U51 - Reaper 4 is the new Elite

[Marshal_Lannes]

Before U51 went live there was some concern that players were going to be nerfed with the loss of twists and some feats. I was a vocal proponent of the fact that over the course of the game player power continually increases with every update and expansion. Well, after playing today, my statements have been validated as the game continues the cycle of increasing character power. In fact, mobs have been scaled back so much that Reaper 4 is going to be the new elite in epics.

I first started in Gianthold on R1, an area with meaty mobs, to test the changes. Keep in mind I'm not remotely optimized and using a lot of L15 gear on my sorcerer at L28. The quests felt like normal. Forget about meteor swarm, good old SLA fireball was smoking mobs. Lots of people were on checking out U51 so the group quickly filled and I pushed up the difficulty. A FVS and I were crushing Delera's on R4. DPS casting has tremendous power with the reduction in mob HPs.

It feels that SSG did not balance the game around people with full reaper or epic trees as some feared. This seems balanced around a first-life character just starting epics. I'm not going to say the monster cuts went too far, I've played a day with the changes. But I will say that I can quickly see R4 becoming the new black. I'll be running all my epics on R4 as the baseline. In the next day or two, I'll test out what Legendary quests look like on high reaper. If they've retained their difficulty and the lower epics have been significantly been made easier then SSG will indeed have created a stratification in questing where we will feel the difference between normal and legendary epics. That's solid game design.

Any concerns about it being tougher to epic TR have been put to bed. Character's are stronger and more dynamic in epic questing than ever before.

[TFerguson]

Wrong.

[voxson5]

r4 was the new elite quite a while ago, it's just that players never wanted to get out of the r1 easy tr chair.

[Maldorin]

Before U51 went live there was some concern that players were going to be nerfed with the loss of twists and some feats. I was a vocal proponent of the fact that over the course of the game player power continually increases with every update and expansion. Well, after playing today, my statements have been validated as the game continues the cycle of increasing character power. In fact, mobs have been scaled back so much that Reaper 4 is going to be the new elite in epics.

I first started in Gianthold on R1, an area with meaty mobs, to test the changes. Keep in mind I'm not remotely optimized and using a lot of L15 gear on my sorcerer at L28. The quests felt like normal. Forget about meteor swarm, good old SLA fireball was smoking mobs. Lots of people were on checking out U51 so the group quickly filled and I pushed up the difficulty. A FVS and I were crushing Delera's on R4. DPS casting has tremendous power with the reduction in mob HPs.

It feels that SSG did not balance the game around people with full reaper or epic trees as some feared. This seems balanced around a first-life character just starting epics. I'm not going to say the monster cuts went too far, I've played a day with the changes. But I will say that I can quickly see R4 becoming the new black. I'll be running all my epics on R4 as the baseline. In the next day or two, I'll test out what Legendary quests look like on high reaper. If they've retained their difficulty and the lower epics have been significantly been made easier then SSG will indeed have created a stratification in questing where we will feel the difference between normal and legendary epics. That's solid game design.

Any concerns about it being tougher to epic TR have been put to bed. Character's are stronger and more dynamic in epic questing than ever before.

Thanks for sorting all that out for us and saving us time. Can I request you do it on a melee? Maybe at cap on some Legendary newish quests like Sharn, Saltmarsh or Fey? A live stream or video would be great so I can see what secret sauce you're cooking with to make R4 so trivial. I don't know. Maybe they did squish the mobs down like they said they were going to do. Good news for you, like you said. "Make reaper easier!" can be the forum rallying cry. Do it for the children.

[Oxarhamar]

Before U51 went live there was some concern that players were going to be nerfed with the loss of twists and some feats. I was a vocal proponent of the fact that over the course of the game player power continually increases with every update and expansion. Well, after playing today, my statements have been validated as the game continues the cycle of increasing character power. In fact, mobs have been scaled back so much that Reaper 4 is going to be the new elite in epics.

