Valtrick's Thoughts - 2 year player, first time poster

[Valtrick]

I am here to beg and plead.

I started playing about two years ago, a couple months before COVID. Like many of you, I played PnP...a long time ago. But the D&D brand still means something to me and when I started playing this game I was LOVING it. COVID came and this was a such a perfect place to pass time.

Great game. The lag stinks, more on that in a bit, but what really won me over was the character planning and building. Truly a million ways to play. Work out some math on a spreadsheet, pick a direction and then grind to become better. Become good enough to hang with those who have played for a decade! Become good enough to help newer players! Find new ways to eek out additional power. You couldn't handle this quest on EH before and now you can solo R1! Watch your damage numbers go up! So much fun. The graphics are fine. The complexity is excellent. I have spent hundreds of dollars and DDO and was planning on spending hundreds more.

First time I remember a nerf, it was to Confront any Foe, maybe a year ago, a year into me playing. It was deflating. Apparently there was some exploit in the barb tree? So why not just figure out what the exploit was and fix it? Maybe disallow CaF for those in that tree? Had to be another way. Didn't they test it before they added it to the game?

My point is this: improvements are good. additions are good. Changes are bad! We have planned! Changes = pulling the rug out from under us. Making us feel like tomorrow is uncertain.... what will be changed next?

Obviously, I got over the CaF nerf. And it was good for a while. Then the stat squish. That stat squish is why I haven't purchased Saltmarsh and why I haven't spent any money since.

But U51 would take the cake. In a bad way. All that planning my destinies... it's depressing. The complaints on here are many. The support is sparse. LFMs are hard to fill now (I'm on Arrgo).

How can making players unhappy be prioritized over fixing lag? HOW?!? I'm in a KT raid right now. Asked these random people their opinion. Overwhelming distaste for U51. No support.

PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS. CANCEL U51. PLEASE. YOU WILL KILL YOUR PRODUCT OTHERWISE. LYNNABEL PLEASE RESPOND AND TELL US THAT YOU'VE COME TO YOUR SENSES AND WILL STOP NERFING AND WILL START ADDRESSING LAG. PLEASE. THE FATE OF THIS GAME DEPENDS ON IT.

[Marshal_Lannes]

They are not going to cancel U51. That's an unrealistic request. If there is something specific about U51 that you dislike you should post that (while offering suggestions on an alternative) in the appropriate Lam discussion section.

[Valtrick]

They are not going to cancel U51. That's an unrealistic request. If there is something specific about U51 that you dislike you should post that (while offering suggestions on an alternative) in the appropriate Lam discussion section.

It's not unrealistic that they'd read the room and make a smart business decision. Overwhelmingly unpopular. Games are supposed to be....fun.

The time misspent is a sunk cost. Don't send good after bad.

[Elfishski]

...what really won me over was the character planning and building. Truly a million ways to play. Work out some math on a spreadsheet, pick a direction and then grind to become better.

...My point is this: improvements are good. additions are good. Changes are bad! We have planned! Changes = pulling the rug out from under us. Making us feel like tomorrow is uncertain.... what will be changed next?

Not all change is bad, and some nerfs are necessary because when certain abilities are too bugged or too good that nobody can pick anything else, those million ways to play become 1 or 2 ways to play. Trivial example if the dev character ability that just kills all monsters including bosses nearby with no save was added to a single enhancement tree that would be the only option, the game would be ultra boring, and everyone would agree it should be nerfed. Where to draw the line on what's 'too good' is definitely open for debate as having some standout abilities that make you feel heroic is nice too.

By all means have very legitimate concerns or complaints about what's specifically changing and whether it will make the gameplay less fun or reduce the options for character planning. But if what you love is the character building then you can equally look at major changes as an opportunity to open up a whole new variety of builds that you can TR into in the future. Any of your past lives will still be useful. All the gear you may have found was always going to be superseded by a new update. Thinking of any MMO as having a final 'endpoint' to plan towards is always going to be a disappointment.

