses to buy another Bic Mac ever again?

    I feel this game is as good as it ever will get. I don't think the dev's care about balancing the game, as they do about quick streamed revenue. So that's why I think they will focus on new content over game balancing and whatever they can push thru the DDO store. If that's their decision because it's business first, and pleasure later, then hey, I respect that...

    Again, sorry for any offensive content on my end - it won't happen again.

    And Dev's, if you're reading this, I only ask of you one thing. Respond to the community. maybe not every post, but the one's that merit it or gain enough popularity... tell us if it's something that can be addressed, or something that is WAI and not on the to do list...

    Thank you all for your time
    If you re-read your apology, it sounds a bit like this "I apologize but...".

    For issues concerning broken issues within the game, I have empathy for your desire to have it resolved as fast as possible as I feel the same.

    Concerning gameplay updates, addressing items like class balancing, content creation, class/race updates etc. are all business decisions that SSG has to assign priorities for. For me as an example I will always push for more content and better content quality above just about anything else. Does that mean bugs and game improvements should not be made, NOPE it does not as I think it should be done but, in the priority, the SSG can implement it in.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
    Guild Leader of Legends: Where adventurers are born & Legends live.
    Motto: Enjoy the game, loot and XP will follow

  7. #6
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    If you re-read your apology, it sounds a bit like this "I apologize but...".
    I disagree as I saw no exculpatory verbiage in the original post. I do not feel they were trying to excuse their behavior, but simply explain their motivations. I am unaware what precisely they said or did, but based on their explanation of what motivated their actions I am absolutely inclined to excuse whatever it was that they did entirely. DDO had the greatest gaming community I have ever been a part of, and I feel by and large the ratio of courteous and friendly people to jerks is still above par, but there are so many obtuse responses in the forums from people who absolutely refuse to even attempt to think before responding that I understand all too well just how maddening it can be.

    The worst part is their inane comments immediately dismantle any possibility of actual discussion of the topic at hand. This type of person is entirely impervious to facts, reason, or logic, they feel their wholly unsupported opinion trumps (how ironic) any dissenting opinion regardless of... well... simply without regard to anything whatsoever. Even if you don't respond to them, you can't prevent others from responding and the actual topic of the discussion goes right out the window as it devolves into a debate about who needs to learn to play and who needs to crawl out of their mother's basement every once in awhile to soak in a few drops of vitamin D from the Sun.

    The community managers are complicit in the destruction of any thread in which they do not like the topic. They will give people carte blanche to raze discussion of the actual topic while poised to pounce on the slightest rationale to lock the thread. Long time forumites know this and will personally attack you relentlessly in an effort to provoke you, knowing they have the full support of the community managers. You don't have to say anything wrong to get your thread locked, you don't even need to say anything at all, they'll just claim the discussion in unproductive and lock the thread. If they are feeling particularly spiteful they'll slap an infraction on you as well for... "Provoking, Trolling, and “baiting”: Making posts to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you are not permitted."


    Yep, that's right, an attempt at having an intelligent discussion about a topic, working toward consensus and resolution, is BAITING others into off-topic personal attacks and therefore is deserving of an infraction.

    Since I gave up on DDO back in about 2016 I rarely start a new thread, but several years ago I started a thread that is a perfect example of what it is like to try to have an actual discussion on these forums. It was about resistance shrines being removed from the guild ships. The shrines were something many of us worked very hard to obtain and spent a fair chunk of real world money on a guild ship to be able to use. The resistance shrines provided the exact same non-stacking buff as the Resistance to Energy spell cast at level 11, which is available to 8 different classes. Resistance can also be obtained from favor, augments, crafting, and even simple potions... 30 resist with no ML from the store and 20 resist with no ML from a vendor in the catacombs.