I first started in Gianthold on R1, an area with meaty mobs, to test the changes. Keep in mind I'm not remotely optimized and using a lot of L15 gear on my sorcerer at L28. The quests felt like normal. Forget about meteor swarm, good old SLA fireball was smoking mobs. Lots of people were on checking out U51 so the group quickly filled and I pushed up the difficulty. A FVS and I were crushing Delera's on R4. DPS casting has tremendous power with the reduction in mob HPs.

It feels that SSG did not balance the game around people with full reaper or epic trees as some feared. This seems balanced around a first-life character just starting epics. I'm not going to say the monster cuts went too far, I've played a day with the changes. But I will say that I can quickly see R4 becoming the new black. I'll be running all my epics on R4 as the baseline. In the next day or two, I'll test out what Legendary quests look like on high reaper. If they've retained their difficulty and the lower epics have been significantly been made easier then SSG will indeed have created a stratification in questing where we will feel the difference between normal and legendary epics. That's solid game design.

Any concerns about it being tougher to epic TR have been put to bed. Character's are stronger and more dynamic in epic questing than ever before.

Try running at level instead

You have not traveled from 20 to 30 to ETR and test this theory yet

[droid327]

I found the same thing. Dipped my toes in the water in EE, kept adding skulls each subsequent quest till I was on R4 and like "this is still so easy"

I get the feeling that Epic is being made trivial the way Heroic has been for a while, to make room for Legendary, where we'll see a jump in difficulty the way there was going from HE/R1 to EE/R1 before

[Marshal_Lannes]

I found the same thing. Dipped my toes in the water in EE, kept adding skulls each subsequent quest till I was on R4 and like "this is still so easy"

I get the feeling that Epic is being made trivial the way Heroic has been for a while, to make room for Legendary, where we'll see a jump in difficulty the way there was going from HE/R1 to EE/R1 before

I agree. The experience certainly feels more heroic zerg-like. This likely opens up the ability to use a whole host of abilities/spells that were previously epic resistent.

Thanks for sorting all that out for us and saving us time. Can I request you do it on a melee? Maybe at cap on some Legendary newish quests like Sharn, Saltmarsh or Fey?

Sure, no problem. Part of the reason I'm playing sorcerer right now is that I heard on the forums how unplayable and nerfed into the ground it was (it wasn't). I have a Paladin I can test things out on in the near future if melee thinks they've been short-changed. You'll note in my OP I've differentiated from Epic and Legendary quests so Sharn/Saltmarsh/Fey aren't applicable to this discussion. In the current meta, those quests are played on R6+ already.

[NightHiker]

Yep.

I've been soloing R4s more easily than I used to solo r1s, and on a Spellsinger, which is pretty far from "meta". Just went thru an ER last night and breezed thru epics so far. Bosses, which used to give me trouble even over level on more than r1, have been much easier to handle. I may just be lucky, but so far my experience with u51 is mostly positive.

Cheers,
NH

[Oliphant]

To some extent always RX = RY given the lfm or team effects of self selection by the players.

I can't live test due to being Greater Beam: Frozen indefinitely. How is ranged doing for solo?

[Oliphant]

Part of the reason I'm playing sorcerer right now is that I heard on the forums how unplayable and nerfed into the ground it was (it wasn't).

I took up Sorc early part of 2021 for exactly the same reason. Heard they nerfed Sorc to unplayability and I was like hell no. I still found Sorc about the most fun all around class but I went with DC necro, illusion, enchant and some melee/debuff back up for traffic jams. Eventually I got gear maxed enough to squeeze in Fatesinger with DC build. I did not get a chance to mess with it after the stat squish but suspect its fine. I will say, if you are pushing diff, damage (nuker) Sorc was unreasonably hard to gear, extremely finnicky tetris. DC sorc was not trivial to figure out but there are some solutions that don't require large raid crafting sets. A bunch of configurations almost work (but not quite for pushing diffs) but have a ton of interesting flavor. Get the sense will be more fun to mess with Sorc with the expanded gear options from U50 and build options with U51.