[Valtrick]

Not all change is bad, and some nerfs are necessary because when certain abilities are too bugged or too good that nobody can pick anything else, those million ways to play become 1 or 2 ways to play. Trivial example if the dev character ability that just kills all monsters including bosses nearby with no save was added to a single enhancement tree that would be the only option, the game would be ultra boring, and everyone would agree it should be nerfed. Where to draw the line on what's 'too good' is definitely open for debate as having some standout abilities that make you feel heroic is nice too.

By all means have very legitimate concerns or complaints about what's specifically changing and whether it will make the gameplay less fun or reduce the options for character planning. But if what you love is the character building then you can equally look at major changes as an opportunity to open up a whole new variety of builds that you can TR into in the future. Any of your past lives will still be useful. All the gear you may have found was always going to be superseded by a new update. Thinking of any MMO as having a final 'endpoint' to plan towards is always going to be a disappointment.

I don't mind tweaks. Huge changes, I do. They need to have foresight and not make something available which is OP. If they make a mistake and a tweak is needed: understandable. If they make mistake after mistake and have to upend basic functionality?: not understandable. big problem.

I don't mind new gear for me to chase. And I'm not looking for a final endpoint. I'm looking for the rug not to be pulled from under me after all the planning and grinding.

I'm also looking for them to listen to their customers and address what almost everyone hates, lag, and not address what many, many people want them to leave alone!

[Axeyu]

All that planning my destinies..

What planning?

[Valtrick]

What planning?

Planning which one to use. Running numbers. Planning which twists I'd take. What it would take to add fate points to improve x twist to y. Deciding which items to take within the destiny I chose. Considering how those decisions would interact with my specs outside of EDs. etc.

[Axeyu]

Planning which one to use. Running numbers. Planning which twists I'd take. What it would take to add fate points to improve x twist to y. Deciding which items to take within the destiny I chose. Considering how those decisions would interact with my specs outside of EDs. etc.

Those things are ramped up to 11 in U51, so I don't see the problem. Or do you mean that planning is bad and you dont want to have to do more of it?

[Axeyu]

I started playing about two years ago... Changes are bad!

DDO has been in a state of constant change for 15 years. You are standing on ground paved with change proclaming change as bad.

[kmoustakas]

I am here to beg and plead.

I started playing about two years ago, a couple months before COVID. Like many of you, I played PnP...a long time ago. But the D&D brand still means something to me and when I started playing this game I was LOVING it. COVID came and this was a such a perfect place to pass time.

Great game. The lag stinks, more on that in a bit, but what really won me over was the character planning and building. Truly a million ways to play. Work out some math on a spreadsheet, pick a direction and then grind to become better. Become good enough to hang with those who have played for a decade! Become good enough to help newer players! Find new ways to eek out additional power. You couldn't handle this quest on EH before and now you can solo R1! Watch your damage numbers go up! So much fun. The graphics are fine. The complexity is excellent. I have spent hundreds of dollars and DDO and was planning on spending hundreds more.

First time I remember a nerf, it was to Confront any Foe, maybe a year ago, a year into me playing. It was deflating. Apparently there was some exploit in the barb tree? So why not just figure out what the exploit was and fix it? Maybe disallow CaF for those in that tree? Had to be another way. Didn't they test it before they added it to the game?

My point is this: improvements are good. additions are good. Changes are bad! We have planned! Changes = pulling the rug out from under us. Making us feel like tomorrow is uncertain.... what will be changed next?

Obviously, I got over the CaF nerf. And it was good for a while. Then the stat squish. That stat squish is why I haven't purchased Saltmarsh and why I haven't spent any money since.

But U51 would take the cake. In a bad way. All that planning my destinies... it's depressing. The complaints on here are many. The support is sparse. LFMs are hard to fill now (I'm on Arrgo).

How can making players unhappy be prioritized over fixing lag? HOW?!? I'm in a KT raid right now. Asked these random people their opinion. Overwhelming distaste for U51. No support.

PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS. CANCEL U51. PLEASE. YOU WILL KILL YOUR PRODUCT OTHERWISE. LYNNABEL PLEASE RESPOND AND TELL US THAT YOU'VE COME TO YOUR SENSES AND WILL STOP NERFING AND WILL START ADDRESSING LAG. PLEASE. THE FATE OF THIS GAME DEPENDS ON IT.