    It was immediately obvious to everyone why the shrines were removed as it directly coincided with the start of the second hard core season. To that end I suppose I can understand their motivation, but was very disappointed to see that it carried over to the retail servers as well because those 30 resist guild buffs were EXTREMELY convenient. One might think the players who found them the most convenient were low level players who did not have access to the Resist Energy spell, but actually, because resistance is so readily available in other forms at low levels the convenience was actually afforded to higher level players who did have the spell because they did not have to rebuff every party member after every shrine.

    If you were a fighter (or other class without the spell) who primarily ran solo, the removal of the shrines wasn't that big of a deal. A vendor in the catacombs sells no ML resist 20 potions and you can stock up at level 1 with stacks of 100 for each element. As you go up in level so too does your access to 30 resists in a variety of forms, most notably resistance augments that you simply socket and forget. The removal of the shrines would have virtually no impact on your game play what so ever, aside from spending 2 minutes to pop over to the catacombs vendor at level 1.

    In all actuality, 20 resist is fine for pretty much the entire game. Where resistance shines is when a player is taking small but repeated damage from an element, Damage Over Time effects... DOTs... Burning Blood, Acid Arrow, Wall of Fire and the like. Rarely does a resist provide significant mitigation for single hit elemental damage with a couple notable exceptions. Kobold Shaman in harbor quests can just about one shot you with Lightning Bolts or Niac's Cold Rays, but that's simply because the developers have never payed any attention to how those NPCs were affected when they monkeyed with spell casting over the years. When guild ship shrines were first introduced those spells certainly hurt, but they were nowhere near as lethal as they are today. Nor should they be, but that's another ball of wax.

    As I pointed out, it's very easy to fill the gap left by the guild ship resistance shrines, if you are so inclined. The problem arises for players who still see DDO as a multiplayer game, where you are a member of a team that works together to combine their powers into a triumphant force of good in order to vanquish the evil that beleaguers the lands. For such players the shrines provided a massive convenience as the casters in such groups need not worry themselves with passing resistance buffs to every member of the party after each and every shrine. Sure, some players are extremely self serving and expect other players to provide all their own buffs, but I dare say they are not in the majority even today, and certainly were not in the game's heyday. Of course a player can invest in UMD and by level 11 or 12 scroll cast nearly every buff in the game, and some do, but DDO is supposed to be a role playing game and as such it's certainly reasonable to count on your teammates to some extent. That extent is subject to great debate, but the way I play, the way all my friends play, the way the vast majority of players I've pugged with over the years is that if you're in a dungeon with a lot of elemental damage a caster will provide that resistance.

    Under that framework, I feel like for most players (which I understand is merely my opinion based on my personal experience, but you should understand that experience is quite vast as I've played with literally thousands of different players during my time with DDO) the guild ship resistance shrines were merely a convenience, and a convenience primarily for those players who specifically have the resistance spell.

    In the thread, titled: Our stolen resistance shrines weren't OP, merely a convenience. Proof inside., I demonstrated how our stolen resistance shrines weren't OP, but merely a convenience, and provided proof inside. The thread was immediately inundated with people ignoring every point that had been raised and replying the buffs were indeed OP but providing no further support than because they think so. At one point in the thread I said I felt like I had been taking crazy pills because I felt like I had been taking crazy pills.

    Let's look at the topic rationally:

    How 30 Resist Shrines Were Not OP

    • The buffs were opt-in, if you felt they provided more resistance than you felt you deserved you didn't have to do ANYTHING! Just don't click them. Unlike the new buff system where you would have no choice but to receive them or forego guild buffs altogether, if you felt the old resistance shrines needed to be removed it was solely because you didn't want OTHER people to have them.
    • The buffs were conceived and implemented by the developers and remained in game for over a decade.
    • The buffs worked exactly and irrefutably as intended. This wasn't some exploit nor did it have some unexpected effect, the devs created them to provide 30 resist and that's precisely what they did. It's not like they implemented them and then trembled with trepidation at the power they had unleashed. This was the most straight forward action and consequence the game has ever seen, you know exactly what effect it will have on the game before implementing it.
    • The buffs were given to no one, you had to earn them, and it wasn't a trivial process. It took my guild, and many others, years to get the shrines.
    • In only a tiny fraction of the game is 30 resist even out of line with what is otherwise readily available. Keep in mind 20 resist potions are available with no minimum level from a vendor in the catacombs. 30 resist potions with no ML are available in the store, so technically they aren't OP at all, but even if you discount pay to win you're still only looking at 10 more resist than you can get from a potion. Keep in mind, we're talking about the first 11 levels here, and only if you discount store pots, that the shrines provided more resistance than otherwise available, that's just a few hours in the life of your character that the shrines provided 10 more resist than you can get from a potion easily purchased from the catacombs vendor.


    How 30 Resist Shrines Were OP

    • Kobold Shaman in the harbor.


    One would think such a post would be a slam dunk. In all fairness, I'd already known for years that posting in the forums was an exercise in futility. That's why I had only started a handful of threads since 2016, and those were mostly to poke fun at some of the more absurdly ridiculous things the devs had done, and once or twice to give them credit where credit is due. Yet even I was not prepared for the onslaught of bad faith arguments thinly disguised as ignorance.

    Me: Kinda sucks you removed the resist shrines, they were my favorite buff because they provided so much convenience.

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: But they were opt in, you didn't have to click them, so you just don't want others to have access to them?

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: But they weren't really OP, 99% of the life of a character is spent above level 11 where the exact same level of resist is readily available.

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: But even at level 1 you can get vendor potions that provide 20 resist.

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: But the only place they could really even be considered somewhat powerful is the harbor quests, and those are so simple you can do them with your eyes closed.

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: But even if 30 resist is more than should be available at level 1, the DDO store would certainly disagree though, wouldn't it be better to just limit their effectiveness to be equivalent to that of the spell?

    Forumite: They were OP, removing them was long overdue!

    Me: While I don't think they were overly powerful, I wouldn't have a problem with solutions that didn't remove them altogether.

    Forumite: LOLz! U sUxorZ! Lern 2 Pla! LOLz!

    Me: But aren't you the person that face rolled the game for thousands of hours to get so many past lives you've activated perma EZ mode? I don't even have a single completionist character, I just want to play the game and have fun, I don't personally identify with my character's stats. I actually enjoy challenge and even advocate for a server devoid of past life progression obtained through relentlessly face rolling easy content.

    Forumite: Your tears are sweet like Mountain Dew. I would know because my floor is littered with pee filled Dew bottles because I can't stop grinding reaper XP for even the 2 minutes it would take to get up and use the restroom.

    ...or something like that.

    At any rate, OP, don't be too hard on yourself. I don't know what you did or said, I probably wouldn't agree with it either, but I certainly understand how frustrating it can be trying to have an intelligent discussion about something around here.
    First Lives Matter!!!
    Give us a no reincarnation server!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    I disagree ...
    This satirical essay is truly amazing! I humbly bow before your literary expertise.

  9. #8
    Community Member Belzidar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBulette View Post
    This satirical essay is truly amazing! I humbly bow before your literary expertise.
    I agree
    Belzidar/Chalcidar/Gakar and a few others

  10. #9
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    Thank you for the reply, the enjoyable essay , and for understanding what constitutes as an apology.

    For those of you who have stated that what I wrote sounded like an apology followed by an insult, I feel sorry for you to be unable to grasp the meaning. As other's have pointed out, I was explaining my motivations for my outburst; It's pretty sad when people can't understand basic grammar and go ahead and post stuff like " lol , sounds to me like... " but what can you do? All sorts of levels of people here.. ; )

  11. #10
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    Not quite sure what to make of this thread, although I know some of the context behind it. Seems like the thread has run its course at this point though, and it seems likely to create a weekend fight, so closing.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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