Most skeptical about ranged toons with new EDs but no chance to test live toon.

[slarden]

I took up Sorc early part of 2021 for exactly the same reason. Heard they nerfed Sorc to unplayability and I was like hell no. I still found Sorc about the most fun all around class but I went with DC necro, illusion, enchant and some melee/debuff back up for traffic jams. Eventually I got gear maxed enough to squeeze in Fatesinger with DC build. I did not get a chance to mess with it after the stat squish but suspect its fine. I will say, if you are pushing diff, damage (nuker) Sorc was unreasonably hard to gear, extremely finnicky tetris. DC sorc was not trivial to figure out but there are some solutions that don't require large raid crafting sets. A bunch of configurations almost work (but not quite for pushing diffs) but have a ton of interesting flavor. Get the sense will be more fun to mess with Sorc with the expanded gear options from U50 and build options with U51.

Most skeptical about ranged toons with new EDs but no chance to test live toon.

Yep.

I've been soloing R4s more easily than I used to solo r1s, and on a Spellsinger, which is pretty far from "meta". Just went thru an ER last night and breezed thru epics so far. Bosses, which used to give me trouble even over level on more than r1, have been much easier to handle. I may just be lucky, but so far my experience with u51 is mostly positive.

Cheers,
NH

Sorcs are the biggest winners among casters but arcane warrior builds like swashbuckling spellsinger got a major boost as well. Caster bards/artificers also got a big boost, but I think martial bards/artificers that also focus on spell DC are better.

Ranged builds should feel better with the shiradi procs. The epic moment is bonkers and you do more damage between big attack sequences with shiradi.

Due to the last minute proc change in draconic (thanks Lynnabel) warlocks are doing alot better as well.

Most casters can go draconic with tier 3 EA and a splash to PA for cocoon and be fully self-healing on R4.

My biggest issue with U51 is that it was rushed and unbalanced - some builds are severely op and others lost key utility abilities while gaining only a little dps in exchange. The future nerfs are going to be painful and if history repeats itself over-tuned in some cases. I hope the devs focus more on class balance when they start the U51 nerf cycle.

[Kelledren]

Similar experience with my pale master- was Level 29- tested Wake me up, Castle RL, and Perils. Duo played with buddy but we split up to get different feels. R2-R4 felt like EE or less. Draconics bursts is very strong. Wore Shiradi mantle and dipped into Magus. No t5s.

[DaviMOC]

Same. My 20-23 party was doing r4 legs with easy. The old reaper dailies + Gatekeepers chain all went super easy and also very fast.

Guess they tunned down mobs a bit too much. Recovery for about 50% of its lost power may be needed for a proper test of the new tools and powers.
Still nuking spellcasting seems to have even more raw power now( not only sorcs but all others, my druid dmg gone crazy).

Feels like martial melees fell behind but may be a matter of builds adaptation.

[Kelledren]

Same. My 20-23 party was doing r4 legs with easy. The old reaper dailies + Gatekeepers chain all went super easy and also very fast.

Guess they tunned down mobs a bit too much. Recovery for about 50% of its lost power may be needed for a proper test of the new tools and powers.
Still nuking spellcasting seems to have even more raw power now( not only sorcs but all others, my druid dmg gone crazy).

Feels like martial melees fell behind but may be a matter of builds adaptation.

Yeah honestly felt like mob HP were half what they should be. I didn’t do before/after hp check- just felt that way. Will be running level 20 thf Pally later- see if I get the same result.

[Enderoc]

Same. My 20-23 party was doing r4 legs with easy. The old reaper dailies + Gatekeepers chain all went super easy and also very fast.

Guess they tunned down mobs a bit too much. Recovery for about 50% of its lost power may be needed for a proper test of the new tools and powers.
Still nuking spellcasting seems to have even more raw power now( not only sorcs but all others, my druid dmg gone crazy).

Feels like martial melees fell behind but may be a matter of builds adaptation.