You cover two very important aspects, one of the community and one of the developer side. Warning small rant incoming!

The community on the forums* is incredibly toxic, filled with cry babies who don't realise this is a cooperative game. Instead of working together they try to cancel anything effective so they don't stand out for being bad. I can't help but wonder if this is a fault of the culture at large: there is a small but vocal percentage of the population who shout a lot and make a fuss to hide their own issues. The participation trophy generation - which in fairness DDO and dungeons and dragons IS a participation trophy culture because it's a COOPERATIVE game. For every Aragorn there's a Frodo, for every Legolas a Sam. Aragorn's the role player, Legolas is the powergamer, Frodo is the self-centered douchy friend of the DM and Sam has to carry them all.

The second side is the developers who instead of fixing every day problems, dream of imaginary new systems that will bring floods of new (imaginary) players in a nearly 20 year old game. You can't fix ghost LFMs and you expect us to believe you can redesign the wheel? Good luck with that. This takes us back to the first issue: the game is old, the mechanics lost to the newer developers resulting in people playing the game very differently than the developers imagine. Going all the way back to the "exploiter" ranger 18/monk 1/fighter 1 to adrenaline with bow to whatsthelastesteffectivebuild. I can't help but wonder if this is a fault of the industry at large: making a new system looks awesome on a CV, fixing old bugs not so. With promotions basically coming in the form of switching companies nowadays being good at your job is a lot less important than appearing to be doing something important.

Is the game full of exploits and badly designed systems? Yes. Are there better ways to do them? Of course. Is that what's important to the players or what's important to the developers?

*forums, not necessarily in the game. In the game it's a lot easier to hang out with your buddies.

[droid327]

The first CaF nerf was justified, adding a short CD so you couldn't just use it as a burst dps hose. The second one, making it into such a weak cleave that no one would ever take it even if they're in the destiny...that one I can't figure out still. It was a good skill that required a pretty specific build to really take advantage of, I don't think it was broken or op, and it gave some real viability to swf builds that otherwise struggle with packs.

I don't think U51 is a complete disaster like some are saying...overall I think it's net positive, and for vets with lots of epls already it shouldn't even have much of a downside anyway.

However, I do think they need to reconsider raising the level cap, which is what U51 is setting the groundwork for

[Tsutti]

what really won me over was the character planning and building. Truly a million ways to play. Become good enough to hang with those who have played for a decade!

First time I remember a nerf, it was to Confront any Foe, maybe a year ago, a year into me playing. It was deflating. Apparently there was some exploit in the barb tree? So why not just figure out what the exploit was and fix it? Maybe disallow CaF for those in that tree? Had to be another way. Didn't they test it before they added it to the game?

My point is this: improvements are good. additions are good. Changes are bad! We have planned! Changes = pulling the rug out from under us. Making us feel like tomorrow is uncertain.... what will be changed next?

Then the stat squish. That stat squish is why I haven't purchased Saltmarsh and why I haven't spent any money since.

But U51 would take the cake. In a bad way. All that planning my destinies... it's depressing. The complaints on here are many. The support is sparse. LFMs are hard to fill now (I'm on Arrgo).

The U51 destiny changes add significant variety to your destiny options, which adds more ways to play, and you say the character planning is what got you fully invested into DDO. The planning is what so many other players love about this game too. This change creates a plethora of new planning options, which for future builds or improvements to builds is really great; I'm with you on feeling a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of replanning I need to do for current builds, I too have yet to purchase Saltmarsh somewhat because of the gear changes in U50. It's partly the fact that it's not as necessary, but for me it's mainly that I simply do not feel ready yet to fix my gearsets to accommodate U50's improved options because there are many times more options now and previously, I had ideas about what gear I might want to use for which thing and just double checked that there were no hidden gems for a particular build but now there is so much gear I'm unfamiliar with and it will take a while for me to make friends with it.

However, after the shock of being hit with such a big change, I do like the idea of how much more diversity I have available, even if I don't yet want to face it and don't yet like the specific diversity. Something worth bearing in mind if you truly hate these changes is that (as I understand it) one of the key driving factors behind U50 and U51 being implemented so abruptly, instead of over time with various updates, is that they're somewhat necessary to allow the devs to increase the level cap in a constructive way for the game and in a way that won't kill the game, as the overwhelming majority of players on the forums made clear that they would leave and not turn back when a level cap past 30 was initially proposed. Instead of adding/changing things as necessary, the devs have decided to systematically run one core game mechanic through the wringer each update, perhaps to shift the precedent from what players complain about as "dragging their feet" to a new precedent of swiftly and decisively attempting to fix issues.

From what I can see so far, U50 single handedly fixed nearly all the problematic power creep because as people have oft mentioned, gear has, in the past, determined maybe 80% or more of a character's power and the jump in power from 25-29 due to the absurd level of power creep in those levels of gear (just leveling 28-29 for those without piles of old level 26 raid gear like DoJ and LGS and level 28 things like Slaver's sets) was absolutely staggering, literally 30+ DC increase for spellcasters lacking that older gear when they took level 29.

As of U50, a well built and well geared DC caster can successfully and reliably hit DCs (with full boosts on anyway, dunno how reliable without boosts and boosts do have a much longer cooldown than the time it takes to get to next group of enemies) in legendary R10 content, and while that seems stupid they're still significantly behind level 30 characters on power in many ways but can still contribute something to a group running this stuff. Granted, this is more applicable to private groups generally because of both the uncertainty that a level 22 wizard hitting the LFM for R10 Gatekeepers or whatever will actually have the DCs and the fact that you do need the rest of the party to make up for what they lack for not being level 30, so things like spellpower (applicable if, say, the wizard with Renewal twisted is the party healer) or tankiness (lack of prr, mrr, and hp so you REALLY need to make sure the party composition won't actually let anything get near that level 22 more than you even want to for a level 30 wiz, besides ppl often build wizards tankyish nowadays so at cap it might not even matter a ton if the wiz is strong enough to DC this stuff fine at level 22).

It does seem a bit silly for a character nearly 10 levels down on both the rest of the party and the content should be able to do a little something besides some healing, level 20s and 30s can play together without penalty for either unlike even just a level 15 and level 19 so maybe there's an argument for the level 20 be useful for a tad more than nothing; but anyway, I suspect U51 will also change this because of both the level gating on them and the removal of Magister.




That was a bit longer than I meant, but a quick input on the Confront any Foe changes: I didn't hear anything about an exploit with a barbarian tree, but I do know that the ability erroneously had no cooldown instead of the 2 second cooldown it was supposed to have and that was the thing people were abusing AFAIK. As long as your charges for it lasted, I think that spamming it might have been the best dps in the game by a fairly sizable margin and while that isn't useful against a raid boss for lack of sustainability, it sure murdered quests. When a single ability can turn a build that does questionable damage on elite to a build that vaporizes trash on R4, that ability probably has good reason to be nerfed (yes speaking about one of my own builds :P it was a weird build, I didn't even know what I wanted to do with it so uh... the build was kind of all over the place, for being pure class; didn't have many charges on CaF and wasn't sure how to manage them so didn't end up running it but I did give it a try)

EDIT: forgot they also changed CaF to not hit 3 times that's what really murdered it I think, but the combination of hitting 3 times rapidly + no cooldown on it + it's AOE with unlimited targets as long as they're in the AOE + throw in a little bonus light damage that scales with melee power cuz why not = NOTHING TO SEE HERE, PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL AND TOTALLY NOT OVERPOWERED ABILITY *cough*

[Dnarth]

I don't agree. Epic destinies have always been subpar. Then got some what better with the revamps. Now with a complete over haul I am somewhat excited to maybe play epic/legendary again. Doing away with karma, great idea. ymmv I got all my epls done awhile ago. So I will have all but one point to work with. I think having more options for build diversity is good for the game instead of the stale state it was in when entering epics.

[Firebreed]

Both the stat squish and ED revamp are very welcome (assuming one turns a blind eye to the fact that the sole reason they were done was to make way for a level cap increase, which is most certainly not welcome).

[donblas]

My point is this: improvements are good. additions are good. Changes are bad! We have planned! Changes = pulling the rug out from under us.