My fort went from 192 to 319...
I got plenty of melee power (over a hundred) for TW which for a non Tempest (29 Cleric without a level 28-29 feat) is awesome
Got cool melee attacks and mantles
And not a single martial destiny
I think it will be okay for melee...

[jskinner937]

Thanks for sorting all that out for us and saving us time. Can I request you do it on a melee? Maybe at cap on some Legendary newish quests like Sharn, Saltmarsh or Fey? A live stream or video would be great so I can see what secret sauce you're cooking with to make R4 so trivial. I don't know. Maybe they did squish the mobs down like they said they were going to do. Good news for you, like you said. "Make reaper easier!" can be the forum rallying cry. Do it for the children.

Legendary quests are supposed to be similar. He is talking about epic quests and honestly he is 100% accurate from what I have experienced as well. R4-6 is about the same as R1 from what I have run thus far from 20 on. R1 is too crazy easy tbh.

[Maldorin]

Legendary quests are supposed to be similar. He is talking about epic quests and honestly he is 100% accurate from what I have experienced as well. R4-6 is about the same as R1 from what I have run thus far from 20 on. R1 is too crazy easy tbh.

My point was new content is always harder old content is always significantly easier. And he did it with a caster and proclaimed a conclusion for all builds and classes. He was over level. And well, my opinion of this particular individual is negative to the point if I were to post it I'd get banned.

[Oxarhamar]

Sorcs are the biggest winners among casters but arcane warrior builds like swashbuckling spellsinger got a major boost as well. Caster bards/artificers also got a big boost, but I think martial bards/artificers that also focus on spell DC are better.

Ranged builds should feel better with the shiradi procs. The epic moment is bonkers and you do more damage between big attack sequences with shiradi.

Due to the last minute proc change in draconic (thanks Lynnabel) warlocks are doing alot better as well.

Most casters can go draconic with tier 3 EA and a splash to PA for cocoon and be fully self-healing on R4.

My biggest issue with U51 is that it was rushed and unbalanced - some builds are severely op and others lost key utility abilities while gaining only a little dps in exchange. The future nerfs are going to be painful and if history repeats itself over-tuned in some cases. I hope the devs focus more on class balance when they start the U51 nerf cycle.

And yet you don't see the problem with Randed in Shiradi try Ranged outside of Shiradi

[Valerianus]

Before U51 went live there was some concern that players were going to be nerfed with the loss of twists and some feats. I was a vocal proponent of the fact that over the course of the game player power continually increases with every update and expansion. Well, after playing today, my statements have been validated as the game continues the cycle of increasing character power. In fact, mobs have been scaled back so much that Reaper 4 is going to be the new elite in epics.

I first started in Gianthold on R1, an area with meaty mobs, to test the changes. Keep in mind I'm not remotely optimized and using a lot of L15 gear on my sorcerer at L28. The quests felt like normal. Forget about meteor swarm, good old SLA fireball was smoking mobs. Lots of people were on checking out U51 so the group quickly filled and I pushed up the difficulty. A FVS and I were crushing Delera's on R4. DPS casting has tremendous power with the reduction in mob HPs.

It feels that SSG did not balance the game around people with full reaper or epic trees as some feared. This seems balanced around a first-life character just starting epics. I'm not going to say the monster cuts went too far, I've played a day with the changes. But I will say that I can quickly see R4 becoming the new black. I'll be running all my epics on R4 as the baseline. In the next day or two, I'll test out what Legendary quests look like on high reaper. If they've retained their difficulty and the lower epics have been significantly been made easier then SSG will indeed have created a stratification in questing where we will feel the difference between normal and legendary epics. That's solid game design.

Any concerns about it being tougher to epic TR have been put to bed. Character's are stronger and more dynamic in epic questing than ever before.

dude it's too early for such glorious declarations, atm nothing is final, ED pass is in its first day of beta testing. probably the new mob epic scaling is bugged like a ton of other things.

i mean, let's just wait and see. it needs time. and patches, and changes...

[Chai]

SLA fireballs are killing mobs in R1 Gianthold. Everything is fine.
Film at 11.