Obviously, I got over the CaF nerf. And it was good for a while. Then the stat squish. That stat squish is why I haven't purchased Saltmarsh and why I haven't spent any money since.

But U51 would take the cake. In a bad way. All that planning my destinies... it's depressing. The complaints on here are many.

How can making players unhappy be prioritized over fixing lag? HOW?!? I'm in a KT raid right now. Asked these random people their opinion. Overwhelming distaste for U51. No support.

PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS. CANCEL U51. PLEASE. YOU WILL KILL YOUR PRODUCT OTHERWISE. LYNNABEL PLEASE RESPOND AND TELL US THAT YOU'VE COME TO YOUR SENSES AND WILL STOP NERFING AND WILL START ADDRESSING LAG. PLEASE. THE FATE OF THIS GAME DEPENDS ON IT.

Improvements and additions ARE changes! Not all changes are bad. Not even most of them.

And if all the claimed nerfs that DDO has implemented in the 12 years I've been playing were real, then well-built toons would be dying on casual - but the game has got far, far easier in that time - so the net effect of DDO's changes have been the opposite of nerfs, haven't they?

Planning destinies in U51 looks far easier than planning twists and using off-densities now. Unless of course twists don't need to be planned because only a few are viable/overpowered, in which case change is needed.

I for one support our new U51 overlords and look forward to a simple, intuitive destiny system.

[Arctigis]

... Didn't they test it before they added it to the game?...

Wow, you really are new ;-)

That stat squish is why I haven't purchased Saltmarsh and why I haven't spent any money since.

Yeah, exactly the same here. And I'd spent over $1500 before U50 this year alone. The devs seem hell bent on
making everything generic - with 'loot curves' (except when it's not i.e. MotU, GH etc.), builders, spenders and so
on.

[Arctigis]

Improvements and additions ARE changes! Not all changes are bad. Not even most of them.

And if all the claimed nerfs that DDO has implemented in the 12 years I've been playing were real, then well-built toons would be dying on casual - but the game has got far, far easier in that time - so the net effect of DDO's changes have been the opposite of nerfs, haven't they?

Planning destinies in U51 looks far easier than planning twists and using off-densities now. Unless of course twists don't need to be planned because only a few are viable/overpowered, in which case change is needed.

I for one support our new U51 overlords and look forward to a simple, intuitive destiny system.

I wish they'd fixed the Karma and off destiny elements of the existing system. The new system does
not have the flexibility of twists and being able to quickly switch destinies and twists when a different focus
is required. At least it didn't in preview 1 - it just cost a SL of plat, like Reaper tree respecs.

[thwart]

DDO has been in a state of constant change for 15 years. You are standing on ground paved with change proclaming change as bad.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Change is not the boogie man. I support U51.

[bryanmeerkat]

Wow, you really are new ;-)



Yeah, exactly the same here. And I'd spent over $1500 before U50 this year alone. The devs seem hell bent on
making everything generic - with 'loot curves' (except when it's not i.e. MotU, GH etc.), builders, spenders and so
on.

Do you mean generic or balanced .
Not quite sure why everyone is so desperate to have only 2 viable loot set.

I bet all the people moaning about the loot squish would have been fine if they had just boosted the numbers on everything else to balance the gear rather than dropping it .

People are bizarre .

Oh no my axe only does 10000 damage which used to be enough to kill the mob with 10000 hit points in a single hit .

Now it only does 8000 and kills the same mob that now has only 8000 hitpoints in one hit .

I am nerfed . Screw you all ......

[LightBear]

The destinies are in dire need of a massive revamp as most players have seeked out their optimum route.
And it kinda is leading down the same path for a majority of builds.
(Funny enough it are the changes that have been made in the past to those skipped trees that have led to a narrowing of the choices made by players, simply because the changes in those trees made them obsolete.)

So I do understand some frustration about having to "start from scratch".
Esp as we have come to grown accustomed to these builds.

But as pointed out by others, you'll either learn how to cope with these changes and might even grow avond of them.
Or you truly are fed up with this and take your leisure time elsewhere.
(This is safety talk, I know you will fall in love with the new system as much as the old system. I mean it's all over your first post. )